Alex,
Pear is both denser and harder than hard maple, so it would make a fine bowl
for a lute. I don't know how easily it bends, but since Mustafa says it's used
for ouds, it must bend decently. The one time I used it was for a flat-backed
instrument, so I didn't have to bend it. It took
Paul,
Apparently no one replied to the entire list, because I haven't seen
any of the negative replies. But I don't see why you can't use
cedar. Dan Larson offers cedar sound boards on his lutes. My music
teacher had a lute with a cedar soundboard and I thought it sounded
wonderful.
One other thing I've found useful when gluing up with hide glue is an
electric tacking iron, which you can buy at hobby stores. A glue
joint returns to being workable if it's warmed up, especially if you
do it right away. So if I'm gluing the ribs of a bowl together I
just slap on the
I have only a modest amount of experience, but I've been using the
192 gram strength from LMII and have only had a problem with glue
failures on the bridge. And that, I think, was due to my
inexperience in gluing on bridges, not because of the glue itself.
After a few problems I got some
I have a heated crawl space under my kitchen addition where I'm
drying a fair amount of soft maple, river birch, slippery elm, and
mulberry (which will probably only be good for firewood). I I'm
drying it in cross-stacked split quarters and I probably have more
than I will ever use. The
Santiago is right. Holly is softer than soft maple or cherry.
Tim
On Jul 3, 2009, at 10:28 AM, Santiago Ramos-Collado wrote:
Sirs, greetings. Wouldn't holly be sort of too soft wood for
making
pegs?
--- El vie 3-jul-09, dem...@suffolk.lib.ny.us
dem...@suffolk.lib.ny.us
Hi Laurence,
Since I live in a small city in the Midwestern US, the internet is a
godsend for me. I buy my soundboards and most of my specialized
lutherie tools from either Stewart-Macdonald (www.stewmac.com) or
Luthers Mercantile (www.lmii.com) in the US. Stewart-MacDonald is
actually
Hi Laurence,
I just finished cutting two roses, and I would pretty much agree with
with Richard says. I use carpenter's glue to adhere the pattern to
the underside of the soundboard (although I think next time I'll try
hide glue), and I thin the area of the rose to about 1 mm. You can
Since we had a sudden rise in temperature followed by torrential
rains, my previously dry basement now has a lot of seepage. So I
won't be gluing on braces for a while.
Tim
On Feb 11, 2009, at 6:38 PM, rel...@sbcglobal.net wrote:
- Original Message - From: rel...@sbcglobal.net
Thank you Dana. That was my point exactly and you explained it
better than I did.
I've worked in art museums for 25 years, where we are very concerned
with temperature and humidity for reasons similar to those of
luthiers. The ideal is about 68 degrees Farenheit and about 55
percent
Hi Chris,
I also would see no problem in carving the rose in a warmer (and thus
drier) room. Remember that humidity is measured is as relative
humidity: the actual moisture in the air relative to the amount of
moisture the air could hold at that temperature. For the same amount
of
Gentlemen and Ladies,
I frankly don't care what average' people would think of this
discussion. I'm fascinated and I am grateful for the knowledge and
views expressed. This kind of thing is why I have stayed with this
listserv after leaving the general lute listserv flame wars over a
Oh, it's all challenging. That's the fun. But much of it becomes
less challenging with practice.
One tip I found out on my second lute is that it might be more
tedious to make a bowl with 11 or more ribs, but it's easier to fit
them. My first lute had 9 ribs and it was harder than heck
Jon,
I've made two Greek lyres. The second one was better than the
first. You can get turtle shells here: http://
www.skullsunlimited.com/. I recommend a snapping turtle shell;
they're big enough to give you a large tympanum. The first lyre had
rough branches for the arms; I ended up
: Rob Dorsey r...@dorseymail.com
Asunto: [LUTE-BUILDER] Re: What to build.
A: 'Timothy Motz' tam...@buckeye-express.com,
dem...@suffolk.lib.ny.us
Cc: lute-buil...@cs.dartmouth.edu
Fecha: jueves, 18 diciembre, 2008, 11:44 am
Let me preface this post by saying that I consider Robert Lundberg
Someone once told me that I needed to read the book, but that no one
would really build lutes that way. Having read the book, I would
agree. I'm glad he wrote the book and I refer to it a lot, but I
wouldn't build a lute that way.
Tim Motz
On Dec 17, 2008, at 8:12 PM,
instruments is a
masterpiece. But each one has been playable, and several have a very
nice tone. And it's been fun and relaxing.
