A lot of music watchers have argued that Jaz Coleman, the frontman of
Killing Joke, is over the deepend in paranoia and conspiracy, but when
he shouts stuff like 'Fuck the bankers' and 'take back your country'
at a concert in Greece, he seems pretty sane to me.
He uses the mass rock concert
I was trying to think of songs that actually expressed working class
consciousness outside of accepting the fantasy that 'pop music' is one
means to escape it (either through commercial success from making it
or being transported somewhere while listening to it). Or songs that
actually acknowledge
Looks like at the archive a couple songs got clipped out--perhaps too
long a post?
Here is what didn't make it to the archive:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MOTHdjymnW0
Atom and Cell
David Sylvian
Her skin was darker than ashes
And she had something to say
Bout being naked to the elements
At
That piece doesn't even read like a good MRZINE piece, let alone the
usually ponderous, pretentious MR.
All those words and I still can't get a good idea what the guy
actually does. Standardized tests are for the most part
machine-/computer-scored. Some tests require recorded oral responses
Interesting photo of a sign on Catto.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/23021...@n06/3075692379/
___
Marxism-Thaxis mailing list
Marxism-Thaxis@lists.econ.utah.edu
To change your options or unsubscribe go to:
Substance of what? Finance capital remains fianance capital but it is not
the financial industrial capital of the time of Lenin.
Here's something from 2002.
WL.
Do you even read your own posts? You are the one who used the word
'substance'. I merely echoed it in my reply.
Again what you
WL:
The quality that has changed is the substance of modern finance capital
that is outside of and evolves based on detachment from production of surplus
value.
...
Wealth today is a very super symbolic abstract thing not riveted to gold or
any tangible.
This is the change.
About the only thing Time is good for now--reading online articles I
can remember reading in my father's copy of Time back in the 70s.
Looks a lot like QE2 to me. Now instead of pegging the dollar to some
sort of imaginary value of gold, we have pegged the value of gold to
the dollar (and the
Sorry WL but I have to disagree. For a start, I'm not sure what your
concept of Lenin's concept of banks actually is.
This time around people started to notice the crisis when there was a
run on a building society type bank in the UK.
I predicted something tumultuous would happen when I saw that
As I posted before, it's deja vu all over again when you get down to
what human relations create such crises.
JP Morgan himself was caught up in helping to create the crisis,
although he went down in history as one of those guys who helped
overcome it. BTW, I don't necessarily agree with the
I don't think either CB or myself is arguing for Nostradamus status
here. What you haven't done is shown anything that would convince me
there has been some categorical change in relations of production and
capital that says this time is different different, other than history
doesn't repeat
Certainly, the possibility of reducing the
cost of production and increasing profits by introducing technical
improvements operates in the direction of change. But the tendency to
stagnation and decay, which is characteristic of monopoly, continues
to operate, and in some branches of industry, in
And this part is just too weird. The CELDF is located in Chambersburg,
PA (in So. Central PA, about an hour away from Harrisburg, the state
capital) and the center of political action, such as it is, is in
townships in Clarion County, in NW PA, and Clarion County is the home
of my mother, where
Chambersburg is an exurb of Harrisburg-York-Lancaster, but also
Baltimore and DC. It's the DC connection that probably led the CELDF
to locate there--along with the cheap rents. Here is their
journalistic, ready-for-media write up of the Licking Township
ordinance (which will probably lead to a
Tenthers (the Tenth Amendment cult) are largely people who move in the
area of law, scholarly activity, intelligentsia, but I think it is
clear that they overlap with the Tea Party activities, which tends
towards rallies and media events.
I'm not sure how coherent tentherism is when you get to
You also have a huge 'ghost' force of 'shadow workers' who comprise a
quasi-civil service. And the info. in this article is over 10 years
old, pre 9/11 and the 'national security' bubble of the
Bushwar-Obomber years.
