On Sun, 2005-06-19 at 02:10 +, Lachlan Davison wrote:
So i think the goal really needs to be as Jay said, it just works.
Agree 100%, but we need to be fully aware that this we are tackling a
problem that no one has ever solved. OSX just works because Apple
controls the hardware and has full
Lee Revell wrote:
On Sun, 2005-06-19 at 02:10 +, Lachlan Davison wrote:
So i think the goal really needs to be as Jay said, it just works.
Agree 100%, but we need to be fully aware that this we are tackling a
problem that no one has ever solved. OSX just works because Apple
On Sun, 19 Jun 2005 01:57:27 +0200, fons adriaensen
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
A number of issues have been mixed up in this debate:
1. 'cheap' vs. 'pro' audio cards.
I do agree there is a large category in between, usually named
'prosumer', and that these are used by 'professional' (as
Lee Revell wrote:
On Sat, 2005-06-18 at 20:51 +, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
its already a nightmare beacuse gstreamer wants to use OSS emulation
on the same channel as mplayer32 (which i could get around by running
a second jackd in 32bit mode, connecting to mplayer32 and
communicating
And since when is switching the audio engine to change from reading
your email to doing your audio editing a big issue?
i'll tell you when: when you've used OSX, and are now trying Linux
out, and Don't Understand At All Why You Have To Even Bother, Or Why
Its Cool That You Have To Bother.
- If ever I have reason, as a customer paying for your services, to
suspect that you are careless about the security and confidentiality
of the data related to my project, for example if I know that your
girlfriend or 12 year old son are using the same login to do their
chatting, then I
Now given the two following options:
A. Extend Jack to accomodate all the diverse needs of the
desktop developers, and request them to use it for all
applications,
this woud IMHO be the best solution, but it will not happen or
at least last very long until
* all distros will have JACK
this woud IMHO be the best solution, but it will not happen or
at least last very long until
* all distros will have JACK running per default
* all developers of any audio program have rewritten their
code.
Why not use only ALSA API. There is alsa to jack plugin. If someone
wants use jack it
Lee Revell wrote:
FWIW, Linspire (formerly Lindows) have made the same conclusion, and
their next release will use JACK for all desktop audio.
Interesting. Do you know how they intend to use jack for desktop apps ?
using artsd/gstreamer/esd piped into jack or other methods ?
Benno
Hi,
i have searched the web and the ALSA pages and found very little
information concerning the status of the development efforts, if
any, and who might be interested.
This card seems like a good means to hook a notebook into a DJ
mixer, splitting the output into 2 or 3 stereo outs.
I am
Interesting. Do you know how they intend to use jack for
desktop apps ? using artsd/gstreamer/esd piped into jack or
other methods ?
I guess via bio2jack.sf.net. THe xmms output plugin is based
on it, and I guess also the arts output plugin does use it.
Best regards
ce
Why not use only ALSA API. There is alsa to jack plugin. If
someone wants use jack it can be used to route audio to
jack. Also there are alsa - OSS driver plugins. This
means you can output sound from alsa app to oss driver or
capture from alsa driver without any source change.
As soon as
Hm, maybe the following will be an acceptable solution:
Non-Pro Applications should use the ALSA-API for Audio Output and Input.
They will use the default ALSA Device, which by default should be the
DMIX Plugin, which does samplerate conversion and mixing, if this is
not provided by the
Jay Vaughan wrote:
look, the point is: your proposal is faulty. having two logins, one
for 'pro' use, and one for 'my teenage daughter', instead of
engineering software subsystems that can accomodate the need for
professional, always-working, rock-solid stable audio .. this is just
..
Lachlan Davison wrote:
Just to join in... from a dance music making perspective i'm not sure if i understand this customer concept. Does your fav rock band use best practice and professional conduct? are they not professional? I hope at least some of the people on here are interested in making
Greetings:
The subject says it all.
My own Linux audio sucks hobbyhorse:
No way to recall a complex configuration of apps and plugins with
all settings intact. If I use a complicated setup with multiple synths
and plugins I have no way to recall these applications to their previous
I lied about retiring from this discussion. ;-)
well .. good, because i believe this thread bears fruit.
I agree that the distinction between pro and consumer should be a
non-issue. Historically hardware manufacturers certainly make the
distinction, they build some gear for Johnny Stay At
And your favorite is... ?
The ALSA versus OSS war. This blows.
ALSA compatability layer in OSS, OSS compatability layer in ALSA ...
The fact is, the OSS guys profit from perpetuating this problem. I
would never buy a driver from them, because they have a vested
interest in keeping
On Sun, 2005-06-19 at 12:44 +0200, Benno Senoner wrote:
Lee Revell wrote:
FWIW, Linspire (formerly Lindows) have made the same conclusion, and
their next release will use JACK for all desktop audio.
Interesting. Do you know how they intend to use jack for desktop apps ?
using
On Sun, 2005-06-19 at 13:42 +0200, Melanie wrote:
Hi,
i have searched the web and the ALSA pages and found very little
information concerning the status of the development efforts, if
any, and who might be interested.
