[LUTE] Theorbo/prop; youtube solves mystery, Thanks.

2008-02-02 Thread Michael Bocchicchio
Thanks for the youtube links. I didn't remember that front shot of the instrument from 1991 (?). It is obviously an attiorbato being fake played by an actor. After all these years, the fingering is even more distracting than I remember.--Especially St. Colombe in that scene. I guess Mr. Sovall

[LUTE] Re: Theorbo/prop; youtube solves mystery, Thanks.

2008-02-02 Thread Tony Chalkley
be able to confirm this. - Original Message - From: Michael Bocchicchio [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Saturday, February 02, 2008 9:07 AM Subject: [LUTE] Theorbo/prop; youtube solves mystery, Thanks. Thanks for the youtube links. I didn't remember that front shot

[LUTE] Re: G Theorbo or movie prop+Jean-Marie Poirier?

2008-02-02 Thread Anthony Hind
attiorbato, in sync. I don't think it's Lislevand, because he plays left-handed (unlike the theorbo player in the orchestra scenes). I did not think that Lislevand plays left handed, or are you referring to the player in the movie? It does not appear anything like Lislevand

[LUTE] Re: G Theorbo or movie prop+Jean-Marie Poirier?

2008-02-02 Thread Jean-Marie Poirier
I think I had problems sending this message, sorry if it is duplicated... Thanks Tony, Anthony and Lino for the kind words and link to my webpage. Don't be mistaken : Lino is also a talented player, the only thing is he is right-handed; nobody's perfect... ;-))) ! Well, Tony, if I remember well

[LUTE] Re: Theorbo in G? Plus some guidelines

2008-02-02 Thread Martyn Hodgson
Martyn Hodgson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Date: Sat, 2 Feb 2008 12:50:27 + (GMT) From: Martyn Hodgson [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [LUTE] Re: Theorbo in G? Plus some guidelines To: howard posner [EMAIL PROTECTED] Thanks for this; I now better understand your position with which

[LUTE] Re: Theorbo in G? Plus some guidelines

2008-02-02 Thread howard posner
Martyn Hodgson wrote: In subsequent messages I gave more information (you must have missed it): - how such small instruments were strung (just top course an octave down or at a much higher nominal pitch eg D), - early written evidence of theorbo sizes, - examples of solo music

[LUTE] Re: G Theorbo or movie prop?

2008-02-02 Thread Are Vidar Boye Hansen
All that said, the answer to the original question is that the lute player is really playing a real liuto attiorbato, in sync. I don't think it's Lislevand, because he plays left-handed Ehm... No, he doesnt... But he does play a very small right-handed theorbo. The reason he chose a small

[LUTE] Re: Theorbo in G? Plus some guidelines

2008-02-02 Thread howard posner
I have made the point before that we would expect an instrument designed to be played at AF6 to have strings about 83% the length of an instrument designed to be played at A=390. If so, all other things being equal, you'd expect that a 76cm instrument designed for AF5 to be tuned the same

[LUTE] Re: Theorbo in G? Plus some guidelines

2008-02-01 Thread howard posner
or another on the actual question. First, it's grounded in the assumption that most powerful sound is the governing consideration in stringing a theorbo. This could hardly have been universally true historically. Why even build a double-strung theorbo if loudness is all you want? Yet

[LUTE] G Theorbo or movie prop?

2008-02-01 Thread Michael Bocchicchio
Does anyone remember the instrument used in the movie All the Mornings of the World to accompany the two girls singing Un Jeune Fillette? The liner notes on the disc say R. Lislevand- theorbo. It has been some years since I saw the movie, but I remember marveling at this instrument having

[LUTE] Re: G Theorbo or movie prop?

2008-02-01 Thread Lisa Sass
the two girls singing Un Jeune Fillette? The liner notes on the disc say R. Lislevand- theorbo. It has been some years since I saw the movie, but I remember marveling at this instrument having a very short neck extension and strangely attached/placed upper peg box. At the time, I summed it up

[LUTE] Re: G Theorbo or movie prop?

2008-02-01 Thread Sean Smith
. Lislevand- theorbo. It has been some years since I saw the movie, but I remember marveling at this instrument having a very short neck extension and strangely attached/placed upper peg box. At the time, I summed it up to an unfamiliar French variation of the English theorbo, or a pure Hollywood

[LUTE] Re: G Theorbo or movie prop?

