Re: [Patch] document ext3 requirements (was Re: [RFD] Incremental fsck)

2008-01-17 Thread Szabolcs Szakacsits
On Tue, 15 Jan 2008, Daniel Phillips wrote: Along with this effort, could you let me know if the world actually cares about online fsck? Now we know how to do it I think, but is it worth the effort. Most users seem to care deeply about things just work. Here is why ntfs-3g also took the

Re: [Patch] document ext3 requirements (was Re: [RFD] Incremental fsck)

2008-01-17 Thread Pavel Machek
On Tue 2008-01-15 20:36:16, Chris Mason wrote: On Tue, 15 Jan 2008 20:24:27 -0500 Daniel Phillips [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Jan 15, 2008 7:15 PM, Alan Cox [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Writeback cache on disk in iteself is not bad, it only gets bad if the disk is not engineered to save

Re: [Patch] document ext3 requirements (was Re: [RFD] Incremental fsck)

2008-01-17 Thread Daniel Phillips
On Jan 17, 2008 7:29 AM, Szabolcs Szakacsits [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Similarly to ZFS, Windows Server 2008 also has self-healing NTFS: I guess that is enough votes to justify going ahead and trying an implementation of the reverse mapping ideas I posted. But of course more votes for this is

Re: [Patch] document ext3 requirements (was Re: [RFD] Incremental fsck)

2008-01-16 Thread Pavel Machek
Hi! Along with this effort, could you let me know if the world actually cares about online fsck? I'm not the world's spokeperson (yet ;-). Now we know how to do it I think, but is it worth the effort. ext3's lets fsck on every 20 mounts is good idea, but it can be annoying when

Re: [Patch] document ext3 requirements (was Re: [RFD] Incremental fsck)

2008-01-16 Thread Christoph Hellwig
On Wed, Jan 16, 2008 at 08:43:25AM +1100, David Chinner wrote: ext3 is not the only filesystem that will have trouble due to volatile write caches. We see problems often enough with XFS due to volatile write caches that it's in our FAQ: In fact it will hit every filesystem. A write-back cache

Re: [Patch] document ext3 requirements (was Re: [RFD] Incremental fsck)

2008-01-16 Thread Valerie Henson
On Jan 16, 2008 3:49 AM, Pavel Machek [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ext3's lets fsck on every 20 mounts is good idea, but it can be annoying when developing. Having option to fsck while filesystem is online takes that annoyance away. I'm sure everyone on cc: knows this, but for the record you can

Re: [Patch] document ext3 requirements (was Re: [RFD] Incremental fsck)

2008-01-16 Thread Eric Sandeen
Alan Cox wrote: Writeback cache on disk in iteself is not bad, it only gets bad if the disk is not engineered to save all its dirty cache on power loss, using the disk motor as a generator or alternatively a small battery. It would be awfully nice to know which brands fail here, if any,

Re: [Patch] document ext3 requirements (was Re: [RFD] Incremental fsck)

2008-01-16 Thread Andreas Dilger
On Jan 15, 2008 22:05 -0500, Rik van Riel wrote: With a filesystem that is compartmentalized and checksums metadata, I believe that an online fsck is absolutely worth having. Instead of the filesystem resorting to mounting the whole volume read-only on certain errors, part of the filesystem

[Patch] document ext3 requirements (was Re: [RFD] Incremental fsck)

2008-01-15 Thread Pavel Machek
Hi! What are ext3 expectations of disk (is there doc somewhere)? For example... if disk does not lie, but powerfail during write damages the sector -- is ext3 still going to work properly? Nope. However the few disks that did this rapidly got firmware updates because there are other

Re: [Patch] document ext3 requirements (was Re: [RFD] Incremental fsck)

2008-01-15 Thread David Chinner
On Tue, Jan 15, 2008 at 09:16:53PM +0100, Pavel Machek wrote: Hi! What are ext3 expectations of disk (is there doc somewhere)? For example... if disk does not lie, but powerfail during write damages the sector -- is ext3 still going to work properly? Nope. However the few disks

Re: [Patch] document ext3 requirements (was Re: [RFD] Incremental fsck)

2008-01-15 Thread Pavel Machek
Hi! What are ext3 expectations of disk (is there doc somewhere)? For example... if disk does not lie, but powerfail during write damages the sector -- is ext3 still going to work properly? Nope. However the few disks that did this rapidly got firmware updates because there

Re: [Patch] document ext3 requirements (was Re: [RFD] Incremental fsck)

2008-01-15 Thread Daniel Phillips
On Jan 15, 2008 6:07 PM, Pavel Machek [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I had write cache enabled on my main computer. Oops. I guess that means we do need better documentation. Writeback cache on disk in iteself is not bad, it only gets bad if the disk is not engineered to save all its dirty cache on

Re: [Patch] document ext3 requirements (was Re: [RFD] Incremental fsck)

2008-01-15 Thread Alan Cox
Writeback cache on disk in iteself is not bad, it only gets bad if the disk is not engineered to save all its dirty cache on power loss, using the disk motor as a generator or alternatively a small battery. It would be awfully nice to know which brands fail here, if any, because writeback

Re: [Patch] document ext3 requirements (was Re: [RFD] Incremental fsck)

2008-01-15 Thread Daniel Phillips
On Jan 15, 2008 7:15 PM, Alan Cox [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Writeback cache on disk in iteself is not bad, it only gets bad if the disk is not engineered to save all its dirty cache on power loss, using the disk motor as a generator or alternatively a small battery. It would be awfully nice

Re: [Patch] document ext3 requirements (was Re: [RFD] Incremental fsck)

2008-01-15 Thread Chris Mason
On Tue, 15 Jan 2008 20:24:27 -0500 Daniel Phillips [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Jan 15, 2008 7:15 PM, Alan Cox [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Writeback cache on disk in iteself is not bad, it only gets bad if the disk is not engineered to save all its dirty cache on power loss, using the disk

Re: [Patch] document ext3 requirements (was Re: [RFD] Incremental fsck)

2008-01-15 Thread Daniel Phillips
Hi Pavel, Along with this effort, could you let me know if the world actually cares about online fsck? Now we know how to do it I think, but is it worth the effort. Regards, Daniel - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line unsubscribe linux-fsdevel in the body of a message to [EMAIL

Re: [Patch] document ext3 requirements (was Re: [RFD] Incremental fsck)

2008-01-15 Thread Rik van Riel
On Tue, 15 Jan 2008 20:44:38 -0500 Daniel Phillips [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Along with this effort, could you let me know if the world actually cares about online fsck? Now we know how to do it I think, but is it worth the effort. With a filesystem that is compartmentalized and checksums