Tim
On May 31, 2008, at 12:54 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On Fri, May 30, 2008, Timothy Motz [EMAIL PROTECTED] said:
Considering that even a cheap lute
Ehud,
I'm afraid I disagree with Jon. Considering that even a cheap lute
of the southeast Asian variety is now running $400-500, buying one
sounds like an expensive way to learn what not to do. I think that,
even buying tuning pegs, materials for the lutes I've built cost
under $200;
Ehud,
I am both a new builder and a new lutenist with no previous musical
experience. Over the last several years I've built four lutes. I
built my first lute because I wanted to take lessons but couldn't
afford a professionally made instrument. I've found that I build
better
[homemade], shoulder planes), chisels and gouges
and plenty
of good scrapers. Measuring stuff - good squares, good angle gauge,
vernier,
profile gauge etc. DUST EXTRACTOR.
Look forward to your advice.
Cheers
Bill
On 09/12/2007, Timothy Motz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Hi all,
Although I am
Hi all,
Although I am not nearly in Rob's class as a builder, I too build in
a small workshop (9X9 feet) next to the laundry area in my basement.
I've accumulated power tools mainly for renovating my house, but they
are mostly benchtop sized. I have a cheap Taiwanese 14 inch bandsaw
I agree. The best way to learn how to make a lute is to make a
lute. And then make another. I'm on my fifth, and looking back at
the previous four I can see a steady progression as I got comfortable
with the process and developed my skills. I'm hoping I'll see more
of that progression
On the first lute I built (a 7 course), I followed the spacing given
in the plans, which was 12 mm between the 1st and 2nd courses and 9
mm between all the rest. I couldn't get my fingers to play anything
without hitting the next course. With the next lute, I used the
bridge and nut width for
Al,
My opinion is certainly not authoritative since I'm a newbie, but
after watching Ronn McFarlane use two footstools at last year's LSA
conference, I've tried it and found it helpful. The left one is
slightly higher than the right, and I use them with a very low seat.
But I do shift to other
be angled forward. As you see this
doesn't
work out so well. Unless you like the strings to float 10mm off the
top.
Michael Thames
www.ThamesClassicalGuitars.com
- Original Message -
From: timothy motz [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; lute@cs.dartmouth.edu;
[EMAIL PROTECTED
I would think that the neck angle for violin and cello resulted from
the high bridge needed for bowing. With a very high bridge, if you
don't angle the neck back (especially with the strings under very high
tension) you have an increasingly difficult time fretting as you move
down the neck.
Michael,
Sure it does. If the neck angles back it brings the strings closer
to paralleling the neck, assuming that the height of the nut and
bridge stay the same. That in turn means that there is a limit to
how high you can raise the action by raising the nut before the
strings actually angle
Ed,
As a newbie builder, I've actually been surprised how stiff a lute
becomes once the braced soundboard has been glued on. I have seen
some lutes in which the soundboard has bulged upward from the pull of
the strings on the bridge, but apparently scooping the bowl so that
the soundboard bends
Ed,
I know someone else who did the same thing with an Aria lute. I think
the soundboard was plywood and it de-laminated under tension from the
bridge. With a replacement spruce soundboard it became a better lute.
As you say, in that case it justified an expense that was close to the
That would partly depend on the quality of the lute and whether it
could be brought back to its original condition. If it's a piece of
junk, you would get to the break-even point fairly quickly. If it's
a fine lute by a major luthier and had wonderful action and sound,
you would probably repair
Herb,
There is more to it than that. Your description assumes that the top
of the neck is in a straight line with the soundboard. Actually, on
some lutes the neck tilts back a fraction. That brings the line of
the strings closer to parallel with the neck to make the action more
even from the
Herb,
There is more to it than that. Your description assumes that the top
of the neck is in a straight line with the soundboard. Actually, on
some lutes the neck tilts back a fraction. That brings the line of
the strings closer to parallel with the neck to make the action more
even from the
Hi Herb,
Do you use a nail file on your fingertips? I find that sometimes the
skin gets rough or the whorls on the tips get coarse and I need to
file the skin smooth. After filing I use a lubricant like bag balm
or Aquaphor to keep the skin supple. The idea is to get a clean
smooth release of
It say something about the persistence of our expectations about
musical instruments that many solid body electric guitars are quite
ostentatiously built out of wood. Somehow we expect stringed
instruments to look that way.
Tim
Original Message
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL
Derek,
I've used Ivory soap in the grooves on my nut. Same idea as beeswax.
Another reason for the non-linear tuning can be that you have excess
string wound around the peg in an irregular pattern. So that as you
turn the peg, you (in effect) have a peg with a changing diameter,
leading to
I'm had similar things happen to tablature I've downloaded in pdf
format. When I went to print them, it's come out as blank tablature.