2008-02-01 Thread howard posner
to the original question is that the lute player is really playing a real liuto attiorbato, in sync. I don't think it's Lislevand, because he plays left-handed (unlike the theorbo player in the orchestra scenes). I'm sure one of the European correspondents remembers his name. An Italian lute

[LUTE] Re: G Theorbo or movie prop?

2008-02-01 Thread Edward Martin
At 10:25 PM 2/1/2008 -0800, howard posner wrote: All that said, the answer to the original question is that the lute player is really playing a real liuto attiorbato, in sync. I don't think it's Lislevand, because he plays left-handed (unlike the theorbo player in the orchestra scenes). I did

[LUTE] Re: G Theorbo or movie prop?

2008-02-01 Thread Lino Messina - Cie Finis Africae
07:25 À : Lute Net Objet : [LUTE] Re: G Theorbo or movie prop? On Feb 1, 2008, at 8:43 PM, Sean Smith wrote: The movie itself didn't sync up because the actors didn't play the instruments we heard. I confess I watched most of the movie with my eyes closed. True, the on-camera playing would

[LUTE] Re: Theorbo in G? Plus some guidelines

2008-01-31 Thread Martyn Hodgson
You can easily work it out yourself from what I've told you David Tayler [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: OK, I'm asking, how would you, specifically, tune the theorbos I just mentioned? Atton, Ecco, Hoess, Kaiser, Aman, Koch, Langenwalder, Attore, Mascotto, Stehelin, Greiff, Tieffenbrucker dt At

[LUTE] Re: Theorbo in G? Plus some guidelines

2008-01-31 Thread LGS-Europe
To the benefit of those not interested in a peeing contest but in theories on theorbo stringing, as I am, and not in the happy possesion of a list of historical theorbos stating string length and setup, here's what the guys are talking about (info taken from one of the Pohlmanns lying around

[LUTE] theorbo size

2008-01-31 Thread Nigel Solomon
Just out of interest, what size chitaronne do you think Piccinini was playing when he wrote his pieces? I used to have a 92cm chitaronne and I can tell you not many of those pieces are playable on a monster like that. The theorbo I have now measures 85 cm and even then a lot of the pieces

[LUTE] Re: Theorbo in G? Plus some guidelines

2008-01-31 Thread Martyn Hodgson
A or G tuned but with only the first course tuned an octave down ie highest course is the second at e for an A theorbo or d for a G theorbo; OR with first two courses an octave down but at a higher nominal pitch eg in D like Talbot MS French lesser theorboe for lessons; note that in this case

[LUTE] Re: theorbo size

2008-01-31 Thread chriswilke
of Italian solo music to be quite technically challening even on my small theorbo (76cm) which I currently have inauthentically tuned in A. And then there's always the tiorbino tuned an octave higher than the regular theorbo... Only Castaldi published for this, but I suppose it could have been in wider use

[LUTE] Re: Theorbo in G? Plus some guidelines

2008-01-31 Thread Joseph Mayes
Collected wisdom I, for one, am grateful for the information on theorbo tuning and sizes. I hope the discussion does not get too prickly to continue - Please, swallow your rancor. Joseph Mayes On 1/31/08 8:36 AM, Martyn Hodgson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I've already very clearly

[LUTE] Re: Theorbo in G? Plus some guidelines

2008-01-31 Thread LGS-Europe
tuned but with only the first course tuned an octave down ie highest course is the second at e for an A theorbo or d for a G theorbo; OR with first two courses an octave down but at a higher nominal pitch eg in D like Talbot MS French lesser theorboe for lessons; note that in this case

[LUTE] Re: Theorbo in G? Plus some guidelines

2008-01-31 Thread Jerzy Zak
Hm..., how many of you are playing continuo on a theorbo in 'd', if it's so obvoius? Jurek ___ On 2008-01-31, at 17:25, LGS-Europe wrote: I've already very clearly explained how small theorboes (ie up to low 80s) were tuned (and even given sources for tablature

[LUTE] Re: Theorbo in G? Plus some guidelines

2008-01-31 Thread howard posner
connecting any particular theorbo with any particular stringing, tuning or nominal pitch, though the Talbot ms does contain measurements that are subject to varying interpretations. That's actually more information than was contained in Martyn's posts on the subject (which seemed to consist

