[OT Mail List header rewriting ] Re: Lyx command line question
Paul Smith wrote: On 10/19/05, Paul [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: PS: Please always reply to the list I second that. I noticed a tendency to reply off-list. This leaves gaps in the mailing list archives and puts off a subset of list subscribers. css-discuss, on the contrary, adopted some different habits. The main question to ask is would the group or the World Wide Web benefit from this response or is its scope too narrow?. For the latter, in the case of Web site critique, there needn't be a public message available as it is site-specific or refers to browser bugs that are soon to vanish. Maybe it's just my mail client, but this list seems to default for a reply to the sender instead of to the list, unlike all the other lists I've ever been on. I accidently sent a reply intended for the list to the sender and didn't realise until a few days later. So maybe other people have the same problem. I agree, Paul. The reply address should be occupied by the list's address. Paul I could agree ... if I had not seen the problems it can cause. example: the MUSCLE list (smart cards) http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/muscle First: to me this breaks the rule of least surprise. that is: if I only hit reply, not reply all, I expect to be sending only to the person who sent the originating email. The second problem: because of the way it rewrites the headers, if I hit `reply to all` it still only includes the mailing list in the to lines, even though I wanted it to give me the person's address so I could cheaply take it off the mailing list. If someone really decides to make the change, please set the rewriter to put both the originator and the mailing list on the reply to line. Thanks for the discussion... -- Todd Denniston Crane Division, Naval Surface Warfare Center (NSWC Crane) Harnessing the Power of Technology for the Warfighter
Re: [OT Mail List header rewriting ] Re: Lyx command line question
Todd Denniston wrote: I agree, Paul. The reply address should be occupied by the list's address. I could agree ... if I had not seen the problems it can cause. example: the MUSCLE list (smart cards) http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/muscle First: to me this breaks the rule of least surprise. that is: if I only hit reply, not reply all, I expect to be sending only to the person who sent the originating email. Heh, I thought this might be a flame war topic. I guess it depends on what you're used to. Every other list I've ever been on has sent replies to the list, so it did surprise me that it didn't work that way here - I'm expecting emails from lists to have different behaviour to emails from individuals. The second problem: because of the way it rewrites the headers, if I hit `reply to all` it still only includes the mailing list in the to lines, even though I wanted it to give me the person's address so I could cheaply take it off the mailing list. My experience of lists is that 99% of the time I want to reply to the whole list, so it makes sense to me to have that as the default. If someone really decides to make the change, please set the rewriter to put both the originator and the mailing list on the reply to line. I've also got several duplicate replies to messages I've posted because people have sent to the list and cc'd me as well (maybe thinking I might not be subscribed). My thoughts are that if you want a reply it's courteous to be subscribed to the list, even if it's only for a short while. Sorry for the OT list pollution if this is a regular topic that comes up... But it might help with the problem of disjointed threads in the archives. Paul.
Re: [OT Mail List header rewriting ] Re: Lyx command line question
On Wed, Oct 19, 2005 at 08:32:06PM +0100, Paul wrote: My experience of lists is that 99% of the time I want to reply to the whole list, so it makes sense to me to have that as the default. If someone really decides to make the change, please set the rewriter to put both the originator and the mailing list on the reply to line. I've also got several duplicate replies to messages I've posted because people have sent to the list and cc'd me as well (maybe thinking I might not be subscribed). My thoughts are that if you want a reply it's courteous to be subscribed to the list, even if it's only for a short while. Sorry for the OT list pollution if this is a regular topic that comes up... But it might help with the problem of disjointed threads in the archives. From the mailman documentation: reply_goes_to_list (general): Where are replies to list messages directed? Poster is strongly recommended for most mailing lists. This option controls what Mailman does to the Reply-To: header in messages flowing through this mailing list. When set to Poster, no Reply-To: header is added by Mailman, although if one is present in the original message, it is not stripped. Setting this value to either This list or Explicit address causes Mailman to insert a specific Reply-To: header in all messages, overriding the header in the original message if necessary (Explicit address inserts the value of reply_to_address). There are many reasons not to introduce or override the Reply-To: header. One is that some posters depend on their own Reply-To: settings to convey their valid return address. Another is that modifying Reply-To: makes it much more difficult to send private replies. See `Reply-To' Munging Considered Harmful for a general discussion of this issue. See Reply-To Munging Considered Useful for a dissenting opinion. Some mailing lists have restricted posting privileges, with a parallel list devoted to discussions. Examples are `patches' or `checkin' lists, where software changes are posted by a revision control system, but discussion about the changes occurs on a developers mailing list. To support these types of mailing lists, select Explicit address and set the Reply-To: address below to point to the parallel list. The overwhelming majority of mailing lists do the right thing (IMNSHO) by leaving the Reply-To alone. Best regards, ---Kayvan -- Kayvan A. Sylvan | Proud husband of | Father to my kids: Sylvan Associates, Inc. | Laura Isabella Sylvan | Katherine Yelena (8/8/89) http://sylvan.com/~kayvan | crown of her husband | Robin Gregory (2/28/92)
[OT Mail List header rewriting ] Re: Lyx command line question
