Barry Warsaw writes:
No more! See my other follow up. And there's no restriction on
values. Sometimes generic is easier than specific (shouldn't that
be a Zen of Python? :).
Uh-oh. Looks like somebody is using EggNog programming style! Or are
you just high on life? ;-)
Barry Warsaw writes:
Remember too that in MM3, messages only get fed to the registered
IArchiver interfaces by a separate archive runner. So they aren't
a bottleneck for delivery to the user, but on heavily trafficked
sites, they can potential consume a lot of resources if the
archiver
Congratulations! Wow, Merry Christmas[1] to us!
Barry Warsaw writes:
One of my top priorities has been to port Mailman 3 (core) to Python 3. This
work is now complete, and ready to be merged into trunk.
Footnotes:
[1] Season to taste.
___
Andrew Stuart writes:
Thanks for the guidance - I’ll have to admit I don’t know much
about how to do such things right so the more guidance you are
willing to give the better. Most of my code so far has been for me
and no-one else so my next task is to learn how to write tests
properly.
Andrew Stuart writes:
Do ASCII diagrams work in email? Your email reader will need to use
a fixed width fonr to see this:
Thanks for the pictures! :-) They mke things very clear.
Yes, for *this* list for most users I think it will probably work
well enough.
Andrew Stuart writes:
I’m writing an authenticating proxy for the Mailman REST API and
want to make sure everything works as expected against real
infrastructure (Postgres/Postfix/Sqlalchemy/Falcon).
Determining that things work as expected against real infrastructure
is not what the test
Andrew Stuart writes:
Actually I copied the directory specifications from the output of
mailman info -v I can see now that isn’t a good idea as the format
is not the same. Don’t know why I assumed it would be.
Well, it is in Mailman 2 because in Mailman 2 those variables would be
Aurelien Bompard writes:
I'm really interested in any insight on this issue. Thanks for reading all
that :-)
RFC 2047 and RFC 2231 should be treated as wire protocol, and handled
at the bytes level. I haven't looked at this in a while, but I'm
pretty sure Python 3's email module does this
Aurelien Bompard writes:
I suggest we leave the member's moderation_action on None when it's
created, and modify the moderation rules to go look for the list's default
setting if the member's value is None.
I think this is a bad idea. From the subscriber's perspective, it
changes the
Vijay Tico writes:
Is this issue resolved in the newer versions, or is this just a matter
of misconfiguration?
Well, that's kinda hard to tell since we don't know what you've
configured how.
There's a good chance that it's a problem in the Mailman system since
this is all quite young, but
Guillaume Libersat writes:
It looks to run smoothly in my test environment, how crazy is it to
try it on the production server? Any chance to corrupt the DB? :)
Only you can judge craziness, but I would say, yes, there is a chance
of DB corruption that is higher than before the migration.
Reply-To set to Mailman-Users. Although actual work on an RFC
probably would be done by a developer, there's no reason to exclude
site admins and list owners, and the impact of DMARC is surely
apparent to developers, admins, and owners alike, as well as to our
subscribers.
Victoriano Giralt
Barry Warsaw writes:
I am happy to announce that the MM3 trunk has been ported to
SQLAlchemy (SA). The full test suite completes against both SQLite and
PostgreSQL as back-ends, and I would expect that with a little bit of work
(contributions welcome!) any other back-end supported by SA
Guillaume Libersat writes:
I'd like to start translating postorius in french, where should I start?
I've cloned the repository and I'm ready to generate the catalogs. Can I
just translate it and submit it somewhere?
Thank you!
The usual procedure is to set up an account on Launchpad, push
Guillaume Libersat writes:
Ok, thanks for your advice! I've done exactly what you said, here's the
beginning of the work:
https://code.launchpad.net/~glibersat/postorius/i18n-french
Great!
I hope to finish the translation in a few days. I've also added a few
trans tags so more strings
Saurabh Singhal writes:
It would be a pleasure to work with the mailman team and if
possible please let me know from where I should start.
Start here:
http://wiki.list.org/display/DEV/Home
and here for recent lists of projects we considered doable in two
months by a single, often new to
Rajeev S writes:
Fixed that. There was another argument for setuptools called
`scripts` which does the required task, that is, does not require
the executable to have a callable.