[LUTE] Re: Theorbo in G? Plus some guidelines

2008-01-31 Thread LGS-Europe
Hm..., how many of you are playing continuo on a theorbo in 'd', if it's so obvoius? I don't. I keep mine (76cm) in a, first two courses down. All gut, 415 to 466 tested. I don't see the point why not. I haven't seen valid and or historical arguments against it. It would work in d too, I'm

[LUTE] Re: Theorbo in G? Plus some guidelines

2008-01-31 Thread howard posner
On Jan 31, 2008, at 9:56 AM, Jerzy Zak wrote: I'm interested how one manages with the bass notes below the _d_ on the 6th course of the instrument tuned in 'd'. This is more or less one third of the statistical bass notes in an everage part to play (depending of course on period and

[LUTE] Re: Theorbo in G? Plus some guidelines

2008-01-31 Thread Jerzy Zak
On 2008-01-31, at 18:20, LGS-Europe wrote: Hm..., how many of you are playing continuo on a theorbo in 'd', if it's so obvoius? I don't. I keep mine (76cm) in a, first two courses down. All gut, 415 to 466 tested. I don't see the point why not. I haven't seen valid and or historical

[LUTE] Re: Theorbo in G? Plus some guidelines

2008-01-31 Thread howard posner
On Jan 31, 2008, at 8:56 AM, Jerzy Zak wrote: Hm..., how many of you are playing continuo on a theorbo in 'd', if it's so obvoius? I'm not sure what the it in your question is. When Ensemble Chanterelle consisted of Sally Sanford, Cathy Liddell and Kevin Mason, their basic setup was voice

[LUTE] Re: Theorbo in G? Plus some guidelines

2008-01-31 Thread Are Vidar Boye Hansen
A small price to pay for being able to play a three-note chord over middle C in first position? That's the point and the most promising bit. However the price seems to me not small, indeed, and therefore my quest for someone maybe experienced. Play an archlute! ;-) Are To get on or off

[LUTE] Re: Theorbo in G? Plus some guidelines

2008-01-31 Thread LGS-Europe
it for continuo too, but that's another starting point. If you're after one continuo theorbo with two first strings down, a or g seems more practical. David To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Theorbo in G? Plus some guidelines

2008-01-31 Thread Jerzy Zak
On 2008-01-31, at 20:42, Are Vidar Boye Hansen wrote: A small price to pay for being able to play a three-note chord over middle C in first position? That's the point and the most promising bit. However the price seems to me not small, indeed, and therefore my quest for someone maybe

[LUTE] Re: Theorbo in G? Plus some guidelines

2008-01-31 Thread Jerzy Zak
Dear Howard, On 2008-01-31, at 18:59, howard posner wrote: On Jan 31, 2008, at 8:56 AM, Jerzy Zak wrote: Hm..., how many of you are playing continuo on a theorbo in 'd', if it's so obvoius? I'm not sure what the it in your question is. Martyn Hodgson in his recent reply stated quite

[LUTE] Re: Theorbo in G? Plus some guidelines

2008-01-31 Thread LGS-Europe
have one, I'm sure you'll use it for continuo too, but that's another starting point. If you're after one continuo theorbo with two first strings down, a or g seems more practical. David To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Theorbo in G? Plus some guidelines

2008-01-30 Thread David Tayler
OK, I'm asking, how would you, specifically, tune the theorbos I just mentioned? Atton, Ecco, Hoess, Kaiser, Aman, Koch, Langenwalder, Attore, Mascotto, Stehelin, Greiff, Tieffenbrucker dt At 12:32 AM 1/30/2008, you wrote: you replied to it David Tayler [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I must have

[LUTE] Theorbo stringing

2008-01-30 Thread Stewart McCoy
Dear Nigel, My 14-course theorbo in A has eight pegs for short strings, and eight pegs for long strings. This means I can string it 6/8, 7/7, or 8/6. I used to have it 7/7, but a broken string made me change to eight short and six long, and I've stayed that way ever since. Even though I could

[LUTE] Re: Theorbo stringing

2008-01-30 Thread howard posner
On Jan 30, 2008, at 4:21 PM, Stewart McCoy wrote: I can string it 6/8, 7/7, or 8/6. I used to have it 7/7, but a broken string made me change to eight short and six long, and I've stayed that way ever since. Even though I could have both a low F and a stopped low F# available, I rarely

[LUTE] Re: Theorbo stringing

2008-01-30 Thread chriswilke
download free from the internet Fleury's treatise on playing the theorbo, published in 1660. He clearly had six short strings on his theorbo. On page 8 he gives a chromatic scale up from low F to the D above middle C. Above each note of the scale he gives the appropriate chord in tablature. His