See:
http://www.govexec.com/features/0199/0199s1.htm
They are still a near-forbidden topic for re-examination in US
history. The inherited view has long struck me as total bull. You know
also from the 19th century, there is still persistent in the US an
inherited view that the Wilimington Riot was an event where uppity
blacks got the commeuppance
I know I'm being too harsh on Obama. I want him to leave office after
this term or the second term renouncing the military interventionist
policies, slashing the military budgets, and telling it like it is to
Americans about the death throes of the imperium and why their society
and political
I have been scouring websites in the USA to try to find a good socialist
critique of the ideology of the Tea Party. But so far I have found
nothing. The WSWS website says absolutely nothing to critique the ideology
of the Tea Party. It seems that many on the left are adapting to the
reactionary
The turning over of the House of Reps to the Republicans demonstrates
clearly one thing (to me at least):
That American voters, as diverse as they are, tend to prefer the
incoherence of the Republicans to the incoherence of the Democrats.
The incoherence of the Republicans is the idea that they
Outside the orthodoxy of the two-party US, Kucinich retained his
congressional seat.
VICTORY: We won, 53% - 44%
Dear Friends,
Your support made it possible for our campaign to have a strong media
presence in the closing days of the election, so that we were able to
withstand the powerful
When the single was marketed in 1989, the record company put a sticker over
the upper left corner of the flag, of course.
http://www.mattscdsingles.com/acatalog/1195%20new.jpg
___
Marxism-Thaxis mailing list
Marxism-Thaxis@lists.econ.utah.edu
To
http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51vEau-yJJL._SL500_AA280_.jpg
CJ
--
ELT in Japan
http://www.eltinjapan.com/
Japan Higher Education Outlook
http://japanheo.blogspot.com/
We are Feral Cats
http://wearechikineko.blogspot.com/
___
Marxism-Thaxis
Play for the good ole boys and see what reaction you get.
The songwriter said of the song:
Was done at the Power Plant with Robin Millar producing. Robin is one of
the nicest people I have ever worked with and has remained a source of good
advice and inspiration. The song is about apartheid and
Interesting that the band's next album did not get a release in the
US, despite the fact that all their previous albums had decent sales
there (with little airplay).
http://www.amazon.com/Live-Moscow-Peace-Our-Time/dp/B002V0JBLG
Editorial Reviews
Product Description
2009 two disc (CD +
RE: Argument for historical existence of barter
I remember being told by an American history professor about how corn
and rye whiskies were used as 'currency' for trade, from Pittsburgh to
New Orleans.
See:
http://projects.exeter.ac.uk/RDavies/arian/northamerica.html
Forms of Money in use in
And while on my 80s nostalgia/obscure agit-prop kick (I suppose I
could have posted this to the barter-money thread).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r7Bq9YdDVc8
Style Council Money-go-round Lyrics
It's no good praying to the powers that be
'Cause they won't shake the roots of the money tree
RE: [Marxism-Thaxis] Bernero Takes New Tactic in Fighting Unfair and
Fraudulent Foreclosures
These are tactics that came to prominence in Michael Moore's film,
Capitalism: A Love Story.
I think he charts how it started in Dade County Florida and spread nationwide.
That film has a lot more going
It's interesting how more and more the 'brown' military the US sends
to control and kill Iraqis and Afghans looks more and more like the
very people they are controlling and killing. This is especially true
if you look at who are actually the dog soldiers doing things like
military convoys and
In general, the Communist Parties agreed on such. The CPUSA certainly
wasn't the only one ( smile)
But the original point was and is: CPs haven't ALWAYS supported the
creation of a Jewish state in Palestine (now called Israel), nor did
they do so before many US and UK politicians who were most
CB: I'm talking about now and for about 60 years, the Soviet Union
and most CP's supported the right of Israel to exist. That's the issue
I'm addressing
And my points were (1) 60 years ago is not always, (2) there was an
abrupt shift coming from the SU and this explains the toe-the-line
CB: Communist PartieS have supported the right of Israel to exist
is a true statement that I made earlier on this thread. You questioned
it. I presented proof positive that Communist PartieS have supported
the right of Isael to exist.
I questioned your statement about always supported--see thread
Yes, due to the growth in population in Latin America and the greater
spread of TV and radio, no doubt.
I meant 'don't listen' in the sense of 'don't heed'. Reading through
the crap on A., the guy really doesn't know what he is talking about,
but that never stopped him before. I still think
Now it's starting to make sense, even if through a shit-coated lens
like the Atlantic. The American reporters wish to emphasize tangential
elements and 'back story'--Castro (long accused of Antisemitism) shows
his humanity by deploring Holocaust denial and supposedly mentioning
Iranian leaders in
Saw this over on the Liberal/Lily-livered Bored/Bourgeois Observer/Oaf
(LBO Talk) list and thought I would comment. I am no expert on this
matter, so correct me where I'm wrong, but it seems to me you are
wrong CB:
CB: Actually, Communist Parties have always supported Israel's right to
exist.
