Hi,
I may have missed some topic, but why SRS
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sender_Rewriting_Scheme) doesn't come to
rescue here?
It isn't its original purpose?
Resigning outgoing messages with messaging server own DKIM's key.
Seem to be available by setuping mm_cfg.py:
-
On Fri, Apr 18, 2014 at 09:26:28AM +0200, Sylvain Viart wrote:
Hi,
I may have missed some topic, but why SRS
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sender_Rewriting_Scheme) doesn't come
to rescue here?
It isn't its original purpose?
Resigning outgoing messages with messaging server own DKIM's
Le 18/04/2014 09:41, Alain Williams a écrit :
I may have missed some topic, but why SRS
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sender_Rewriting_Scheme) doesn't come to rescue
here?
SRS rewrites the *envelope* sender.
My understanding is that the YAHOO DKIM uses the From: header, not the envelope
Sylvain Viart writes:
Le 18/04/2014 09:41, Alain Williams a écrit :
I may have missed some topic, but why SRS
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sender_Rewriting_Scheme) doesn't
come to rescue here?
SRS rewrites the *envelope* sender.
My understanding is that the YAHOO DKIM uses the
On Apr 15, 2014, at 2:11 PM, Jim Popovitch jim...@gmail.com wrote:
On Tue, Apr 15, 2014 at 2:05 PM, Lindsay Haisley fmo...@fmp.com wrote:
On Tue, 2014-04-15 at 12:38 -0400, Jim Popovitch wrote:
Just to be clear, all those domains (other than yahoo.com) will bounce
email to you if your list
On 04/15/2014 06:50 PM, Conrad G T Yoder wrote:
So it really doesn’t affect domain email hosted by Yahoo such as att.net,
sbcglobal.net, ymail.com, etc? Yahoo has not added a dmarc p=reject record
for email from these domains?
Short answer: That's correct.
Long answer:
Jim Popovitch writes:
On Tue, Apr 15, 2014 at 12:13 AM, Stephen J. Turnbull
step...@xemacs.org wrote:
Jim Popovitch writes:
Bingo! The dmarc folks (many of who are IETF participants) ignored
and performed an end-run around the standards process.
Not really. The basic
Keith Bierman wrote:
The obvious downside is that reply to poster stops working
It doesn't in the From: Munging/Message wrapping feature in Mailman
2.1.16+. The poster's From: is merged into her possibly empty Reply-To:.
--
Mark Sapiro m...@msapiro.netThe highway is for gamblers,
San
On 04/14/2014 09:19 PM, Lindsay Haisley wrote:
FWIW, here's a list of the DNs of subscriber addresses that got
unsubscribed last week from one of FMP's lists, ostensibly as a result
of the DMARC issue:
yahoo.com
hotmail.com
comcast.net
bellsouth.net
att.net
cityofgastonia.com
Seriously? AOL/MSN as well? My users are going to be pissed.
Who’s going to blink first here?
-Conrad
--
Is there a suspect in your family? Contact the Ministry of Information. Ring
100 00 00.
On Apr 15, 2014, at 9:04 AM, Mark Sapiro m...@msapiro.net wrote:
On 04/14/2014 09:19 PM,
On Tue, Apr 15, 2014 at 12:35 PM, Conrad G T Yoder
cgtyo...@alum.mit.edu wrote:
Seriously? AOL/MSN as well? My users are going to be pissed.
Just to be clear, all those domains (other than yahoo.com) will bounce
email to you if your list sends out an email from a yahoo.com
subscriber. It's
Ok, thanks for the clarification. I thought Mark was saying that these had
implemented the DMARC rules as well.
-Conrad
--
DO NOT FOLD, SPINDLE, MUTILATE
On Apr 15, 2014, at 12:38 PM, Jim Popovitch jim...@gmail.com wrote:
On Tue, Apr 15, 2014 at 12:35 PM, Conrad G T Yoder
On Tue, Apr 15, 2014 at 12:43 PM, Conrad G T Yoder
cgtyo...@alum.mit.edu wrote:
Ok, thanks for the clarification. I thought Mark was saying that these had
implemented the DMARC rules as well.
