Re: [Marxism] Can Bernie Sanders Make the Democratic Party a Democratic Party? | The Indypendent

[Gary MacLennan via Marxism]

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The short answer is "NO". Just as Corbyn failed to make the British Labour
Party a democratic party Sanders will fail at any attempt to democractise
the Democrats.

That is not to say though that there are not real positives around his
campaign.

comradely

Gary

On Wed, Feb 26, 2020 at 10:55 AM Louis Proyect via Marxism <
marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu> wrote:

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>
> Ex-ISOer Danny Katch joins Todd Chretien, Paul Le Blanc,
> Keeanga-Yamahtta Taylor, Alan Maass, and Paul Heideman in a Road to
> Damascus conversion to the Democratic Party.
>
>
> https://indypendent.org/2020/02/can-bernie-sanders-make-the-democratic-party-a-democratic-party/
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[Marxism] Precarity goes to the movies

[Dennis Brasky via Marxism]

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https://workingclassstudies.wordpress.com/2020/02/24/precarity-goes-to-the-movies/
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Re: [Marxism] Sanders's "turnout" strategy not working

[John Reimann via Marxism]

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In the first place, in reply to Chris Slee's comments on how the red
baiting attacks on Sanders should be countered: Sure, we can counter it all
we like, but that's not the point. The point is that we socialists don't
exactly have the influence that the capitalist media does and those attacks
are likely to have a major effect.

Mark says we shouldn't be distracted by the "bullshit coverage and the
reality TV". But that too misses the point. Before we even start to think
about what we should do, we need to try to figure out some idea of what may
happen, what can influence things, as well as what seems to be happening.

David W. says that the general election will be completely different from
the primaries. In what sense does he mean that? If he's saying that a
candidate Sanders in the general election will come under far fiercer
attack than he has in the primaries? If so, then I agree with him (although
we'll see in tonight's Democratic debate).

Finally, to return to my original point: Sanders bases his strategy on the
claim that he will vastly increase the turnout of young people who don't
vote normally. Up until now, the evidence is that that is not the case.
That doesn't mean it won't change, but we cannot assume it will.

John Reimann

-- 
*“In politics, abstract terms conceal treachery.” *from "The Black
Jacobins" by C. L. R. James
Check out:https:http://oaklandsocialist.com also on Facebook
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Re: [Marxism] Sanders's "turnout" strategy not working

[STEVEN ROBINSON via Marxism]

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You are right that Nader was never officially a member of the Greens, but he 
worked closely with them going back to at least the mid 1990s..

Regarding the cautionary note, leaving aside the weaknesses of the organization 
itself, I understand that Hawkins has competition for the Green Party 
Presidential nomination.  How serious is that?  I saw some grumbling months ago 
from a Green Party supporter about Hawkins' position on Syria. Is that REALLY 
an issue?

SR



> On February 25, 2020 at 4:21 PM Dayne Goodwin  wrote:
> 
> On Tue, Feb 25, 2020 at 11:53 AM STEVEN ROBINSON via Marxism < 
> marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu mailto:marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu > wrote:
> 
> > > . . . It may well turn out to be the biggest opening the Greens 
> have had since Nader left the GP in 2004. SR
> > 
> > > 
> In case you or a reader don't know, Steven, Nader was never a member of 
> the Green Party; Nader let the Green Party run him as a candidate.  After 
> Nader's relative success in the 2000 presidential election, the Democrat 
> Party establishment successfully pressured Green Party leadership not to run 
> Nader again (Nader was willing to be the Green Party presidential candidate 
> again in 2004).
> 
> 
> > > 
> > > 


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[Marxism] Can Bernie Sanders Make the Democratic Party a Democratic Party? | The Indypendent

[Louis Proyect via Marxism]

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Ex-ISOer Danny Katch joins Todd Chretien, Paul Le Blanc, 
Keeanga-Yamahtta Taylor, Alan Maass, and Paul Heideman in a Road to 
Damascus conversion to the Democratic Party.


https://indypendent.org/2020/02/can-bernie-sanders-make-the-democratic-party-a-democratic-party/
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Re: [Marxism] Sanders's "turnout" strategy not working

[Dayne Goodwin via Marxism]

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On Tue, Feb 25, 2020 at 11:53 AM STEVEN ROBINSON via Marxism <
marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu> wrote:

>  . . . It may well turn out to be the biggest opening the Greens have had
> since Nader left the GP in 2004. SR
>

In case you or a reader don't know, Steven, Nader was never a member of the
Green Party; Nader let the Green Party run him as a candidate.  After
Nader's relative success in the 2000 presidential election, the Democrat
Party establishment successfully pressured Green Party leadership not to
run Nader again (Nader was willing to be the Green Party presidential
candidate again in 2004).

