Re: [WSG] Legitimate uses of b and i

Thanks Kat! I've been following this discussion and feeling like a cat at Wimbledon, following the points back and forth... For me this is the definitive match point! Now do you have an equally incisive answer for sup and sub? Andrew Maben 109b SE 4th Av Gainesville FL 32601 Cell:

Re: [WSG] Legitimate uses of b and i

Andrew I believe that Kat is correct in her approach, though would suggest that the class is applied to an em tag set, therefore will still be shown as being employed even if CSS is disabled for whatever reason. -- Regards - Rob Raising web standards : http://ele.vation.co.uk Linking in with

Re: [WSG] Legitimate uses of b and i (and lang)

Katrina wrote: 2) Language usage such as Latin as this is a long standing convention in print and must be retained (thus not styled via CSS). Example: i lang=laLorem ispum/i I actually come across this situation from time to time and I have ummed and ahhed over what the best thing

Re: [WSG] Legitimate uses of b and i

Quoting Rob Kirton [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Andrew I believe that Kat is correct in her approach, though would suggest that the class is applied to an em tag set, therefore will still be shown as being employed even if CSS is disabled for whatever reason. N...if it's not an emphasis, don't

Re: [WSG] Legitimate uses of b and i

Patrick H. Lauke wrote: End of the day: if you're really after showing a visual style even if CSS is unavailable or disabled, heck, stick with presentational markup and use i then, and don't abuse em where it's not appropriate. Call me sad, but I love these conversations. As far as I'm

Re: [WSG] Legitimate uses of b and i

Patrick You may have misunderstood my approach, or we may agree to differ Katrina's remark was My final answer is to place it in spans, such as span class=species lang=latinEchium plantagineum/span because: I am suggesting that an em should be used with the same class. That is if she so

Re: [WSG] Legitimate uses of b and i

My understanding is that screen-readers will place an audible emphasis on em and strong tags, but do nothing for i and b. When i'm reading a sentence that has latin phrases such as /as nauseum/, I don't put an audible emphasis on those words, or any emphasis at all in fact. The latin words

Re: [WSG] Legitimate uses of b and i

Rob Kirton wrote: I am suggesting that an em should be used with the same class. That is if she so wishes or as convention dictates, latin emphasis can be made italic and globally changed if required later. Other forms of emphasis could be applied for non latin phrases / other purposes. I

Re: [WSG] Legitimate uses of b and i

On Thu, Jan 18, 2007 at 02:01:49PM +, Barney Carroll wrote: Emphasis and strong emphasis are far stronger and more independent concepts, and have that sought-after advantage of creating the same visual effects by default, without recourse to CSS. If your top priority is making your text

Re: [WSG] Legitimate uses of b and i

David Dorward wrote: On Thu, Jan 18, 2007 at 02:01:49PM +, Barney Carroll wrote: Emphasis and strong emphasis are far stronger and more independent concepts, and have that sought-after advantage of creating the same visual effects by default, without recourse to CSS. If your top priority

Re: [WSG] Legitimate uses of b and i

Hello Andrew, Michael his my name am newlly Web-designer here in Nigeria. and am looking for friend around the world to help me and build me to the world taste of the corparate designing. So kindly help me with things you know it will be in a help on creating web-site. And if i want to have my

Re: [WSG] Legitimate uses of b and i

Subject: Re: [WSG] Legitimate uses of b and i Might be worth looking at the work on the Microformats site for more detailed citation markup http://microformats.org/wiki/cite http://microformats.org/wiki/citation-examples http://microformats.org/wiki/citation-examples#List_of_all_pr operties

RE: [WSG] Legitimate uses of b and i

Adesanwo Sent: Thursday, January 18, 2007 5:24 PM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] Legitimate uses of b and i Hello Andrew, Michael his my name am newlly Web-designer here in Nigeria. and am looking for friend around the world to help me and build me to the world taste

RE: [WSG] Legitimate uses of b and i

-Original Message- From: listdad@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Patrick H. Lauke Sent: Tuesday, January 16, 2007 8:35 PM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] Legitimate uses of b and i [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: A very similar example would

Re: [WSG] Legitimate uses of b and i

Might be worth looking at the work on the Microformats site for more detailed citation markup http://microformats.org/wiki/cite http://microformats.org/wiki/citation-examples http://microformats.org/wiki/citation-examples#List_of_all_properties

RE: [WSG] Legitimate uses of b and i

Quoting [EMAIL PROTECTED]: cite is a single element. A full bibliographic reference will typically contain a selection from: Article name Journal name Authors name(s) Editors name(s) Date of publication and probably a few other things. As you can see, each item needs to be kept distinct

RE: [WSG] Legitimate uses of b and i

-Original Message- From: listdad@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Patrick H. Lauke Sent: Wednesday, January 17, 2007 2:38 PM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: RE: [WSG] Legitimate uses of b and i A suitable micro-format would be great

