Re: [meteorite-list] Beware misrepresented Sericho on eBay

[Gregory Shanos via Meteorite-list]

 Mike:

I too have seen these thin-sliced sericho in clear coated plastic on ebay.   
Are these real?   Sound like a fake to me.  Besides, the cost of these 
specimens are cheaper than the "real" sericho specimens available on ebay.   
Can you comment on this?   Thank you.  
Greg 
On Thursday, July 15, 2021, 09:04:43 AM EDT, Galactic Stone & Ironworks via 
Meteorite-list  wrote:  
 
 Hi Listees,

If you see thin-sliced Sericho that is clear-coated on eBay, beware.
There are several (?) sellers on eBay offering nice-looking Sericho
pieces that allow light to pass through the crystals, and the
specimens have been clear-coated with an acrylic-type substance.

The listings are all very similar, use similar wording and have
similar photos, but are being offered by multiple sellers.

The misrepresentation is the location of the seller. The seller claims
to be inside the US and says the item will be shipped from the US.
This is not true. These sellers are located in China and ship from
China. Their claim of shipping from the US is a lie.

Before you are tempted to buy one of these specimens, contact the
seller and verify that the item will be shipped from the US. If the
seller does not reply at all, that is a sign that the seller is lying.
I tried contacting two of them this week and asked them to confirm
their shipping location and both sellers ignored my messages.

Honestly, I wouldn't have a problem buying a specimen from China if
the seller was honest. But, lying right from the get go is not good
sales practice and would make me suspicious about other aspects of
their offerings.

Best regards,

MikeG


-- 

Galactic Stone & Ironworks : https://www.galactic-stone.com
Twitter : https://twitter.com/GalacticStone
Meteorites, Ice Age Fossils, Minerals, and Artifacts

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[meteorite-list] Beware misrepresented Sericho on eBay

[Galactic Stone & Ironworks via Meteorite-list]

Hi Listees,

If you see thin-sliced Sericho that is clear-coated on eBay, beware.
There are several (?) sellers on eBay offering nice-looking Sericho
pieces that allow light to pass through the crystals, and the
specimens have been clear-coated with an acrylic-type substance.

The listings are all very similar, use similar wording and have
similar photos, but are being offered by multiple sellers.

The misrepresentation is the location of the seller. The seller claims
to be inside the US and says the item will be shipped from the US.
This is not true. These sellers are located in China and ship from
China. Their claim of shipping from the US is a lie.

Before you are tempted to buy one of these specimens, contact the
seller and verify that the item will be shipped from the US. If the
seller does not reply at all, that is a sign that the seller is lying.
I tried contacting two of them this week and asked them to confirm
their shipping location and both sellers ignored my messages.

Honestly, I wouldn't have a problem buying a specimen from China if
the seller was honest. But, lying right from the get go is not good
sales practice and would make me suspicious about other aspects of
their offerings.

Best regards,

MikeG


-- 

Galactic Stone & Ironworks : https://www.galactic-stone.com
Twitter : https://twitter.com/GalacticStone
Meteorites, Ice Age Fossils, Minerals, and Artifacts

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[meteorite-list] Beware the Predatory Journal

[Paul via Meteorite-list]

I get two to four invitations a month from such dodgy journals.
They are titled as to either mimic real scientific journals or sound
like legitimate publications.

Thirteen ways to spot a ‘predatory journal’ (and why we
shouldn’t call them that) Larissa Shamseer and David
Moher have taken a close look at what it is that sets
dodgy journals apart from the rest, March 27, 2017
https://www.timeshighereducation.com/blog/thirteen-ways-to-spot-a-predatory-journal-and-why-we-shouldnt-call-them-that

Rise in 'predatory publishers' has sparked a warning for
scientists and researchers By Chris McLoughlin, ABC News,
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-04-13/rise-in-predatory-publishers-sparks-warning-for-researchers/9640950

Allen, M., 2018. Beware the Predatory Journal: It’s Not Just Fieldwork
That is Dangerous. SAA Archaeological Record. 18(3) pp. 6-9.
http://www.saa.org/Portals/0/SAA/Publications/thesaaarchrec/SAA_Record_May_2018%20FINAL%20WEB%205.10.18.pdf
http://onlinedigeditions.com/publication/?i=496953=contentsBrowser#{"issue_id":496953,"view":"contentsBrowser"}