In regard to the Green Party now, note Mark's cautionary comment:
On Tue, Feb 25, 2020 at 1:08 PM Mark Lause via Marxism <
marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu> wrote:

Can something be done through the Greens?  Perhaps, if Howie is nominated.
> But don't expect the structure of the party to do it. Don't just cast your
> consumer preference.  It will take hundreds of committed radicals to get
> involved and build some sort of an organization or network of thousands.
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[Marxism] Amazon Go Grocery: First cashierless grocery store opens in Seattle | Fortune

[Louis Proyect via Marxism]

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https://fortune.com/2020/02/25/amazon-cashierless-store-seattle/
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[Marxism] What Will You Do If the Democrats Steal It from Sanders? - CounterPunch.org

[Louis Proyect via Marxism]

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https://www.counterpunch.org/2020/02/25/what-will-you-do-if-the-democrats-steal-it-from-sanders/
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Re: [Marxism] Sanders's "turnout" strategy not working

[Chris Slee via Marxism]

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Countering redbaiting should be combined with exposing the crimes of US 
imperialism.  For example, the problems of Cuba and Venezuela are largely due 
to the US economic blockades against those countries.  Sanders may not be 
willing to say this, but  it needs to be said.

Chris Slee

From: Marxism  on behalf of Michael 
Meeropol via Marxism 
Sent: Wednesday, 26 February 2020 1:33:25 AM
To: Chris Slee 
Subject: Re: [Marxism] Sanders's "turnout" strategy not working

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This whole focus on turnout in the primaries ignores one major fact ---
MANY democrats DON'T CARE who is nominated --- they want to beat Trump and
will come out to vote against him.   How else to explain the record
turnouts in 2018?

The most important thing we can do is to counter the rising tide of
anti-Sanders red-baiting.  I was unfortunate enough to be stuck in an
automobile dealer's waiting room while my car was serviced.  As in too many
public places, the TV was turned to Trump-TV (alias Fox) --- and the were
going on and on about Bernie supporting Castro and Venezuela and how
horrible those countries are ---

That's Trump's playbook and it is worth fighting against ---



> 
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Re: [Marxism] Syria: How Much Does the Pentagon Pay for the YPG?

[Louis Proyect via Marxism]

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On 2/25/20 4:09 PM, Chris Slee via Marxism wrote:

Because the Syrian Democratic Forces receive some aid from the US, Michael Probsting claims they 
are "mercenaries for US imperialism".  He says that "US imperialism controls the 
eastern part of Syria".


I wouldn't call them mercenaries myself. Mercenaries are guns for hire, 
after all. The only problem with the YPG was its refusal to join forces 
with the revolution. Now, as Malcolm X once said, the chickens are 
coming home to roost.

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Re: [Marxism] Syria: How Much Does the Pentagon Pay for the YPG?

[Chris Slee via Marxism]

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Because the Syrian Democratic Forces receive some aid from the US, Michael 
Probsting claims they are "mercenaries for US imperialism".  He says that "US 
imperialism controls the eastern part of Syria".

If he were to apply the same logic to Idlib province, he would say that Turkey 
controls most of Idlib, and that the rebels there are mercenaries for Turkey.

Turkey has aided rebel groups in Idlib since 2011.  It began stationing troops 
there in 2017.  But this has increased dramatically recently.

According to the Syrian Observatory for Human Rights, 2,850 Turkish trucks and 
military vehicles crossed into Syrian territory between February 2 and February 
24.  7,600 Turkish troops deployed to Idlib and Aleppo provinces.  The number 
of Turkish military posts rose to 43:

http://www.syriahr.com/en/?p=155721

This greatly exceeds the US presence in northeastern Syria.  Yet Probsting 
still talks of "the popular uprising in Syria", presumably referring to the 
rebels in Idlib.  The fact that these rebels are allied with Turkey against 
Assad does not lead him to call them mercenaries.

The fact that a group receives outside aid does not automatically make it a 
"mercenary".  I would not condemn a rebel group solely for receiving aid from 
Turkey to fight against the Assad regime.  

But Turkish aid has been used as a means of coopting rebel groups.  Those who 
joined Turkey in its invasions of Afrin and northeastern Syria have become 
mercenaries.

The SDF is fighting against ISIS because ISIS is a reactionary organisation, 
which oppresses women and religious minorities.  The US is fighting ISIS for 
its own reasons.  The fact that there is cooperation against a common enemy 
does not make the SDF mercenaries.

This does not mean that such cooperation is without problems and dangers.  The 
cooption of some Syrian rebel groups by Turkey shows the dangers.