Cool!
___
Mailman-Developers mailing list
Rajeev S writes:
Further, The mmclient.py *should have* a callable function for it
to work as a module entry point (a.k.a shell command), when
installed through `python setup.py install`. The created executable
does `import` the mmclient
I still don't understand this. You have a module
Rajeev S writes:
I feel that it will make the code cluttered. Since the CLI code
is independent of the rest of mailman client, won't it be
better to maintain the CLI code in a separate folder, as it is now?
Of course. I didn't explain myself well. What you have now is
mailman/ -+-
Rajeev S writes:
The above tree is wrong, this is the current directory structure
mailmanclient/ -+- _client.py
+- docs/
+- tests/
+- cli/ -+- mmclient.py
+- core/
+- docs/
Hi,
I have some comments on your CLI, r69. File is attached.
Steve
Comments on Rajeev's CLI
== =
Comment Date: 2014-08-05 22:16
Referenced Commit:
Hi all,
For the past few weeks I've been participating in discussions of DMARC
at the IETF, and I thought I'd post an update as matters have taken a
somewhat optimistic turn there. According to participants there, the
dm...@ietf.org mailing list is the primary venue for discussion of
DMARC
Rajeev S writes:
The commands surely do become more intuitive and make more sense,
but this has a negative,the number of commands almost doubles.
The number of instances of class Command or whatever it's called
doesn't need to double, though. You could simply have the parser
recognize the
You don't need to put me in the addressee list if you Cc
mailman-developers.
Rajeev S writes:
As this is a command shell, I wish to give it a SQL like feel.
I don't understand why you want it to feel like SQL. SQL is hardly
something I would expect typical list admins to know about. Choice
Aurelien Bompard writes:
For your information, I have written a small SELinux module for Mailman3,
it's included in my Fedora RPM and works fine. In the future (when MM3 is
out), I'll ask for integration in the core policy.
Core policy means at SELinux? Why not put it in a contrib
Mark Sapiro writes:
I have no idea exactly what fraction of Mailman lists are configured
with personalized footers, but I suspect it's significant.
@John: Sorry, I definitely was assuming personalization; I should have
said so.
I think personalization is quite a desirable feature in some
I thought I sent this but my MUA disagrees
A user (one among many) writes:
Mark,
Good straw to grasp at. I thought SElinux had already been disabled but it
hadn't. It seems to be working now.
Do we have better advice than just disable SELinux to offer?
I ask because solving the DMARC
John Levine writes:
Thinking about it this way, I'm not really sure what's being
considered for DMARC, ...
Nothing specifically for DMARC.
Yeah, I got that far.
OAuth just avoids the need to ask the user directly for her
password. Once you have access to the subscriber's submit
John Levine writes:
After digging through a festival of acronyms, I ended up at RFC
6616.
Thank you!
There are certainly OpenID libraries, but I don't know to what extent
anyone has written the code to splice them into SASL.
Were we (on dmarc@ietf) talking all along about OpenID when
Stephen J. Turnbull writes:
The most recent code is presumably in Abilash's repo on Launchpad.
I'll find it for you later (have an appointment right now), but you
can look in the list of branches for the Mailman project on
launchpad.net.
I think it's lp:~raj-abhilash1/mailman.client/gsoc
Sylvain Viart writes:
This question of distributing encrypted email to an unknown number
of subscribers is quite interesting/dangerous in the point of view
of securing the information.
True, but this is out of scope for this list. I'm not saying you
shouldn't discuss here if you want to,
Barry Warsaw writes:
On Jun 12, 2014, at 02:18 PM, John Levine wrote:
* Forwarding signature
How does this list of forwarding target domains get specified?
It can be specified explicitly (to add domains that are in Bcc or to
restrict the domains allowed), but it defaults to the list of
Barry Warsaw writes:
I want to just reject all posts from p=reject sites. But I know we
can't get away with that.
*We* (= mailman-developers) probably can. And Mailman 2.1.18-1
already has a facility to allow per-list decisions to do so. I know
how you feel :-), but I think that's good
Stanisław Findeisen writes:
What is the current status of this issue? Is there going to be GnuPG
support in Mailman 3?
