Re: [Marxism] The Making and the Breaking of the Legend of Robert E. Lee
POSTING RULES & NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * From: Gary MacLennan --- Alan You are alive!!! (And as pedantic as ever) How are things with you politically? Comradely Gary--- Let's just say: When we ran Lyle Shelton out of Toowoomba, we thought we were doing a good thing. We didn't expect him to become the same kind of dickhead on a national scale. ... That and a Real Job(tm), too much beer and working on a Saturday. So basically, politically inactive. :( Alan _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] The Making and the Breaking of the Legend of Robert E. Lee
POSTING RULES & NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * On Tue, 19 Sep 2017 at 7:22 am, Alan Bradley via Marxism < marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu> wrote: > Nick Fredman wrote: > > Very much related to campaigns against monuments to Cook and others is > what> is probably the highest profile current battle against reactionary > > tradition, the battle to de-recognise as "Australia Day" the date of > Cook's > > landing, January 26. > > January 26 marks the arrival of the First Fleet, not Cook, of course. > When fighting over history we need to be careful to get the history right. > Oops yes we should take care. Lucky I didn't go to the demo outdide the council meeting to support the motion or I might have put my foot in it where it mattered. _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] The Making and the Breaking of the Legend of Robert E. Lee
POSTING RULES & NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * Alan You are alive!!! (And as pedantic as ever) How are things with you politically? Comradely Gary On Tue, Sep 19, 2017 at 7:13 AM, Alan Bradley via Marxism < marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu> wrote: > POSTING RULES & NOTES > #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. > #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived. > #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. > * > > Nick Fredman wrote: > > Very much related to campaigns against monuments to Cook and others is > what> is probably the highest profile current battle against reactionary > > tradition, the battle to de-recognise as "Australia Day" the date of > Cook's > > landing, January 26. > > January 26 marks the arrival of the First Fleet, not Cook, of course. > When fighting over history we need to be careful to get the history right. > _ > Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm > Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/gary. > maclennan1%40gmail.com > _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] The Making and the Breaking of the Legend of Robert E. Lee
POSTING RULES & NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * Nick Fredman wrote: > Very much related to campaigns against monuments to Cook and others is what> > is probably the highest profile current battle against reactionary > tradition, the battle to de-recognise as "Australia Day" the date of Cook's > landing, January 26. January 26 marks the arrival of the First Fleet, not Cook, of course. When fighting over history we need to be careful to get the history right. _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] The Making and the Breaking of the Legend of Robert E. Lee
POSTING RULES & NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * On Mon, Sep 18, 2017 at 1:10 PM, Gary MacLennan via Marxism < marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu> wrote: > POSTING RULES & NOTES > #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. > #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived. > #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. > * > > Mark wrote: > > 'Meanwhile, they were putting up statues to the idols of the master class > that tried to destroy a nation when they couldn't rule it anywhere. > > It puts a whole new light on what "Reconstruction" meant and never meant.' > > Well said, Mark. Here in Oz, there is a campaign against the statues and > monuments of some of the worst of the colonists. There is a special focus > on the statue of Captain Cook and the claim that he "discovered" > Australia. That is as claim which is deeply offensive to the First Nations > people who have been here for around 60k years. > Very much related to campaigns against monuments to Cook and others is what is probably the highest profile current battle against reactionary tradition, the battle to de-recognise as "Australia Day" the date of Cook's landing, January 26. Four local councils have now done something about this, including not coincidentally the three where socialists have a seat < https://www.greenleft.org.au/content/moreland-council-drop-references-january-26-australia-day>. The other council happens to be where I live. They've also pleasingly agreed to rename a park named after the utter bastard John Batman, involved in mass dispossession in Victoria and genocide in Tasmania: < http://www.heraldsun.com.au/leader/north/batman-park-in-northcote-to-be-renamed-gumbri-park/news-story/5c8c6617e18cb26b97238246b8ed44ec > _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] The Making and the Breaking of the Legend of Robert E. Lee
POSTING RULES & NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * Mark wrote: 'Meanwhile, they were putting up statues to the idols of the master class that tried to destroy a nation when they couldn't rule it anywhere. It puts a whole new light on what "Reconstruction" meant and never meant.' Well said, Mark. Here in Oz, there is a campaign against the statues and monuments of some of the worst of the colonists. There is a special focus on the statue of Captain Cook and the claim that he "discovered" Australia. That is as claim which is deeply offensive to the First Nations people who have been here for around 60k years. There are other statues that are controversial as well. My good friend the Indigenous activist and scholar Professor Gracelyn Smallwood, who is from Townsville, has written about the role of the man the city was named after Robert Towns (1794-1873). He was part of the slave trade in South Sea Islanders, where Islanders were kidnapped to work in the Queensland sugar cane fields. There are other villains of course, who have been honored similarly. comradely Gary On Mon, Sep 18, 2017 at 12:32 PM, Mark Lause via Marxism < marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu> wrote: > POSTING RULES & NOTES > #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. > #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived. > #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. > * > > One of the most frustratingly neglected chapters of the Second American > Revolution was the story of the Richmond Underground, the hundreds of > active Unionists in the Confederate capital, black and white, who did > everything they could to sabotage the war effort. Before and after > Fredericksburg, Lee's army was badly nobbled by not getting supplies on > schedule. The railroad operators and suppliers regularly misdirected that > kind of freight. Elizabeth Van Lew organized a circle of informants that > reached into the War Department and Mary Bowser, a former slave in her > parents household--all manumitted years before--came back to take a > position working for Jefferson Davis in the Confederate White House. She > smuggled information out through the baker who made daily deliveries, > Thomas McNiven. > > What's particularly significant about these people is that they were on the > winning side and we know so little about them. After the war, the > government brought Van Lew (and surely others) to Washington to remove the > documentation on their activities from the records, because of fear of > reprisals. > > Meanwhile, they were putting up statues to the idols of the master class > that tried to destroy a nation when they couldn't rule it anywhere. > > It puts a whole new light on what "Reconstruction" meant and never meant. > > ML > _ > Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm > Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/gary. > maclennan1%40gmail.com > _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] The Making and the Breaking of the Legend of Robert E. Lee