Chris Slee

From: Marxism  on behalf of RKOB via 
Marxism 
Sent: Monday, 24 February 2020 9:21:11 PM
To: Chris Slee 
Subject: [Marxism] Syria: How Much Does the Pentagon Pay for the YPG?

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*Syria: How Much Does the Pentagon Pay for the YPG?*

*/On the regular subsidies of U.S. imperialism for its mercenaries in
Syria/*

/By Michael Pröbsting, //24 February 2020/

https://www.thecommunists.net/worldwide/africa-and-middle-east/syria-how-much-does-the-pentagon-pay-for-the-ypg/


--
Revolutionär-Kommunistische Organisation BEFREIUNG
(Österreichische Sektion der RCIT, 
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[Marxism] Iran's Deputy Health Minister Diagnosed With Coronavirus Just Day After Sweating Profusely On Live TV

[Dennis Brasky via Marxism]

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https://consent.yahoo.com/collectConsent?sessionId=1_cc-session_72a922e5-5ab3-469e-bb0a-9095ec4df410=en-gb=false
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Re: [Marxism] Sanders's "turnout" strategy not working

[Mark Lause via Marxism]

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David's right.  The media's sucking those stories about what Sanders
supporters did out of their thumbs.

The gut-level hatred of the Democratic establishment for Sanders is
downright rabid.  The batcrap crazy rant of Chris Matthews comparing
Sanders' victory in Nevada to Hitler's invasion of France was unusually
only in that Matthews is so clueless that he was saying out loud what the
Democratic allies in the media have been hinting at for months.  For a
while, they sought to coax reform-minded voters towards Warren, but when
she started showing strength, they began battering her as well.  Their only
objection to GOP Mayor Bloomberg is whether they can get him to pass his TV
audition.  The current holy war is about Sanders saying basically the same
thing that Obama said about Cuba.  We should remember that the Democratic
bosses would rather lose an election to the Republicans than to allow
themselves and their faction to be pushed from power.  They're already
making noise about Sanders being unsupportable, and I doubt they'll let it
get that far.

That said, we shouldn't be distracted by the bullshit coverage and the
reality TV.  What needs to concern us about voting and national election
campaigns is how we can use them to build something of substance that can
carry some political clout beyond the election.  What we need are not these
consumer satisfaction surveys but feet on the street, hands at work
building for the future.  Going Democratic essentially sets that
consideration aside, which is the essence of why it's unacceptable.

Remember the big movements Obama supporters said we were going build in the
wake of his election?  Never happened.  Then, there were the big marches
against Trump on his inauguration, and the Democrats got control of the
local organizing groups, got everybody off the streets, and insisted that
the party would handle the problems.

Can something be done through the Greens?  Perhaps, if Howie is nominated.
But don't expect the structure of the party to do it. Don't just cast your
consumer preference.  It will take hundreds of committed radicals to get
involved and build some sort of an organization or network of thousands.

Cheers,
Mark L.
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Re: [Marxism] Sanders's "turnout" strategy not working

[DW via Marxism]

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Steve R. wrote: "A substantial portion of Sanders supporters in 2016 did
not vote for Clinton, basically abstaining. A fact the Democrat leadership
frequently trumpets."

Yes, but...

The far more important point never made (usually, it's made on CNN talking
heads once in a while) is that it was "Clinton supporters", that is the
Black and working class base that voted for Obama 2 times that didn't show
up to vote in *enough* numbers in a few districts in Wisconsin and Michagan
that put Trump in the WH: not "Sanders supporters". So the Dems leadership
doesn't learn. Every poll *after* those elections in 2016 showed Sanders
beating Trump *especially* on those two states. Who are the assholes now?

Of course Sanders didn't face a media red-baiting campaign then either, or
not as much as one as we see today. Red-baiting *does* work, don't think it
won't. It will likely be enough to swing those states in favor of Trump
last time to remain so this time.

My only point is that these are the primary elections. The general election
will be completely different.

