Re: [Marxism] Tim Wohlforth

[Jim Farmelant via Marxism]

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I have been told the following offlist
:
--
I saw some of your posts on Marxmail about Tim Wohlforth and wanted to correct 
a minor point, one erroneously being promoted by wikipedia: he was never a 
member of the Socialist Youth League.

The Socialist Youth League merged with a group of dissident Young Socialists 
(formerly YPSL) like Bogdan Denitch and Mike Harrington in February 1954 to 
launch the Young Socialist League. Afterwards Scott Arden and Bogdan Denitch 
went on a cross-country tour to promote it, visiting Oberlin College where Tim 
Wohlforth and his wife Martha went to school and recruited them in March. So he 
was a member of the YSL, but not the SYL; joining only after the merger."
---


Jim Farmelant
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-- Original Message --
From: Matt Kelly via Marxism 
Subject: Re: [Marxism] Tim Wohlforth
Date: Sat, 28 Sep 2019 10:01:42 +0300

*

Jim Farmelant says:

That obit says that he was a member of the DSA when he was young. I don't think 
so, since the DSA didn't exist back then. More likely he was a member of the  
Socialist Youth League, which was the youth arm of Max Shachtman's Independent 
Socialist League.

Jim is correct. He was a member of the Shachtman youth organisation then a 
member of the SWP youth organisation, organising the Revolutionary Tendency 
(Wohlforth, Mage & Robertson). This was expelled and organised themselves as an 
external tendency for a number of years before talks with Healy’s group in 
England started.

As with anything touching on Healyism, Wohlforthism & Spartacicm, there is 
copious documentation for those with plenty of time on their hands!

Matt.
---
'In the name of God and of the dead generations from which she receives her old 
tradition of nationhood, Ireland, through us, summons her children to her flag 
and strikes for her freedom.' Proclamation of Independence, 1916.

'The tradition of all the dead generations weighs like a nightmare on the brain 
of the living.' Karl Marx, 1852.

a.marx...@gmail.com




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Re: [Marxism] Tim Wohlforth

[Mark Lause via Marxism]

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The DSA is hardly any kind of social democracy.  It's a lot less than that
. . . and more.   Something like the SDS with a socialist label.

I was just trying to stir interest in a meeting for Howie Hawkins in
Cincinnati.  The DSA and the tiny self-defined cadre organizations also
involved in it seem uninterested in anything but Bernie Sanders.
Supporting a socialist running as a Green would, of course, be supporting a
bourgeois party!  Then, too, the Green party here consists of nothing but
self-appointed leaders who don't want any members--sort of like the Three
Stooges without the choreography..

So, we're left with what the radicals of our generation built . . . which,
thus far, has basically come down to a kind of déjà vu .


.
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Re: [Marxism] Tim Wohlforth

[Louis Proyect via Marxism]

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Odd. I just discovered that Wolforth was a FB friend. As I do 
customarily with croakers, I unfriended him.


About 25 years ago I read his memoir, "The Prophet's Children", and 
enjoyed it thoroughly. There's a great passage in it about being at an 
SWP branch meeting (this was after he rejoined in the 1970s) and feeling 
alienated by the proceedings. He noticed a butterfly fluttering not far 
from him and his attention became riveted on it rather than the report 
to the branch meeting. I loved that passage and remember it all these years.


The memoir was close in spirit to Irving Howe's "A Margin of Hope" that 
is also very interesting, with the same rueful quality.


Me, I can't understand how such people can drift toward social democracy 
in their 60s and 70s. Every day I read the NY Times, I feel like going 
out and throwing bombs like an anarchist.



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Re: [Marxism] Tim Wohlforth

[John Reimann via Marxism]

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I was fortunate enough to having never met Tim Wohlforth. However, I did
know a guy in the Workers League who was active in my union local for
several years. He was always extremely disruptive in the local. In
particular, he would rant on about the need for a labor party, giving that
idea a bad name and making it difficult for me to raise the issue as a
result. He was always overtly hostile to me. The rumor was that his father
was a CIA agent, and I always wondered whether he was too.

One thing that made me wonder: This guy was built like a pro football
running back. He was so obnoxious that several different people tried to
fight him on several occasions, but he always ran away. I always wondered
whether that was because he was an undercover agent and if he had gotten
into a fight his cover might be blown.

A friend of mine who had been in the group around that same time has said
that this guy was, in fact, an agent.

That doesn't necessarily reflect on Wohlforth himself, but I can't help but
think about this member of my local whenever I hear Wohlforth's name.