Some work was done on it in last year's GSoC, but it's not ready for
integration yet, and I doubt it will be in the first 3.0 release.
Stanisław Findeisen writes:
What needs to be done? Where is the code?
Pretty much everything. In particular, key management is not at all
useful last I heard, you need to load the keys by hand into a file on
the server or something like that. It wasn't integrated into the
account management
Jim Popovitch writes:
What changed that you object to?
One of the original __High-Level Goals__ was:
DMARC is intended to reduce the success of attackers sending
mail pretending to be from a domain they do not control, with
minimal changes to existing mail handling at
John Levine writes:
* Forwarding signature
Thanks, I was about to write something like this!
* Submit and sign
When a user at a p=reject signs up for a list, you demand an OAUTH API
token if the the provider supports it, otherwise their host system
password.
-1 on the password
Jim Popovitch writes:
On Thu, Jun 12, 2014 at 10:18 AM, John Levine jo...@taugh.com wrote:
* Forwarding signature
It seems to me that a non-DMARC subdomain, for users, would be easier and
better for all..
No, the mailbox providers already can do that and it's not because
they were
Stephen J. Turnbull writes:
She also said that (as of a week ago) the attack based on stolen
contact lists was continuing to flood their incoming MXes,
This statement turns out to be inoperative. Elizabeth now plausibly
denies this, claiming that she never said they were still conducting
Jim Popovitch writes:
AND THEN, a (that very same senior admin?)
All are the same person I suppose, Elizabeth Zwicky.
Yahoo! employee got involved in the DMARC spec and it became the
bastardized DMARC spec.
Do you have specific complaints?
I like the DMARC spec as it stands. Yahoo!
John R Levine writes:
Honestly, Tough Noogies. Let list managers make their own security
decisions.
Revealing a user password is not a list security decision, it's a user
security decision. Asking users for their passwords is evil, period.
I mentioned the impact on lists (becoming
Jim Popovitch writes:
Do you have specific complaints?
Yes. Unless it's not already understood... the original idea
behind DMARC centered around non-human transactional emails
(Banking notifications, Facebook status updates, etc.).
This was understood, and is why I call what Yahoo!
Jim Popovitch writes:
Unless I am mistaking things, the sheer irony here is that Yahoo's
bastardized version of DMARC, which is necessary to stave off
collateral damage from their past security breach(es?), needs to be
further augmented with even less user security in order to be secure.
Murray S. Kucherawy writes:
On Wed, Jun 4, 2014 at 8:39 AM, Stephen J. Turnbull step...@xemacs.org
wrote:
If I understand you correctly, we actually already have the mechanics
for this in place. Most sites like Yahoo! allow you to whitelist a
sender.
You here is the individual
Murray S. Kucherawy writes:
We didn't intend for this to be used by MUAs, however, so to some degree
they're doing what we expected.
I know, but I think it's time for the IETF to recognize that email
fraud cannot be fought if the receiving end of end-to-end doesn't go
all the way through the
Murray S. Kucherawy writes:
What's the expertise on the idea of adding footers in a new MIME text/plain
part rather than just bolting it onto the text as-is? (Or is that already
done?) What do MUAs generally do with multipart text/plain bodies?
As Mark and Barry point out, the
Rajeev S writes:
Also maybe you can try making your tool a little more smart? Like lets
say I try to create a list abhil...@raj.com and there is no domain
raj.com in the database, so instead of just showing error maybe you can
ask the user:
The domain raj.com does not exist, Do
Patrick Ben Koetter writes:
I doubt anyone that igorant of e-mail and how it works will ever
make it to the MM3 command line client, but yes, such cases do
exist.
I think they're actually likely to be reasonably common.
However I think the use case prepare Mailman to handle mail for a
Bob Puff writes:
So guys... Is there a simple little hack we can do within MM 2.1 to
try to mitigate this issue, by adding .invalid or some other
extension? I've got a few lists that are getting to the point
where MM sends the probe email, and then figures it is not a
bouncing address,
Franck Martin writes:
You can also apply this patch:
http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~mlm-author/mailman/2.1-author/revision/1341?remember=1338compare_revid=1338
Rather than injecting an invalid domain in the From: and weakening
more the security of email...