David W.
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[Marxism] Excellent reply from Dave Lindorff answering the Cuba-baiting of Sanders

[Dennis Brasky via Marxism]

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I'll defend Castro. He fought a revolution that ousted the Mob-run Batista
dictator, closed down the mob run casinos, and kicked out the Western
owners of the sugar plantations, elevated the peasant class, gave them a
world-class health care system and made the largely illiterate country into
the most literate nation in Latin America. Okay, because the US, imposing a
tight embargo on Cuba after the expropriation on US corporate assets there,
drove Castro and his government into the arms of the Stalinist Soviet
Union, he ended up adopting a lot of Soviet economic ideas and governing
methods, and became enamored of his own indispensability to the
revolution's success. That part wasn't so good, but I'll agree with Bernie
that Castro did a lot for the Cuban people. I'll also say that had the US
not been so rabidly anti-Communist, and more willing to adopt friendly
relations with a Marxist, as it did with Tito in Yugoslavia, Cuba might
have evolved into a much gentler socialist society, especially if the
embargo had not existed.
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Re: [Marxism] Sanders's "turnout" strategy not working

[Michael Meeropol via Marxism]

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Sorry Dennis -- but I've already thrown in my lot with the "FASCISM IS
COMING, THE WORLD IS BURNING" crew  I know that this is a (miniscule?)
minority position on this list ---

I know that the majority of people here do not accept the analogy to the
refusal of Communists and Socialists to make common cause against Hitler
--- but that is the (heretical?) reason why I am "toadying" for a worthless
party ---

So that is why even a horrible corporate democrat is to be preferred to
Trump ---

That person would owe his/her presidency to the energized youth and people
of color --- and unlike Obama will have to deliver in order to get
re-elected --

Lessons learned by the disappointments of the Obama administration MIGHT
actually lead to an upsurge in activism that will keep the ball rolling ---

We know what we'll get with Trump -- more judges, more support for
polluters and fossil fuels, more validating racism and xenophobia --- the
planet may already be too far gone but it will DEFINITELY be with four more
years of Trump 

Therefore, I think almost any Dem alternative would be qualitatively better
than Trump ---

But you're probably right --- such sentiments are probably not very useful
on a Marxist discussion list ---

On Tue, Feb 25, 2020 at 1:29 PM Dennis Brasky  wrote:

>
>
>>
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Re: [Marxism] Sanders's "turnout" strategy not working

[STEVEN ROBINSON via Marxism]

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A substantial portion of Sanders supporters in 2016 did not vote for Clinton, 
basically abstaining. A fact the Democrat leadership frequently trumpets.

If - as I believe - Sanders is again cheated, the anger of the supporters will 
likely be even greater than it was back in 2016 and it was intense then (still 
is).  Seems this would give an opening for the Green Party, to urge those 
supporters to support and vote for Hawkins. Given the inevitable fury of the 
Sanders movement at being cheated, I think we would find a most receptive 
audience. It may well turn out to be the biggest opening the Greens have had 
since Nader left the GP in 2004. SR


> On February 25, 2020 at 10:34 AM Dennis Brasky via Marxism 
> If Bernie is cheated out of the nomination as was the case in 2016 and
> declares his independence from the Dems and runs a third party campaign,  I
> would do whatever I could to support it. If he repeats his surrender of
> four years ago, we need to get behind the candidacy of Howie Hawkins of the
> Green Party.
> 
> >
> >
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Re: [Marxism] Sanders's "turnout" strategy not working

[Dennis Brasky via Marxism]

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> Michael - While I respect you for much of the political work you have
> done, I must say that your cheerleading for the Democratic Party is a bit
> nauseating on a MARXIST list!
>
> "Whoever the Dems choose"??? When did you become such a toady to this
> worthless party? And what if it isn't Sanders but some moderate,
> pro-corporate slug - fill in the blank, the Dems have many of them. In the
> name of a short-sighted Anyone but Trump hysteria, what would we get if one
> of them defeats Trump in November?
>
> We'd get a "savior" who is unwilling to address any of the changes that
> tens of millions of Americans now demand;
> continued exorbitant medical bills/insurance/Big Pharma ripoffs,
> college tuition that takes decades for young people to pay back,
> more bowing to the demands of banks,
> the rise of more billionaires who don't have to pay as much in taxes as
> much of the working class,
>
> Wouldn’t that disappointment four years later produce another Trump, as it
> did in 2016 when 5 million who voted for Obama in 2012 STAYED HOME,
> frustrated and demoralized that the Dems are an all-talk/do-nothing party??
>

If Bernie is cheated out of the nomination as was the case in 2016 and
declares his independence from the Dems and runs a third party campaign,  I
would do whatever I could to support it. If he repeats his surrender of
four years ago, we need to get behind the candidacy of Howie Hawkins of the
Green Party.

>
> On Tue, Feb 25, 2020 at 11:26 AM Michael Meeropol via Marxism
>
>>
>> THEREFORE, it is most appropriate that everybody vote for the person they
>> like the best  and then work like Hell for WHOEVER the Dems choose ...
>>
>>
>>
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Re: [Marxism] Sanders's "turnout" strategy not working

[Dennis Brasky via Marxism]

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Michael - While I respect you for much of the political work you have done,
I must say that your cheerleading for the Democratic Party is a bit
nauseating on a MARXIST list!

