Oudeyis
> CB: Heisenberg was on good terms with the Nazis.
>
> >From what I can tell, Goedel was not progressive , but sort of
apolitical. I
> think the article I posted here on Goedel and Einstein as buddies at
> Princeton said that some Nazis beatup Goedel at one point. Also, for what
> its wo
Re:
1. Re: Does G?del Matter? (Oudeyis)
2. Re: Les Shaffer on Kurt G?del (Ralph Dumain)
3. Re: Re: [Marxism-Thaxis] Les Shaffer on Kurt G?del
(Jim Farmelant)
4. Significance of incompleteness and uncertainity in science
for dialectics (Oudeyis)
6. Les Shaffer on Heisenberg etc
- Forwarded message --
From: Les Schaffer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: PEN-L list
Cc: Marxmail <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2005 14:49:31 -0500
Subject: [Marxism] Re: [PEN-L] More Godel
michael perelman wrote:
> Mirowski says that Godel's proof rattled both Turing & Van Ne
> > >
> > > VFR Was thinking of Hegel, not Gödel. From his
> biography, Gödel sounds
> > like he belongs to the same cloud-9, right-wing,
> mathematician category as
> > Nash.
I think just apolitical
> >
> > ^
> >
> > CB: Heisenberg was on good terms with the Nazis.
Good enough, though there
- Original Message -
From: "Ralph Dumain" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To:
Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2005 6:47 PM
Subject: Re: [Marxism-Thaxis] More Godel
> First of all, the theories of knowledge of Engels and Lenin lack the
specificity to grapple with axiomatic systems as we've come to underst
>>>I can't claim to be an expert in Popper, but I had a specific argument as
to why philosophical reasoning is inadequate as a model for the gaining of
knowledge through practical engagement with the world. This is because
reasoning
about empirical matters is inherently fallible, hence no defi
- Original Message -
From: "Charles Brown" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "'Forum for the discussion of theoretical issues raised by Karl Marx
andthe thinkers he inspired'"
Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2005 6:18 PM
Subject: [Marxism-Thaxis] Does Gödel Matter?
>
>
>
> Oudeyis victor
>
> > > CB: I
>>(4) Utopias are permitted. Many different kinds of
socialism are possible, and we must know what our goal is in
order to build it. A utopian idea of socialism cannot be
refuted by a proof that it cannot be reached, but only by
the development of better utopias or by the proof that what
seems to
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Ralph Dumain: First of all, the theories of knowledge of Engels and Lenin
lack the specificity to grapple with axiomatic systems as we've come to
understand them.
^^^
CB: I don't know if you care to elaborate, but curiosity poses the question
" what are some of the types of specifics that are la
First of all, the theories of knowledge of Engels and Lenin lack the
specificity to grapple with axiomatic systems as we've come to understand them.
Secondly, the philosophical extrapolations and analogies presented here are
not very good interpretations of Godel. Putting these two components
My opinion is that this sort of analogical reasoning doesn't work well here,
i.e. when we are talking about formal mathematical systems.
CB: Why , would you say, formal mathematical systems don't "fit" this ?
What's "special" about mathematical systems that makes them an exception to
the Ma
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I've heard conflicting things about Heisenberg's politics. His behavior during
the war was ambiguous, as was the case with many other German scientists.
After Einstein emigrated to the USA, he was so pissed off at his german
colleagues he requested his greetings to be forwarded to only one Germ
Oudeyis victor
> > CB: I think Hegel mentions math and jurisprudence as prime areas of the
> > operation of formal logic.
> >
> > VFR: True enough, but I've a strong feeling that there's more to the
> lawlessness of laws and constitutions than formal logic.
> >
>
> ^^
> CB: I'm curious to
My opinion is that this sort of analogical reasoning doesn't work well here,
i.e. when we are talking about formal mathematical systems. Now, if the topic
were a priori philosophical reasoning in general, I might be inclined to agree.
In fact, I used a similar argument last year when arguing w
Carlos A. Rivera
>Les:
> In some fundamental sense human (mathematical) activity
> cannot be reduced to formalism alone, such formal systems are incomplete.
So we can say that Godel et al, do for Enlighment mathematics and logic what
Marx et al did to philosophy?
-clip-
Cybernetics and d
Michael Perelman:
Mirowski says that Godel's proof rattled both Turing & Van Neuman,
making them turn from formalizing to matters such as game theory &
computers.
-clip-
CB: As Carlos on Marxmail suggested might be pertinent to this:
"The question whether objective truth can be attributed
I'm skeptical of many of these analogies of formal systems and dialectics.
However,
it could be said that the inexhaustibility and incompleteness of the process of
axiomatization, along wth other seminal discoveries of the 20th century, accords
with the Marxist perspective as well as with a yet
On Marxmail, there was also the following post on this thread. In it, Carlos
suggests Goedel's work as an expression of Leninist epistemology in
mathematics. So, perhaps "incompleteness" is an expression of Engels and
Lenin's dialectic of absolute and relative truth, and their metaphor of the
ma
Carlos A. Rivera
Or as I have put the question ever since I first faced fractals, chaos, and
HUP:
Nothing is more certain than being certain of uncertainity.
As a matter of fact, nanotechnology is based precisely on this view, and it
is indeed a solid science that is already creating practica
Crosspost on Goedel
(( So we can say that Godel et al, do for Enlighment mathematics and
logic what Marx et al did to philosophy? ))
Gödel's work was important but not as generally applicable as one might
think.
In the early years of the 20th century, Bertrand Russell, Alfred North
Whitehea
- Forwarded message --
From: Les Schaffer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: Activists and scholars in Marxist tradition
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2005 02:03:49 -0500
Subject: Re: [Marxism] Re: godel etc (was ...)
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Scott Palmer wrote:
> (( So we
- Original Message -
From: "Fred Feldman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "standard" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "gleft"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "107" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>;
"snews" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "change"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "rad" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>;
; ; "620"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "ceoi" <[EMAIL PROT
Carlos A. Rivera wrote:
> I argue that incompleteness in mathematics and uncertainity in quantum
> mechanics actually point to materialist dialectics. As dynamic,
> never-ending systems, they exhibit the same continous struggle that
> dialectics call, while firmly footed on a materialist grasp o
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