+1
On Sep 18, 2013, at 10:57, gvim gvi...@gmail.com wrote:
On 18/09/2013 14:21, Jérôme Étévé wrote:
Probably a book about trolling on London.pm would be most entertaining.
I think it reflects badly on our community when any concern raised about
something lacking is automatically
On 20 Sep 2013, at 16:38, Adrian Howard adri...@quietstars.com wrote:
On 20 September 2013 14:50, Peter Corlett ab...@cabal.org.uk wrote:
On Fri, Sep 20, 2013 at 09:34:01AM +1000, Kieren Diment wrote:
On 20/09/2013, at 9:21, Peter Corlett ab...@cabal.org.uk wrote:
If you are so passionate
On 20/09/2013 00:21, Peter Corlett wrote:
You clearly disagree. I'm also cool with that.
I doubt that, judging by the tone of your replies.
However, your petulant whinges on this mailing list aren't going to achieve
anything, except perhaps to add your name to a few killfiles. If you are so
On 20 September 2013 00:34, Kieren Diment dim...@gmail.com wrote:
Many publishers prefer msword ;)
Yeah, that's really frustrating. We used markdown, but only for the
initial drafts, after which we compiled sources to .docx, after which
Track Changes has been pretty much the state of the art.
On Thu, Sep 19, 2013 at 04:57:08PM -0700, Paul Makepeace wrote:
On Thu, Sep 19, 2013 at 4:21 PM, Peter Corlett ab...@cabal.org.uk wrote:
If somebody new discovers Perl and uses it, that's great. If they don't,
I'm cool with that too.
Well if perl doesn't attract new developers, and the
On 20 September 2013 00:57, Paul Makepeace pa...@paulm.com wrote:
On Thu, Sep 19, 2013 at 4:21 PM, Peter Corlett ab...@cabal.org.uk wrote:
If somebody new discovers Perl and uses it, that's great. If they don't, I'm
cool with that too.
Well if perl doesn't attract new developers, and the
On 20 Sep 2013, at 07:46, gvim gvi...@gmail.com wrote:
I doubt that, judging by the tone of your replies.
Welcome to London.pm, home of robust discussion.
Oh well, I should have known better than to engage in discussion with someone
whose email address begins with abuse. Have a nice life.
On Fri, Sep 20, 2013 at 09:34:01AM +1000, Kieren Diment wrote:
On 20/09/2013, at 9:21, Peter Corlett ab...@cabal.org.uk wrote:
If you are so passionate about seeing new niche Perl books written as you
are making out, you had better fire up your editor and get cracking.
Many publishers prefer
On 20/09/2013, at 11:50 PM, Peter Corlett ab...@cabal.org.uk wrote:
On Fri, Sep 20, 2013 at 09:34:01AM +1000, Kieren Diment wrote:
On 20/09/2013, at 9:21, Peter Corlett ab...@cabal.org.uk wrote:
If you are so passionate about seeing new niche Perl books written as you
are making out, you had
On 20 September 2013 14:50, Peter Corlett ab...@cabal.org.uk wrote:
On Fri, Sep 20, 2013 at 09:34:01AM +1000, Kieren Diment wrote:
On 20/09/2013, at 9:21, Peter Corlett ab...@cabal.org.uk wrote:
If you are so passionate about seeing new niche Perl books written as you
are making out, you had
On 19 September 2013 11:51, Abigail abig...@abigail.be wrote:
I'd call them niche books. If generic books don't sell, why would
niche books?
Actually - I wouldn't be surprised if a niche Perl book did sell
better than a generic Perl book.
Perl isn't the most popular kid on the block ATM. So
On 19 September 2013 20:16, Avleen Vig avl...@gmail.com wrote:
[snip]
Well hold on just a minute there. One of the primary reasons Perl got to be
hugely popular is exactly because books like Programming Perl and Learning
Perl spoonfed the answers to new users.
[snip]
I don't remember it that
On Fri, Sep 20, 2013 at 4:19 PM, Adrian Howard adri...@quietstars.com wrote:
Publishers are in the business of making money. They *vastly* prefer
to sell to an existing market, rather than try to create one.
Technical books are a trailing indicator of interest, not a leading
one. I can't
At 05:21 PM 9/18/2013, gvim wrote:
On 18/09/2013 16:10, Elizabeth Mattijsen wrote:
Don't forget Ovid's Beginning Perl,
http://shop.oreilly.com/product/9781118013847.do :-)
More generic Perl books. Exactly what we don't need.
gvim
I disagree. It is exactly what we need. Not you
On Thu, Sep 19, 2013 at 05:26:17AM +1200, Kent Fredric wrote:
On 19 September 2013 03:04, Nicholas Clark n...@ccl4.org wrote:
Maybe everyone already feels that they know Perl well enough to blag an
interview.