Well, technically they have implemented the DMARC rules. Yahoo.com
publishes a dmarc record (dig
Yes, sorry for my sloppy language. I appreciate the clarification.
-Conrad
On April 15, 2014 9:49:55 AM PDT, Jim Popovitch jim...@gmail.com wrote:
On Tue, Apr 15, 2014 at 12:43 PM, Conrad G T Yoder
cgtyo...@alum.mit.edu wrote:
Ok, thanks for the clarification. I thought Mark was saying that
On Tue, 2014-04-15 at 12:38 -0400, Jim Popovitch wrote:
Just to be clear, all those domains (other than yahoo.com) will bounce
email to you if your list sends out an email from a yahoo.com
subscriber. It's not the case that you need to prevent all those
other domains (AOL/MSN/etc) from
On Tue, Apr 15, 2014 at 2:05 PM, Lindsay Haisley fmo...@fmp.com wrote:
On Tue, 2014-04-15 at 12:38 -0400, Jim Popovitch wrote:
Just to be clear, all those domains (other than yahoo.com) will bounce
email to you if your list sends out an email from a yahoo.com
subscriber. It's not the case
On Tue, Apr 15, 2014 at 2:05 PM, Lindsay Haisley fmo...@fmp.com wrote:
So just to be clear, putting a damper on this at this point requires
_only_ that posts from yahoo.com be blocked from posting to a list. Is
this correct? This can be done by selectively unsubscribing (or
On 16 Apr 2014, at 4:05 am, Lindsay Haisley fmo...@fmp.com wrote:
So just to be clear, putting a damper on this at this point requires
_only_ that posts from yahoo.com be blocked from posting to a list. Is
this correct? This can be done by selectively unsubscribing (or
moderating) current
On Tue, Apr 15, 2014 at 4:17 PM, Peter Shute psh...@nuw.org.au wrote:
On 16 Apr 2014, at 4:05 am, Lindsay Haisley fmo...@fmp.com wrote:
So just to be clear, putting a damper on this at this point requires
_only_ that posts from yahoo.com be blocked from posting to a list. Is
this correct?
On 16 Apr 2014, at 6:23 am, Jim Popovitch jim...@gmail.com wrote:
On Tue, Apr 15, 2014 at 4:17 PM, Peter Shute psh...@nuw.org.au wrote:
On 16 Apr 2014, at 4:05 am, Lindsay Haisley fmo...@fmp.com wrote:
So just to be clear, putting a damper on this at this point requires
_only_ that posts
On Tue, Apr 15, 2014 at 9:50 PM, Conrad G T Yoder con...@yoders.org wrote:
On Apr 15, 2014, at 2:11 PM, Jim Popovitch jim...@gmail.com wrote:
On Tue, Apr 15, 2014 at 2:05 PM, Lindsay Haisley fmo...@fmp.com wrote:
On Tue, 2014-04-15 at 12:38 -0400, Jim Popovitch wrote:
Just to be clear, all
On Tue, 2014-04-15 at 21:58 -0400, Jim Popovitch wrote:
Correct. But that could all change tomorrow if they do add dmarc
records for those domains.
This is a pretty big deal, and it's been a week or more since Yahoo
pulled this stunt. What kind of blowback are they getting, and is there
any
On Tue, Apr 15, 2014 at 10:04 PM, Lindsay Haisley fmo...@fmp.com wrote:
On Tue, 2014-04-15 at 21:58 -0400, Jim Popovitch wrote:
Correct. But that could all change tomorrow if they do add dmarc
records for those domains.
This is a pretty big deal, and it's been a week or more since Yahoo
It finally occurred to me that this affects routine forwarding too. Even if
you implement SRS on the envelope, the header From is left alone, as per
RFC 5322.
It also affects a message from any of our users who authenticates with our
user and password but prefers to send with a yahoo.com
On 04/14/2014 06:46 AM, Joseph Brennan wrote:
It finally occurred to me that this affects routine forwarding too. Even
if you implement SRS on the envelope, the header From is left alone, as
per RFC 5322.