[LUTE] Re: Theorbo Question

2008-01-29 Thread Martyn Hodgson
Mace, Wilson MH David Rastall [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If the solo theorbo, being by definition an instrument of shorter playing length, is known to have been tuned with only the first course in re-entrant tuning, presumably there was some amount of solo repertoire for that tuning

[LUTE] Re: Theorbo in G? Plus some guidelines

2008-01-29 Thread Martyn Hodgson
the theorbo, a website is great. Maybe start with a list of all the different sizes, Pohlmann could use an update. The list will be large, and diverse, or it will be incomplete. Of what use is a preselected list for study? As for whether I can handle a larger instrument, well, I await the Lauten Werfen

[LUTE] Re: Theorbo in G? Plus some guidelines

2008-01-29 Thread David Tayler
How were they tuned? dt At 12:42 AM 1/29/2008, you wrote: As very carefully explained earlier, theorbos of your recommended size existed but not tuned as you believe. MH To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Theorbo in G? Plus some guidelines

2008-01-29 Thread Martyn Hodgson
see earlier David Tayler [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: How were they tuned? dt At 12:42 AM 1/29/2008, you wrote: As very carefully explained earlier, theorbos of your recommended size existed but not tuned as you believe. MH To get on or off this list see list information at

[LUTE] Re: Theorbo in G? Plus some guidelines

2008-01-29 Thread chriswilke
they are not - unless the composer is aiming for a special effect. Personally, my modern ears don't find such a sudden jump too objectionable but I can't imagine that baroque listeners wouldn't find it extremely disturbing. Suffice it to say that, without some sort of adaption of the re-entrant theorbo tuning

[LUTE] Re: Theorbo in G? Plus some guidelines

2008-01-29 Thread David Tayler
I must have missed that post, if you can tell me how the following instruments were tuned Atton, Ecco, Hoess, Kaiser, Aman, Koch, Langenwalder, Attore, Mascotto, Stehelin, Greiff, Tieffenbrucker Then I can do some analysis. dt At 05:03 AM 1/29/2008, you wrote: see earlier David Tayler

[LUTE] Re: Theorbo in G? Plus some guidelines

2008-01-28 Thread Martyn Hodgson
in the high 80s to low 90s. Clearly, with modern overwound strings, 'toy' theorboes are possible but that is insufficient reason for suggesting them as the first choice MH David Tayler [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You can ALWAYS change the strings on a theorbo, shortening the neck, etc

[LUTE] Re: Theorbo in G? Plus some guidelines

2008-01-28 Thread Martyn Hodgson
used the term toy theorbo. That doesn't mean it isn't inappropriate or short-sighted. Much impressive scholarly work has been done by Lynda and others. Unfortunately, for the question of stringing and pitch, so much of what we have to go on is conjecture of gut's capabilities based upon our modern

[LUTE] Re: Theorbo in G? Plus some guidelines

2008-01-28 Thread chriswilke
Martyn, Yes, I know many have used the term toy theorbo. That doesn't mean it isn't inappropriate or short-sighted. Much impressive scholarly work has been done by Lynda and others. Unfortunately, for the question of stringing and pitch, so much of what we have to go

[LUTE] Re: Theorbo in G? Plus some guidelines

2008-01-28 Thread Daniel Shoskes
You are one to talk. Do you honestly think Straube wore jeans when he performed??? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p5Eal16Wa3A DS On Jan 28, 2008, at 8:33 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: We may eventually be able to uncover the truth, but we may also never know. The situation is confusing

[LUTE] Re: Theorbo in G? Plus some guidelines

2008-01-28 Thread Benjamin Narvey
of these different types of theorbos were tuned is simply untenable as of now. There may not have even been - and probably wasn't - such a thing as THE theorbo back in the day. We may eventually be able to uncover the truth, but we may also never know. The situation is confusing enough without the ol' Early

[LUTE] Re: Theorbo in G? Plus some guidelines

2008-01-28 Thread chriswilke
pitch all of these different types of theorbos were tuned is simply untenable as of now. There may not have even been - and probably wasn't - such a thing as THE theorbo back in the day. We may eventually be able to uncover the truth, but we may also never know. The situation is confusing enough

[LUTE] Re: Theorbo in G? Plus some guidelines

2008-01-28 Thread Martyn Hodgson
the large theorbo he reports is smaller than generally reckoned - how do you conclude this? Smaller theorbos did, of course, exist but with the first course an octave down as also commonly used throughout the 17thC. I'd refer you to Lynda Sayce's website where she discusses the matter

[LUTE] Re: Theorbo in G? Plus some guidelines

2008-01-28 Thread David Tayler
, you might go for a lighter one. Would an older historical player have felt the same? I think if one wants to help promote the theorbo, a website is great. Maybe start with a list of all the different sizes, Pohlmann could use an update. The list will be large, and diverse

[LUTE] Re: Theorbo in G?