Johal, J., Ward, R., Gielecki, J., Walocha, J., Natsis, K., Tubbs, R.S. and
Loukas, M., 2017. Beware of the predatory science journal: a potential
threat to the integrity of medical research. Clinical Anatomy. 30(6)
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/316992936_Beware_of_the_Predatory_Science_Journal_A_Potential_Threat_to_the_Integrity_of_Medical_Research

Beware! Academics are getting reeled in by scam journals
The number of predatory publishers is skyrocketing – and they’re
eager to pounce on unsuspecting scholars.
By Alex Gillis, University Affairs, January 17, 2017
https://www.universityaffairs.ca/features/feature-article/beware-academics-getting-reeled-scam-journals/

Yours,

Paul H.
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Re: [meteorite-list] Beware

[Graham Ensor via Meteorite-list]

S! don't tell everybody that's where all the action is Mike LOLI
too thought I would never get involved in social media and sometimes wonder
why I did because of all the time it takes up...but talking with all manner
of folks about your favourite things and sharing links and thoughts etc is
actually great...you just have to treat everybody the same as you would if
you physically met them down town or on the bus and you can usually work
out who is genuine or not. There's always going to be the nutter on the bus
that sits next to you now and thenand that is probably much worse than
it happening on facebook.



On Fri, Sep 22, 2017 at 3:06 AM, Galactic Stone & Ironworks via
Meteorite-list  wrote:

> I think half of the people online are not what they claim to be.
>
> It's not just a Facebook thing.
>
> As a dealer, it's foolish to ignore social media. Lots of fee-free
> money to be made there. Although, if I was only a collector, I would
> likely stay away from social media entirely. It's a lot of hassle and
> nonsense, but it's worth it if you are making good sales.
>
> Best regards,
>
> MikeG
>
>
>
>
>
> On 9/21/17, Tommy via Meteorite-list
>  wrote:
> >Yet another reason not to be on facebook.
> >
> > Regards,
> > Tom
> >
> >
> > On 09/21/2017 07:43 PM, robert via Meteorite-list wrote:
> >> Please be aware of Nabil Karti on Facebook or Kingdom meteorites. Post
> >> fake meteorites claims to work for Aerolite Meteorites. He's friends
> with
> >> 43 people in the community. Pretends to be a woman
> >>
> >>
> >
> > __
> >
> > Visit our Facebook page https://www.facebook.com/meteoritecentral and
> the
> > Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com
> > Meteorite-list mailing list
> > Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
> > https://pairlist3.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> >
>
>
> --
> 
> ---
> Galactic Stone & Ironworks : www.galactic-stone.com
> Twitter : www.twitter.com/galacticstone
> ---
> __
>
> Visit our Facebook page https://www.facebook.com/meteoritecentral and the
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Re: [meteorite-list] Beware

[Galactic Stone & Ironworks via Meteorite-list]

I think half of the people online are not what they claim to be.

It's not just a Facebook thing.

As a dealer, it's foolish to ignore social media. Lots of fee-free
money to be made there. Although, if I was only a collector, I would
likely stay away from social media entirely. It's a lot of hassle and
nonsense, but it's worth it if you are making good sales.

Best regards,

MikeG





On 9/21/17, Tommy via Meteorite-list
 wrote:
>Yet another reason not to be on facebook.
>
> Regards,
> Tom
>
>
> On 09/21/2017 07:43 PM, robert via Meteorite-list wrote:
>> Please be aware of Nabil Karti on Facebook or Kingdom meteorites. Post
>> fake meteorites claims to work for Aerolite Meteorites. He's friends with
>> 43 people in the community. Pretends to be a woman
>>
>>
>
> __
>
> Visit our Facebook page https://www.facebook.com/meteoritecentral and the
> Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
> https://pairlist3.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>


-- 
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Twitter : www.twitter.com/galacticstone
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Re: [meteorite-list] Beware

[Tommy via Meteorite-list]

  Yet another reason not to be on facebook.

