Re: brittenPhrygolydian

2017-01-19 Thread Simon Albrecht 

On 18.01.2017 23:51, Thomas Morley wrote:

Non-default scales are always user defined. How could we predict them?
P.e. some FLAT/SHARP-combinations will collide others not...


Which is why any automatic approach will have to involve horizontal 
skylines, as David N. already said.

Best, Simon

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Re: brittenPhrygolydian

2017-01-18 Thread Noeck 
Hi Harm,

Am 18.01.2017 um 23:51 schrieb Thomas Morley:
> The default of zero is perfectly fine for all predefined scales, imho.

You are right. I ran your example and withdraw my simple approach.

Joram

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Re: brittenPhrygolydian

2017-01-18 Thread Thomas Morley 
2017-01-18 23:00 GMT+01:00 Noeck :
> Wouldn't it be an improvement if there was a default padding larger than
> 0? Of course, the best option would be some type of kerning which works
> between all possible combinations. But something like 0.2 staff spaces
> between all accidentals would probably look better than no space at all.
> I don't know if that's possible.
>
> — Joram



I disagree.
The default of zero is perfectly fine for all predefined scales, imho.

A default of even 0.2 would look not tight enough:

sz = 0.2
keyPadding = {
  \override Staff.KeySignature.padding = \sz
  \override Staff.KeyCancellation.padding = \sz
}
mus = { \key cis \major cis''1 \key ces \major ces'' }

{ \keyPadding \mus }
\mus

Furthermore, collisions only happen for non-default scales, which then
could be adjusted via 'padding or 'padding-pairs for the KeySignature.
Both are unset per default, which is the right thing.

Non-default scales are always user defined. How could we predict them?
P.e. some FLAT/SHARP-combinations will collide others not...

So the user has to take care of it.
Our responsibility should aim at explaining how to do it in an
understandable manner.

Admittedly the doc-string for 'padding-pairs doesn't seem to fullfill that...

Cheers,
  Harm

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Re: brittenPhrygolydian

2017-01-18 Thread Hans Åberg 

> On 17 Jan 2017, at 22:42, Simon Albrecht  wrote:

> The question came up about a curious key signature used by Britten, which 
> indicates only Ab and C#, ...

Mode names are listed at [1]. Compute the differences in E12:
 G Ab B C# D E F G
  1 3 2 1 2 1 2
and make search:
1 3 2 1 2 1 2  Mela Ramapriya, Raga Ramamanohari, Romanian Major, Petrushka 
chord

1. http://www.huygens-fokker.org/docs/modename.html



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Re: brittenPhrygolydian

2017-01-18 Thread Noeck 
Wouldn't it be an improvement if there was a default padding larger than
0? Of course, the best option would be some type of kerning which works
between all possible combinations. But something like 0.2 staff spaces
between all accidentals would probably look better than no space at all.
I don't know if that's possible.

— Joram

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Re: brittenPhrygolydian

2017-01-18 Thread David Nalesnik 
On Wed, Jan 18, 2017 at 10:17 AM, David Nalesnik
 wrote:
> On Wed, Jan 18, 2017 at 10:00 AM, Kieren MacMillan
>  wrote:
>
>>
>> I understand that there are a huge number of possible key signatures, but 
>> can’t the collision in the first example (does it bother anyone else?) be 
>> "pre-fixed" somehow?
>>
>
> There could be a more sophisticated grading of KeySignature.padding in
> lily/key-signature-interface.cc, perhaps based on glyph extent.
>

Scrap the glyph-extent suggestion.

You'd probably need to adjust padding based on certain juxtapositions.
Maybe there's something possible with horizontal skylines, but I
wouldn't know.

DN

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Re: brittenPhrygolydian

2017-01-18 Thread David Nalesnik 
On Wed, Jan 18, 2017 at 10:00 AM, Kieren MacMillan
 wrote:

>
> I understand that there are a huge number of possible key signatures, but 
> can’t the collision in the first example (does it bother anyone else?) be 
> "pre-fixed" somehow?
>

There could be a more sophisticated grading of KeySignature.padding in
lily/key-signature-interface.cc, perhaps based on glyph extent.