Maybe an interesting, and uniquely disruptive topic for a book could be
You
On 19 September 2013 08:41, Philippe Bruhat (BooK)
philippe.bru...@free.fr wrote:
On Thu, Sep 19, 2013 at 05:26:17AM +1200, Kent Fredric wrote:
Maybe an interesting, and uniquely disruptive topic for a book could be
You don't know Perl ( or something along those lines...
That book needs a
On 19 September 2013 19:41, Philippe Bruhat (BooK)
philippe.bru...@free.frwrote:
That book needs a chapter about the secret operators. ;-)
I disagree, I don't see much value in promoting esoteric ways to use Perl.
We just need to promote things that are good, and things that are awesome,
and
On Thu, Sep 19, 2013 at 9:46 AM, Kent Fredric kentfred...@gmail.com wrote:
On 19 September 2013 19:41, Philippe Bruhat (BooK)
philippe.bru...@free.frwrote:
That book needs a chapter about the secret operators. ;-)
I disagree, I don't see much value in promoting esoteric ways to use Perl.
On Thu, Sep 19, 2013 at 08:46:35PM +1200, Kent Fredric wrote:
On 19 September 2013 19:41, Philippe Bruhat (BooK)
philippe.bru...@free.frwrote:
That book needs a chapter about the secret operators. ;-)
I disagree, I don't see much value in promoting esoteric ways to use Perl.
We just
On Wed, Sep 18, 2013 at 04:19:18PM +0100, gvim wrote:
On 18/09/2013 15:57, Jason Clifford wrote:
I wonder whether part of the answer to this question lies in the fact
that the things that could be covered in Perl books about frameworks,
Moose, etc are fairly well documented and that the
Abigail abig...@abigail.be wrote:
I'd call them niche books. If generic books don't sell, why would niche
books?
A thought. One way of mitigating the risk of writing a book that might not
sell could be to use cloud funding (e.g. kickstarter.com). This would have a
number of advantages:
- it
On 19 Sep 2013, at 12:21, Chris Jack chris_j...@msn.com wrote:
[...]
- it would be more apparent how little money is sometimes available for the
effort of writing a book
I don't know the exact figures, but it's roughly a four figure sum for a
reasonably successful Perl book. And given that
think about $20-30 and at least one day out of your life per week for 6
months to work on the book. It's not lucrative, but I found the whole
experience fun and rewarding. Except for the day when I wrote around 4000
words and felt quite mentally unstable at the end. The following day I
threw at
$20-30 per hour that should say. Why don't mailing lists have an edit
button?
On Thu, Sep 19, 2013 at 11:05 PM, Kieren Diment dim...@gmail.com wrote:
think about $20-30 and at least one day out of your life per week for 6
months to work on the book. It's not lucrative, but I found the whole
Trolling aside, I've come to an understanding about this recently which can
best be described thus:
Peel has entered the Erlang stage of its life cycle. It is a very capable
language, which became popular at a time when there was a great need for
the things it provided.
Since then it has seen
On 18 September 2013 17:01, Paul LeoNerd leon...@leonerd.org.uk wrote:
On Wed, 18 Sep 2013 16:45:10 +0100
Peter Corlett ab...@cabal.org.uk wrote:
If you don't agree, do feel free to give the titles of a few
hypothetical Perl books that you would be prepared to pay £30 for.
Asynchronous
On Thu, Sep 19, 2013 at 2:49 AM, Philippe Bruhat (BooK)
philippe.bru...@free.fr wrote:
Some of the secret ops are actually awesome, used in production code,
and deserve to be better known. From the top of my head: 0+ !! @{[]} ()x!!
Seriously. Perl's lack of a string eval interpolation
On 18 Sep 2013, at 21:03, gvim gvi...@gmail.com wrote:
On 18/09/2013 18:48, Peter Corlett wrote:
Dancer and Mojolicious are lightweight, DBIx::Class only slightly less so,
and are not separately enough material for a full-sized book. At best,
you're talking a 100 page print-on-demand
On Sep 19, 2013 2:39 PM, Peter Corlett ab...@cabal.org.uk wrote:
On 18 Sep 2013, at 21:03, gvim gvi...@gmail.com wrote:
On 18/09/2013 18:48, Peter Corlett wrote:
Dancer and Mojolicious are lightweight, DBIx::Class only slightly less
so, and are not separately enough material for a
On 19/09/2013 19:28, Peter Corlett wrote:
I don't think a book published purely in German is that relevant.