If your *primary* concern
Quoth Mark Sapiro:
Exactly how to patch this depends on what Mailman version you're
starting with, but you basically want some code like this.
snip
John Levine writes:
How do you limit it to just addresses with DMARC problems? There's no
benefit to doing it to everyone.
Probably a
Lindsay Haisley writes:
I have a lot of mods to Mailman too. Patching is easy using the gnu.org
diff and patch tools and can easily be scripted,
I'm sure the OP knows that, and may even have a bzr (or git) repo.
However, any change can require resolving conflicts, and some require
changing
BTW, unless specifically mentioned that I'm speaking as mentor, I'm
speaking as an ordinary developer, and you should feel free to argue
with me, or agree with me, or reserve comment until you feel
comfortable discussing issues. Also, I apologize if I end up talking
down to you. I don't know you
Barry Warsaw writes:
Also as a general rule, I think we want just one level of
subcommand, so that `mmclient show --list` would be the template.
(That's open to discussion.)
I wonder about this in the context of argparse and the command line,
because argparse makes a strong distinction
John R Levine writes:
One advantage of this hack is that you can just turn it off when
you don't need it, much easier than the stuff that puts the list
address in the From: line which affects everyone.
You're wrong on both counts. In Mailman 2.1.18, From munging is
equally
SM writes:
RFCs must be shown to work in practice before they become Proposed
Standards. Ie, don't expect something to work until you see it.
This is a nit. There isn't any requirement that RFCs have to be
shown to work in practice before they become Proposed Standards.
Don't you
John Levine writes:
I wouldn't waste time worrying about whether various hacks might make
it 0.0001% easier to phish people.
Will you please stop focusing on *your* logic, and start thinking
about what happens if people with different interpretations of the
facts take action on those
SM writes:
Hi Stephen,
At 23:28 05-05-2014, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:
Don't you have that backwards? It's pointing out lack of a formal
hard requirement that is nit-picking. After all, Postel's Principle
isn't written in any IETF procedure manual. Would you call that one a
nit, too
John R Levine writes:
My apologies. My imagination is sadly limited by 20 years of
running mailing lists for real people, and extensive conversations
with the people who designed and use DMARC.
Experience doesn't limit imagination, it's desperation to solve a
difficult problem in a hurry
John R Levine writes:
But you're nuts if you think that every Mailman list is going to
kick off every Yahoo and AOL user,
You can stop the ad hominem innuendo right there (that's an RFC 2119
MUST NOT). There is plenty of documentary evidence on Mailman lists
that I'm fully aware that that
John R Levine writes:
Note that AOL and Yahoo! need to do this because they have
ambitions of being e-commerce platforms, and so their domain
names can be used to scam money out of people.
We're deep enough into tin-foil hat territory here that we're
done. Should you want to know
John R Levine writes:
One advantage of this hack is that you can just turn it off when
you don't need it, much easier than the stuff that puts the list
address in the From: line which affects everyone.
You're wrong on both counts. In Mailman 2.1.18, From munging is
equally easy to turn
Mark Rousell writes:
I do not think that this method of working around Yahoo's DMARC
implementation will necessarily
Nor do I. I point to the *possibility* and our lack of ability to
predict effects. The RFCs have proven over time to give us a system
that works smoothly. We have rules of
It just occurred to me that (at the expense of a DNS query) many sites
can distinguish DMARC rejects pretty well by doing a DNS query for the
From address (which I think we should be able to get, at least most of
the time). This may not help much if you have most of your users
posting from
Tim Marx writes:
/var/tmp/mailman/mailman-bundler/eggs/zope.component-4.2.1-py2.7.egg/zope/component/__init__.py,
line 19, in module
from zope.interface import named
ImportError: cannot import name named
John Levine writes:
Before you tell me I'm nuts, hear me out. I've actually implemented
this, and it works.
You're not nuts. However, your definition of works is necessarily
limited to what you personally can see, in only a couple of weeks. It
does *not* take into account the potential
Rajeev S writes:
Hi,
I have added two more methods, *create domain* and *list mailing lists*.
The listing feature is performed using the `tabulate` module, which I have
added to the install_requires.
Also, the usage of the CLI is explained in the cli/docs/using.txt.