Handy if I had needed blank tablature, but not much use if I wanted
to play that particular piece of music. I've resorted to using a
print to pdf function on my
Slightly off the topic, but is the darkening you see on the
soundboards of those two lutes (and on the Gerle lute) just
patination from age, or is there a varnish or some other tinting of
the wood?
Tim
Original Message
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED],
Göran ,
You can download the Magnatune music. You have to pay for it if you do
that, but you can download it and it's not expensive compared to buying
CDs in a music store. John lets you decide what to pay, and you can
spend as little as $5 US for an album.
When you say programs, do you
If I remember right, Michael live in New Mexico. Could the dry air
there be the reason why he has such problems with tuning in general
and gut in particular?
I'm an absolute newbie both as a player and a builder, but I have
very few problems with gut on my lute. Unless I'm playing it, most
of
The only reciato I've had was Amarone, and that was a pretty
intensely flavored red wine. Not something to go with a simple meal.
Are there white reciotos as well?
Tim
Original Message
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
Subject: RE: guitarists
Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2005
Jon,
I've gotten truly obsessive and use both kinds of straps, mainly to
reinforce the correct angle of the instrument. The neck strap balances
the instrument and keeps the neck at the right angle (up and down), the
short strap (the butt strap?) keeps the instrument angled fore-and-aft
so
Unless the Pegheds were specially made for a lute, peg length and
diameter would be a problem. The first lute I built for myself had
Schaller adjustable tension pegs (I didn't have a lathe to do my own
pegs, didn't know where to buy any lute pegs, and wasn't sure I could
fit traditional pegs
For anyone with a Palm device, there is a program called Musician's
Tools. It has a tone-emitting tuner, a metronome, and a Circle of
Fifths function. Your Palm device has to have a speaker for most of
this to work, but I loaded it on my smart phone and it's handy. Not
a substitute for a real
Thomas,
I think that most of the expense in putting out a CD comes from
marketing the CD, not in physically producing it. Judging from his
website, Ed Durbrow does professional level recording in his home. I
once had a neighbor who did the same thing (with rock music,
unfortunately). I've tried
Mantegna's use of perspective is always a bit shaky and often a bit
overdone for the sake of theater. One of his paintings shows a dead
Christ lying with feet towards the viewer. The perspective on the
bier and most of the figure is correct, but the feet are way too
small to avoid having them
Jon,
In addition to reducing the mechanical moment (I haven't used that
phrase since high school physics class), the angled peg head makes it
easier for the peg head to bear the tension of the strings. If the
peg head was straight out, as in a guitar, there would be tremendous
pull from the
Michael,
Well, that's an efficient use of the bones! Three hits: soup, dogs,
nuts. You're literally taking them from soup to nuts.
Tim
Original Message
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Pegs -bone, CAVEAT
Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2005
Jon,
I think the species name is prunus, and it includes plum, cherry, and
apricot. However, the qualities of a wood can vary from region to
region and tree to tree. The cherry I have access to is a nice wood
to work with, but not particularly hard. I don't know if European
cherry or wild
Don't look at me, I need all of mine!
Original Message
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Pegs, revisited - ebony
Date: Thu, 10 Mar 2005 08:31:28 -0700
I have a guitar made at the turn of the 19th century with
original bone
pegs,
My understanding of how an instrument is bushed' is that a tapering
cylinder (essentially a peg without a key) is glued into the peg
holes and the excess (the parts that stick outside the peg box and
the parts that run between the cheeks inside the box) are cut off.
You then have discs glued into
think you will find that Delrin is too flexible for pegs. They
would probably twist along their length as you tried to turn the peg.
Craig
Craig R. Pierpont
Another Era Lutherie
www.anotherera.com
Timothy Motz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
It did occur to me to wonder if pegs turned out of Delrin
: Pegs, revisited
Date: Mon, 7 Mar 2005 11:58:48 -0500
Timothy Motz wrote:
Craig,
You and Steve are probably right about both the friction and
flexibility. My next thought would be to insert Delrin bushings in
the peg head. I'll probably never do it, but I can't resist
tinkering with things
I
Hi Jon,
I finished my pegs this weekend. Even a small adjustment to the
template on the Vega duplicator seems to make a big difference in how
it cuts a peg. I eventually got it adjusted so that the taper of the
peg was about right. That plus a less aggressive approach to shaving
(the pegs,
Jon,
I'm not as skilled a turner as you and I'm lazy. A couple of years
ago I bought a Vega lathe duplicator for my little table-top lathe.
