Brad Knowles writes:
On 12/9/07, Cyndi Norwitz wrote:
I thought you earlier wrote that SpamAssassin *is* being run by the
ISP,
Correct.
but can't be used with Mailman.
No, that they haven't taken the steps to integrate it with MM yet and have
no immediate
Cyndi Norwitz writes:
Date: Sun, 9 Dec 2007 21:34:45 -0800
From: Mark Sapiro [EMAIL PROTECTED]
How about rejecting or discarding non-member posts instead of holding
them. does that help?
If the spam problem is too great, I may have to disallow non-member posts
except
Cyndi Norwitz writes:
This will not work in my situation for more than a certain percentage of my
non-member posts. The details aren't important (to this list anyway).
Sure, but you're being nibbled to death by mice. Everything that you
can offload onto other people is more time for you to
Allan Hansen writes:
That's interesting.
I run Mailman 2.1.5 (Mac OS X 10.4) and have the 'problem' that
when someone posts to two lists at a time, I get only one message. I
actually do want to get both for archival purposes. If this is not a
function of Mailman 2.1.5, I wonder where
Cyndi Norwitz writes:
On the other hand, bothering the ISP staff isn't what I want to do
But you'll bother the Mailman developers because they do it for free?
Think about it a little. You like your ISP because they don't charge
much, which is because they free ride on the work of projects
Allan Hansen writes:
One message from a subscriber's MUA goes to two lists in Mailman
because that person is addressing it using
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[subscriptions of poster and recipient to list1 and list2 verified]
Mailman is the actual recipient of this
Cyndi Norwitz writes:
Is there anything I can do? Is there anything my ISP can do? Is this a
new feature request?
Looks like one to me, a good one, too.
While we're requesting this kind of feature, I'd like to be able to
get at the text of subscription requests, too. My lists do get the
steve writes:
Ok, I found that if placed in /etc/cron.d the file is intended as a
crontab which has the userfield as part of the command.. so the
default crontab.in file is correct for that usage - but doesn't this
mean the documentation is INCORRECT to tell you to directly install
that
Jeffrey Goldberg writes:
On the whole, I have found these things so rare that it hasn't been a
real problem. However, in principle lists could easily be targeted,
so it is worth considering captchas.
Captchas have been discussed, and were not considered worthwhile.
(1) There are many
Mark Sapiro writes:
Brad Knowles wrote:
On 1/11/08, Egidijus Serplis wrote:
Maybe anyone can explain to me how to configure mailman, that list
members
can't post to this list. And enable non-members post to this list. In
other
words - i want members of list only get
Dennis Putnam writes:
Keep in mind this was a working system that started giving me trouble
after a restore.
Unfortunately, that's not really possible. People who do not have
access to your system can only match symptoms to cases they've seen in
the past. This particular symptom is
LuKreme writes:
On 6-Jan-2008, at 14:02, Mark Sapiro wrote:
Are there plans to enhance the web subscription form with a type of
captcha, or other technique to discourage bots?
There is no current plan.
There really should be.
Why? It's user-unfriendly and botnet-friendly
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Does one really need root privileges to install mailman?
You could probably make it work more or less, but to make things
secure you do need root privileges.
Is the above neglecting a fundamental principle?
Yes. Security. If your host allows you to do such
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Or maybe I should not allow them to choose X at all. Hope they can
read English.
Or, since you obviously can read English, you could translate the
strings and submit a patch.
--
Mailman-Users mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Is the above neglecting a fundamental principle?
SJT Yes. Security. If your host allows you to do such things, I strongly
SJT suggest you find one who won't. ;-)
My mom just spent $400 for me for 5 years at Dreamhost. What's the
worst that could
Chris Penn writes:
I have googled this question and there is only one suggestion on WLUG on
the web:
http://www.wlug.org.nz/MailManNotes
This issue seems to be the only thing not working at the moment and it
does not show up in the FAQs. What does it mean when I subscribe someone
SP writes:
I checked the mailman logs, but I can't find any error or any message
that can help debugging the problem...
Find the last few logs from Mailman and the MTA before the stoppage.