What this seems to mean is: recognition is recognition, for the US
president to give. The terms 'de facto' and 'de jure' only apply to
the nature of the government being recognized. So, a provisional
government of Israel was recognized by Truman as 'de facto'. When it
held elections, he recognized
It still comes down to whether or not 'de jure' status is something
that can be given or only acknowledged.
http://talknic.wordpress.com/2010/01/02/the-recognition-of-israel-de-jure-de-facto-the-jewish-state/
//Letter From the Agent of the Provisional Government of Israel… ” I
have the honor to
Well, I wouldn't have said it if I didn't think it was true. Certainly
, the CPUSA supported a two state solution, with one of the states
being Israel; and therefore Israel would exist, and have a right to
exist.
Gus Hall
Geez, I didn't think Gus was into such Stalinist bullshit until the
Two years after the 2008 bailout, the economy continues to struggle with a
lack of credit, the hallmark of recessions and depressions. Credit (or
debt) is issued by banks and is the source of virtually all money today.
When credit is not available, there is insufficient money to buy goods or
pay
Race might be a social category but I would refrain from using metaphysically.
I think you are missing the obvious--these tempest in a teapot
teabaggers are doing a great service to the Demoncrats.
I wasn't out to critique race in America. I was out to critique the
warpig Obama.
CJ
Castro was the one who put out the big alarm about the US sending
ships to harass Iran. He is not some heavy critic of Iran and is a
long term critic of Israel, which is why his very specific and narrow
criticism of A is significant. A probably sees it as advice from an
ancestor who is not yet
More and more Fidel looks to be irrelevant on this particular issue.
Perhaps he could relate better with the PLO under Arafat.
Of course I would have to wade into the transcript of a long speech
(translated of course) in order to see if he addresses Palestine or
the fact that it's the US in Iraq
Right now they seem to be the best way to mess up the Repugnican
Party-- a sort of reverse George Will strategy, if you will (I think
it was he who first put out the idea of a permanent, united Republican
majority in power). I always said the Repugs were more fractious and
class-divided than the
Maybe he simply needs to shut up and stop giving interviews to
Atlantic bloggers?
They are the very sort who have accused Castro of being anti-semitic too.
I don't think we need to review Castro's credentials. But he is at the
end of his life, and not really in power anymore. He can't really do
Like Obama has done anything that would make Black people stop voting
for him. What planet are you on ?
I don't know, dye his hair green? The point is to keep black voters
voting in large numbers for a warpig demoncratic government that
doesn't give a shit about them. Or haven't you noticed? What
CB: Yeah right. Sort of like Deng Chou Ping. I bet he has no influence
whatsoever over the Cuban society and state. He's a retired strongman
(smile)
I didn't know Fidel is a pile of ashes talking to your ancestors Charles.
I do know when I go into my favorite Egyptian cafe in Kuala Lumpur
(Arab
CB: The vast majority of Black people never vote. Those who do vote
understand exactly what Obama is going through. All of these Black
people ,including me, are very observant earthly beings, know white
people like the back of our hands. Oh you know them better than us ?
uhhhuuuhu
And back to my
Well the first black president goes stumping for the second black
president. Bill does have better moves on the dance floor than the
cool thin yellow one, though.
Clinton simply backed his wife to the bitter end of the Democratic
primaries, and neither of them could believe that a relatively
Apparently the ziowarpiggies and their NATO cronies couldn't get out
of bed early enough in order to walk out this time. Meanwhile, NATO
cronie Merkel teaches developing world 'responsibility and
accountability'. Can't wait for Hugo Chavez to weigh in.
This is just more propaganda. It's obvious the US military has been
moving piecemeal out of Iraq and into Kuwait and onto compounds there
for quite some time. It's funny because they went into Iraq at a
division level, and now they make a big propaganda deal out of leaving
at a brigade level. That
Also, I should have said: it has been the official policy of the US
government and military neither to confirm nor deny the presence of
nukes (tactital nukes usually) on US ships or planes or overseas
bases. When New Zealand tried to get them to stop taking nukes into NZ
ports, the US actually set
Hope , faith and charity. The greatest of these is charity.