People who speak Mandarin, Hindi or Spanish no doubt have much the same opinion
of books published purely in English.
Relevant as in relevant to solving the suggested dearth of
On 19/09/2013 19:28, Peter Corlett wrote:
As it happens, I own a copy of REST in Practice. I fished it out
of my to read pile and given it a quick skim. The handful of
examples within are in C# and Java, but it's not called RESTful APIs
with C#/Java for a reason: this is a book about REST
On 19 Sep 2013, at 20:39, gvim gvi...@gmail.com wrote:
[...]
Again, it's not about me. It's about what's out there in other scripting
languages and how that affects mindshare for new Perl developers. The REST
example was used only to make a point. The fact that you can get by on RFCs
and
On 20/09/2013, at 9:21, Peter Corlett ab...@cabal.org.uk wrote:
If you are so passionate about seeing new niche Perl books written as you are
making out, you had better fire up your editor and get cracking.
Many publishers prefer msword ;)
On Thu, Sep 19, 2013 at 4:21 PM, Peter Corlett ab...@cabal.org.uk wrote:
If somebody new discovers Perl and uses it, that's great. If they don't, I'm
cool with that too.
Well if perl doesn't attract new developers, and the existing user
base is a diminishing set, perl will eventually run out
I don't mean to troll. In fact, to quote Stevan Little, I totally
asshat Perl :) but when I saw this today:
http://wegotcoders.com
... I couldn't help thinking Perl is getting left behind.
A contributing factor seems to be the narrow range of Perl books
published in recent years despite the
Funny, you usually do give the strong impression that you're trolling at
best, and that you don't read the replies other people send, so I'm
probably wasting my time here... However, I'm going to turn this question
round and ask which publishers you've approached to offer them Perl books?
/joel
On Wed, Sep 18, 2013 at 01:14:54PM +0100, gvim wrote:
I don't mean to troll. In fact, to quote Stevan Little, I totally
asshat Perl :) but when I saw this today:
http://wegotcoders.com
... I couldn't help thinking Perl is getting left behind.
This looks like a one-man shop, so I guess the
Probably a book about trolling on London.pm would be most entertaining.
On 18 September 2013 14:07, Joel Bernstein j...@fysh.org wrote:
Funny, you usually do give the strong impression that you're trolling at
best, and that you don't read the replies other people send, so I'm
probably wasting
On 18/09/2013 14:07, Joel Bernstein wrote:
Funny, you usually do give the strong impression that you're trolling at
best, and that you don't read the replies other people send, so I'm
probably wasting my time here... However, I'm going to turn this question
round and ask which publishers you've
On 18/09/2013 14:17, Philippe Bruhat (BooK) wrote:
This looks like a one-man shop, so I guess the kind of training they
offer depend on the sole instructor's bagage.
Here are 2 more:
http://www.makersacademy.com
https://generalassemb.ly/education/web-development-immersive
gvim
On 18/09/2013 14:21, Jérôme Étévé wrote:
Probably a book about trolling on London.pm would be most entertaining.
I think it reflects badly on our community when any concern raised about
something lacking is automatically dismissed as trolling.
gvim
On 18 September 2013 15:50, gvim gvi...@gmail.com wrote:
None, but what does that have to do with the question/concern I raised?
Again, I seriously wonder if you're trolling, but since this seems a
difficult concept: where do you think books come from? Without people
proposing them, they don't
Nothing specific, it was more a (failed) attempt to make a general
(humorous ?) comment :)
Sorry.
On 18 September 2013 14:57, gvim gvi...@gmail.com wrote:
On 18/09/2013 14:21, Jérôme Étévé wrote:
Probably a book about trolling on London.pm would be most entertaining.
I think it reflects
On Wed, 18 Sep 2013 14:21:59 +0100, Jérôme Étévé jerome.et...@gmail.com
wrote:
Probably a book about trolling on London.pm would be most entertaining.
Perhaps,
Perl off the Hook: trolling for the future of a moribund language?
-r
On Wed, Sep 18, 2013 at 01:14:54PM +0100, gvim wrote:
Something's gone wrong. Is it that publishers are not interested in
publishing Perl books or that Perl authors aren't writing about
interesting and specific applications of Perl?
Those are the only two options you consider? How about
On Wed, Sep 18, 2013 at 02:57:33PM +0100, gvim wrote:
On 18/09/2013 14:21, Jérôme Étévé wrote:
Probably a book about trolling on London.pm would be most entertaining.