This may give experts some clue. (If I knew what to tell you to look
for, I would, but experts often
Brandon Sussman writes:
I have had good luck so far with Dreamhost's Mailman support - they have
some folks who seem to care and know Mailman fairly well.
That's interesting, considering that there was some hair-pulling over
on mailman-devel about possible problems with Dreamhost. (Totally
Odieresis [Gmail] writes:
I'm a newbie and I'm experiencing problems after my provider changed my
account.
I can't restart Mailman list service via SSH after West Host provider
upgraded my account to 3.0.
This is a provider problem, not a Mailman problem. Talk to your
provider.
If
Brad Knowles writes:
No search engine author in their right mind should ever consider
doing de-duplication on their own, although they might be willing to
provide that feature to customers who demand the option.
Google does.
--
Mikhail T. writes:
Whatever I code up will, naturally, need to be approved by the
project-maintainers. This is why securing their acceptance /in
principle/ is important before beginning the actual work.
This is false. Open source means you can do what you like, and
Mailman actually will
Mikael Hansen writes:
So I enjoy the roster concept which is outlined. Still, it seems odd
to me that the list server software can adequately decide on the
process of eliminating duplicates. To me, the roster concept implies
that duplicates should not have been sent by list members
Mel Sojka writes:
Folks I have an old server that is being hosted for a client. Because of
Phyton version it is running mailman 2.1.5 under sendmail. For some
unknown reason there seems to be a massive amount of spam going to the
list owner.
You can change the visible list owner
Mark Sapiro writes:
Dan Brown wrote:
Is there a way to digest [bounce messages] into either a specific
number of bounces or a timeframe so maybe at most for that many
bounces I get perhaps 14 notifications instead?
OTOH, this would seem to be a unique situation caused by importing a
Jan Steinman writes:
I seem to be gathering a fair number of unrequited pending
subscriptions on several mailing lists. I see them by grepping for
pending in /var/log/mailman/subscribe, and then checking for
corresponding new entries. I did this after one of my hosting
clients
Marvin Raab writes:
I've setup ver. 2.1.9 on Fedora 8. I used yum to install (can't find
'configure' but that's not really my question) and configured it using the
docs on the website including the cron section:
yum installations do not conform to the docs on the website. That's
the whole
Steve Burling writes:
wasn't getting marked as spam, but the behavior of Constant Contact's
mailer was causing red flags at our end that caused their mail to be
blocked.
Ooh! yea. UM always did play tough D!
Former-OSU-prof-shouldn't-find-much-to-like-about-UM-but-I-*like*-it-ly
Please don't hijack threads. Unless you know how to avoid that, that
means it is *rude* to reply to an unrelated message, *especially* if
you change the subject. In a threading MUA, it will appear that the
original message has already been answered, and their problem may get no
attention.
Rob Tanner writes:
File bin/check_perms, line 216, in checkarchives
print _(\
NameError: global name '_' is not defined
This is the conventional equivalent to GNU gettext used by most Python
programs. Find the definition of '_' which will either look like
def _(x):
# code here
Karl Zander writes:
We have asked members to whilelist the Mailman server IP and address.
For whatever reason, not everyone is able to do that. Does anyone know
if there is any type of feedback loop to this Barracuda Reputation
service?
I've seen it before occasionally; I was unable
Con Wieland writes:
version 2.1.4
The odd thing though is it has only been happening the last couple of
weeks
Could be due to a new poster with a busted MTA, or an old poster with
a busted MTA who recently started using non-ASCII in MIME headers.
Maybe it's fixed in recent Mailman,
Henrik Rasmussen writes:
UnicodeDecodeError: 'ascii' codec can't decode byte 0xf8 in
position 5: ordinal not in range(128)
Your user is sending mail with raw 8-bit characters (in this case
probably meaning ø) in the headers. This is forbidden by RFC 2822.
The universally accepted way to do
Eric Lee writes:
When I do the same thing from an email client -- sending out a message via
BCC to my Mailman list, coming from the same address (which is the list
administrator address anyway), everything works fine.
It's probably not coming from the same addresses. Note plural. IIRC
Henrik Rasmussen writes:
Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:
Your user is sending mail with raw 8-bit characters (in this case
probably meaning ø) in the headers. This is forbidden by RFC 2822.
