Re: [linux-audio-dev] Re: linux-audio-dev Digest, Vol 11, Issue 35

2004-08-21 Thread John Check
On Friday 20 August 2004 11:36 pm, John Lazzaro wrote: On Aug 20, 2004, at 6:43 PM, Paul David wrote: there may be people who are sight-impaired who manage to make a living as an audio engineer, but i would guess that i could count them all on the fingers of one hand. Sound on Sound (or

[linux-audio-dev] mouse wheel behavior and RFC: human interface guidelines

2004-08-21 Thread Lee Revell
I just installed jack-rack and find the mouse wheel behavior a bit odd. The sliders are horizontal, and turning the wheel 'up' (away from you) decreases the slider value, and vice versa. This seems backwards to me. What does everyone else think? This is one of those things that will *have* to

Re: [linux-audio-dev] Read this after your first cup of coffee

2004-08-21 Thread Kai Vehmanen
On Fri, 20 Aug 2004, John Check wrote: I specifically said Cecilia because it's a GUI. IIRC correctly, the ecasound originator coded it up because he found the interface to GUI systems to be dense, which doesn't give me confidence he'd have been able to find his way around an analog

[linux-audio-dev] Re: [off-list] Read this after your first cup of coffee

2004-08-21 Thread Ric8ard Munn
On 21 Aug 2004, at 11:24, Simon Jenkins wrote: erm... actually they can: http://www.digidesign.com/users/user_story.cfm?story_id=1020 well spotted that man. r

Re: [linux-audio-dev] mouse wheel behavior and RFC: human interface guidelines

2004-08-21 Thread Pete Bessman
I never noticed the behavior of horizontal scrollbars in GTK because I've never encountered any. Just checked out the behavior of Rhthymbox's seek indicator, it's just as you described (i.e., dain bramaged). That's a bug, plain and simple. --Pete http://www.gazuga.net Nothing great was ever

Re: [linux-audio-dev] Re: [off-list] Read this after your first cup of coffee

2004-08-21 Thread Paul Davis
erm... actually they can: http://www.digidesign.com/users/user_story.cfm?story_id=1020 well spotted that man. well, yes and no. ... Boggs believes that a device such as a J. L. Cooper MCS3800 is a must for a blind producer. mr boggs doesn't use any aspect of the protools GUI to run

Re: [linux-audio-dev] Re: [off-list] Read this after your first cup of coffee

2004-08-21 Thread Luke Yelavich
On Sat, Aug 21, 2004 at 10:10:47PM EST, Paul Davis wrote: erm... actually they can: http://www.digidesign.com/users/user_story.cfm?story_id=1020 well spotted that man. well, yes and no. mr boggs doesn't use any aspect of the protools GUI to run protools. he uses outSPOKEN, a speech

Re: [linux-audio-dev] Read this after your first cup of coffee

2004-08-21 Thread Taybin Rutkin
On Fri, 2004-08-20 at 15:06, Julien Claassen wrote: Hello John! I'm writing, because I think, that with one of your points you are wrong. You said, that ecasound and cecilia (and perhaps you also meant fluidsynth, csound...) aren't really interesting to pros. They are SO DAMN Important to

[linux-audio-dev] Re: [linux-audio-user] mouse wheel behavior and RFC: human interface guidelines

2004-08-21 Thread Steve Harris
On Sat, Aug 21, 2004 at 01:30:59 -0400, Lee Revell wrote: I just installed jack-rack and find the mouse wheel behavior a bit odd. The sliders are horizontal, and turning the wheel 'up' (away from you) decreases the slider value, and vice versa. This seems backwards to me. What does

Re: [linux-audio-dev] Re: [off-list] Read this after your first cup of coffee

2004-08-21 Thread Paul Davis
Sorry to be pedantic here Paul, but Outspoken is in fact a screen reader. Ther e is a difference between a screen reader and speech recognition. oops, my mistake. i should have know better, given that ardour/ksi is *designed* from scratch to be used with a screen reader :) In terms of using GUI