2008-01-28 Thread howard posner
OK, gang: inquiring minds want to know. Is there any historical source that correlates the size of a theorbo with pitch, or tuning, or stringing (single/double courses, single/ double re-entrant)? On Jan 28, 2008, at 5:44 AM, Martyn Hodgson wrote: I'm merely pointing out that his advice

[LUTE] Re: Theorbo in G? Plus some guidelines

2008-01-28 Thread Martyn Hodgson
been - and probably wasn't - such a thing as THE theorbo back in the day. We may eventually be able to uncover the truth, but we may also never know. The situation is confusing enough without the ol' Early Music Police showing up on the scene. ;-) Chris

[LUTE] Theorbo Question

2008-01-28 Thread David Rastall
If the solo theorbo, being by definition an instrument of shorter playing length, is known to have been tuned with only the first course in re-entrant tuning, presumably there was some amount of solo repertoire for that tuning. Where can it be found? The only solo repertoire I know

[LUTE] Re: Theorbo Question

2008-01-28 Thread David Tayler
As far as reentrant goes, a notch away in size is also a notch in pitch, so a size smaller can be tuned in double reentrant a tone higher. So that is really not an issue. I use double for most solo pieces, but some sound persuasive in single. My solo instrument at 465 in A is too high for

[LUTE] Re: Theorbo in G?

2008-01-27 Thread Roland Hayes
gm not nearly as bad as it seems on an A theorbo. Peri also wrote a lot in g and G maj. and his pieces work well too. Even F is okay once you figure out how to stay away from the Bb barr chord on the first fret. Reentrant tuning helps . R. From: Ed

[LUTE] Theorbo in G? Plus some guidelines

2008-01-27 Thread David Tayler
You can ALWAYS change the strings on a theorbo, shortening the neck, etc big problem. Make sure you have enough pegs and holes and grooves to string it and tune it anyway you want! Guidelines (highly subjective, of course) It should fall between these very general guidelines String length 77-82

[LUTE] Re: Theorbo in G?

2008-01-26 Thread Ed Durbrow
But look at how many pieces are in the key of F for a nominal G Renaissance lute. I would expect something close to the same proportions transposed up a tone for a theorbo in A. cheers, On Jan 16, 2008, at 2:07 AM, Rob wrote: I have a theorbo being made now by Malcolm Prior for delivery

[LUTE] Re: Theorbo in G?

2008-01-21 Thread David Tayler
This is a very interesting question that has several answers: practical, modern, professional historical. The griffen element is subjective, of course. 1. Professional. As a professional, you need several theorbos. For my work, I require at least four. Therefore, the theorbo in G at 465

[LUTE] Re: Theorbo in G?

2008-01-21 Thread David Tayler
Paintings Engravings exist, but the single strung thing is mainly modern guitar practice. There is also a hybrid style used quite a bit nowadays that has guitar style theorbo (heavy single strings, etc) plus semi historical technique. Zero is an awfully big number, but it freezes well. dt

[LUTE] Re: Theorbo in G?

2008-01-18 Thread Martyn Hodgson
I very much agree and I deprecate the various lute societies making editions of Italian music in French tablature when they ought to be encouraging people to read the latter - it's really not difficult. MH Are Vidar Boye Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: As you imply: I guess it's

[LUTE] Re: Kapsberger's lute (was: banchieri and the Theorbo in G)

2008-01-17 Thread G. Crona
, January 17, 2008 12:01 AM Subject: [LUTE] Re: Kapsberger's lute (was: banchieri and the Theorbo in G) be that the lute in question here actually is a 10/11-corse liuto attiorbato? If that means, 1st and 2nd courses normal (like on the lute), the answer is no. All pieces of Libro prima require 1st

[LUTE] Re: Theorbo in G?