The universally accepted way to do this is by using MIME encoded words.
That's plausible
Moving to -developers, reply-to set. Please keep Henrik in the loop.
Seems to be the same as
http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detailaid=1186819group_id=103atid=100103
Henrik Rasmussen writes:
Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:
Henrik Rasmussen writes:
Of course it's possible
Attila Kinali writes:
On Wed, 20 Feb 2008 05:15:58 -0600
Rick Harris [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] R=lookuphost T=remote_smtp defer (0): SMTP error
from remote mail server after initial connection: host g.mx.mail.yahoo.com
[206.190.53.191]: 421 4.7.0 [TS02]
Brian Carpenter writes:
[ IIRC it was Attila Kinali who wrote: ]
If yahoo wants to receive mails from my server (and i'm sure
they want because their users subscribed to my lists), then
they have to play nice like everyone else too.
I like your attitude!
You're welcome to like the
Attila Kinali writes:
This is just selective greylisting, which lots of sites use as a
blanket policy.
It's definitly not greylisting. Our server sends out a few dozen mails
a day on the low traffic lists to a few hundred on the high traffic ones.
Any greylisting that is half way
Attila Kinali writes:
It's just yahoo that behaves like a black sheep in this game.
But that's simply not true. AOL has a deservedly bad reputation, as
does Hotmail. I've had problems with a number of universities, as
well (deserved, in a sense, but it was damn hard to get off the ban
list
Brian Carpenter writes:
Well we have been using domain keys as per yahoo's instructions and I
haven't seen any reductions in yahoo's deferrals.
Well, they don't promise that any of those measures will get your mail
through. And, to be sure, if I were them, I would not count domain
keys as a
Charles Marcus writes:
No one has a 'Right' to talk to anyone else's mail server.
Everybody here concedes that, I think.
If they aren't playing well, document it: let anyone who uses your
services know that if THEY choose to use a problematic service, that is
their choice and their
Mark Sapiro writes:
Then I read further and found To participate in the program,
senders must sign their outbound emails with DomainKeys (DKIM is
not currently supported).
This is the second time in recent weeks that some large mail service
has used it's 600 lb. gorilla status to try
Brian Carpenter writes:
This wouldn't be a problem if they just applied a filter to that person's
e-mail address but to block an server's IP from sending any e-mail to all
their users? shudders
Hold that shudder ...
and none of the major e-mail providers are willing to come up with
a
Mark Sapiro writes:
That's not what I understood it to say. I understand they need to
authenticate me somehow as the person authorized to receive reports
about my mail to yahoo.com recipients, but I thought it said that in
order for me to participate in the feedback program at all, my
Attila Kinali writes:
It's still not graylisting. [...] The refused to talk to me
makes it clear that my server didn't even get a greeting, but above
error message instead. So, yahoo doesn't even know who the sender
or recipient is. Ie, the whole thing is IP based.
OK, that's a lot
Jim Popovitch writes:
On Fri, Feb 22, 2008 at 4:03 PM, Mark Sapiro [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
So, the problem seems to appear with commas too which makes me wonder
if this can be resolved with this:
urlpat = re.compile(r'(\w+://[^)\s]+?)(\.|,)?(\s|$)') # URLs in text
but then I
Odieresis [Gmail] writes:
Do you think there is an easier way to do these cleanings? A sort of
webmail interface?
Maybe this could be done in the long run, but the problem is finding a
given message in the large mailbox. This can't be done effectively
over the web. If you have shell
Ki Song writes:
The only error message I get when starting my server is the following:
NameVirtualHost myipaddress has no VirtualHosts mailman
I don't know what the trailing mailman is about, but the above
basically means that as far as Apache is concerned you don't have any
named hosts.
Darrell Burkey writes:
It just seems odd that this is not possible.
Well, it would be if MUA writers implemented the MIME definitions
precisely. But they don't.
Indeed, they are so insistent about their precious HTML
Why do they want HTML, anyway? Do they say? Maybe there's some way
to
Hank van Cleef writes:
[Gmail users complain] that they do not see a copy of their posts
to the list reflected back to them.