RE: [WSG] Legitimate uses of b and i

-Original Message- From: listdad@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of russ - maxdesign Sent: Wednesday, January 17, 2007 1:10 PM To: Web Standards Group Subject: Re: [WSG] Legitimate uses of b and i Might be worth looking at the work on the Microformats

Re: [WSG] Legitimate uses of b and i

2) Language usage such as Latin as this is a long standing convention in print and must be retained (thus not styled via CSS). Example: i lang=laLorem ispum/i I actually come across this situation from time to time and I have ummed and ahhed over what the best thing to do is. My

Re: [WSG] Legitimate uses of b and i

The only situation I can think of when there is an established visual standard for certain things that don't really have a semantic emphasis. I use a simple test: does the meaning conveyed need to remain if CSS is disabled? If yes, then stick with em and strong. The only place I can think of

[WSG] Legitimate uses of b and i

I know these tags are only supposed to be used for presentational rather than semantic emphasis, but i've been struggling to come up with examples of when they would be used. The only situation I can think of when there is an established visual standard for certain things that don't really

RE: [WSG] Legitimate uses of b and i

, 2007 4:56 PM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: [WSG] Legitimate uses of b and i I know these tags are only supposed to be used for presentational rather than semantic emphasis, but i've been struggling to come up with examples of when they would be used. The only situation I can

Re: [WSG] Legitimate uses of b and i

I know these tags are only supposed to be used for presentational rather than semantic emphasis, but i've been struggling to come up with examples of when they would be used. Same here. The only situation I can think of when there is an established visual standard for certain things that

Re: [WSG] Legitimate uses of b and i

Hello Andrew, Does anyone know of any other legitimate uses of these tags? For the life of me I cannot think of one legitimate use for the b element. If it's bold then the reason is probably strong emphasis thus strong should be used. Otherwise it should be made bold in the CSS. For the i

Re: [WSG] Legitimate uses of b and i

At 1/16/2007 08:55 AM, Andrew Ingram wrote: I know these tags are only supposed to be used for presentational rather than semantic emphasis, but i've been struggling to come up with examples of when they would be used. The only situation I can think of when there is an established visual

Re: [WSG] Legitimate uses of b and i

I do not agree. The VISUAL impact or VISUAL meaning should be added by CSS. If you need italicized text, you´ll be probally trying to add some emphasis or differentiation in the page. Why should we hide this from our NON-VISUAL friends? Legitimate i , it´s the same of legitimate font. It´s the

Re: [WSG] Legitimate uses of b and i

Mike at Green-Beast.com wrote: Hello Andrew, Does anyone know of any other legitimate uses of these tags? For the life of me I cannot think of one legitimate use for the b element. If it's bold then the reason is probably strong emphasis thus strong should be used. Otherwise it

Re: [WSG] Legitimate uses of b and i

Just one more thing: For language purposes, there is always the lang attribute. It can be added to a meaningless element, like span. The W3C recommends this kind of approach. Ok, ok. So, the browsers don´t understand that yet. But it´s always better to use EM over I and STRONG over B. --

Re: [WSG] Legitimate uses of b and i

imagine what it would be. Respectfully, Mike Cherim - Original Message - From: Raphael Martins [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Sent: Tuesday, January 16, 2007 1:51 PM Subject: Re: [WSG] Legitimate uses of b and i I do not agree. The VISUAL impact or VISUAL meaning should

Re: [WSG] Legitimate uses of b and i

* it is different with scientific names but I'm not sure. Mike - Original Message - From: Designer [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Sent: Tuesday, January 16, 2007 2:01 PM Subject: Re: [WSG] Legitimate uses of b and i Mike at Green-Beast.com wrote: Hello Andrew

Re: [WSG] Legitimate uses of b and i

Raphael Martins wrote: For language purposes, there is always the lang attribute. It can be added to a meaningless element, like span. Absoluetly. I agree. This is also a WCAG requirement. http://www.w3.org/TR/WAI-WEBCONTENT-TECHS/#tech-identify-changes But it´s always better to use EM over

Re: [WSG] Legitimate uses of b and i

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: A very similar example would be bibliographic citations What's wrong with cite then? P -- Patrick H. Lauke __ re·dux (adj.): brought back; returned. used postpositively [latin : re-, re- + dux, leader; see duke.]

Re: [WSG] Legitimate uses of b and i

Mike at Green-Beast.com wrote: Just because something is visual doesn't mean that it doesn't have meaning. Of course. But HTML has far more sophisticated ways to convey meaning behind the scenes than printed material, which intrinsically has to convey the extra meaning in a visual way. What

Re: [WSG] Legitimate uses of b and i

Andrew Ingram wrote: I know these tags are only supposed to be used for presentational rather than semantic emphasis, but i've been struggling to come up with examples of when they would be used. The recently written definitions of b and i in HTML5 should be of some use to you.