More like PR, tax shelters and untaxed investment/finance capitalism,
and the greatest of all these Bill and Melinda know more about than
100 Michael Hudsons.
CJ
---
ELT in Japan
http://www.eltinjapan.com/
Japan Higher Education
CB: What would the US have done if Japan had not allowed same ?
Most likely the US would have said it valued the US-Japan alliance more than
an issue like that, and then lie and say it didn't have any nukes in Japan
while bringing them here anyway.
At least more Japanese would be aware that the
The most interesting thing about this is people fall for the line that
they are 'giving it away'. Not the case at all. What they seem to seek
is some way to keep their fortunes intact after their death and still
have some say over how the money is invested and used, even as they
lie mouldering in
Japan, the only country that has ever been attacked with
atomic bombs -- first on August 6, 1945 in Hiroshima, and
three days later in Nagasaki -- has pushed for the abolition
of the weapons of mass destruction ever since.
Which is why the governments of Japan have knowingly
It's hard to say exactly why this crap was released when it was released,
but it seems to amount to the same sort of bait and switch we got with the
so-called 'Abu Graib' 'revelations'--let's entertain people with SM porn to
distract them from our real war atrocities.
It could be that some in the
In an interview with director of 'Fast Food Nation' (a fictionalized version
of the book with the same name), we probably get closer to the 'truth' about
labor and the impoverished in the US. Perhaps, btw, I'll have to give the PK
Dick novel, A Scanner Darkly another try (and has anyone seen the
Not to worry. I think that, brave soul that he is, CB is trying to discuss
something on the LBO-Talk list.
I'll hold my breath, dip into the archives, and check out how it went.
CJ
___
Marxism-Thaxis mailing list
Marxism-Thaxis@lists.econ.utah.edu
To
Yes, it's obviously a spillover from the LBO Talk list.
See, if you have the stomach for it,
http://mailman.lbo-talk.org/pipermail/lbo-talk/Week-of-Mon-20100712/date.html
It seems to be one of the more popular threads going there for the past
week.
CJ
--
ELT in Japan
I remember having to read a lot of Calhoun and a lot of Clay in US history
courses (Jackson Era).
Not sure if Calhoun was related to the Gibson super-family, but
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/secret/famous/gibsonfamily.html
Gibson
This page updated January 2004. The news
For what it is worth, here is a credible metatheoretical statement of
Chavismo.
I think it errs in attributing too much to one person--not Chavez but JKG.
Also, it's almost as if we were talking about some line of 'literary
influence'
instead of a real political and economic 'theory-in-action'.
CCAnother way of putting this, is that they assumed there to be a direct
relationship between theory and praactice: abstract theory could dictate
detailed tactics in all situatios. (Assuming a direct relation of theory
to practice is, I think, the most useful definition of dogmatism.)
That is
The thing to remember about libertarians is that for the most part they are
the Republicans who go to the nude beach.
It isn't like , ultimately, the Huffington Demoncrats offer anything better
for the mass of America. If anything, their incoherent brand of imperialist
warpig federalism is a
I still think a religious revival is next. If a hurricane gets the oil slick
and spews it all over the New South, that ought to be interesting.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/friedrich-hayek-darling-of-the-right-is-reborn-in-the-usa-2017267.html
excerpt:
Gurus of Economics
VP Biden seems to be in Iraq to try and prevent the collapse. The reason
American military people aren't dying in large numbers is that the military
is on its bases and not engaging in much combat against the Resistance--it
lets it proxies do that, or relies on air forces. But one does have to
JF:I suspect that Gandhi's position on that is by no means
not unrelated to his own advocacy of a secular India.
Although Gandhi was a very devout Hindu, he was
emphatic in support of India being a secular state
in which Hindus, Muslims, Sikhs, Christians etc.
would all have equal rights.
The
http://www.twf.org/News/Y2001/0815-GandhiZionism.html
excerpt:
Gandhi rejected the idea of a Jewish State in the Promised Land by
pointing out that the Palestine of the Biblical conception is not a
geographical tract. The Zionists, after embarking upon a policy of
colonization of Palestine and
I've been around and around on this topic on various discussion fora
online, and must say that there is an awful lot complicating any
discussion of Zionism that it almost always draws a lot of even
self-contradictory responses without any conclusions.