2008-01-17 Thread Are Vidar Boye Hansen
As you imply: I guess it's because they can't be bothered to learn to read on an A instrument A lot of people prefer to work in those areas they're most familiar with. We have modern editions of Italian music in French tablature, because French tab is the one that a lot of people feel

[LUTE] Re: Kapsberger's lute (was: banchieri and the Theorbo in G)

2008-01-17 Thread Are Vidar Boye Hansen
I had a quick look through the libro primo di lauto, but could not find any indication of more than 10 courses. You must be mixing up the primo di chitarone. No, the person who told me was very specific that it was the libro primo di lauto, and that this is the first source for 11-course

[LUTE] Re: Theorbo in G?

2008-01-17 Thread G. Crona
What do you call a tablature polyglot? A tablyglot? G. - Original Message - From: Are Vidar Boye Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2008 6:45 PM Subject: [LUTE] Re: Theorbo in G? As you imply: I guess it's because they can't be bothered

[LUTE] Re: Kapsberger's lute (was: banchieri and the Theorbo in G)

2008-01-17 Thread G. Crona
and the Theorbo in G) I had a quick look through the libro primo di lauto, but could not find any indication of more than 10 courses. You must be mixing up the primo di chitarone. No, the person who told me was very specific that it was the libro primo di lauto, and that this is the first source

[LUTE] Re: Kapsberger's lute (was: banchieri and the Theorbo in G)

2008-01-17 Thread G. Crona
Corrente 7 - Original Message - From: Are Vidar Boye Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2008 8:02 PM Subject: [LUTE] Re: Kapsberger's lute (was: banchieri and the Theorbo in G) Yeah, and he was probably right! On second check, page 29 ms

[LUTE] Re: Kapsberger's lute (was: banchieri and the Theorbo in G)

2008-01-17 Thread Are Vidar Boye Hansen
Yeah, and he was probably right! On second check, page 29 ms. 27 shows an 11th course? !? Which piece? Are To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Kapsberger's lute (was: banchieri and the Theorbo in G)

2008-01-17 Thread G. Crona
: [LUTE] Re: Kapsberger's lute (was: banchieri and the Theorbo in G) Corrente 7 - Original Message - From: Are Vidar Boye Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2008 8:02 PM Subject: [LUTE] Re: Kapsberger's lute (was: banchieri and the Theorbo

[LUTE] Re: banchieri and the Theorbo in G

2008-01-16 Thread LGS-Europe
Unfortunately my work it's in Italian only. It was written 12 years ago and I'm now working again on it, for a printed version. What you read is just a draft copy. Pretty good for a draft copy, I'd say. Thank you for sharing this with us. David David van Ooijen

[LUTE] Re: banchieri and the Theorbo in G

2008-01-16 Thread Rob
for a moment that his bass lines might actually be what he played on his theorbo, he seems to have had a 10c theorbo, as with Kapsberger's first book, possibly a large bass lute in A with the first two courses down an octave. Did Banchieri utilize more than ten courses? Is it possible he had

[LUTE] Re: banchieri and the Theorbo in G

2008-01-16 Thread dc
[EMAIL PROTECTED] écrit: Banchieri in his Conclusioni nel suono dell'organo (Bologna 1609), p. 59, gives a G tuning for the chitarrone, with the reentrant tuning for the first string only. From my homepage (under 'docs tab') you can download a pdf copy of my dissertation about the chitarrone

[LUTE] Re: banchieri and the Theorbo in G

2008-01-16 Thread Are Vidar Boye Hansen
I'm wondering how many of the early publications for a 'theorbo' (various spellings) or chitarrone were actually for large 10c bass lutes with re-entrant tunings? I wonder about this too! As far as I know, Kapsberger's Libro primo for chitarrone is for a 10-course instrument. Are PS: I

[LUTE] banchieri and the Theorbo in G

2008-01-16 Thread tiorba
I'm wondering how many of the early publications for a 'theorbo' (various spellings) or chitarrone were actually for large 10c bass lutes with re-entrant tunings? I wonder about this too! As far as I know, Kapsberger's Libro primo for chitarrone is for a 10-course instrument. You can find

[LUTE] Re: Theorbo in G?

2008-01-16 Thread David Rastall
that the theorbo isn't just a big lute. The lute list's favorite riddle: when is a lute not a lute? If I see theorbos in general as continuo-lutes, and the large theorbos as double-bass lutes, what am I failing to appreciate? Am I missing something? David R [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To get

[LUTE] Re: Theorbo in G?