I think it reflects badly on our community when any concern raised about
something lacking is automatically dismissed as
On 18/09/2013 14:59, Joel Bernstein wrote:
Again, I seriously wonder if you're trolling
Wikipedia defines trolling as:
a person who sows discord on the Internet by starting arguments or
upsetting people, by posting inflammatory, extraneous, or off-topic
messages in an online community
Not any concern, but more those expressed in your unique style, and with
memory of recent threads where you ignored useful responses and wilfully
misunderstood longsuffering respondents. This doesn't seem to happen with
other people.
On 18 September 2013 15:57, gvim gvi...@gmail.com wrote:
On
On 18 September 2013 14:59, Joel Bernstein j...@fysh.org wrote:
where do you think books come from?
Well, when a daddy book and a mummy book love each other very much...
As far as I can tell from talking to authors and publishers, the amount of
work a book requires snip
... will be the same
On Wed, Sep 18, 2013 at 03:22:06PM +0100, gvim wrote:
On 18/09/2013 14:59, Joel Bernstein wrote:
Again, I seriously wonder if you're trolling
Wikipedia defines trolling as:
I don't care. Please let's not discuss what trolling means or whether
anyone's doing it. Let's keep this thread to
On 18/09/2013 15:15, Tom Hukins wrote:
Hi, gvim. I think Jérôme was being silly rather than dismissive.
Also, I think your question is quite open-ended and has all sorts of
answers, most of which will be hard to validate. This sort of
discussion perhaps lends itself better to chat over a few
On Sep 18, 2013, at 4:57 PM, Jason Clifford ja...@ukfsn.org wrote:
On 2013-09-18 15:22, gvim wrote:
All of this is not to say there are no new books. There is a new edition of
Mastering Perl on the way.
Don't forget Ovid's Beginning Perl,
http://shop.oreilly.com/product/9781118013847.do :-)
On Wed, 18 Sep 2013 15:57:27 +0100
Jason Clifford ja...@ukfsn.org wrote:
I wonder whether part of the answer to this question lies in the fact
that the things that could be covered in Perl books about frameworks,
Moose, etc are fairly well documented and that the documentation is
easily
On Wed, Sep 18, 2013 at 04:15:08PM +0200, Abigail wrote:
On Wed, Sep 18, 2013 at 01:14:54PM +0100, gvim wrote:
Something's gone wrong. Is it that publishers are not interested in
publishing Perl books or that Perl authors aren't writing about
interesting and specific applications of
On 2013-09-18 15:22, gvim wrote:
My question was about what others perceive to be the reasons for the
dearth of Perl books and the lack of range in subject matter compared
with the proliferation of new titles in the Ruby and Python
communities.
I wonder whether part of the answer to this
On Wed, 18 Sep 2013 13:14:54 +0100
gvim gvi...@gmail.com wrote:
Something's gone wrong. Is it that publishers are not interested in
publishing Perl books or that Perl authors aren't writing about
interesting and specific applications of Perl?
Not wishing to troll in reply, but I'd be happy
On 18/09/2013 15:57, Jason Clifford wrote:
I wonder whether part of the answer to this question lies in the fact
that the things that could be covered in Perl books about frameworks,
Moose, etc are fairly well documented and that the documentation is
easily available.
Ruby and Rails are well
On 18/09/2013 16:10, Elizabeth Mattijsen wrote:
Don't forget Ovid's Beginning Perl,
http://shop.oreilly.com/product/9781118013847.do :-)
More generic Perl books. Exactly what we don't need.
gvim
On 18/09/13 16:07, Paul LeoNerd Evans wrote:
I just have no idea how to do so. The actual putting words on paper
(does anyone use actual paper any more?) I can do, it's all the rest of
it - the finding a publisher, talking to them, etc...
If you actually want more books writing, explain to us
On 18/09/2013 16:07, Paul LeoNerd Evans wrote:
Not wishing to troll in reply, but I'd be happy to write a book.
I just have no idea how to do so. The actual putting words on paper
(does anyone use actual paper any more?) I can do, it's all the rest of
it - the finding a publisher, talking to
GVIM what about Sublime ? vim, gvim, emacs, eclipse will be left behind
after sublime came out ?
On Wed, Sep 18, 2013 at 12:07 PM, Paul LeoNerd leon...@leonerd.org.ukwrote:
On Wed, 18 Sep 2013 13:14:54 +0100
gvim gvi...@gmail.com wrote:
Something's gone wrong. Is it that publishers are not
Would you care to explain why you think that?
