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Chris Slee, commenting on my claim that "Of course there was no use of
"chlorine or cluster bombs" by any rebels in this report (and the
entirely false accusation in a previous Amnesty
report that chlorine was sued against Sheikh Maqsud was based on one
photo with some yellow dye smudged on it)", quotes the Amnesty report:
"There are also **allegations** that members of armed groups attacking
Sheikh Maqsoud **may have** used chemical weapons. A local doctor told
Amnesty International that on 7 and 8 April he treated six civilians and
two YPG fighters for symptoms including shortness of breath, numbness,
red eyes and severe coughing fits. Several of the victims, he said,
reported seeing yellow smoke as missiles impacted. A toxicologist
consulted by Amnesty International, who viewed video-clips of the
apparent attack and reviewed the doctor’s testimony, said the patients’
symptoms **could be** the effects of a chlorine attack. A subsequent
statement purportedly issued by the leader of the Army of Islam armed
group said that a field commander had deployed an **“unauthorised
weapon”** on Sheikh Maqsoud and that he would be held to account".
https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2016/05/syria-armed-opposition-groups-committing-war-crimes-in-aleppo-city/
Not sure that the only cause of “shortness of breath, numbness, red eyes
and severe coughing fits” is the use of chemical weapons. Lots of “may”,
“could” etc in this report for very good reason. Ask the residents of
Ghouta about effects of chemicals.
The trouble with the bit about a Jaysh Islam leader disciplining a
northern field commander (JI is almost entirely a Damascus-based group)
for use of “weapons not authorized for use in these types of
confrontations” is that JI specified it was referring to “modified Grad
rockets, not chlorine:
https://twitter.com/islamalloush0/status/718121743949414403. The PYD
folk who continue to use this unclear statement to assume he meant
chemical weapons know very well about this clarification, but just use
it anyway. Well, everyone lies in war, I suppose.
I will be referring to Chris’ important points about JI sectarianism in
a longer post about the nature of revolution.
Nick Fredman chose not to respond to my post about how laughable it was
for him to put regime crimes and rebel crimes on a par, instead simply
repeating points I had shown were wrong. Rather he writes:
“The idea that the abuses documented in this report by the PYD-led
movement and the rebels are comparable is laughable. The former is
accused by not looking after everyone properly it moves for military
reasons, of conscription — without mentioning the YPG/J are volunteer
forces and conscripts are strictly adults who only serve in the civil
defence HXP —
and the abuse of one young man who refused conscription.”
The report that I read, just for this most recent period, included the
continued prevention of return of substantial numbers after the Minbij
offensive last year, but even more seriously, from Suluk, which the YPG
took over, and violently expelled the inhabitant, in May 2015; the
expellees living under “dire humanitarian conditions” who did not
receive the necessary assistance (the part Nick will admit); the
demolition of houses of expellees, pillaging of their property and
cutting down their olive trees (rings a bell); further confiscation of
computers and telephones from residences, “in addition to burning down
some individuals’ properties” during the sacking of Aleppo; expulsion of
residents of Heisha where they were “ordered to leave the area by SDF
troops, some of whom went house to house demanding that civilians leave
on threat of punishment” and who “continue to live in dire conditions,
lacking even basic necessities;” the forcible conscription of child
soldiers (despite Nick’s assurances that the YPG/SDF doesn’t do this –
we should believe only what we want of the report presumably); the
torture of one 17-year old who refused this non-existent conscription
(Nick says “abuse” while the report says the minor was “both physically
and psychologically tortured during interrogation, while blindfolded”);
and the imprisonment of other “boys aged 13 to 17 years.”
Dress it up how you like Nick. It sounds qualitatively similar to rebel
crimes. Yet Nick writes:
“Rebels — with the worst being Jabhat Fatah al-Sham but others
implicated as well — are
accused of widespread indiscriminate attacks on civilians”
Yes, I made the point that this is widely condemned by revolutionary
circles, but this is “shooting back” from the bombed, besieged, starved
ghettos under daily aerial massacre by Assad and Russia, something the
YPG/SDF doesn’t have to deal with, and so yes of course armies do shoot
back, and often miss due to the rebels’ pathetic quality of home-made
weaponry. That is if you want to talk about “context” Nick. But as I
also pointed out, even given this context, the YPG does exactly the same
thing in its *offensive* (not just defensive as with the rebels)
operations against ISIS, just that it is the US air-force that does it
for them: as I said, the US bombed to death over 200 civilians to enable
the YPG/SDF to seize Manbij from ISIS. Why is that different? As long as
the imperialists are doing it for you, it is better?