Re: [linux-audio-dev] mouse wheel behavior and RFC: human interface guidelines

2004-08-21 Thread Dave Robillard
On Sat, 2004-08-21 at 01:30, Lee Revell wrote: I just installed jack-rack and find the mouse wheel behavior a bit odd. The sliders are horizontal, and turning the wheel 'up' (away from you) decreases the slider value, and vice versa. This seems backwards to me. What does everyone else

Re: [linux-audio-dev] mouse wheel behavior and RFC: human interface guidelines

2004-08-21 Thread Melanie
Hi, it's backwards in a numerical sense, in that the numbers increase with one slider type, but decrease with another, using the same command. However, UI designers don't think in numbers, but associations. Left is generally associated with up, right with down, as we read left to right, top to

Re: [linux-audio-dev] mouse wheel behavior and RFC: human interface guidelines

2004-08-21 Thread Frank Barknecht
Hallo, Melanie hat gesagt: // Melanie wrote: Left is generally associated with up, right with down, as we read left to right, top to bottom. Therefore, up MUST map to left, down MUST map to right, otherwise, non-mathematically minded people get uttely confused. Well, if I qualify as

Re: [linux-audio-dev] mouse wheel behavior and RFC: human interface guidelines

2004-08-21 Thread Florian Schmidt
On Sat, 21 Aug 2004 18:35:44 +0200 Melanie [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, it's backwards in a numerical sense, in that the numbers increase with one slider type, but decrease with another, using the same command. However, UI designers don't think in numbers, but associations. Left is

Re: [linux-audio-dev] mouse wheel behavior and RFC: human interface guidelines

2004-08-21 Thread Paul Davis
it's backwards in a numerical sense, in that the numbers increase with one slider type, but decrease with another, using the same command. However, UI designers don't think in numbers, but associations. Left is generally associated with up, right with down, as we read left to right, top to

Re: [linux-audio-dev] mouse wheel behavior and RFC: human interface guidelines

2004-08-21 Thread Pete Bessman
At Sat, 21 Aug 2004 18:35:44 +0200, Melanie wrote: Left is generally associated with up, right with down, as we read left to right, top to bottom. Therefore, up MUST map to left, down MUST map to right, otherwise, non-mathematically minded people get uttely confused. This is perhaps the

Re: [linux-audio-dev] mouse wheel behavior and RFC: human interface guidelines

2004-08-21 Thread Melanie
Hi, On 2004.08.21 20:05 Florian Schmidt wrote: Hmm, i cannot believe that users really expect the horizontal scrollbars to go right when wheeling down. That just doesn't feel natural at all. Well, it does feel perfectly natural to me... Has there been research done? I would like to see some

Re: [linux-audio-dev] mouse wheel behavior and RFC: human interface guidelines

2004-08-21 Thread martin rumori
On Sat, Aug 21, 2004 at 01:56:03PM -0400, Paul Davis wrote: also, when i think of road driving signs used to indicate significant uphill or downhill sections, my recollection is that in the US and in Europe they obey this right=up association if they actually show the slope. IIRC correctly,

Re: [linux-audio-dev] mouse wheel behavior and RFC: human interface guidelines

2004-08-21 Thread Thorsten Wilms
On Sat, Aug 21, 2004 at 06:35:44PM +0200, Melanie wrote: Hi, it's backwards in a numerical sense, in that the numbers increase with one slider type, but decrease with another, using the same command. However, UI designers don't think in numbers, but associations. Left is generally

Re: [linux-audio-dev] Read this after your first cup of coffee

2004-08-21 Thread John Check
On Saturday 21 August 2004 05:15 am, Kai Vehmanen wrote: On Fri, 20 Aug 2004, John Check wrote: I specifically said Cecilia because it's a GUI. IIRC correctly, the ecasound originator coded it up because he found the interface to GUI systems to be dense, which doesn't give me confidence

[linux-audio-dev] Re: [linux-audio-user] mouse wheel behavior and RFC: human interface guidelines

2004-08-21 Thread Lee Revell
On Sat, 2004-08-21 at 11:35, Steve Harris wrote: On Sat, Aug 21, 2004 at 01:30:59 -0400, Lee Revell wrote: I just installed jack-rack and find the mouse wheel behavior a bit odd. The sliders are horizontal, and turning the wheel 'up' (away from you) decreases the slider value, and vice