It follows a template made from storm door window plexiglass. So I
basically round off the stock, take the cutter into to the widest
part of the peg (the
that was down to bad turning.
Tony
- Original Message -
From: timothy motz [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; lute@cs.dartmouth.edu;
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, March 02, 2005 6:34 PM
Subject: Re: Off-center pegs
Jon,
I'm not as skilled a turner as you and I'm lazy. A couple
Hi Lutenetters,
I am in the middle of turning pegs for a new lute and I've started
having problems with them coming out of the shaver off-center,
meaning that the shaft isn't centered on the head. Obviously, the
shaft is wandering as I'm turning the peg in the shaver. This didn't
happen with
Yet another possibility is that the owner of the face might not be
the owner of the hands. It would not be uncommon for a studio
assistant to pose for most of the modeling of the figure (including
the pose holding the lute), while the portrait head would be worked
out from sketches made of the
I can get it to play on OS10.2, but the sound quality is bad. It
works much better to export the Fronimo file as a MIDI file to the
Mac desktop, then play it in iTunes.
Tim
Original Message
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED],
[EMAIL PROTECTED],
To add to Caroline's comment: It was a common working practice from
the Renaissance through at least the early 20th century for artists
to accumulate drawings and watercolor paintings in sketchbooks as
they traveled, worked on projects, etc. These sketches would be kept
as resource material to
When I tried varnished gut, I got a lot of squeaking on the strings
from my right hand, no matter how much I filed and lubricated my
fingertips. I replaced the chanterelle and 2nd course with
unvarnished gut and the squeaking went away. Is that just sloppy
right-hand technique on my part, or is
Hi Caroline,
I'm a complete beginner too and only manage a brief practice each day,
and I find that a gut chanterelle will last me for a month, easily
(usually -- I just had one break after a couple of weeks, but I think
the weather changes had something to do with that).
It's also possible to
Thanks to both Wayne and Arto. I'll dig into it.
Tim
On Saturday, December 11, 2004, at 04:11 AM, Arto Wikla wrote:
Lutenists
On Fri, 10 Dec 2004, Wayne Cripps wrote:
If you want neusidler, I have neusidler - a major chunk of one of
his instruction books. Starts out real easy!
The bit about Roosevelt ordering radars shut down is incorrect. The
radars in Hawaii on December 7, 1941 were on and the operators
reported contacts. The high command at Pearl Harbor didn't trust the
new technology and disregarded the warnings. In fairness, there had
been false radar contacts
Wether or not you performed without clothes would depend on which you
thought was your strong suite- your playing or your body. I'll keep
practicing.
But if you did perform in the nude, you could probably call it
performance art and get a grant to fund it ;-)
I don't know what's available
If I remember it right, the ancient method of making wire for
jewelry was to cut a strip of metal and twist it into a wire, not to
draw the wire through a die. There is jewelry made from wire going
as far back as the Bronze Age.
Tim
Original Message
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To:
Jon,
I've built Appalachian dulcimers and looked into their history. For
the old, truly folk-made, dulcimers, it was not uncommon for the frets
to be wire staples pounded into the fretboard beneath the treble
course. When fretwire is used, you make the slot for it by cutting a
kerf across
Tony,
I wouldn't want to imagine what a wax-cylinder drive would look like.
Talk about legacy equipment! I doubt that it would fit in the extra
drive bay on a PC. And anyway, the memory capacity just wouldn't
compare with a CD or even a Zip drive.
Seriously though, there are companies (almost
-Original Message-
From: Gernot Hilger [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Sunday, November 07, 2004 3:25 PM
To: Timothy Motz
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Craig Robert Pierpont
Subject: Re: Lute Ribs
Tim,
I scanned a picture from Garrett Hack's Handplane Book. Hope they
forgive me the copyright
Ed,
When I built my present lute I took the plans for a 7-course and
spaced 6 courses out over the same bridge and nut width. I find it
more comfortable than the normal spacing. As a beginner, with the
normal spacing I found it very difficult to feel the courses as
courses and not as 11
Hi Everyone,
I have made a couple of cases for lutes out of Sintra, which is PVC
sheeting normally used for things like outdoor signage. It can be
heat-formed using a hot air gun of the sort used for stripping paint.
The process is similar to what Larry Brown does for his cases, except
Jon,
If the pictures on the RWC website are an indication of what you get
in the kit, you are not much better off than doing it from scratch on
your own. It looks like the ribs are not bent nor have their edges
been planed to the right bevel to join properly. Shaping the neck
takes about 30
If the soundboard is split but it's not affecting the sound, you may
not need to have it fixed. I have been told that Christopher Wilson
has a lute with a split soundboard that he hasn't had repaired
because he doesn't want to change the sound.