Regards,
Tom


On 09/21/2017 07:43 PM, robert via Meteorite-list wrote:

Please be aware of Nabil Karti on Facebook or Kingdom meteorites. Post fake 
meteorites claims to work for Aerolite Meteorites. He's friends with 43 people 
in the community. Pretends to be a woman




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[meteorite-list] Beware

[robert via Meteorite-list]

Please be aware of Nabil Karti on Facebook or Kingdom meteorites. Post fake 
meteorites claims to work for Aerolite Meteorites. He's friends with 43 people 
in the community. Pretends to be a woman

Sent from my iPhone
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[meteorite-list] Beware of dealing with Fayssal Mezgouri

[Jack Schrader via Meteorite-list]

 Fayssal Mezgouri in his most recent email to the list even admits to using the 
old "bait and switch routine" on his victims. Classic! This is how he bilked me 
and others out of thousands of dollars. This is how he operates. He does a few 
small but good deals earning the buyers' trust and then he claims to have 
something rare. He sends a small but authentic sample "the bait", and then 
makes a deal with the buyer for a much larger piece. He collects the money and 
then sends a weathered common chondrite in place of the promised stone "the 
switch". He then claims ignorance as his defense when the buyer realizes that 
he has been had. It is sad and unfortunate that this one dishonest person is 
riding on the good reputation of the many many good and honest Moroccan dealers 
staining the reputations and trustworthiness of all by association. Sad and 
unnecessary. This man could have made a good living by dealing honestly with 
people.  Jack Schrader


Sent from my Samsung Galaxy Tab®|PRO__

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Re: [meteorite-list] Beware of dealing with Fayssal Mezgouri

[Raremeteorites via Meteorite-list]

Like the old saying goes, "A man is only as good as his word"  I remember 
making multimillion dollar computer deals on a handshake followed up later 
with a purchase order in the late 90's and had very few problems.  Now, you 
need to engage super attorneys, that are as cold as ice under pressure, that 
can navigate through all of the lies, in order to enforce simple contracts 
in many cases.


These days, a handshake and a contract mean very little to those blinded by 
greed!  A sense of entitlement is the new norm for those whom have lost any 
sense of a personal code of conduct and do not possess a moral compass.


You may as well talk to a brick wall since these type of crooks will not 
listen and have already convinced themselves they are in the right 
regardless of the facts.


Adam


- Original Message - 
From: "Bigjohn Shea via Meteorite-list" 
<meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com>
To: "PolandMET" <mar...@polandmet.com>; "Mezgouri Fayssal via 
Meteorite-list" <meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com>; 
<meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com>

Sent: Tuesday, April 19, 2016 1:44 PM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Beware of dealing with Fayssal Mezgouri



Mezgouri Fayssal,

You appear to be claiming that it is not your responsibility to be certain 
about what the classifications are for the specimens that you sell.  That 
may be the standard line for Moroccan merchants, but that does not inspire 
confidence in your future buyers.


What you are unaware of doesn't just impact your buyer, it impacts you 
too.  If you want your buyers to feel like they should trust you, then you 
need to provide for them what you claim you can provide.  Otherwise it 
becomes obvious that you are not truly aware of the classification for the 
specimens you sell, and that is a very good reason for others to avoid 
doing business with you.




Sent using the mail.com mail app

On 4/19/16 at 10:55 AM, Mezgouri Fayssal via Meteorite-list wrote:

Dear list membres i need to let you know my history with jack, before we 
make a deal i send him a sample when he get it he said is agree to take a 
piece also i still keep this email , in 11/11/2010 so i need to know whay 
he said that i cheat him , cuz he had a sample in his hand !! evrybody in 
my place will do the same i pay the rocks and i shipp it i keep only 
profite about 570$now i need to solve this probleme but i can find any 
solution already i pay the owner of the rocks and he give us enouth time 
at i get answer from jack is ok there is email that i get from jack all 
my best Jack Schrader <jack.schra...@cox.net>À'Mezgouri Fayssal'11/11/10 
à 10:20 PMHello Fayssal my very best of friends! I today received the 
parcel containing the 135 gram stone (probably an LL6) and the angrite 
samples. Please give me your best price for the 450 grams of angrite 
material. Thank you again for the photos and for the offer and the 
samples, my very best wishes to you and your family, your friend, Jack 
Mezgouri Fayssal cell +212663398272



|  |



Le Mardi 19 avril 2016 13h01, PolandMET via Meteorite-list 
<meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com> a écrit :