Great!
I have
Tom Browder writes:
I haven't watched this entire thread, but I hope someone is
considering setting appropriate defaults for at least two mailing list
types such as:
read-only (news)
read-post (moderated or not)
Not in that terminology, no. What do you hope to type, and what
Tom Browder writes:
I think this GSoC project might be the place to at least start with
the option of choosing a list style such as a defined read-only
mailing list.
Ah, OK, I see what you're getting at now.
I think this is out of scope for the CLI project, although it's
possible that
Rajeev S writes:
You do a *heroku login *from your shell and you can run commands on
the remote server of your application from your shell.This would be
an interesting project and would hugely benefit usability of the
current project.
Sure, under the hood this is just an ssh login, most
Tanstaafl writes:
On 4/27/2014 11:03 AM, Stephen J. Turnbull step...@xemacs.org wrote:
When you get ~250 wanted mails (many of them list, of
course) and ~1000 spams (that get past the 6-sigma if this filter
thinks it's spam, throw it away! filter) a day, automatic processing
Just to follow up quickly (I've got problems I need to deal with
elsewhere over the next couple days).
Abhilash Raj writes:
Hey, thanks for jumping in, maxking!
Hi Rajeev,
Congratulations! We look forward to a great summer with you.
Definitely!
I would like to thank the Mailman
Mark Sapiro writes:
I have tentatively scheduled an open space for Friday, 11 April at
18:00 in room 523B at Pycon to talk about DMARC and mail lists. All
available interested parties are invited. If the time doesn't work,
we can reschedule.
Is that EST or EDT? I'll try to be around on
Kẏra writes:
Is there a page documenting how to start testing MM3 with
postorius+hyperkitty and how to upgrade from MM2?
The relevant and up-to-date documentation is mostly in the docs in the
source trees of the various projects. Some effort has been made to
update the wiki, but I doubt
Barry Warsaw writes:
I feel quite strongly that rules should be self-contained and
unordered, with ordering imposed by the chain of links that rules
are associated with.
I don't understand what you're trying to say here. Are you saying
that rules should not have a
Bhargav Golla writes:
Also, I have observed on the PSF GSoC page that it requires students to
submit a patch to the sub-organization.
I like this one:
https://bugs.launchpad.net/mailman/+bug/881320
Requires knowledge of gettext and the Python facilities for dealing
with it (IIRC xgettext
Barry Warsaw writes:
I'm having a hard time right now seeing how we could continue to
support these types of operations with a combined member and
non-member rule.
I expressed myself poorly. The parameters of the decision logic given
the list of senders are different for the two rules so
Bhargav Golla writes:
guess the culture varies from organization to organization
Thank you for pointing this out. Indeed it does. ASF (and the PSF
for that matter) have a lot more applicants, and at least the PSF is
using a generic channel -- core-mentorship -- for GSoC and OPW
interns. In
Bhargav Golla writes:
I hope my mail hasn't missed your attention. I would be very much
obliged if someone could answer this question so that I can go
ahead and write proposal.
First, it's impolite to send mail to specific people just because
they're answered you before, unless they are
Barry Warsaw writes:
The basic problem is this: with the separation of web ui and core, the core
can't actually know a priori what those links will be, or even if there *are*
links. So in my branch I actually remove all those links from the default
templates and rewrite as necessary to
Aurelien Bompard writes:
I'd like to discuss what happens when an email is sent by both a
member and a nonmember in Mailman3. How is that possible? Very easy,
here's my use case : I have my own domain, say example.com, and for
convenience and portability I choose to use Gmail as a
varun sharma writes:
Actually my idea is to import all the unit tests from the projects
involved in the suite and write new tests as well if required, so
that we can check both integration of new code and integration
of components with each other. Selectively combining unit tests of
Nitin Agarwal writes:
Here its Nitin Agarwal, an open source Software developer and
enthusiast.
Hi, pleased to meet you. I'm belatedly replying to the list, and at
length, as there are other students in your situation. I hope it
helps.