"Whoever the Dems choose"??? When did you become such a toady to this
worthless party? And what if it isn't Sanders but some moderate,
pro-corporate slug - fill in the blank, the Dems have many of them. In the
name of a short-sighted Anyone but Trump hysteria, what would we get if one
of them defeats Trump in November?

We'd get a "savior" who is unwilling to address any of the changes that
tens of millions of Americans now demand;
continued exorbitant medical bills/insurance/Big Pharma ripoffs,
college tuition that takes decades for young people to pay back,
more bowing to the demands of banks,
the rise of more billionaires who don't have to pay as much in taxes as
much of the working class,

Wouldn’t that disappointment four years later produce another Trump, as it
did in 2016 when 5 million who voted for Obama in 2012 STAYED HOME,
frustrated and demoralized that the Dems are an all-talk/do-nothing party??

On Tue, Feb 25, 2020 at 11:26 AM Michael Meeropol via Marxism

>
> THEREFORE, it is most appropriate that everybody vote for the person they
> like the best  and then work like Hell for WHOEVER the Dems choose ...
>
>
>
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Re: [Marxism] Fwd: Mailman privacy alert

[Les Schaffer via Marxism]

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your subscription is alive and well. the message appears because you are 
subbing when already subbed. so the question is why didnt you receive a 
subset of today's posts. i dont see any bounce warnings to the 
moderators for you.


next time you get a bounce message as before write me offlist and i will 
check it out.


Les

On 2/25/20 12:03 PM, STEVEN ROBINSON via Marxism wrote:

I thought I was unsubbed from Marxmail because, except for one email early in 
the day, I got none of the posts from yesterday or early today.  So I resubbed 
and got the message below.

Some weeks ago I got a bounce warning threatening me with being unsubbed unless 
I responded, which I did. Everything went well until yesterday.

Evidently there is some sort of problem but don't know whether it is at your 
end or mine as I don't seem to be having similar problems with my yahoo or io 
groups.

A

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[Marxism] Moser submission

[Richard Moser via Marxism]

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You Can’t Go Home Again: The Liberal State Is No More

https://befreedom.co/2019/01/24/you-cant-go-home-again-the-liberal-state-is-no-more/
 





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[Marxism] Fwd: Mailman privacy alert

[STEVEN ROBINSON via Marxism]

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I thought I was unsubbed from Marxmail because, except for one email early in 
the day, I got none of the posts from yesterday or early today.  So I resubbed 
and got the message below.

Some weeks ago I got a bounce warning threatening me with being unsubbed unless 
I responded, which I did. Everything went well until yesterday.

Evidently there is some sort of problem but don't know whether it is at your 
end or mine as I don't seem to be having similar problems with my yahoo or io 
groups.

Anyway, if there is something you can do to help, I would appreciate it.

SR 


> -- Original Message --
> From: marxism-boun...@lists.csbs.utah.edu
> To: srobi...@comcast.net
> Date: February 25, 2020 at 8:48 AM
> Subject: Mailman privacy alert
> 
> An attempt was made to subscribe your address to the mailing list
> marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu.  You are already subscribed to this mailing list.
> 
> Note that the list membership is not public, so it is possible that a bad
> person was trying to probe the list for its membership.  This would be a
> privacy violation if we let them do this, but we didn't.
> 
> If you submitted the subscription request and forgot that you were already
> subscribed to the list, then you can ignore this message.  If you suspect that
> an attempt is being made to covertly discover whether you are a member of this
> list, and you are worried about your privacy, then feel free to send a message
> to the list administrator at marxism-ow...@lists.csbs.utah.edu.
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Re: [Marxism] Sanders's "turnout" strategy not working

[Michael Meeropol via Marxism]

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John is 100% right -- WE JUST DON'T KNOW --- (that's why sports teams play
the games rather than award the trophy to the team with the best record
going into the tournament!) --

THEREFORE, it is most appropriate that everybody vote for the person they
like the best  and then work like Hell for WHOEVER the Dems choose ...