1. Israel is a state that was founded as
RD:There is also the argument of Shlomo Sand, that the concept of Jewry is
a modern concept, that the Exile never happened, that there were mass
conversions involved in the formation of the Jews in Europe (and
elsewhere), and therefore that the actual ties of European Jews to
ancient Judaea are
Clearly, not having read it, you misunderstand it. Koestler was
arguing that the Ashkenazis originated from Khazar Jews who fled
Eastward when the Mongols destroyed the great Khazar Jewish Empire in
the Volga basin and northern Caucasus (the very name Ashkenazi derives
from a Biblical figure,
Wexler is the best on the ethnogenesis, Coffman is the best look at
the genetics (another complicated area that is being misused both by
the Zionists and the anti-semites--but we know who gets to place
pieces with the New York Times and the Wall Street Journal,
misinterpreting genetic studies to
RD:I can't say I keep up with Zionist arguments since 1967. There have been
a number of arguments for over a century to bolster the obviously shaky
arguments for the colonization of a patch of desert that had no live
connection with the European Jews of the 19th century.
There are connections
What does he know if he thinks BIff Delong wrote a good book? First,
what is the connection between fiscal austerity (now being imposed on
UK and Japan) and interest rates? I'm sure there are connections, but
I can think of a number of reasons why they ought to raise interest
rates. Currently the
Escobar is better than most--he was one of the few who went to
Afghanistan when the US invaded and actually reported on some of what
was going on, rather than relying on the Pentagon's e-war fake news
feeds.
However, one thing missing in the analysis is the fact that the US
practices the same mad
Of course it's not greed in the sense that BP is no more greedy than
Exxon-Mobil or Halliburton or Transocean or McDonald's or Pres.
Obama's tax accountant. It's capitalism. And capitalism will not be
defeated by admonishment or appeal to less 'base' motivations.
CJ
UAW pays Wall Street
http://dealbook.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/05/21/treasury-hires-lazard-to-advise-on-a-g-m-i-p-o/
excerpt:
A G.M. spokesman, Tom Wilkinson, declined to comment on the hiring. In
an e-mailed statement, he added:
We understand there is a lot of anticipation and speculation
Of course this is a pack of right wing lies. Re Helen Thomas: her
remarks, if she has been quoted correctly, are repellent, but one should
add that there is a logical distinction between Israel's right to exist
as a state, Jewish or otherwise, and the right of Jewish people to live
there,
RD:The issue is not coherence in the semantic sense, but syntactic
intelligibility.
The issue for proponents and opponents of a formalised grammar might
be: Is it use of rules that decides syntactical well-formedness? Time
and time again I have seen Chomskian grammarians use their 'intuition'
Speakers proficient in a language know what expressions are acceptable
in their language and what expressions are unacceptable. The key
puzzle is how speakers should come to know the restrictions of their
language, since expressions that violate those restrictions are not
present in the input,
http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg20627621.000-language-lessons-you-are-what-you-speak.html?full=true
Language lessons: You are what you speak
excerpt:
LANGUAGES are wonderfully idiosyncratic. English puts its subject
before its verb. Finnish has lots of cases. Mandarin is highly tonal.
CB: This is an interesting puzzle, although Language learners may have
limited access to some such ungrammatical expressions when they
mistakenly say them themselves. Perhaps it is a matter in part of a
very high skill at learning from mistakes, trial and error and ability
to generalize the
CB: Ha ha. Egyptology has not completely failed; hieroglyphs have
been translated, etc. There's the _Book of the Dead_,
Which I'm sure you read everyday at lunch, right CB? That is,
afterall, why you and your descendants practice memorial mass retainer
burial and advanced mummification
More background reading on the push to take wells deeper into the seas
and at the same time deeper into the earth--with profitability assured
by US government subsidy and 'sequestration' of much cheaper oil in
Iraq (if Iraq produced on the level of Saudi Arabia and Russia, and
most think its
I saw this on Marxmai list, but I'm going to go in a different
direction with it. If this is true, we see Kirchner believes more of
what typical ruling class believes, hence wars are just an undesirable
but often unavoidable part of the mix of governments, international
agencies and capitalism.