 Thanks John.
Im not sure how difficult is to recognize fake sword, but recognizing
meteorites is rather easy (to me). In this case it was my own fault. I
belived to what he write and didnt look on photos close enough. Specimen 
was

too cheap and second it didnt look like 100% diogenite on photos. But
becouse I bough from him earlier, and I was satisfied with my purchases I
didnt questioned what he say. This is typical when routine kick Your ass 
:)


-[ MARCIN CIMALA ][ +48 793567667 ]-
http://www.Meteoryty.pl marcin(at)meteoryty.pl
http://www.PolandMET.com marcin(at)polandmet.com
[ Member of Polish Meteoritical Society ]





> Dear List,
>
> I have blocked him from the Meteorites group on facebook so that he 
> cannot

> use that as a resources for his scams. It is a shame that the meteorite
> community continues to be an uncertain place for collectors and 
> merchants

> to use their hard earned funds.
>
> As a collector of antique Japanese swords as well, I will say that the
> amount of fraud I see in the sales of meteorites is considerably less 
> than

> what I see in the sword collecting community. Perhaps we are doing
> something right that other collecting communities are not.
>
> Hope everyone is having a good week thus far.
> Cheers,
> John A. Shea
> IMCA 3295
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Sent using the mail.com mail app
>
> On 4/19/16 at 6:42 AM, PolandMET via Meteorite-list wrote:
>
>> Hi list
>> I have same experienxes. In 2010 I bough from him 1100g surprisingly
>> cheap
>> diogenite and received badly weathered LL6
>>
>> helle my friend
>> here is the picture of meteorite i have look at the

Re: [meteorite-list] Beware of dealing with Fayssal Mezgouri

[Bigjohn Shea via Meteorite-list]

Mezgouri Fayssal,

You appear to be claiming that it is not your responsibility to be certain 
about what the classifications are for the specimens that you sell.  That may 
be the standard line for Moroccan merchants, but that does not inspire 
confidence in your future buyers.

What you are unaware of doesn't just impact your buyer, it impacts you too.  If 
you want your buyers to feel like they should trust you, then you need to 
provide for them what you claim you can provide.  Otherwise it becomes obvious 
that you are not truly aware of the classification for the specimens you sell, 
and that is a very good reason for others to avoid doing business with you.



Sent using the mail.com mail app

On 4/19/16 at 10:55 AM, Mezgouri Fayssal via Meteorite-list wrote:

> Dear list membres i need to let you know my history  with jack, before we 
> make a deal i send him a sample when he get it he said is agree to take a 
> piece also i still keep this email , in 11/11/2010 so i need to know whay he  
> said that i cheat him , cuz he had a sample in his hand !! evrybody in my 
> place will do the same i pay the rocks and i shipp it i keep only profite 
> about 570$now i need to solve this probleme but i can find any solution 
> already i pay the owner of the rocks and he give us enouth time at i get 
> answer from jack is ok there is email that i get from jack all my best Jack 
> Schrader À'Mezgouri Fayssal'11/11/10 à 10:20 PMHello 
> Fayssal my very best of friends!  I today received the parcel containing the 
> 135 gram stone (probably an LL6) and the angrite samples.  Please give me 
> your best price for the 450 grams of angrite material.  Thank you again for 
> the photos and for the offer and the samples, my very best wishes to you and 
> your family, your friend, Jack  Mezgouri Fayssal cell +212663398272 
> 
>  
> |  |
> 
>  
> 
> Le Mardi 19 avril 2016 13h01, PolandMET via Meteorite-list 
>  a écrit :
>  
> 
>  Thanks John.
> Im not sure how difficult is to recognize fake sword, but recognizing 
> meteorites is rather easy (to me). In this case it was my own fault. I 
> belived to what he write and didnt look on photos close enough. Specimen was 
> too cheap and second it didnt look like 100% diogenite on photos. But 
> becouse I bough from him earlier, and I was satisfied with my purchases I 
> didnt questioned what he say. This is typical when routine kick Your ass :)
> 
> -[ MARCIN CIMALA ][ +48 793567667 ]-
> http://www.Meteoryty.pl             marcin(at)meteoryty.pl
> http://www.PolandMET.com       marcin(at)polandmet.com
> [ Member of Polish Meteoritical Society ]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> > Dear List,
> >
> > I have blocked him from the Meteorites group on facebook so that he cannot 
> > use that as a resources for his scams.  It is a shame that the meteorite 
> > community continues to be an uncertain place for collectors and merchants 
> > to use their hard earned funds.
> >
> > As a collector of antique Japanese swords as well, I will say that the 
> > amount of fraud I see in the sales of meteorites is considerably less than 
> > what I see in the sword collecting community.  Perhaps we are doing 
> > something right that other collecting communities are not.
> >
> > Hope everyone is having a good week thus far.
> > Cheers,
> > John A. Shea
> > IMCA 3295
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Sent using the mail.com mail app
> >
> > On 4/19/16 at 6:42 AM, PolandMET via Meteorite-list wrote:
> >
> >> Hi list
> >> I have same experienxes. In 2010 I bough from him 1100g surprisingly 
> >> cheap
> >> diogenite and received badly weathered LL6
> >>
> >>      helle my friend
> >>      here is the picture of meteorite i have look at the picture and let 
> >> me
> >> know .
> >>      the big one is 1155 gr Diogenite like NWA1877
> >>      kind regards
> >>
> >>
> >>      Mezgouri Fayssal
> >>      cell +212668693856
> >>
> >>
> >> I lost 2200$ never get even a gram of weathered L6 as a refund. I send 
> >> this
> >> specimen back to Said Haddany to try to return it to Fayssal but this 
> >> didnt
> >> work so I pick it back and now its classified. Maybe I can get most of my
> >> money back selling it.
> >> There is soo many 10% trusted persons in Morocco so no need to buy
> >> anything from "dealers" like Fayssal.
> >>
> >> -[ MARCIN CIMALA ][ +48 793567667 ]-
> >> http://www.Meteoryty.pl             marcin(at)meteoryty.pl
> >> http://www.PolandMET.com       marcin(at)polandmet.com
> >> [ Member of Polish Meteoritical Society ]
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Dear list members, Please beware of dealing with this Moroccan dealer.
> >> > Five years ago, he cheated me out of $6250.00. I bought what was 
> >> > supposed
> >> > to be a rare meteorite from him only to receive a weathered H5 
> >> > chondrite.
> >> > For four years I tried to no avail to get my money back even after he
> 

Re: [meteorite-list] Beware of dealing with Fayssal Mezgouri

[Mezgouri Fayssal via Meteorite-list]

Dear list membres i need to let you know my history  with jack, before we make 
a deal i send him a sample when he get it he said is agree to take a piece also 
i still keep this email , in 11/11/2010 so i need to know whay he  said that i 
cheat him , cuz he had a sample in his hand !! evrybody in my place will do the 
same i pay the rocks and i shipp it i keep only profite about 570$now i need to 
solve this probleme but i can find any solution already i pay the owner of the 
rocks and he give us enouth time at i get answer from jack is ok there is email 
that i get from jack all my best Jack Schrader 
À'Mezgouri Fayssal'11/11/10 à 10:20 PMHello Fayssal my 
very best of friends!  I today received the parcel containing the 135 gram 
stone (probably an LL6) and the angrite samples.  Please give me your best 
price for the 450 grams of angrite material.  Thank you again for the photos 
and for the offer and the samples, my very best wishes to you and your family, 
your friend, Jack  Mezgouri Fayssal cell +212663398272 

 
|  |

 

Le Mardi 19 avril 2016 13h01, PolandMET via Meteorite-list 
 a écrit :
 

 Thanks John.
Im not sure how difficult is to recognize fake sword, but recognizing 
meteorites is rather easy (to me). In this case it was my own fault. I 
belived to what he write and didnt look on photos close enough. Specimen was 
too cheap and second it didnt look like 100% diogenite on photos. But 
becouse I bough from him earlier, and I was satisfied with my purchases I 
didnt questioned what he say. This is typical when routine kick Your ass :)