On Tue, Feb 25, 2020 at 10:39 AM John Reimann <1999wild...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Michael Meeropol is dealing with a different issue. Yes, many voters even
> including former Republican voters, loathe and want to defeat Trump. That
> was proven in the 2018 elections, which had a record turnout for a midterm
> election. But that vote went to middle-of-the-road Democrats. Of the 41
> seats that were "flipped", every single one went to such Democrats. There
> were a few seats that were considered winnable for Democrats in which a
> Sanders-type candidate ran. Those seats weren't flipped. And so far, the
> traditionally non-voting youth have not turned out to vote for Sanders in
> any large numbers.
>
> This doesn't necessarily mean that it will be the same this November, or
> even later in the primary season. It's possible that if the Berniemobile
> gathers momentum, this will inspire this layer of traditional non-voters.
> The point is that it has not done so until this point.
>
> Of course, if Sanders is the nominee we will see an avalanche of
> red-baiting, as well as attacks on Medicare for all. The point is that this
> could very well have an affect on the middle-of-the-road voters who flipped
> those 41 seats in 2018, and unless there is a new layer of radicalized
> youth who turn out, the result of a Sanders-led Democratic ticket could be
> very dire... as could the exact opposite.
>
> The leadership of the Democratic Party who are certain that Sanders will
> lead them to disaster are lost in the wilderness. But so are those who are
> certain that Sanders would handily defeat Trump. My point is that we simply
> don't know, not any more than those meteorologists who try to predict the
> track of a hurricane.
>
> John Reimann
>
> On Tue, Feb 25, 2020 at 6:41 AM Michael Meeropol 
> wrote:
>
>> This whole focus on turnout in the primaries ignores one major fact ---
>> MANY democrats DON'T CARE who is nominated --- they want to beat Trump and
>> will come out to vote against him.   How else to explain the record
>> turnouts in 2018?
>>
>> The most important thing we can do is to counter the rising tide of
>> anti-Sanders red-baiting.  I was unfortunate enough to be stuck in an
>> automobile dealer's waiting room while my car was serviced.  As in too many
>> public places, the TV was turned to Trump-TV (alias Fox) --- and the were
>> going on and on about Bernie supporting Castro and Venezuela and how
>> horrible those countries are ---
>>
>> That's Trump's playbook and it is worth fighting against ---
>>
>>
>> 
>>> 
>>
>>
>
> --
> *“In politics, abstract terms conceal treachery.” *from "The Black
> Jacobins" by C. L. R. James
> Check out:https:http://oaklandsocialist.com also on Facebook
>
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Re: [Marxism] Sanders's "turnout" strategy not working

[John Reimann via Marxism]

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Michael Meeropol is dealing with a different issue. Yes, many voters even
including former Republican voters, loathe and want to defeat Trump. That
was proven in the 2018 elections, which had a record turnout for a midterm
election. But that vote went to middle-of-the-road Democrats. Of the 41
seats that were "flipped", every single one went to such Democrats. There
were a few seats that were considered winnable for Democrats in which a
Sanders-type candidate ran. Those seats weren't flipped. And so far, the
traditionally non-voting youth have not turned out to vote for Sanders in
any large numbers.

This doesn't necessarily mean that it will be the same this November, or
even later in the primary season. It's possible that if the Berniemobile
gathers momentum, this will inspire this layer of traditional non-voters.
The point is that it has not done so until this point.

Of course, if Sanders is the nominee we will see an avalanche of
red-baiting, as well as attacks on Medicare for all. The point is that this
could very well have an affect on the middle-of-the-road voters who flipped
those 41 seats in 2018, and unless there is a new layer of radicalized
youth who turn out, the result of a Sanders-led Democratic ticket could be
very dire... as could the exact opposite.

The leadership of the Democratic Party who are certain that Sanders will
lead them to disaster are lost in the wilderness. But so are those who are
certain that Sanders would handily defeat Trump. My point is that we simply
don't know, not any more than those meteorologists who try to predict the
track of a hurricane.

John Reimann

On Tue, Feb 25, 2020 at 6:41 AM Michael Meeropol  wrote:

> This whole focus on turnout in the primaries ignores one major fact ---
> MANY democrats DON'T CARE who is nominated --- they want to beat Trump and
> will come out to vote against him.   How else to explain the record
> turnouts in 2018?
>
> The most important thing we can do is to counter the rising tide of
> anti-Sanders red-baiting.  I was unfortunate enough to be stuck in an
> automobile dealer's waiting room while my car was serviced.  As in too many
> public places, the TV was turned to Trump-TV (alias Fox) --- and the were
> going on and on about Bernie supporting Castro and Venezuela and how
> horrible those countries are ---
>
> That's Trump's playbook and it is worth fighting against ---
>
>
> 
>> 
>
>

-- 
*“In politics, abstract terms conceal treachery.” *from "The Black
Jacobins" by C. L. R. James
Check out:https:http://oaklandsocialist.com also on Facebook
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Re: [Marxism] Sanders's "turnout" strategy not working

[Michael Meeropol via Marxism]

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This whole focus on turnout in the primaries ignores one major fact ---
MANY democrats DON'T CARE who is nominated --- they want to beat Trump and
will come out to vote against him.   How else to explain the record
turnouts in 2018?