On 18 September 2013 16:21, gvim gvi...@gmail.com wrote:
On 18/09/2013 16:10, Elizabeth Mattijsen wrote:
Don't forget Ovid's Beginning Perl, http://shop.oreilly.com/**
product/9781118013847.dohttp://shop.oreilly.com/product/9781118013847.do
On Wed, Sep 18, 2013 at 5:01 PM, Paul LeoNerd leon...@leonerd.org.ukwrote:
I would be prepared to pay £30 to write such a book.
My Paypal account is the same as this email address. Please send me the
money, and a copy of the book when you're done.
On 18/09/2013 16:35, Hernan Lopes wrote:
GVIM what about Sublime ? vim, gvim, emacs, eclipse will be left behind
after sublime came out ?
:) There have been quite a few new, interesting Vim books published in
recent years. Here's one:
On 18/09/2013 16:45, Peter Corlett wrote:
On 18 Sep 2013, at 13:14, gvim gvi...@gmail.com wrote:
No, it's because pretty much all of the books that can only be written about
Perl have already been written. What's left is of such minor appeal that no
sensible publisher will touch it.
If you
On 18 Sep 2013, at 13:14, gvim gvi...@gmail.com wrote:
[...]
Something's gone wrong. Is it that publishers are not interested in
publishing Perl books or that Perl authors aren't writing about interesting
and specific applications of Perl?
No, it's because pretty much all of the books that
On Wed, 18 Sep 2013 16:45:10 +0100
Peter Corlett ab...@cabal.org.uk wrote:
If you don't agree, do feel free to give the titles of a few
hypothetical Perl books that you would be prepared to pay £30 for.
Asynchronous Perl -
Achieving large-scale parallel concurrency without paying large
On 18/09/2013 16:47, Elizabeth Mattijsen wrote:
Disagree. The author has put a lot of effort into making a *new* introductory
book about modern Perl.
Your easy dismissal of that effort may be exactly the reason why you don't see
more Perl books. If the community itself cannot appreciate
On Sep 18, 2013, at 5:21 PM, gvim gvi...@gmail.com wrote:
On 18/09/2013 16:10, Elizabeth Mattijsen wrote:
Don't forget Ovid's Beginning Perl,
http://shop.oreilly.com/product/9781118013847.do :-)
More generic Perl books. Exactly what we don't need.
Disagree. The author has put a lot of
On 18/09/2013 16:36, Schmoo wrote:
Would you care to explain why you think that?
See the middle paragraph of my original post.
gvim
On Wed, 18 Sep 2013 17:20:28 +0100
gvim gvi...@gmail.com wrote:
Network Programming with Perl (maybe an update from Lincoln Stein)
This one I could easily cover as you'll be wanting to do it async (see
below).
Analysing Big Data with Perl
Big data generally implies noSQL or similar - perhaps
On 19 September 2013 03:04, Nicholas Clark n...@ccl4.org wrote:
Maybe everyone already feels that they know Perl well enough to blag an
interview.
Maybe an interesting, and uniquely disruptive topic for a book could be
You don't know Perl ( or something along those lines ), a book with a
On 18 Sep 2013, at 17:20, gvim gvi...@gmail.com wrote:
[...]
OK, here goes:
Your list of books mostly splits into two distinct groups. The first group are
books which are primarily about Perl technologies:
Web Development with Dancer
Web Development with Mojolicous
Object-Oriented Perl with
On 18 September 2013 18:26, Kent Fredric kentfred...@gmail.com wrote:
Maybe an interesting, and uniquely disruptive topic for a book could be
You don't know Perl ( or something along those lines ), a book with a
similar intent to Modern Perl, ... but targeted explicitly at people who
think
On 18 Sep 2013, at 18:26, Kent Fredric kentfred...@gmail.com wrote:
[...]
Maybe an interesting, and uniquely disruptive topic for a book could be
You don't know Perl ( or something along those lines ), a book with a
similar intent to Modern Perl, ... but targeted explicitly at people who
think
On 18 September 2013 18:48, Peter Corlett ab...@cabal.org.uk wrote:
The hypothetical Modern Perl Cookbook is a layering violation.
Perl Cookbook is a collection of short hints and tips on how to do simple
tasks.
Modern Perl is how to architect a large system. That's two separate topics,
and
Writing a book is fun so long as you are backed by a good team (co-authors,
editor, tech reviewer, project manager, copy editor and a mate who happens
to write dictionaries for a living spotting the copy editor's slip-ups).
From a purely financial perspective it doesn't pay well, but so long as
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