-[ MARCIN CIMALA ][ +48 793567667 ]-
http://www.Meteoryty.pl             marcin(at)meteoryty.pl
http://www.PolandMET.com       marcin(at)polandmet.com
[ Member of Polish Meteoritical Society ]





> Dear List,
>
> I have blocked him from the Meteorites group on facebook so that he cannot 
> use that as a resources for his scams.  It is a shame that the meteorite 
> community continues to be an uncertain place for collectors and merchants 
> to use their hard earned funds.
>
> As a collector of antique Japanese swords as well, I will say that the 
> amount of fraud I see in the sales of meteorites is considerably less than 
> what I see in the sword collecting community.  Perhaps we are doing 
> something right that other collecting communities are not.
>
> Hope everyone is having a good week thus far.
> Cheers,
> John A. Shea
> IMCA 3295
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Sent using the mail.com mail app
>
> On 4/19/16 at 6:42 AM, PolandMET via Meteorite-list wrote:
>
>> Hi list
>> I have same experienxes. In 2010 I bough from him 1100g surprisingly 
>> cheap
>> diogenite and received badly weathered LL6
>>
>>      helle my friend
>>      here is the picture of meteorite i have look at the picture and let 
>> me
>> know .
>>      the big one is 1155 gr Diogenite like NWA1877
>>      kind regards
>>
>>
>>      Mezgouri Fayssal
>>      cell +212668693856
>>
>>
>> I lost 2200$ never get even a gram of weathered L6 as a refund. I send 
>> this
>> specimen back to Said Haddany to try to return it to Fayssal but this 
>> didnt
>> work so I pick it back and now its classified. Maybe I can get most of my
>> money back selling it.
>> There is soo many 10% trusted persons in Morocco so no need to buy
>> anything from "dealers" like Fayssal.
>>
>> -[ MARCIN CIMALA ][ +48 793567667 ]-
>> http://www.Meteoryty.pl             marcin(at)meteoryty.pl
>> http://www.PolandMET.com       marcin(at)polandmet.com
>> [ Member of Polish Meteoritical Society ]
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> >
>> >
>> > Dear list members, Please beware of dealing with this Moroccan dealer.
>> > Five years ago, he cheated me out of $6250.00. I bought what was 
>> > supposed
>> > to be a rare meteorite from him only to receive a weathered H5 
>> > chondrite.
>> > For four years I tried to no avail to get my money back even after he
>> > admitted to sending me a weathered H5 instead of the stone I was 
>> > supposed
>> > to receive. I even had Aziz Habibi intervene for me to no avail. He 
>> > made
>> > promise after promise after promise to return my money. I was even 
>> > willing
>> > to take an equal amount of common chondrites instead of the money. If 
>> > you
>> > send money to this Fayssal Mezgouri, you may find yourself out of a lot 
>> > of
>> > cash. Jack Schrader
>> >
>> >
>> > Sent from my Samsung Galaxy Tab®|PRO
>>
>>
>> 
>>
>>
>> > __
>> >
>> > Visit our Facebook page https://www.facebook.com/meteoritecentral and 
>> > the
>> > Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com
>> > Meteorite-list mailing list
>> > Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
>> > https://pairlist3.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>> >
>>
>> __
>>
>> 

Re: [meteorite-list] Beware of dealing with Fayssal Mezgouri

[PolandMET via Meteorite-list]

Thanks John.
Im not sure how difficult is to recognize fake sword, but recognizing 
meteorites is rather easy (to me). In this case it was my own fault. I 
belived to what he write and didnt look on photos close enough. Specimen was 
too cheap and second it didnt look like 100% diogenite on photos. But 
becouse I bough from him earlier, and I was satisfied with my purchases I 
didnt questioned what he say. This is typical when routine kick Your ass :)


-[ MARCIN CIMALA ][ +48 793567667 ]-
http://www.Meteoryty.pl marcin(at)meteoryty.pl
http://www.PolandMET.com   marcin(at)polandmet.com
[ Member of Polish Meteoritical Society ]






Dear List,

I have blocked him from the Meteorites group on facebook so that he cannot 
use that as a resources for his scams.  It is a shame that the meteorite 
community continues to be an uncertain place for collectors and merchants 
to use their hard earned funds.