Paul Smith wrote: On 10/19/05, Paul [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: PS: Please always reply to the list I second that. I noticed a tendency to reply off-list. This leaves gaps in the mailing list archives and puts off a subset of list subscribers. css-discuss, on the contrary, adopted some different habits. The main question to ask is would the group or the World Wide Web benefit from this response or is its scope too narrow?. For the latter, in the case of Web site critique, there needn't be a public message available as it is site-specific or refers to browser bugs that are soon to vanish. Maybe it's just my mail client, but this list seems to default for a reply to the sender instead of to the list, unlike all the other lists I've ever been on. I accidently sent a reply intended for the list to the sender and didn't realise until a few days later. So maybe other people have the same problem. I agree, Paul. The reply address should be occupied by the list's address. Paul I could agree ... if I had not seen the problems it can cause. example: the MUSCLE list (smart cards) http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/muscle First: to me this breaks the rule of least surprise. that is: if I only hit reply, not reply all, I expect to be sending only to the person who sent the originating email. The second problem: because of the way it rewrites the headers, if I hit `reply to all` it still only includes the mailing list in the to lines, even though I wanted it to give me the person's address so I could cheaply take it off the mailing list. If someone really decides to make the change, please set the rewriter to put both the originator and the mailing list on the reply to line. Thanks for the discussion... -- Todd Denniston Crane Division, Naval Surface Warfare Center (NSWC Crane) Harnessing the Power of Technology for the Warfighter
Re: [OT Mail List header rewriting ] Re: Lyx command line question
Todd Denniston wrote: I agree, Paul. The reply address should be occupied by the list's address. I could agree ... if I had not seen the problems it can cause. example: the MUSCLE list (smart cards) http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/muscle First: to me this breaks the rule of least surprise. that is: if I only hit reply, not reply all, I expect to be sending only to the person who sent the originating email. Heh, I thought this might be a flame war topic. I guess it depends on what you're used to. Every other list I've ever been on has sent replies to the list, so it did surprise me that it didn't work that way here - I'm expecting emails from lists to have different behaviour to emails from individuals. The second problem: because of the way it rewrites the headers, if I hit `reply to all` it still only includes the mailing list in the to lines, even though I wanted it to give me the person's address so I could cheaply take it off the mailing list. My experience of lists is that 99% of the time I want to reply to the whole list, so it makes sense to me to have that as the default. If someone really decides to make the change, please set the rewriter to put both the originator and the mailing list on the reply to line. I've also got several duplicate replies to messages I've posted because people have sent to the list and cc'd me as well (maybe thinking I might not be subscribed). My thoughts are that if you want a reply it's courteous to be subscribed to the list, even if it's only for a short while. Sorry for the OT list pollution if this is a regular topic that comes up... But it might help with the problem of disjointed threads in the archives. Paul.
Re: [OT Mail List header rewriting ] Re: Lyx command line question
On Wed, Oct 19, 2005 at 08:32:06PM +0100, Paul wrote: My experience of lists is that 99% of the time I want to reply to the whole list, so it makes sense to me to have that as the default. If someone really decides to make the change, please set the rewriter to put both the originator and the mailing list on the reply to line. I've also got several duplicate replies to messages I've posted because people have sent to the list and cc'd me as well (maybe thinking I might not be subscribed). My thoughts are that if you want a reply it's courteous to be subscribed to the list, even if it's only for a short while. Sorry for the OT list pollution if this is a regular topic that comes up... But it might help with the problem of disjointed threads in the archives. From the mailman documentation: reply_goes_to_list (general): Where are replies to list messages directed? Poster is strongly recommended for most mailing lists. This option controls what Mailman does to the Reply-To: header in messages flowing through this mailing list. When set to Poster, no Reply-To: header is added by Mailman, although if one is present in the original message, it is not stripped. Setting this value to either This list or Explicit address causes Mailman to insert a specific Reply-To: header in all messages, overriding the header in the original message if necessary (Explicit address inserts the value of reply_to_address). There are many reasons not to introduce or override the Reply-To: header. One is that some posters depend on their own Reply-To: settings to convey their valid return address. Another is that modifying Reply-To: makes it much more difficult to send private replies. See `Reply-To' Munging Considered Harmful for a general discussion of this issue. See Reply-To Munging Considered Useful for a dissenting opinion. Some mailing lists have restricted posting privileges, with a parallel list devoted to discussions. Examples are `patches' or `checkin' lists, where software changes are posted by a revision control system, but discussion about the changes occurs on a developers mailing list. To support these types of mailing lists, select Explicit address and set the Reply-To: address below to point to the parallel list. The overwhelming majority of mailing lists do the right thing (IMNSHO) by leaving the Reply-To alone. Best regards, ---Kayvan -- Kayvan A. Sylvan | Proud husband of | Father to my kids: Sylvan Associates, Inc. | Laura Isabella Sylvan | Katherine Yelena (8/8/89) http://sylvan.com/~kayvan | crown of her husband | Robin Gregory (2/28/92)
[OT Mail List header rewriting ] Re: Lyx command line question