It's a FAQ:
http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=showfile=faq02.008.htp
Discussion in the archives of this list indicates it's a common
request to Google to
Dragon writes:
I meant to send this to the list but it only went out to the OP, damned
reply-to setting on this list (I know, I know, y'all think it is good, I
STILL disagree and always will).
Hey, feel free to write an RFC and update 2822. For now, Reply-To is
an author header, and
Mark Sapiro writes:
It appears non-standard in at least a few obvious ways, and I have no
way to know in what others. You might find answers using Mandriva
support resources
Mandrake always prided itself on the excellence of its user and admin
interfaces, and did not hesitate to change
Dragon writes:
The problem is that the relevant RFC document is vague on
how that should be handled and displayed in the MUA.
I don't see that it's vague at all. RFC 2822 provides several headers
for identifying various roles in transmitting the message on behalf of
the author. The From
Carlos Corredor writes:
My question: I want to do a Mass Subscription, but would like to include
First Name and Last Name in each record. I could not find anywhere how to do
this. Is it possible? If so, how?
Use the format
First Last [EMAIL PROTECTED]
If there are non-letters in the name
Barry Warsaw writes:
Do many sites split the responsibilities between mail and list
care and feeding?
I suspect that it's pretty common in cases where people get a VMware
guest OS or soemthing like that. The hosting company / ISP is going
to want to keep close watch on port 25, but list and
Jon Slater writes:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
I'm using SpamAssassin but these are coming in with spam score like -0.6
In your SA local rules file add some rules that bump messages that are
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] +10 points. Then figure out what the content
Mark Sapiro writes:
If something that looks like a 'request' is sent to the list posting
address, and the General Options administrivia setting is set to Yes,
that message is held for approval as a post, not as a request, so a
human can decide if it is a misdirected request or a valid
BTW, the *real* problem here is that we *really* need to free up Mark
for doing more development. Whether he likes it or not. ;-)
Jim Popovitch writes:
On Tue, Apr 15, 2008 at 11:56 AM, Mark Sapiro [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
There are two security issues mentioned in the announcement.
Barry Warsaw writes:
BTW, it's not our responsibility to do anything other than patch the
Mailman source distribution.
I think you've missed at least part of Jim's point ...
Then you can decide which of our changes to cherry pick into your
own running servers, and easily merge in your
Barry Warsaw writes:
There is some validity to the complaint that new releases are blocked
on translation updates. Our translators do a wonderful, and greatly
appreciated job, but they're disadvantaged by our suboptimal
translation process.
Fixing that won't help security
Darren G Pifer writes:
The issue was no such much the moderator had to approve the message
because of the size but the fact that the e-mail messages to the list
are rather large.
This stripping would be almost trivial except that it's difficult to
predict what the URL would be (archiving
Dave Hillam writes:
I reckon that it's more of a presentation issue - why tell people to
contact the listadmin, if there's nothing that can be done? On the
other hand, it gives a point of contact/reassurance for list members
who may get confused/upset at this, I suppose.
That's the main
On 5/3/08, Zbigniew Szalbot wrote:
If the unsubscribe script cannot be exploited remotely, then
I do not see probing as a real threat (especially if additionally secured
by some captcha code or the like).
Note that people seem to really want one-click unsubscription.
Khalil Abbas writes:
I found another cheap service, $30/month dedicated servers and they
offer unlimited emails per day.. but its characteristics are a bit
low: AMD, 512 MB RAM ..
Brad already gave you the non-technical answer: no, very likely that
is not going to work for you.
You should
Mark Sapiro writes:
Maickel Pandie wrote:
I'm new in mailman but I want to try to change the queue proceess
method from FIFO to size based...
how make it happen??
1) Learn Python.
2) Read and understand Mailman/Queue/Switchboard.py, particularly the
Switchboard.files()
David Newman writes:
Initially I thought the changes I made to mailman would result in a
unique Message-ID per recipient, but this does not appear to be the case.
Yeah, somebody actually said that, but they really meant the
Return-Path. Changing Message-ID on regular posts would violate
Michael Welch writes:
Right, there's lots broken at Topica. But I sure do like the intent
of their obscuration technique.
I don't. What they're obscuring is that it doesn't work.