Re: [linux-audio-dev] Re: [off-list] Read this after your first cup of coffee

2004-08-21 Thread John Check
On Saturday 21 August 2004 08:27 am, Luke Yelavich wrote: On Sat, Aug 21, 2004 at 10:10:47PM EST, Paul Davis wrote: erm... actually they can: http://www.digidesign.com/users/user_story.cfm?story_id=1020 well spotted that man. well, yes and no. mr boggs doesn't use any aspect

Re: [linux-audio-dev] Re: [off-list] Read this after your first cup of coffee

2004-08-21 Thread John Check
On Saturday 21 August 2004 08:10 am, Paul Davis wrote: erm... actually they can: http://www.digidesign.com/users/user_story.cfm?story_id=1020 well spotted that man. well, yes and no. ... Boggs believes that a device such as a J. L. Cooper MCS3800 is a must for a blind producer.

Re: [linux-audio-dev] mouse wheel behavior and RFC: human interface guidelines

2004-08-21 Thread Lee Revell
On Sat, 2004-08-21 at 14:26, martin rumori wrote: On Sat, Aug 21, 2004 at 01:56:03PM -0400, Paul Davis wrote: also, when i think of road driving signs used to indicate significant uphill or downhill sections, my recollection is that in the US and in Europe they obey this right=up

Re: [linux-audio-dev] mouse wheel behavior and RFC: human interface guidelines

2004-08-21 Thread John Check
On Saturday 21 August 2004 02:05 pm, Florian Schmidt wrote: On Sat, 21 Aug 2004 18:35:44 +0200 Melanie [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, it's backwards in a numerical sense, in that the numbers increase with one slider type, but decrease with another, using the same command. However,

Re: [linux-audio-dev] mouse wheel behavior and RFC: human interface guidelines

2004-08-21 Thread John Check
On Saturday 21 August 2004 02:06 pm, Melanie wrote: Hi, On 2004.08.21 20:05 Florian Schmidt wrote: Hmm, i cannot believe that users really expect the horizontal scrollbars to go right when wheeling down. That just doesn't feel natural at all. Well, it does feel perfectly natural to me...

Re: [linux-audio-dev] mouse wheel behavior and RFC: human interface guidelines

2004-08-21 Thread Lee Revell
On Sat, 2004-08-21 at 14:38, Fons Adriaensen wrote: On Sat, Aug 21, 2004 at 06:35:44PM +0200, Melanie wrote: it's backwards in a numerical sense, in that the numbers increase with one slider type, but decrease with another, using the same command. However, UI designers don't think in

Re: [linux-audio-dev] mouse wheel behavior and RFC: human interface guidelines

2004-08-21 Thread Lee Revell
On Sat, 2004-08-21 at 16:14, John Check wrote: On Saturday 21 August 2004 02:10 pm, Pete Bessman wrote: I guarantee you that the last thing on 99.8% of users' minds when they're adjusting a horizontal volume slider is This is kind of like reading a book, which goes left to right and top

Re: [linux-audio-dev] mouse wheel behavior and RFC: human interface guidelines

2004-08-21 Thread John Check
On Saturday 21 August 2004 04:22 pm, Lee Revell wrote: On Sat, 2004-08-21 at 14:38, Fons Adriaensen wrote: On Sat, Aug 21, 2004 at 06:35:44PM +0200, Melanie wrote: it's backwards in a numerical sense, in that the numbers increase with one slider type, but decrease with another, using the

Re: [linux-audio-dev] mouse wheel behavior and RFC: human interface guidelines

2004-08-21 Thread John Check
On Saturday 21 August 2004 04:24 pm, Lee Revell wrote: On Sat, 2004-08-21 at 16:14, John Check wrote: On Saturday 21 August 2004 02:10 pm, Pete Bessman wrote: I guarantee you that the last thing on 99.8% of users' minds when they're adjusting a horizontal volume slider is This is kind of