2008-01-16 Thread howard posner
On Jan 15, 2008, at 1:54 PM, Rob wrote: so why do people choose to tune to G? Is it purely because they already think 'in G', or is there another reason? G tuning (with the second course at lute pitch) seems to have been common in England. Mace wrote that the theorbo was just a big lute

[LUTE] Kapseberger's lute (was: banchieri and the Theorbo in G)

2008-01-16 Thread Are Vidar Boye Hansen
I'm wondering how many of the early publications for a 'theorbo' (various spellings) or chitarrone were actually for large 10c bass lutes with re-entrant tunings? I wonder about this too! As far as I know, Kapsberger's Libro primo for chitarrone is for a 10-course instrument. You can

[LUTE] Re: Kapseberger's lute (was: banchieri and the Theorbo in G)

2008-01-16 Thread Mathias Rösel
Are Vidar Boye Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] schrieb: be that the lute in question here actually is a 10/11-corse liuto attiorbato? If that means, 1st and 2nd courses normal (like on the lute), the answer is no. All pieces of Libro prima require 1st and 2nd courses down the octave. (Nevertheless,

[LUTE] Re: Kapsberger's lute (was: banchieri and the Theorbo in G)

2008-01-16 Thread Are Vidar Boye Hansen
be that the lute in question here actually is a 10/11-corse liuto attiorbato? If that means, 1st and 2nd courses normal (like on the lute), the answer is no. All pieces of Libro prima require 1st and 2nd courses down the octave. (Nevertheless, one might want to discuss one or another

[LUTE] Re: Theorbo in G?

2008-01-15 Thread Martyn Hodgson
Rob, I play theorbo more than anything (the only instrument which seems to pay and you do get a lot of variety) - mine is in A at 93cm. In fact G is a very strong key (possibly with D the strongest) on the A theorbo - quite a few open strings and the relative keys are also strong

[LUTE] banchieri and the Theorbo in G

2008-01-15 Thread tiorba
Banchieri in his Conclusioni nel suono dell'organo (Bologna 1609), p. 59, gives a G tuning for the chitarrone, with the reentrant tuning for the first string only. From my homepage (under 'docs tab') you can download a pdf copy of my dissertation about the chitarrone and the continuo in

[LUTE] Re: Theorbo in G?

2008-01-15 Thread David Rastall
On Jan 15, 2008, at 4:54 PM, Rob wrote: ...so why do people choose to tune to G? Is it purely because they already think 'in G', or is there another reason? That's the reason I would do it. I spent so long playing renaissance lute that I think in G. Also the first methods I found for

[LUTE] Re: banchieri and the Theorbo in G

2008-01-15 Thread wikla
Diego wrote: .. From my homepage (under 'docs tab') you can download a pdf copy of my dissertation about the chitarrone and the continuo in Italy. .. Here's the link: www.diegocantalupi.it/tesi.pdf Mille grazie Diego! Molto interessante! Ciao, Arto To get on or off this list see list

[LUTE] Re: Small French theorbo in D - evidence?

2008-01-08 Thread Martyn Hodgson
also says ' The lesser Theorbo (fitt for lessons [solos?]) carryes the same number of ranks (courses) and Strings with F. Theorbo and is 4 notes higher all the way. Plus other helpful observations. He also confirms the tuning as in d. There is some evidence from M Crevecoeur quoted by Talbot

[LUTE] Re: Small French theorbo in D - evidence?

2008-01-08 Thread Rob
Many thanks, Martyn. Nothing there to convince me either that it was commonplace for French theorbo music or for de Visee. Cheers, Rob www.rmguitar.info -Original Message- From: Martyn Hodgson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 08 January 2008 08:09 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; 'Lute Net

[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: theorbo music sources

2007-12-12 Thread Rob
Jurek, You should ask Lynda Sayce: www.theorbo.com Rob www.rmguitar.info -Original Message- From: Jerzy Zak [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 12 December 2007 19:28 To: Barocklautenliste Lutelist' Subject: [BAROQUE-LUTE] theorbo music sources Dear List, I know, the Christian

[LUTE] Re: Theorbo nails

2007-12-12 Thread Martyn Hodgson
From what Weiss writes (and thanks for the quote Mathias - is it complete?), I infer that he's saying he is obliged to use nails on the theorbo to produce the volume/edge required but, because he doesn't mention doing so on the lute, he didn't on the lute. Incidentally. I suspect (again