This card seems like a good means to hook a notebook into a DJ
The subject says it all.
Are you serious?!?
This can cause a further thread which will be called
flamewar.
And your favorite is... ?
I guess I'd better shut up :) .
Best regards
ce
On Sun, 2005-06-19 at 12:01 -0400, Dave Phillips wrote:
And your favorite is... ?
Skype and other closed source apps which refuse to support ALSA
properly, leading to tons of useless bug reports and users blaming the
problem on ALSA.
Lee
On Sun, 2005-06-19 at 15:02 -0400, Lee Revell wrote:
On Sun, 2005-06-19 at 12:01 -0400, Dave Phillips wrote:
And your favorite is... ?
Skype and other closed source apps which refuse to support ALSA
properly, leading to tons of useless bug reports and users blaming the
problem on
On Sun, 2005-06-19 at 12:42 -0700, Erik Steffl wrote:
MULTIPLE SOUNDS:
looks like dmix solves the problem but it seems like it's not that
easy to set it up (I haven't tried since I have soundcard with hw
support for multiple channels).
Fixed in ALSA 1.0.9.
SOUNBLASTER LIVE
OK,
And your favorite is... ?
you asked for it :) .
Some things which I'd really appreciate:
* Applications could remember tha last used MIDI and JACK
connections as well as the last used file and resetup
itselves when getting restarted. Applications could write
these infos to the config
I've long wanted to add samplerate conversion to jack, but
haven't made my mind on how it should be implemented.
AFAIK JACK isn't intended to do samplerate conversion on the
fly. To do this, you need something on top of JACK (maybe a
soundserver) or between JACK and the actual hardware
We are trying to provide an OSX like experience but support
the range of hardware that Windows does. Microsoft has
more dollars at its disposal than any entity in history,
and they have not solved this problem yet.
yeah, but perhaps it wasn't important enough for them to spent
money working
El sb, 18-06-2005 a las 18:34, Lee Revell escribi:
On Sat, 2005-06-18 at 16:38 +0200, Richard Spindler wrote:
Well I think that there is absolutly no border between Professional
Audio and Non-Professional Audio.
Just think about it, today you're using mainly xmms to play some
Hi,
personally, if i knew it would help, i wouldn't mind
spending time patching existing apps and submitting patches
to their coders, if it brought everyone into a 'common
base' that could be further exploited to put linux audio in
a better state.
much appreciated. You're welcome :) . But
Hm, maybe the following will be an acceptable solution:
Non-Pro Applications should use the ALSA-API for Audio
Output and Input.
They will use the default ALSA Device, which by default
should be the DMIX Plugin, which does samplerate conversion
and mixing, if this is not provided by the
On Sun, 2005-06-19 at 23:31 +0200, Christoph Eckert wrote:
Forget it. The distros put packages together (that's their
first job) and create installers and configuration GUIs. They
do not help improving packages.
But the core ALSA developers work for SuSE. There must be some other
* Want audio on GNU/Linux? Use ALSA + jack _directly_.
This means that some audio applications will suddenly be
unable to output sound, and still work is needed to prepare
JACK for this special task.
I think that the approach of using DMIX between the ALSA
driver and JACK can be a pragmatic
The Linspire guy confirmed that their next version will do
this. AFAIK it's not available yet.
OK, but I don't think they have jackified all apps (and even
if so, give the code because most apps are GPL'ed ;-).
Most probably they have used bio2jack a lot, but if this hack
helps, there's
But the core ALSA developers work for SuSE. There must be
some other explanation for this one.
Maybe they just felt that dmix was not ready until
recently. Or maybe their desktop people really do not ever
talk to the ALSA people.
Takashi once told me that DMIX was a bit buggy for some
Dave Phillips wrote:
Greetings:
The subject says it all.
My own Linux audio sucks hobbyhorse:
No way to recall a complex configuration of apps and plugins with
all settings intact. If I use a complicated setup with multiple synths
and plugins I have no way to recall these applications
ALSA related, I hate:
-Dmix. It's not fair, why not the windows/beos approach which uses
primary/secondary buffers? so you can
AT THE SAME TIME access asyncronously to the audio device (Jack) and
have lower priority audio mix when it can, by copying it from from some
less-priority buffers
As I said many times It's not that I hate Linux Audio, but mainly that I
mmh, i love it,
believe that it is too poor
in features/API for my taste. I tried very hard for several years to
make my apps play together
with jack/alsa, but I find myself very limited in many areas as a
On Sun, 2005-06-19 at 22:22 -0300, Juan Linietsky wrote:
-Alsa/Jack integration in timestamping is poor, syncronizing audio to
midi is a pain
-I have no way to ask from a sequencer, the patch names available in
a
softsynth to list them
-Jack lack of midi
Many people have made the same
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
As I said many times It's not that I hate Linux Audio, but mainly that I
mmh, i love it,
believe that it is too poor
in features/API for my taste. I tried very hard for several years to
make my apps play together
with jack/alsa, but I find myself very
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