Not necessarily. If the message is actually from Yahoo, it will be DKIM
signed with
On 04/13/2014 06:03 PM, Jim Popovitch wrote:
On Sun, Apr 13, 2014 at 4:54 PM, Joseph Brennan
bren...@columbia.edu wrote:
Jim Popovitch jim...@gmail.com wrote:
DMARC works off of SPF as well.
Not really.
DMARC checks alignment of *both* DKIM and SPF, if either is broken
DMARC
On Mon, Apr 14, 2014 at 2:33 PM, Joe Sniderman
joseph.snider...@thoroquel.org wrote:
On 04/13/2014 06:03 PM, Jim Popovitch wrote:
On Sun, Apr 13, 2014 at 4:54 PM, Joseph Brennan
bren...@columbia.edu wrote:
Jim Popovitch jim...@gmail.com wrote:
DMARC works off of SPF as well.
Not really.
On Mon, 2014-04-14 at 14:41 -0400, Jim Popovitch wrote:
SPF does not check the From: header line, and that's where the
troubles begin with DMARC.
SPF checks sending IPs (of which your IPs won't match Yahoo's, thus
breaking DMARC)
Either an SPF failure or a DKIM failure will cause a
On Mon, Apr 14, 2014 at 3:16 PM, Lindsay Haisley fmo...@fmp.com wrote:
So what is being said here?
When a yahoo poster sends an email to your list, that email is
reflected to the rest of the other subscribers. Those other
subscribers may or may not check yahoo's dmarc policy before accepting
On Apr 14, 2014, at 5:51 PM, Jim Popovitch jim...@gmail.com wrote:
On Mon, Apr 14, 2014 at 3:16 PM, Lindsay Haisley fmo...@fmp.com wrote:
So what is being said here?
When a yahoo poster sends an email to your list, that email is
reflected to the rest of the other subscribers. Those other
On Mon, Apr 14, 2014 at 7:28 PM, Larry Stone lston...@stonejongleux.com wrote:
On Apr 14, 2014, at 5:51 PM, Jim Popovitch jim...@gmail.com wrote:
On Mon, Apr 14, 2014 at 3:16 PM, Lindsay Haisley fmo...@fmp.com wrote:
So what is being said here?
When a yahoo poster sends an email to your
On Mon, Apr 14, 2014 at 5:54 PM, Jim Popovitch jim...@gmail.com wrote:
The only true ways to handle dmarc messages (imho) are to reject posts
where the poster's domain clearly says to not forward (i.e.
p=reject)... OR... totally wrap the poster's email as an attachment
and change the From: to
On Mon, Apr 14, 2014 at 8:55 PM, Keith Bierman khb...@gmail.com wrote:
While the process of revising the RFC should have been followed, it does
seem that they are trying to solve a real problem.
Bingo! The dmarc folks (many of who are IETF participants) ignored
and performed an end-run around
On 04/14/2014 12:16 PM, Lindsay Haisley wrote:
This is confusing. I have a list using the DN autoharp.org. the
envelope sender is a VERP address with the recipient address embedded,
but the DN is autoharp.org, which passes SPF based on the A record for
it. The From header address is, of
On 4/14/14, 8:55 PM, Keith Bierman wrote:
On Mon, Apr 14, 2014 at 5:54 PM, Jim Popovitch jim...@gmail.com wrote:
The only true ways to handle dmarc messages (imho) are to reject posts
where the poster's domain clearly says to not forward (i.e.
p=reject)... OR... totally wrap the poster's
Keith Bierman writes:
While the process of revising the RFC should have been followed,
No revision of the RFC was made, and Yahoo! followed the RFC in
updating its own DMARC policy. That's where DMARC sucks[tm].
it does seem that they are trying to solve a real problem.
Perhaps.
Mail
On Tue, 2014-04-15 at 12:33 +0900, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:
Note that Yahoo! has initiated a denial of service attack on millions
of innocent list subscribers. *This is not a one-time problem.* This
will happen again every time a new domain changes its policy to
reject, because even if we
Jim Popovitch writes:
Bingo! The dmarc folks (many of who are IETF participants) ignored
and performed an end-run around the standards process.