Americans still don't have health care, the US military still occupies
Iraq, its occupation of Afghanistan has expanded, and Obama pulled a
real bonehead move earlier this year when he announced a reversal--a
total boneheaded flipflop on offshore drilling--and gave the likes of
T. Boone Pickens
JF:
In Japan wasn't land reform imposed by the American
occupation under MacArthur?
This is what I've read from all the standard sources (like
Reischauer). It seems to have created the Japanese equivalent of the
Republican-voting dairy farmer of the MidAtlantic US. They hold a few
rice
Why , oh, why are humans so thoroughly socially determined ?
CB: Well, it worked to get across the death barrier for scores if not
hundreds of generations. I'm not sure what you are talking about. Some
of the Egyptian stuff and the others _did_ get across to us. We are
not utterly ignorant of
Apple Overtakes Microsoft
Prove more than anything that the .com bubble didn't go away, it just
farted its way into a handful of stocks.
Both Apple and MS are bubble-valued stocks, because hope never dies apparently.
CJ
___
Marxism-Thaxis mailing list
Although Goldwater was not the man to lead them into their promised
land, this supports my idea that we need to account for Goldwaterism
too. Now we see Buchanan can't lead some of them out into populist
nationalism because he is a Catholic.
CJ
I was wondering this because of the anti-BP backlash being given 'BP
is foreign connotations'.
It's not really foreign, it's not even really very British in terms of
who owns the equity stakes.
The second largest holder of the stock, Barrow, Hanley, Mewhinney
Strauss Inc., links to its parent,
CB: A demonstration is worth 10,000 words. But ten thousand words can get
across the death barrier and a bodily demonstraton cannot .Most of
what I'm saying, my premises are anthropology a,b,c. I'm just posing a
little esoteric hypothesis for some basic anthropology.
Alas, apparently 10,000
Recursion in language
The use of recursion in linguistics, and the use of recursion in
general, dates back to the ancient Indian linguist Pāṇini in the 5th
century BC, who made use of recursion in his grammar rules of
Sanskrit.
Linguist Noam Chomsky theorizes that unlimited extension of a
Re: [Marxism-Thaxis] Evolutionary timeline for language
The entire article looks dubious and would require a lifetime to discuss.
CB: A lifetime ? What is dubious ?
Most articles on linguistics at wiki are awful. Any attempt to revise
them will result in a small clique 'reverting' them.
I
CB: In other words,
the fact that the signifier is _not_ the thing or processes that it
signified is the characteristic that allows it to get across the death
barrier that the body of the ancestor faces.
So that which crosses the death barrier is not actually a thing? So
what is it? Isn't there a
I wrote:
f you step back and examine what must have gone into producing such a
sequence, it's obvious the planning stage in the 'mind' wouldn't have
to be limited to such a sequence. In fact, such a sequence would make
language impossible. So, for example, if I know I'm going to
say/produce the
Charles, I don't understand the purpose of so many posts. Since reading
them all is out of the question, and I have no principle of selection
that would work, I end up not reading any of them, thogugh some of them
must be important or at least inteesting.
Carrol
I'm not sure which Charles you
Mostly in reply to CB.
CB: Calling it bizarre is bizarre, with your grunts and snorts version
of early human communication. You are out of your gourd. Were they
cavemen , too. You read too many cartoons.
Of course , the wheelwright uses stories to teach how to build a wheel. Duh.
Actually these
The entire article looks dubious and would require a lifetime to discuss.
I think the overall thrust of the accounts I posted excerpts from is
formed thus: that syntactisized upper body gesturing and sophisticated
vocalization abilities converged and were somehow (not yet explained)
able to
To be fair to Chomsky, one reason why his linguistics has had so much
impact is he was there at the right time--some were trying to look
beyond structuralism and behaviourism, and here was a guy who was
arguing his approach to linguistics would prove more deeply
'explanatory'. Take a lot of fields
OTOH, arguments have been forward that (1) there are human languages
without recursion and (2) recursion can be found outside human thought
and language.
I have my doubts about (1). It is a mostly unexamined truism of
linguistics that a language's phonology does not have recursion, but
that is
1 - 100 of 657 matches
Mail list logo