John Reimann

-- 
*“In politics, abstract terms conceal treachery.” *from "The Black
Jacobins" by C. L. R. James
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Re: [Marxism] Tim Wohlforth

[Andrew Pollack via Marxism]

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See Wohlforth's own "The Prophet's Children" and reviews of it.
> *
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Re: [Marxism] Tim Wohlforth

[Matt Kelly via Marxism]

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Jim Farmelant says:

That obit says that he was a member of the DSA when he was young. I don't think 
so, since the DSA didn't exist back then. More likely he was a member of the  
Socialist Youth League, which was the youth arm of Max Shachtman's Independent 
Socialist League.

Jim is correct. He was a member of the Shachtman youth organisation then a 
member of the SWP youth organisation, organising the Revolutionary Tendency 
(Wohlforth, Mage & Robertson). This was expelled and organised themselves as an 
external tendency for a number of years before talks with Healy’s group in 
England started.

As with anything touching on Healyism, Wohlforthism & Spartacicm, there is 
copious documentation for those with plenty of time on their hands!

Matt.
---
'In the name of God and of the dead generations from which she receives her old 
tradition of nationhood, Ireland, through us, summons her children to her flag 
and strikes for her freedom.' Proclamation of Independence, 1916.

'The tradition of all the dead generations weighs like a nightmare on the brain 
of the living.' Karl Marx, 1852.

a.marx...@gmail.com




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[Marxism] Tim Wohlforth

[John Obrien via Marxism]

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Tim Wohlforth joined DSA a couple of years ago,  as many, including myself.


However - he never apologized for his awful homophobic writings in WL newspaper 
(The Bulletin).

His closeted wife Nancy who also as editor of that paper, printed the same vile 
homophobic garbage -
eventually left him when safe for her to come out and be a Lesbian in San 
Francisco, where she
became a leader of the OPEU and finally involved herself in the LGBT Movement.

Those who followed unquestioning such flawed people as Healey, Robertson and 
Barnes - show their lack of
self respect and insecurity, more looking for a religious type cult group "to 
belong and be accepted" - than one
based on ideas (political program, world view, etc.)  - and most important: 
common sense reality.

These insecure tragic figures who sought only power for themselves and not the 
working class.

 -



.


That obit says that he was a member of the DSA when he was young. I don't think 
so, since the DSA didn't exist back then. More likely he was a member of the  
Socialist Youth League, which was the youth arm of Max Shachtman's Independent 
Socialist League.


.

-- Original Message --
From: Matt Kelly via Marxism 
Subject: [Marxism] Tim Wohlforth
Date: Fri, 27 Sep 2019 11:06:05 +0300



First James Robertson, now Tim Wohlforth

..
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[Marxism] Tim Wohlforth

[Anthony Boynton via Marxism]

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Wikipedia's version of Tim Wohlforth's biography is a lot mor accurate than
the one that was posted yesterday. Here's the link for anyone interested in
this arcane topic:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tim_Wohlforth
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Re: [Marxism] Tim Wohlforth

[Jim Farmelant via Marxism]

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That obit says that he was a member of the DSA when he was young. I don't think 
so, since the DSA didn't exist back then. More likely he was a member of the  
Socialist Youth League, which was the youth arm of Max Shachtman's Independent 
Socialist League.


Jim Farmelant
http://independent.academia.edu/JimFarmelant
http://www.foxymath.com 
Learn or Review Basic Math


-- Original Message --
From: Matt Kelly via Marxism 
Subject: [Marxism] Tim Wohlforth
Date: Fri, 27 Sep 2019 11:06:05 +0300



First James Robertson, now Tim Wohlforth

http://s3.amazonaws.com/ipublishmedia.rosebudmedia/preview/W00123860/W00123860%20pdf%20preview.pdf
 
<http://s3.amazonaws.com/ipublishmedia.rosebudmedia/preview/W00123860/W00123860%20pdf%20preview.pdf>

Matt.
---
'In the name of God and of the dead generations from which she receives her old 
tradition of nationhood, Ireland, through us, summons her children to her flag 
and strikes for her freedom.' Proclamation of Independence, 1916.

'The tradition of all the dead generations weighs like a nightmare on the brain 
of the living.' Karl Marx, 1852.

a.marx...@gmail.com




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[Marxism] Tim Wohlforth

[Matt Kelly via Marxism]

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First James Robertson, now Tim Wohlforth

http://s3.amazonaws.com/ipublishmedia.rosebudmedia/preview/W00123860/W00123860%20pdf%20preview.pdf
 


Matt.
---
'In the name of God and of the dead generations from which she receives her old 
tradition of nationhood, Ireland, through us, summons her children to her flag 
and strikes for her freedom.' Proclamation of Independence, 1916.

'The tradition of all the dead generations weighs like a nightmare on the brain 
of the living.' Karl Marx, 1852.

a.marx...@gmail.com




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