First off, I saw you talked to Terri on IRC. Much as
varun sharma writes:
On Fri, Mar 7, 2014 at 7:14 AM, Stephen J. Turnbull
step...@xemacs.orgwrote:
[ long irrelevant quote snipped -- please trim! If you really can't
trim because you're using a handheld in a crowded bus on a very bumpy
road, please *top* post, but make sure your text
Barry Warsaw writes:
BTW Tom, are you trying to run MM2 and MM3 concurrently? I'd like
that to be a supported deployment use case, but haven't had much
time to try it myself.
I do this already, but with Exim4 as MTA. It's not hard. Of course
if both installations have lists of the same
Tom Browder writes:
On Thu, Mar 6, 2014 at 1:36 PM, Stephen J. Turnbull step...@xemacs.org
wrote:
Barry Warsaw writes:
BTW Tom, are you trying to run MM2 and MM3 concurrently? I'd like
I do this already, but with Exim4 as MTA. It's not hard. Of course
if both installations
varun sharma writes:
Can i use buildbot for the server part and integrate it with
frontend suite ?
This is way too compact to understand what you're proposing. If you
mean configure a buildbot to build and test Mailman 3, and that's
it, no. This is Google Summer of *Code*, and you have to
Florian Fuchs writes:
One is the one-off command (with options) that outputs a result,
either on stdout or saved to a file. This could make for an
interesting project, but I think then it would really make more sense
(like Steve said) to extend the existing `mailman` command instead of
varun sharma writes:
Why would you use Django to build the tool as opposed to just a
python package?
I was thinking of expanding it like buildbot to include django
based GUI and detailed reports. So i thought we can use django, but
if we just want a command line tool, then python
hi guys,
I just added a link from Sprints to the GSoC 2014 page.
I have found it frustrating to see queries from interested students
about projects where I have no clue who the appropriate mentor might
be, and haven't seen any responses on-list. So ...
I took the liberty of adding a Potential
Hi,
I added a Mentor List (ie, roster) at the end of the project page,
and added (besides myself) Florian, Barry and Terri. I don't mind
having my address there (so added it) but didn't take liberties with
anybody else's mailbox.
Regards
___
Rajeev S writes:
The deliverables of the project would be, at the least,
- Command line tools to perform tasks in the mailman client docs
I think there should be one tool with multiple commands. These can be
implemented by separate commands in a directory off the normal PATH if
you
Abhilash Raj writes:
Hi,I have a pretty good understand of the mailman core, I would
love to co-mentor any project if I am allowed?
You're allowed. Lots of former students (and the occasional current
student as well!) are mentors.
Some of the following my sound harsh, and it is my private
Nicolas Karageuzian writes:
I encountered db lock using sqlite with mailman3 and tools.
Switching to postgres avoid the db locking states.
Maybe you should explore that way.
Hyperkitty moved to github so the lp ref is quite out of date for this
resource.
Thanks for the advice!
Rajeev S writes:
As mentioned, here is my approach towards the full anonymization
project.
AFAICS as far as described it will provide the outcomes you describe.
However, I don't understand the use case here. Most approaches use a
single secret ID for each user. This is not just a matter
Tom Browder writes:
We really appreciate your efforts to test the betas of Mailman 3. But
please do be aware that although there are sites already successfully
using Mailman 3 in production, the development team doesn't recommend
use of any of the components (core, Postorius, HyperKitty) in
Barry Warsaw writes:
On Feb 24, 2014, at 09:54 PM, Florian Fuchs wrote:
The good news: The Python Software Foundation was more successful
(congrats to Terri!), so we'll be able to participate under their
umbrella again. \o/
Much thanks to Terri and all involved. Looking forward to
Rajeev S writes:
I have implemented a mass subscription via file upload feature for
Postorious which can be found here.
https://code.launchpad.net/~rajeevs1992/mailman-rajeevs1992/trunk
How am I to submit a merge request to the Postorious repository?I tried to
propose a merge via
Zeel Shah writes:
I want to request any mentor out there please throw some light about these
two projects.
We're still in the application process. You're probably not going to
get a lot of love from mentors until after the 24th, when Google
announces the accepted orgs, or perhaps later if
Máirín Duffy writes:
By UX design I don't mean simply surface aesthetics, but designing the
interactions and workflows for new features and cleaning up what's
there, scoping out new features (e.g., right now Karen and I are working
out whether or not users should be able to follow
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