--
Mailman-Users mailing list
Mailman-Users@python.org
Christopher Adams writes:
If I send a message to test7-request and add the word 'subscribe', I get a
message back like this:
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; on behalf of;
[EMAIL PROTECTED][EMAIL PROTECTED]
It looks to me like the '+' in the address (the part bracketed by
'') has been
Jon Slater writes:
Does anyone have a guess-timate for the MM 3.0 release?
Barry Warsaw is the person to ask directly, or on Mailman-Developers.
It's definitely not something you want to hold your breath for;
there's definitely plans for Mailman 2.2.
Allan Odgaard writes:
[ repetitive lobbying removed ]
Please stop lobbying, period, and move these discussions off this
list. We heard you the first time, you've been told the appropriate
venue. Now this is just noise interfering with helping users with
their everyday problems.
If you really
Brad Knowles writes:
Then you must not have read the FAQ I referenced.
Please, Brad, don't go there. You know he's not going to change his
mind, neither are you, or me, but what matters is that neither will
Barry. So it's a moot point.
--
Barry Finkel writes:
Hank van Cleef [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote, in part,
It seems to me that
stat=Service unavailable
means that the inbound mailer is not available at the moment.
The problem that we're facing is that there are a few people who don't
think[1] that the RFCs apply
Brad Knowles writes:
I don't see a problem with having this discussion continue on the
mailman-users list for now (at least you'll get the opportunity for some
feedback from other mailman list/site admins who are not on the
mailman-developers list),
I think the very political nature
Brad Knowles writes:
Moreover, the Mailman code is written in Python, so there shouldn't
be any need to compile anything with any C compiler.
The CGI and MTA interface wrappers are written in C, but they're
really really simple (as anything security-critical should be).
It's not going to
Barry Finkel writes:
I have not yet installed my 2.1.11 package on my test machine, but
my records show that I had the identical messages when I built my
2.1.9 package, which I use in production. I am not an expert in the
C language and what type conversions are done. But I would not
Cyndi Norwitz writes:
I appreciate your input. I am curious what other server owners/
ISP's do. From the talk on this list, it would seem that any
restriction on what listowners can do is considered a violation.
Well, I wouldn't go so far as to call it a violation, but I would not
want
Cyndi Norwitz writes:
There are two differences with email: 1) there are only spotty and poorly
enforced laws against junk email (in part because a lot of it is
international and/or hidden) and 2) sending snail mail, faxes, or phoning
all cost money--sending emails costs little to
Larry Stone writes:
Brad, I'm glad you added that. But it raises an interesting topic of
discussion which is why is e-mail held to a different standard than
other means of communication.
Because it's different. First, the costs are several orders of
magnitude cheaper. Second, identifying
Michael Welch writes:
I think that bulk adding is a dangerous thing to allow, from the
host's viewpoint at a minimum. Who's to say what unscrupulous
a-holes are ready to take advantage of that ability.
Very dumb ones. I really don't see a major social problem here; as a
host, make your
Brad Knowles writes:
I know there are people who use it responsibly, which is why I
don't advocate too strongly for its removal. But that doesn't mean
that it doesn't get abused, or that we shouldn't do things to try
to curb that abuse.
I have to disagree. Anything that can be done
Zbigniew Szalbot writes:
1/ Mailman as a discussion list - like the one we're having here. I
don't imagine spammers would be setting up their lists as discussion
list, would they? I don't actually imagine big time spammers using
mailman. They're all about botnets.
Big time spammers
Mark Sapiro writes:
I have no idea how this happened. I suspect somehow instead of
mailman.mbox/mailman.mbox being a file, it somehow became a link back
to its parent. If this is the case, even rm -rf
/var/lib/mailman/archives/mailman.mbox may not succeed because it may
loop
Simon writes:
On 7/17/2008, Mark Sapiro ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
See the documentation in Defaults.py for the settings
ARCHIVER_CLOBBER_DATE_POLICY = 2
Ah, perfect, thanks... so setting it to 1 will always use the received date.
I'm wondering what the disadvantages to this
Mike Brown writes:
I then changed the hosts file to look like:
192.168.1.1 mrvideo vidiot.com www.vidiot.com loghost
Are you sure 192.168.1.1 isn't the DSL box? 192.168.1.1 is grabbed
for themselves by many DSL boxes. But whatever.