Paul Smith wrote: > > On 10/19/05, Paul <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > >>> PS: Please always reply to the list > > > > > > I second that. I noticed a tendency to reply off-list. This leaves > > > gaps in the mailing list archives and puts off a subset of list > > > subscribers. css-discuss, on the contrary, adopted some different > > > habits. The main question to ask is "would the group or the World > > > Wide Web benefit from this response or is its scope too narrow?". For > > > the latter, in the case of Web site critique, there needn't be a > > > public message available as it is site-specific or refers to browser > > > bugs that are soon to vanish. > > > > Maybe it's just my mail client, but this list seems to default for a > > reply to the sender instead of to the list, unlike all the other lists > > I've ever been on. I accidently sent a reply intended for the list to > > the sender and didn't realise until a few days later. So maybe other > > people have the same problem. > > I agree, Paul. The reply address should be occupied by the list's address. > > Paul I could agree ... if I had not seen the problems it can cause. example: the MUSCLE list (smart cards) http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/muscle First: to me this breaks the rule of least surprise. that is: if I only hit reply, not reply all, I expect to be sending only to the person who sent the originating email. The second problem: because of the way it rewrites the headers, if I hit `reply to all` it still only includes the mailing list in the to lines, even though I wanted it to give me the person's address so I could cheaply take it off the mailing list. If someone really decides to make the change, please set the rewriter to put both the originator and the mailing list on the reply to line. Thanks for the discussion... -- Todd Denniston Crane Division, Naval Surface Warfare Center (NSWC Crane) Harnessing the Power of Technology for the Warfighter
Re: [OT Mail List header rewriting ] Re: Lyx command line question
Todd Denniston wrote: >>I agree, Paul. The reply address should be occupied by the list's address. > > I could agree ... if I had not seen the problems it can cause. > example: the MUSCLE list (smart cards) > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/muscle > > First: to me this breaks the rule of least surprise. > that is: if I only hit reply, not reply all, I expect to be sending only to > the person who sent the originating email. Heh, I thought this might be a "flame war" topic. I guess it depends on what you're used to. Every other list I've ever been on has sent replies to the list, so it did surprise me that it didn't work that way here - I'm expecting emails from lists to have different behaviour to emails from individuals. > The second problem: because of the way it rewrites the headers, if I hit > `reply to all` it still only includes the mailing list in the to lines, even > though I wanted it to give me the person's address so I could cheaply take > it off the mailing list. My experience of lists is that 99% of the time I want to reply to the whole list, so it makes sense to me to have that as the default. > If someone really decides to make the change, please set the rewriter to put > both the originator and the mailing list on the reply to line. I've also got several duplicate replies to messages I've posted because people have sent to the list and cc'd me as well (maybe thinking I might not be subscribed). My thoughts are that if you want a reply it's courteous to be subscribed to the list, even if it's only for a short while. Sorry for the OT list pollution if this is a regular topic that comes up... But it might help with the problem of disjointed threads in the archives. Paul.
Re: [OT Mail List header rewriting ] Re: Lyx command line question
On Wed, Oct 19, 2005 at 08:32:06PM +0100, Paul wrote: > My experience of lists is that 99% of the time I want to reply to the > whole list, so it makes sense to me to have that as the default. > > > If someone really decides to make the change, please set the rewriter to put > > both the originator and the mailing list on the reply to line. > > I've also got several duplicate replies to messages I've posted because > people have sent to the list and cc'd me as well (maybe thinking I might > not be subscribed). My thoughts are that if you want a reply it's > courteous to be subscribed to the list, even if it's only for a short while. > > Sorry for the OT list pollution if this is a regular topic that comes > up... But it might help with the problem of disjointed threads in the > archives. >From the mailman documentation: "reply_goes_to_list (general): Where are replies to list messages directed? Poster is strongly recommended for most mailing lists. This option controls what Mailman does to the Reply-To: header in messages flowing through this mailing list. When set to Poster, no Reply-To: header is added by Mailman, although if one is present in the original message, it is not stripped. Setting this value to either This list or Explicit address causes Mailman to insert a specific Reply-To: header in all messages, overriding the header in the original message if necessary (Explicit address inserts the value of reply_to_address). There are many reasons not to introduce or override the Reply-To: header. One is that some posters depend on their own Reply-To: settings to convey their valid return address. Another is that modifying Reply-To: makes it much more difficult to send private replies. See `Reply-To' Munging Considered Harmful for a general discussion of this issue. See Reply-To Munging Considered Useful for a dissenting opinion. Some mailing lists have restricted posting privileges, with a parallel list devoted to discussions. Examples are `patches' or `checkin' lists, where software changes are posted by a revision control system, but discussion about the changes occurs on a developers mailing list. To support these types of mailing lists, select Explicit address and set the Reply-To: address below to point to the parallel list." The overwhelming majority of mailing lists do the right thing (IMNSHO) by leaving the Reply-To alone. Best regards, ---Kayvan -- Kayvan A. Sylvan | Proud husband of | Father to my kids: Sylvan Associates, Inc. | Laura Isabella Sylvan | Katherine Yelena (8/8/89) http://sylvan.com/~kayvan | "crown of her husband" | Robin Gregory (2/28/92)