Tim Motz
Original Message
From:
Mike,
I would say, to start with, keep it in its case unless you are
playing it. Keep it away from heat sources, which would include not
leaving it in a window or a hot car in the summer.
The splitting is caused by the wood of the soundboard shrinking
because it's too dry. Dryness is mainly a
Bill,
I don't think your question about the photos vs. the actual incidents
carries much weight. The world was not really stirred against the
Holocaust until photos and newsreels were taken by Allied forces
liberating the camps. It was known for years before that the Nazis
were moving trainloads
In the US, you can buy in auto supply stores what is alleged to be
chamois leather, to be used in polishing cars. I don't think the
leather came from anywhere in the vicinity of a chamois, but it is
leather with a slight nap and it does help with slipping.
One thing I found with straps is that a
There's a wonderful scene in Woody Allen's movie Annie Hall in which
Diane Keaton, doing her best on her first night singing in a bar, is
putting up with practically the same scenario. Perhaps all that's
needed for historical verisimilitude is for lutenists to do more bar
gigs.
Tim
On
David,
My son started lessons in a classical guitar program called
Childbloom when he was 8. He's now 16 and has stayed with it pretty
much without the traditional nagging from his parents about doing his
practicing. And his teacher thinks he's matured into a pretty good
guitarist. He's no
I just finished re-fretting a lute made in 1978 that still had its
original pegs. They were a little over-lubricated and one or two had
gone a little out of round, but basically they were still working
well. They were black, but I think they were dyed rather than made
out of ebony.
So I guess
Candace,
I agree with your point about soft- versus hard-sided cases, but I
have to say that I would be very reluctant to turn a lute over to a
baggage handler in most of the hard-sided carry cases I've seen, even
the high-end ones. They're okay for carrying, but they're not really
designed for
Yuck! Boy, I wouldn't bid on that one. Maybe the frame is 17th
century, but I doubt that the painting is. I think that a 17th
century artist would have had a better idea of what a lute looked
like. How about early 20th century? Could the lute be one of the
wandervogel lute-guitars?
Tim
Also, Stewart-MacDonald carries guitar nuts in a number of different
materials; some of them are supposed to be self-lubricating. I don't
think they come in lengths that would fit anything larger than a 7
course lute, though.
Tim
On Friday, January 23, 2004, at 05:29 PM, Leonard Williams
For me its the other way around. I keep doing the stretching
exercises that my physical therapist prescribed so that I can sit and
play without pain. Otherwise, when I tense up (especially during
lessons, when I'm really concentrating) I can only go for a few
minutes before the ache sets in.
Jon,
One advantage of gut frets is that they are slightly elastic, allowing
them to be tied onto the tapering neck above their final location.
They are then inched down to the proper place and are kept in place by
the elasticity of the gut, as long as they don't dry out. I think the
cheap
I'm getting more reluctant to use tropical hardwoods for health
reasons. I've had strong allergic reactions to sawdust from even
domestic hardwoods like oak, so I'm real careful when using tropical
hardwoods. I've only used small amounts, for pegs and bridges, and I
keep an air cleaner running,
Dear Denys and Michael,
I'm old enough to find it fascinating that we are having a conversation
while sitting in Australia, England, and the American Midwest, thanks
to Wayne and the lutenet.
I suppose part of the answer to what you both are saying is for
craftspeople to find and patronize
Okay, I'll admit that I'm too lazy to try the experiment myself. I'll
take everyone's word for it. But what, then, is the effect of the
lattice-like rose on the sound of a lute? Is it simply a combination
of the areas of all of the openings, or is more happening? Does
something different
Vance,
I've been on the lute list serve for only a few months, and have been
surprised by the vituperative nature of some of the messages that have
been posted. I've been on the verge of taking myself off the list
several times, because I find much of the heated discussion pointless
and a
Hi Herb,
There aren't too many places on a lute where you could use screws.
The soundboard and the ribs of the back are about 1/16 inch thick,
and the ribs are joined edge-to-edge with only a reinforcement of
paper or parchment strips on the inside. There is no substantial
thickening of the ribs
Hi Herb,
I don't think there are any playable old (i.e. Renaissance) lutes.
Over time (centuries, I mean) when stored in normal room conditions,
the wood would dry out and become brittle and glue joints would
weaken. Since both wood and hide glue are organic materials, they
are also subject to
Jon,
As a fellow beginner, I have to say that the tied frets are not a
problem at all. If they are gut (i.e. gut strings that have been tied
around the neck) they are slightly elastic and grip the neck quite
firmly if they have been tied on tightly above the actual location of
the fret and
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