Re: [linux-audio-dev] mouse wheel behavior and RFC: human interface guidelines

2004-08-21 Thread Lee Revell
On Sat, 2004-08-21 at 16:36, John Check wrote: On Saturday 21 August 2004 04:24 pm, Lee Revell wrote: On Sat, 2004-08-21 at 16:14, John Check wrote: On Saturday 21 August 2004 02:10 pm, Pete Bessman wrote: I guarantee you that the last thing on 99.8% of users' minds when they're

Re: [linux-audio-dev] mouse wheel behavior and RFC: human interface guidelines

2004-08-21 Thread John Check
On Saturday 21 August 2004 04:51 pm, Lee Revell wrote: On Sat, 2004-08-21 at 16:36, John Check wrote: On Saturday 21 August 2004 04:24 pm, Lee Revell wrote: On Sat, 2004-08-21 at 16:14, John Check wrote: On Saturday 21 August 2004 02:10 pm, Pete Bessman wrote: I guarantee you that

Re: [linux-audio-dev] mouse wheel behavior and RFC: human interface guidelines

2004-08-21 Thread Lee Revell
On Sat, 2004-08-21 at 17:31, John Check wrote: On Saturday 21 August 2004 04:51 pm, Lee Revell wrote: On Sat, 2004-08-21 at 16:36, John Check wrote: On Saturday 21 August 2004 04:24 pm, Lee Revell wrote: On Sat, 2004-08-21 at 16:14, John Check wrote: On Saturday 21 August 2004 02:10

Re: [linux-audio-dev] mouse wheel behavior and RFC: human interface guidelines

2004-08-21 Thread Lee Revell
On Sat, 2004-08-21 at 17:33, John Check wrote: On Saturday 21 August 2004 04:41 pm, Lee Revell wrote: On Sat, 2004-08-21 at 14:45, Thorsten Wilms wrote: Today might well have been the first time I used the wheel on common sliders, and it felt backwards! Agreed. I can understand why

Re: [linux-audio-dev] mouse wheel behavior and RFC: human interface guidelines

2004-08-21 Thread John Check
On Saturday 21 August 2004 05:47 pm, Lee Revell wrote: On Sat, 2004-08-21 at 17:31, John Check wrote: On Saturday 21 August 2004 04:51 pm, Lee Revell wrote: On Sat, 2004-08-21 at 16:36, John Check wrote: On Saturday 21 August 2004 04:24 pm, Lee Revell wrote: On Sat, 2004-08-21 at

Re: [linux-audio-dev] mouse wheel behavior and RFC: human interface guidelines

2004-08-21 Thread John Check
On Saturday 21 August 2004 05:50 pm, Lee Revell wrote: On Sat, 2004-08-21 at 17:33, John Check wrote: On Saturday 21 August 2004 04:41 pm, Lee Revell wrote: On Sat, 2004-08-21 at 14:45, Thorsten Wilms wrote: Today might well have been the first time I used the wheel on common

Re: [linux-audio-dev] mouse wheel behavior and RFC: human interface guidelines

2004-08-21 Thread John Check
On Saturday 21 August 2004 06:48 pm, John Check wrote: On Saturday 21 August 2004 05:50 pm, Lee Revell wrote: On Sat, 2004-08-21 at 17:33, John Check wrote: On Saturday 21 August 2004 04:41 pm, Lee Revell wrote: On Sat, 2004-08-21 at 14:45, Thorsten Wilms wrote: Today might well

Re: [linux-audio-dev] Re: [off-list] Read this after your first cup of coffee

2004-08-21 Thread Luke Yelavich
On Sun, Aug 22, 2004 at 01:49:32AM EST, Paul Davis wrote: In terms of using GUI software, there is in fact software for Windows, that allows blind/vision impaired users to use Cakewalk Sonar with a screen reader. Just how this is done, I do not know, but it is done. i think they use an

Re: [linux-audio-dev] Re: [off-list] Read this after your first cup of coffee

2004-08-21 Thread Luke Yelavich
On Sun, Aug 22, 2004 at 06:04:00AM EST, John Check wrote: mr boggs doesn't use any aspect of the protools GUI to run protools. he uses outSPOKEN, a speech recognition system, and a JL Cooper control surface. since you could connect this style interfaces to more or less any program, this