The most important thing we can do is to counter the rising tide of
anti-Sanders red-baiting.  I was unfortunate enough to be stuck in an
automobile dealer's waiting room while my car was serviced.  As in too many
public places, the TV was turned to Trump-TV (alias Fox) --- and the were
going on and on about Bernie supporting Castro and Venezuela and how
horrible those countries are ---

That's Trump's playbook and it is worth fighting against ---



> 
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[Marxism] James Baldwin’s Presentation of Malcolm X | Washington Babylon

[Andrew Stewart via Marxism]

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https://washingtonbabylon.com/james-baldwin-malcolm-x/


Best regards,
Andrew Stewart 
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[Marxism] [UCE] The Young Lords: Luchadores Para La Gente

[Ron Jacobs via Marxism]

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http://stillhomeron.blogspot.com/2020/02/the-young-lords-luchadores-para-la-gente.html

-- 
Check out my newest books *Still Tripping in the Dark

*,* Capitalism
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and Daydream Sunset:60s Counterculture in the 70s
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[Marxism] What a Bernie Sanders Presidency Would Really Look Like | Left Voice

[Louis Proyect via Marxism]

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https://www.leftvoice.org/what-a-bernie-sanders-presidency-would-really-look-like
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[Marxism] Solnit: "Not because I could not speak but because they would not listen"

[Don Armitage via Marxism]

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https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/25/opinion/harvey-weinstein-verdict.html


NY Times, February 25, 2020



Rebecca Solnit



The Harvey Weinstein Verdict Is a Watershed — and a Warning

There are people willing to listen to women now, and sometimes what we say
has consequences.

When I was young I had no words. I read voraciously, I loved books,
stories, language. I was trying to become a writer, and so I lived for
words and by words. I poured out my thoughts and some of the hopes and
fears that were beginning to take shape in long conversations with friends.
But words failed me when I needed them most.

I was a young woman in the 1980s, long before all the contemporary
conversations about consent and believing victims began, before terms like
acquaintance rape and workplace sexual harassment were in regular
circulation. I lived in a time when it seemed so unlikely that the men who
menaced me on the street and sometimes elsewhere would respect my words if
I said no, leave me alone, I’m not interested that I despaired beforehand
and tried instead to slip away, evade, dodge, shrink, disappear.

I was mute in those moments. I knew that speaking was more likely to make
things worse than better for me, though women in the situations I found
myself in were often rebuked for not speaking up. The pleasant story behind
that rebuke was that we were all equal rational beings, and we all had the
power of language at our command, and anyone who didn’t use it chose not
to, and it was all on her.

That was a lie. We did not have equal power. Sometimes saying no or stop
achieved nothing. Sometimes speaking up further enraged the man we were
trying to escape. Some of us, many of us, millions of us were sexually
assaulted and then told we were liars when we spoke of what happened, and
so our society was able to pretend it cared about sexual harassment and
assault while refusing to acknowledge their omnipresence.

We do things with words, when they have power — set boundaries, swear
oaths, bear witness. But if your words have no power, it is almost worse to
speak them than not, to see them fail than not.

Facts circulate freely in a democracy of information that results from a
democracy of voices. We have something else instead, from personal life to
national politics: a hierarchy of audibility and credibility, a brutal
hierarchy, in which people with facts often cannot prevail, because those
who have more power push those facts out of the room and into silence or
make the cost of stating those facts dangerously high. That’s how the oil
industry turned the science of climate change into a fake debate full of
fake uncertainties. It’s how the impeachment trial turned into a showcase
for how to override facts and laws.

And it’s how Harvey Weinstein raised an army to protect his power to grab
and grope and rape with impunity, until now. Sexual assault is perhaps the
grimmest and clearest example of how unequal power generates crimes and
then protects those who create them, but it’s not the only one.

The story of Mr. Weinstein and his army of aggressive protectors has, since
it first began to be told two and a half years ago, been exemplary of this.
More than 90 women have reported he harassed or assaulted them, but Mr.
Weinstein had what money can buy: an international army of lawyers, spies,
influencers and others toiling to control the story and keep his secrets.
That is, to silence and discredit the women he assaulted. Which means that
so many of them were subjected to a double silencing.