[LUTE] Re: RE THEORBO NAILS + Topic

2007-12-12 Thread Anthony Hind
message sounds about right to my non specialist ears, having never played the theorbo. Regards Anthony Le 12 déc. 07 à 14:56, Joseph Mayes a écrit : I think this might be a case of front-end loading. That is: looking at data from an established point of view - to whit: Weiss hints that he used

[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Theorbo

2007-12-08 Thread T. Diehl-Peshkur
PROTECTED] Date: Sat, 8 Dec 2007 16:58:53 - To: baroque-lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Subject: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Theorbo Hi Theo, Some confusion here. Assuming de Visee used the small theorbo, it would be strung in the old tuning but with both the first and second courses down an octave AND the whole

[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Theorbo

2007-12-08 Thread Rob
I think there are more theorbo players on the main lute list, Theo, so you might get more feedback there. Everyone is different, of course, and what works for me might not work for you. I found the larger one easier in every respect - musically and physically. Rob www.rmguitar.info

[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Theorbo

2007-12-08 Thread howard posner
Music written for a big instrument tends to take the size into account. There aren't a lot of big left-hand stretches in the Italian theorbo music I've played. I don't know much about the French repertoire. On Dec 8, 2007, at 9:04 AM, T. Diehl-Peshkur wrote: Interesting. This is all new

[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Theorbo

2007-12-08 Thread Rob
theorbe de pieces. Rob www.rmguitar.info -Original Message- From: T. Diehl-Peshkur [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 08 December 2007 15:24 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Theorbo I had a request to all the performers/teachers among you here. Any help would be appreciated. I

[BAROQUE-LUTE] Theorbo

2007-12-08 Thread T. Diehl-Peshkur
I had a request to all the performers/teachers among you here. Any help would be appreciated. I am on a waiting list for a theorbo to used only for solo music, almost exclusively late (like de Visee) although it might occasionally be used to play with very small ensembles at home, or a few early

[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Theorbo

2007-12-08 Thread T. Diehl-Peshkur
: Rob [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Sat, 8 Dec 2007 16:33:44 - To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Theorbo Hi (what's your first name?) All the surviving solo repertoire (and I'm sure someone will correct me if am wrong) is for 6 courses on the fingerboard

[LUTE] Re: Theorbo

2007-12-08 Thread Rob
www.rmguitar.info -Original Message- From: Rob [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 08 December 2007 17:13 To: 'T. Diehl-Peshkur' Subject: RE: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Theorbo Everything is difficult. Getting out of bed is very difficult. Is a large theorbo more difficult than a small one

[LUTE] Re: Double Meantone Theorbo and Guitar variants

2007-11-06 Thread Kevin Kishimoto
Interesting idea... trying to imagine the chords in my head. So are all the bass courses of your theorbo a 4th lower? Down to a very low D? And what kind of string is on the 14th course to make that note? Kevin - Original Message From: David Tayler [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: lute

[LUTE] Re: Double Meantone Theorbo and Guitar variants

2007-11-06 Thread David Tayler
On the archlute the 4th and 5th course are down a half step, F goes to E and C goes to B If you have seven fretted, the seventh is better at D or C, I use mainly D On the Theorbo in G--IMHO better for 17th c. music--the same is true, fourth and fifth courses down a half step. That places all

[LUTE] Re: Double Meantone Theorbo and Guitar variants

2007-11-06 Thread David Tayler
At 05:50 PM 11/6/2007, you wrote: Interesting idea... trying to imagine the chords in my head. So are all the bass courses of your theorbo a 4th lower? Down to a very low D? And what kind of string is on the 14th course to make that note? Kevin - Original Message From

[LUTE] Theorbo

2007-10-29 Thread Joshua E. Horn
Hi guys, I did something interesting today, I took the first six string tunings of a Theorbo and tuned my Guitar to it. I recorded a little 59 second intro. Ya'll can check it out here: http://joshuahorn.com/TheorboGuitar.mp3 -- Joshua E. Horn [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- http://www.fastmail.fm

[LUTE] Re: theorbo strings

2007-10-24 Thread Anthony Hind
cents worth. ed At 11:24 PM 10/23/2007 +0200, Nigel Solomon wrote: I have just put gut strings on the long basses on my theorbo (170 cm), they all sound great except the 13th and 14th courses which sound a bit tubby The diameter is 1.24 (14th) and 1.12 (13th) (4 kg per string) . Perhaps

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