“of conscription of child soldiers”
No, only JFS was accused of that. And, of course, YPG/SDF. No other
rebels were accused of this. But Nick believes it about JFS (and by
extension the rebels) but not about those he likes.
“of widespread summary execution of prisoners, and both JFS and Jund
al-Sham are accused of setting up sharia courts in Idlib that regularly
dispense arbitrary imprisonment, torture and execution.”
As we saw, one case of alleged torture, ie, the same number as for
YPG/SDF.
“E.g. in the period of this report, Liwa al-Aqsa executed 128 prisoners
in one brutal job lot”
Wow Nick, you couldn’t care less could you. As I explained, these 128
executed fighters were themselves *FSA rebels*, they were the fucking
victims, and they were murdered by Liwa al-Aqsa gangs, who are linked to
ISIS! As I noted, it is somewhat mistaken for the UN report to lump the
crimes *against rebels* carried out by an *ISIS-linked* group in the
category of “rebel crimes” rather than ISIS crimes, but I guess Nick
wouldn’t mind if some ISIS massacre of 128 SDF fighters by ISIS was put
under “SDF crimes” and people quoited it as evidence of the SDF carried
out widespread “summary executions”, even after clarification.
“and JFS stoned to death a women for adultery in Heish village in Idlib,
and shot the man allegedly involved. Let's let the stoning to death of a
woman and the shooting of a man for adultery sink in for a minute. Some
revolution.”
Yes, that is what we mean by the revolution of course Nick. A single
reported individual crime by JFS, in some village where they have the
control no doubt, that occurred nowhere else in any rebel-controlled
territory, and despite the fact that the rebels continually battle JFS,
and that the report itself separates JFS crimes from rebel crimes;
despite all that, we can summarise not only rebel crimes, but *the
entire revolution*, on the basis of a single act of savagery by JFS. But
I’ll deal with that separately in the other post I mentioned above.
Just for now, let’s see what other rebel crimes the report mentioned:
“During the reporting period, Syrian men and women expressed their
desire to begin sharing control over local governance with armed groups
on an array of matters relating to daily life. Residents in Kafr Nbuda,
northern Hama, for example, quarrelled with members of Ahrar al-Sham
over local governance mechanisms in an attempt to obtain more rights and
autonomy through power-sharing. A number of civilians further staged
demonstrations during the period under review throughout both
localities, with some calling for the withdrawal of armed groups who
they increasingly view as imposing rules inconsistent with the needs of
the civilian population.”
I realise that Ahrar and other brigades didn’t arrest, torture or shoot
those "quarrelling and demonstrating," but no doubt a few gave dirty
looks or quarrelled back loudly.
John O’Brien:
“If one wants to believe that al-Qaeda's supporters in Syria (al-Nusra,
etc.) and ISIS and other such jihadi fanatics would not use
indiscriminate bombing as Bashir al-Assad, is ignoring reality … Are you
stating - that the U. S. military - could be of actual help? Thus
ignoring the purpose of the U. S. military - which is to harm those
opposed to capitalist rule?”
No idea who said either that the US military could be of any use, or who
said that al-Qaida or ISIS are good guys, but genuinely confused about
how these two sentences could be part of the same argument. Aside from
the fact that neither “al-Qaida” (I assume John means the ex-Qaida JFS)
nor ISIS have even the remotest possibility of coming to power; and the
fact that ISIS in particular is relentlessly hostile to the rebels who
have fought it back more than anyone has; surely John is aware that the
US military in Syria has the following main roles:
1. Bombing ISIS
2. Bombing JFS, in collaboration with Assad and Russia, especially in
Idlib and west Aleppo (I assume you saw the 57 worshippers the US just
murdered in a mosque when it claimed to be bombing “al-Qaida terrorists”,
a claim backed by its Russian allies, and sounding a lot like some
commenters here …)
3. Supporting military offensives by the YPG/SDF against ISIS
4. Supporting Assad’s clashes with ISIS in Deir Ezzor and Palmyra
regions (I assume you saw the widely reported US-Russian-Assad-Iranian
collaboration in the latest reconquest of Palmyra).
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