The first time was when they were sexually assaulted — an act that is about
disregard for someone’s right to determine what does and does not happen to
them, to have a voice in what happens. (“If he heard the word ‘no,’ it was
like a trigger for him,” said one of the women who testified that he raped
her.) The second silencing was when they were intimidated out of speaking
up or paid to be silent or threatened with or actually had their
reputations or their careers ruined or some combination of those things.
Mr. Weinstein’s trial was widely covered, so we finally heard some of the
victims — but this is not just about exceptionally powerful men and young
women in an industry that makes headlines. There are countless stories of
silencing elsewhere every day, only a few of which make the news — for
example, that of Tiffany Marie Lazon of Albany, whose husband was charged
with her murder after her DNA was found on a circular saw. Four years
before, she’d told a judge her husband was trying to murder her and the
judge told her she was not a credible witness.



Most of these stories don’t make the news at all. Other times the 

[Marxism] Sanders's "turnout" strategy not working

[John Reimann via Marxism]

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Sanders is building his base, especially among black and Latino voters. But
his claim that he will win by bringing new voters to the polls, does not
seem to be confirmed by the facts so far. Here's a review in the NY Times
of the recent elections:

"CHARLESTON, S.C. — It is the most politically provocative part of Senator
Bernie Sanders’s campaign pitch: that his progressive movement will bring
millions of nonvoters into the November election, driving record turnout
especially among disaffected working-class Americans and young people.

And yet despite a virtual tie in Iowa, a narrow victory in New Hampshire
and a big triumph in Nevada, the first three nominating contests reveal a
fundamental challenge for Mr. Sanders’s political revolution: He may be
winning, but not because of his longstanding pledge to expand the
Democratic base.

The results so far show that Mr. Sanders has prevailed by broadening his
appeal among traditional Democratic voters, not by fundamentally
transforming the electorate.

In Iowa, for instance, turnout for the caucuses was lower than expected, up
3 percent compared with 2016, and the increase was concentrated in more
well-educated areas where Mr. Sanders struggled, according to a New York
Times analysis; in the Iowa precincts where Mr. Sanders won, turnout
increased by only 1 percentage point.

There was no sign of a Sanders voter surge in New Hampshire either, nor on
Saturday in Nevada, where the nearly final results indicated that turnout
would finish above 2016 but well short of 2008 levels, despite a decade of
population growth and a new early voting option that attracted some 75,000
voters. The low numbers are all the more striking given the huge turnout in
the 2018 midterm elections, which was the highest in a century.

There was also no clear evidence across the early states of much greater
participation by young people, a typically low-turnout group that makes up
a core part of Mr. Sanders’s base and that he has long said he can motivate
to get out to the polls. And Mr. Sanders has struggled to overcome his
longstanding weakness in affluent, well-educated suburbs, where Democrats
excelled in the midterm elections and where many traditionally Republican
voters are skeptical about President Trump’s performance, meaning they
could be up for grabs in November.

Because the moderate wing opposing Mr. Sanders, a Vermont liberal, is so
fragmented, the lower-than-hoped-for turnout has not slowed his ascent.
Sanders aides point to the simple fact that he has won, finishing atop all
three states with a coalition of young people, working-class voters and
people of color — which was crucial to his victory in Nevada. And they say
it is still early.

But many Democrats believe that for a general election, their nominee will
need to pull in new voters, including those who sat out 2016 and moderate
Republicans repelled by Mr. Trump. Even some inside the Sanders campaign
expressed concern about the race’s initial turnout

The share of the electorate made up of first-time Democratic voters also
decreased in Iowa, New Hampshire and Nevada compared with 2016. And unlike
four years ago, when Mr. Sanders mobilized far more first-time voters than
Hillary Clinton did (averaging a 30-point lead over Mrs. Clinton across the
three states), he had only a modest 10-point edge over his closest rival,
Mr. Buttigieg, in that metric this time around.

Among young people, entrance poll data showed that the share of those
voters remained essentially unchanged across the three early states.
Participation was basically flat in precincts and townships in New
Hampshire and Iowa where 18- to 24-year-olds made up more than 50 percent
of the population "


https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/24/us/politics/bernie-sanders-democratic-voters.html?action=click=moreIn=Article=Footer=click=MoreInSection=Article=Footer=Politics
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[Marxism] On the Composition of the International Working Class

[RKOB via Marxism]

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On the Composition of the International Working Class

A new report of the UN’sInternational Labour Office with interesting 
figures about social developments between 2000 and 2018


Article (with 2 Tables) by Michael Pröbsting, 25 February 2020

https://www.thecommunists.net/theory/on-the-composition-of-the-international-working-class/

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[Marxism] JP Morgan economists warn climate crisis is threat to human race | Environment | The Guardian

[Louis Proyect via Marxism]

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https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2020/feb/21/jp-morgan-economists-warn-climate-crisis-threat-human-race
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[Marxism] Frederick Douglass meets Abraham Lincoln

[Dennis Brasky via Marxism]

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https://delanceyplace.com/view-archives.php?p=4041
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