David

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Re: brittenPhrygolydian

2017-01-18 Thread Kieren MacMillan 
Hi David,

> There is no default setting.  Padding controls the overall spacing
> (with extra space allotted to naturals); you use padding-pairs to
> affect certain collocations.

Yes. I just think that there should be a better default than the one that was 
made apparent by Simon’s post yesterday, e.g.

%%%  SNIPPET BEGINS
\version "2.19.54"

brittenPhrygolydian = #`((0 . ,NATURAL) (1 . ,FLAT) (2 . ,NATURAL)
   (3 . ,SHARP) (4 . ,NATURAL) (5 . ,NATURAL) (6 . ,FLAT))

\relative {
 \key g \brittenPhrygolydian
 g'4 as b cis
 d e f g
}

\relative {
 \tweak padding-pairs #'((("accidentals.flat" . "accidentals.sharp") . 0.25))
 \key g \brittenPhrygolydian
 g'4 as b cis
 d e f g
}%
%%  SNIPPET ENDS

I understand that there are a huge number of possible key signatures, but can’t 
the collision in the first example (does it bother anyone else?) be "pre-fixed" 
somehow?

Thanks,
Kieren.


Kieren MacMillan, composer
‣ website: www.kierenmacmillan.info
‣ email: i...@kierenmacmillan.info


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Re: brittenPhrygolydian

2017-01-18 Thread tisimst 
Hey, Kieren!

On Wed, Jan 18, 2017 at 7:33 AM, Kieren MacMillan-2 [via Lilypond] <
ml-node+s1069038n199307...@n5.nabble.com> wrote:

> Hi Simon (et al.),
>
> >> And LilyPond just has a fabulous, simple, and proper solution:
> >
> > Which is, by the way, also very well documented.
>
> But, apparently not well defaulted.  ;)
>
> Where does one find the KeySignature.padding-pairs defaults? I did a file
> search inside the Contents folder of my Lilypond application (Mac OS X) for
> an explicit setting, but couldn’t find it. I thought it would be in
> define-grobs, but wasn’t there.
>

>From what I can gather, the default is to gracefully fail (i.e., fall back
to 'padding, but add a little extra space for naturals) when the user
hasn't provided anything. Implementation details are found in
lily/key-signature-interface.cc.

HTH,
Abraham




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Re: brittenPhrygolydian

2017-01-18 Thread Kieren MacMillan 
Hi Simon (et al.),

>> And LilyPond just has a fabulous, simple, and proper solution:
> 
> Which is, by the way, also very well documented.

But, apparently not well defaulted.  ;)

Where does one find the KeySignature.padding-pairs defaults? I did a file 
search inside the Contents folder of my Lilypond application (Mac OS X) for an 
explicit setting, but couldn’t find it. I thought it would be in define-grobs, 
but wasn’t there.

Thanks,
Kieren.


Kieren MacMillan, composer
‣ website: www.kierenmacmillan.info
‣ email: i...@kierenmacmillan.info


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Re: brittenPhrygolydian

2017-01-17 Thread Simon Albrecht 

On 17.01.2017 22:42, Simon Albrecht wrote:

Hello everybody,

this is a big thank you and a shout of joy over having LilyPond!

The question came up about a curious key signature used by Britten, 
which indicates only Ab and C#, and how to replicate this in Sibelius. 
Which involves a fake clef, lots of manual work, and hidden 
accidentals for correct playback.


And LilyPond just has a fabulous, simple, and proper solution:


Which is, by the way, also very well documented.



%
\version "2.19.53"
brittenPhrygolydian = #`((0 . ,NATURAL) (1 . ,FLAT) (2 . ,NATURAL)
(3 . ,SHARP) (4 . ,NATURAL) (5 . ,NATURAL) (6 . ,FLAT))

\relative {
  \key g \brittenPhrygolydian
  g'4 as b cis
  d e f g
}
%

Yeah!

Best, Simon



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