Re: Layout Style: Display as Uppercase?

[Scott Kostyshak]

On Fri, Jan 06, 2017 at 09:33:34PM -0500, Richard Heck wrote:
> On 12/08/2016 12:24 AM, Joel Kulesza wrote:
> > On Wed, Dec 7, 2016 at 3:42 PM, Scott Kostyshak  > > wrote:
> >
> > On Wed, Dec 07, 2016 at 02:32:00PM -0700, Joel Kulesza wrote:
> > > Colleagues:
> > >
> > > Is there a way to adjust the Font of a Style in a .layout to
> > display as
> > > UPPERCASE in LyX?
> > >
> > > I cannot see a way to do this in Help -> Customization --- have I
> > > overlooked something?
> > >
> > > I am trying to get LyX to match the appearance of an associated
> > .cls file
> > > which converts all \section{...} entries to uppercase in the
> > document.
> >
> > The feature does not currently exist. I have come across the same
> > issue
> > in the past. I think that there are conceptual issues and it is not
> > clear we want to implement it. See the ticket here:
> > http://www.lyx.org/trac/ticket/9489
> > 
> > If you can respond to the concern there then maybe it would be
> > reconsidered.
> >
> >
> > Thank you for confirming that the ability is absent and for pointing
> > me to that ticket.  Indeed, I understand the point raised that
> > representing non-uppercase text as uppercase would be misleading.  It
> > would go against WYSIWYM.  However, one might approach WYSIWYM from
> > two directions: that of the user and that of the publisher.  I believe
> > the ticket to be written from the perspective of the user and his/her
> > interaction with LyX (if they mean for uppercase, they should use/see it).
> 
> Another option, which we do sometimes use, is to change the color, as a
> signal that something is weird. We do this, for example, with 'resumed'
> enumerations, where the numbering ends up being wrong. So, e.g., we
> could make the captialized section heading blue.
> 
> > To avoid the "loss of information" cited in the ticket, I would
> > propose converting the case to uppercase as the section heading is
> > typed so that any subsequent copy/paste would be uppercase.
> 
> Possible but would involve complicated hard-coding of this conversion,
> and it would be very different from what else we do.

Joel, I would suggest you put the relevant information discussed in this
email thread on the ticket (#9489). This way we will have a centralized
place to discuss the topic.

Scott


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Re: Layout Style: Display as Uppercase?

[Richard Heck]

On 12/08/2016 12:24 AM, Joel Kulesza wrote:
> On Wed, Dec 7, 2016 at 3:42 PM, Scott Kostyshak  > wrote:
>
> On Wed, Dec 07, 2016 at 02:32:00PM -0700, Joel Kulesza wrote:
> > Colleagues:
> >
> > Is there a way to adjust the Font of a Style in a .layout to
> display as
> > UPPERCASE in LyX?
> >
> > I cannot see a way to do this in Help -> Customization --- have I
> > overlooked something?
> >
> > I am trying to get LyX to match the appearance of an associated
> .cls file
> > which converts all \section{...} entries to uppercase in the
> document.
>
> The feature does not currently exist. I have come across the same
> issue
> in the past. I think that there are conceptual issues and it is not
> clear we want to implement it. See the ticket here:
> http://www.lyx.org/trac/ticket/9489
> 
> If you can respond to the concern there then maybe it would be
> reconsidered.
>
>
> Thank you for confirming that the ability is absent and for pointing
> me to that ticket.  Indeed, I understand the point raised that
> representing non-uppercase text as uppercase would be misleading.  It
> would go against WYSIWYM.  However, one might approach WYSIWYM from
> two directions: that of the user and that of the publisher.  I believe
> the ticket to be written from the perspective of the user and his/her
> interaction with LyX (if they mean for uppercase, they should use/see it).

Another option, which we do sometimes use, is to change the color, as a
signal that something is weird. We do this, for example, with 'resumed'
enumerations, where the numbering ends up being wrong. So, e.g., we
could make the captialized section heading blue.

> To avoid the "loss of information" cited in the ticket, I would
> propose converting the case to uppercase as the section heading is
> typed so that any subsequent copy/paste would be uppercase.

Possible but would involve complicated hard-coding of this conversion,
and it would be very different from what else we do.

Richard

Re: Layout Style: Display as Uppercase?

[Joel Kulesza]

On Wed, Dec 7, 2016 at 3:42 PM, Scott Kostyshak  wrote:

> On Wed, Dec 07, 2016 at 02:32:00PM -0700, Joel Kulesza wrote:
> > Colleagues:
> >
> > Is there a way to adjust the Font of a Style in a .layout to display as
> > UPPERCASE in LyX?
> >
> > I cannot see a way to do this in Help -> Customization --- have I
> > overlooked something?
> >
> > I am trying to get LyX to match the appearance of an associated .cls file
> > which converts all \section{...} entries to uppercase in the document.
>
> The feature does not currently exist. I have come across the same issue
> in the past. I think that there are conceptual issues and it is not
> clear we want to implement it. See the ticket here:
> http://www.lyx.org/trac/ticket/9489
> If you can respond to the concern there then maybe it would be
> reconsidered.


Thank you for confirming that the ability is absent and for pointing me to
that ticket.  Indeed, I understand the point raised that representing
non-uppercase text as uppercase would be misleading.  It would go against
WYSIWYM.  However, one might approach WYSIWYM from two directions: that of
the user and that of the publisher.  I believe the ticket to be written
from the perspective of the user and his/her interaction with LyX (if they
mean for uppercase, they should use/see it).

In my case, I'm trying to make a .layout such that a user can work within
LyX and use a publisher-provided class file.  The publisher-defined style
for \section is uppercase.  As such, all I'm looking for is the ability for
the .layout/LyX to interpret \section as uppercase and display it as such
regardless of the user's preference because that is what the publisher
means.  That will, hopefully, also (a) save the user a bit of time to not
have to capitalize the \section and (b) eliminate confusion/inconsistency
between LyX and what is produced as camera-ready (which is non-negotiable).

To avoid the "loss of information" cited in the ticket, I would propose
converting the case to uppercase as the section heading is typed so that
any subsequent copy/paste would be uppercase.  One might also disable the
relevant Edit -> Text Style entries for so-flagged layout styles.

Two asides:

   1. What is the prevailing opinion on the Edit -> Text Style submenu?  I
   would really like to see the lowercase/uppercase/capitalize options move
   into the Text style dialog (accessible from the Edit -> Text Style ->
   Customize entry).  This would seem to logically collect text
   manipulation/appearance operations.
   2. What is the functional difference between Text style -> Misc -> Noun
   vs. Text style -> Shape -> Small caps?  Looking at the LaTeX source with
   both, they appear to do the same thing.  Am I overlooking something or
   thinking too LaTeX-centric?

Thanks,
Joel

Re: Layout Style: Display as Uppercase?

[Scott Kostyshak]

On Wed, Dec 07, 2016 at 02:32:00PM -0700, Joel Kulesza wrote:
> Colleagues:
> 
> Is there a way to adjust the Font of a Style in a .layout to display as
> UPPERCASE in LyX?
> 
> I cannot see a way to do this in Help -> Customization --- have I
> overlooked something?
> 
> I am trying to get LyX to match the appearance of an associated .cls file
> which converts all \section{...} entries to uppercase in the document.

The feature does not currently exist. I have come across the same issue
in the past. I think that there are conceptual issues and it is not
clear we want to implement it. See the ticket here:
http://www.lyx.org/trac/ticket/9489
If you can respond to the concern there then maybe it would be
reconsidered.

Scott


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