Anyway, changing that to 127.0.0.1 should do what
Brad Knowles writes:
That implies their client is misconfigured and that should be their problem
and not ours. Right?
Actually, all existing clients are pretty much broken, since they
don't allow you to enforce your own CSS. But I guess they figure that
nearly all existing users are
Andrew Hodgson writes:
The question is: Do many listadmins get similar questions, and is
there any merit for requesting that Mailman uses the list address
only in the Sender header?
I've never seen it on my lists ;-), but it's definitely a FAQ.
I'm opposed to putting the list address in
2822,
Stephen J. Turnbull [EMAIL PROTECTED]
is not, and must be quoted
Stephen J. Turnbull [EMAIL PROTECTED]
(I don't think Mailman checks for this, but given that AFAICT from the
source, Mailman should not behave the way you describe, it's a guess.)
First, is this a setting
Simon writes:
I had to create the alias in postfixadmin, as:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] aliased to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Is this normal? Or should mailman be creating this alias too?
Mailman should not create that alias. Those are different domains, in
many installations different hosts with
Webmaster PF writes:
1. How to filter out Out of Office replies to the list.
This is almost impossible to do genericly, because the presence of an
autoreply to the list indicates that that member is using stupid
software (it's very easy to detect a standard mailing list post
because it
Stephen J. Turnbull writes:
2. Is there a way to prevent duplicate postings when people cross post?
No. This cannot be done reliably
I'll stand by that if you want 100.00% exclusion, but Mark's
suggestion of regular_exclude_lists should work 99% of the time, for
most Mailman sites
Mark Sapiro writes:
Zbigniew Szalbot wrote:
Actually, when lists are personalized you can always use Message-ID to
look up your nice AOL citizen. That't what I do as I use full
personalization option.
I'm confused. How do you use the Message-ID for this? Even when
messages
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
The most problematic domains are rediffmail.com, big.or.jp,
163.com, ospaz.ru and 126.com. The bounce messages from 163.com
and 126.com (and I think big.or.jp) are written in the native
character sets (Chinese or Japanese),
163.com and 126.com are big spam
Richard Barrett writes:
I guess it is not intended that the old approach with sourceforge of
putting enhancements into the tracker with patch files attached,
should be followed with Launchpad. I expect someone is going to tell
me I should create my own branches of Mailman on
Brad Knowles writes:
Khalil Abbas wrote:
and please, leave the type of mailing aside, if you're a non believer
don't offend other people, I didn't try to shove my beliefs into your
faces and I was really offended with what you said about religion..
I've seen the same sort of
Christopher Waltham writes:
I have a server with 873 lists (yes really!), but only one seems to be
misbehaving. Specifically, when you go to the admin web interface and
click on Membership Management, I get an error saying:
admin(5901): UnicodeDecodeError: 'ascii' codec can't decode
Tecru Info writes:
We are having a problem where half the email list is getting
unsubscribed. Has this happened to anyone? The people did not
unsubscribe themselves.
Things to check:
(1) You have been (mis)identified as a spammer, and ISPs are bouncing
your mail. This causes the
J.R. Constance writes:
Is there any way to filter these emails sent to the bounce address so
that if they are spam they just get discarded.
Procmail, ClamAV, etc. You should be running such filters on all
received mail. If you can't reconfigure the MTA to do this for some
reason, the
Michael Welch writes:
Right, that must be because this list's Sender: header does not
look like a real email address. I wonder why ours are different.
It's one of the VERP settings. While true VERP is done by the
MTA, not by agents like Mailman, the basic idea is the same: to
personalize
Brad Knowles writes:
VERP is available on Mailman 2.1.5, but it does have to be enabled in the
configuration file, before you can actually see the option in the web admin
UI for your list(s).
OK, so that probably was a deliberate decision and won't fly on his ISP.
Which is actually
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
I still haven't figured out quite how to solve the problem. In
theory we could use some other tool to perform the gateway
operation. Instead of passing Usenet postings directly to Mailman
it would mail them to [EMAIL PROTECTED] where they would get
the spam
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