POSTING RULES & NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * One of the most frustratingly neglected chapters of the Second American Revolution was the story of the Richmond Underground, the hundreds of active Unionists in the Confederate capital, black and white, who did everything they could to sabotage the war effort. Before and after Fredericksburg, Lee's army was badly nobbled by not getting supplies on schedule. The railroad operators and suppliers regularly misdirected that kind of freight. Elizabeth Van Lew organized a circle of informants that reached into the War Department and Mary Bowser, a former slave in her parents household--all manumitted years before--came back to take a position working for Jefferson Davis in the Confederate White House. She smuggled information out through the baker who made daily deliveries, Thomas McNiven. What's particularly significant about these people is that they were on the winning side and we know so little about them. After the war, the government brought Van Lew (and surely others) to Washington to remove the documentation on their activities from the records, because of fear of reprisals. Meanwhile, they were putting up statues to the idols of the master class that tried to destroy a nation when they couldn't rule it anywhere. It puts a whole new light on what "Reconstruction" meant and never meant. ML _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] The Making and the Breaking of the Legend of Robert E. Lee
POSTING RULES & NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * And as I am wont to point out these days, fellow Virginian George Thomas who fought for the North was virtually forgotten while Lee was sanctified Jon Flanders http://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/catching-up-with-old-slow-trot-148045684/ _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Marxism] The Making and the Breaking of the Legend of Robert E. Lee
POSTING RULES & NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * NY Times Sunday Book Review, Sept. 17 2017 The Making and the Breaking of the Legend of Robert E. Lee By ERIC FONER In the Band’s popular song “The Night They Drove Old Dixie Down,” an ex-Confederate soldier refers to Robert E. Lee as “the very best.” It is difficult to think of another song that mentions a general by name. But Lee has always occupied a unique place in the national imagination. The ups and downs of his reputation reflect changes in key elements of Americans’ historical consciousness — how we understand race relations, the causes and consequences of the Civil War and the nature of the good society. Born in 1807, Lee was a product of the Virginia gentry — his father a Revolutionary War hero and governor of the state, his wife the daughter of George Washington’s adopted son. Lee always prided himself on following the strict moral code of a gentleman. He managed to graduate from West Point with no disciplinary demerits, an almost impossible feat considering the complex maze of rules that governed the conduct of cadets. While opposed to disunion, when the Civil War broke out and Virginia seceded, Lee went with his state. He won military renown for defeating (until Gettysburg) a succession of larger Union forces. Eventually, he met his match in Ulysses S. Grant and was forced to surrender his army in April 1865. At Appomattox he urged his soldiers to accept the war’s outcome and return to their homes, rejecting talk of carrying on the struggle in guerrilla fashion. He died in 1870, at the height of Reconstruction, when biracial governments had come to power throughout the South. But, of course, what interests people who debate Lee today is his connection with slavery and his views about race. During his lifetime, Lee owned a small number of slaves. He considered himself a paternalistic master but could also impose severe punishments, especially on those who attempted to run away. Lee said almost nothing in public about the institution. His most extended comment, quoted by all biographers, came in a letter to his wife in 1856. Here he described slavery as an evil, but one that had more deleterious effects on whites than blacks. He felt that the “painful discipline” to which they were subjected benefited blacks by elevating them from barbarism to civilization and introducing them to Christianity. The end of slavery would come in God’s good time, but this might take quite a while, since to God a thousand years was just a moment. Meanwhile, the greatest danger to the “liberty” of white Southerners was the “evil course” pursued by the abolitionists, who stirred up sectional hatred. In 1860, Lee voted for John C. Breckinridge, the extreme pro-slavery candidate. (A more moderate Southerner, John Bell, carried Virginia that year.) Lee’s code of gentlemanly conduct did not seem to apply to blacks. During the Gettysburg campaign, he did nothing to stop soldiers in his army from kidnapping free black farmers for sale into slavery. In Reconstruction, Lee made it clear that he opposed political rights for the former slaves. Referring to blacks (30 percent of Virginia’s population), he told a Congressional committee that he hoped the state could be “rid of them.” Urged to condemn the Ku Klux Klan’s terrorist violence, Lee remained silent. By the time the Civil War ended, with the Confederate president, Jefferson Davis, deeply unpopular, Lee had become the embodiment of the Southern cause. A generation later, he was a national hero. The 1890s and early 20th century witnessed the consolidation of white supremacy in the post-Reconstruction South and widespread acceptance in the North of Southern racial attitudes. A revised view of history accompanied these developments, including the triumph of what David Blight, in his influential book “Race and Reunion” (2001), calls a “reconciliationist” memory of the Civil War. The war came to be seen as a conflict in which both sides consisted of brave men fighting for noble principles — union in the case of the North, self-determination on the part of the South. This vision was reinforced by the “cult of Lincoln and Lee,” each representing the noblest features of his society, each a figure Americans of all regions could look back on with pride. The memory of Lee, this newspaper wrote in 1890, was “the possession of the American people.” Reconciliation excised slavery from a central role in the story, and the struggle for emancipation was now seen as a minor feature of the war. The Lost Cause, a romanticized vision of the Old South and Confederacy, gained adherents throughout the