Not really. The basic protocols (SPF and DKIM) are RFCs, and that's
really what the IETF process is for. What people (including bloated
corporate
On Mon, 2014-04-14 at 18:51 -0400, Jim Popovitch wrote:
On Mon, Apr 14, 2014 at 3:16 PM, Lindsay Haisley fmo...@fmp.com wrote:
So what is being said here?
When a yahoo poster sends an email to your list, that email is
reflected to the rest of the other subscribers. Those other
subscribers
On Tue, Apr 15, 2014 at 12:13 AM, Stephen J. Turnbull
step...@xemacs.org wrote:
Jim Popovitch writes:
Bingo! The dmarc folks (many of who are IETF participants) ignored
and performed an end-run around the standards process.
Not really. The basic protocols (SPF and DKIM) are RFCs, and
Hi - Starting this week, I've discovered that emails sent from yahoo members on my mailing lists, are not getting
delivered to other yahoo addresses on my mailing list, including the person who sent the message. My SMTP logs show
that the message is getting rejected (see below). I'm positive
On Sun, Apr 13, 2014 at 3:48 PM, Mark London m...@psfc.mit.edu wrote:
Hi - Starting this week, I've discovered that emails sent from yahoo members
on my mailing lists, are not getting delivered to other yahoo addresses on
my mailing list, including the person who sent the message. My SMTP logs
On 4/13/14, 3:48 PM, Mark London wrote:
Hi - Starting this week, I've discovered that emails sent from yahoo
members on my mailing lists, are not getting delivered to other yahoo
addresses on my mailing list, including the person who sent the
message. My SMTP logs show that the message is
On Sun, Apr 13, 2014 at 4:01 PM, Richard Damon rich...@damon-family.org wrote:
If you list modifies the message, in particularly either the subject
line or body, then the signature won't match and the message is supposed
to not be delivered.
It's worse than just modification of the
Jim Popovitch jim...@gmail.com wrote:
DMARC works off of SPF as well.
Not really. SPF does not check the From: header line, and that's where
the troubles begin with DMARC.
Joseph Brennan
Columbia University IT
--
Mailman-Users mailing
On Sun, Apr 13, 2014 at 4:54 PM, Joseph Brennan bren...@columbia.edu wrote:
Jim Popovitch jim...@gmail.com wrote:
DMARC works off of SPF as well.
Not really.
DMARC checks alignment of *both* DKIM and SPF, if either is broken DMARC fails.
SPF does not check the From: header line, and
On 04/13/2014 03:03 PM, Jim Popovitch wrote:
DMARC checks alignment of *both* DKIM and SPF, if either is broken DMARC
fails.
SPF does not check the From: header line, and that's where the
troubles begin with DMARC.
SPF checks sending IPs (of which your IPs won't match Yahoo's, thus
On 4/13/14, 6:17 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote:
On 04/13/2014 03:03 PM, Jim Popovitch wrote:
DMARC checks alignment of *both* DKIM and SPF, if either is broken DMARC
fails.
SPF does not check the From: header line, and that's where the
troubles begin with DMARC.
SPF checks sending IPs (of which
On 04/13/2014 03:17 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote:
There are weird issues though. It seems I can't post from my gmail
address to my yahoo group. I get a non-delivery notice from gmail. I'm
not sure why. The yahoo group exists and my gmail address is a member
with posting privileges.
My bad. I have
On 04/13/2014 03:17 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote:
On 04/13/2014 03:03 PM, Jim Popovitch wrote:
DMARC checks alignment of *both* DKIM and SPF, if either is broken DMARC
fails.
SPF does not check the From: header line, and that's where the
troubles begin with DMARC.
SPF checks sending IPs (of
On Sun, Apr 13, 2014 at 10:47 PM, Mark Sapiro m...@msapiro.net wrote:
On 04/13/2014 03:17 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote:
On 04/13/2014 03:03 PM, Jim Popovitch wrote:
DMARC checks alignment of *both* DKIM and SPF, if either is broken DMARC
fails.
SPF does not check the From: header line, and that's
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