As a collector of antique Japanese swords as well, I will say that the 
amount of fraud I see in the sales of meteorites is considerably less than 
what I see in the sword collecting community.  Perhaps we are doing 
something right that other collecting communities are not.


Hope everyone is having a good week thus far.
Cheers,
John A. Shea
IMCA 3295






Sent using the mail.com mail app

On 4/19/16 at 6:42 AM, PolandMET via Meteorite-list wrote:


Hi list
I have same experienxes. In 2010 I bough from him 1100g surprisingly 
cheap

diogenite and received badly weathered LL6

  helle my friend
  here is the picture of meteorite i have look at the picture and let 
me

know .
  the big one is 1155 gr Diogenite like NWA1877
  kind regards


  Mezgouri Fayssal
  cell +212668693856


I lost 2200$ never get even a gram of weathered L6 as a refund. I send 
this
specimen back to Said Haddany to try to return it to Fayssal but this 
didnt

work so I pick it back and now its classified. Maybe I can get most of my
money back selling it.
There is soo many 10% trusted persons in Morocco so no need to buy
anything from "dealers" like Fayssal.

-[ MARCIN CIMALA ][ +48 793567667 ]-
http://www.Meteoryty.pl marcin(at)meteoryty.pl
http://www.PolandMET.com   marcin(at)polandmet.com
[ Member of Polish Meteoritical Society ]





>
>
> Dear list members, Please beware of dealing with this Moroccan dealer.
> Five years ago, he cheated me out of $6250.00. I bought what was 
> supposed
> to be a rare meteorite from him only to receive a weathered H5 
> chondrite.

> For four years I tried to no avail to get my money back even after he
> admitted to sending me a weathered H5 instead of the stone I was 
> supposed
> to receive. I even had Aziz Habibi intervene for me to no avail. He 
> made
> promise after promise after promise to return my money. I was even 
> willing
> to take an equal amount of common chondrites instead of the money. If 
> you
> send money to this Fayssal Mezgouri, you may find yourself out of a lot 
> of

> cash. Jack Schrader
>
>
> Sent from my Samsung Galaxy Tab®|PRO





> __
>
> Visit our Facebook page https://www.facebook.com/meteoritecentral and 
> the

> Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
> https://pairlist3.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>

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Re: [meteorite-list] Beware of dealing with Fayssal Mezgouri

[Bigjohn Shea via Meteorite-list]

Dear List,

I have blocked him from the Meteorites group on facebook so that he cannot use 
that as a resources for his scams.  It is a shame that the meteorite community 
continues to be an uncertain place for collectors and merchants to use their 
hard earned funds.

As a collector of antique Japanese swords as well, I will say that the amount 
of fraud I see in the sales of meteorites is considerably less than what I see 
in the sword collecting community.  Perhaps we are doing something right that 
other collecting communities are not.

Hope everyone is having a good week thus far.
Cheers,
John A. Shea
IMCA 3295






Sent using the mail.com mail app

On 4/19/16 at 6:42 AM, PolandMET via Meteorite-list wrote:

> Hi list
> I have same experienxes. In 2010 I bough from him 1100g surprisingly cheap 
> diogenite and received badly weathered LL6
> 
>   helle my friend
>   here is the picture of meteorite i have look at the picture and let me 
> know .
>   the big one is 1155 gr Diogenite like NWA1877
>   kind regards
> 
> 
>   Mezgouri Fayssal
>   cell +212668693856
> 
> 
> I lost 2200$ never get even a gram of weathered L6 as a refund. I send this 
> specimen back to Said Haddany to try to return it to Fayssal but this didnt 
> work so I pick it back and now its classified. Maybe I can get most of my 
> money back selling it.
> There is soo many 10% trusted persons in Morocco so no need to buy 
> anything from "dealers" like Fayssal.
> 
> -[ MARCIN CIMALA ][ +48 793567667 ]-
> http://www.Meteoryty.pl marcin(at)meteoryty.pl
> http://www.PolandMET.com   marcin(at)polandmet.com
> [ Member of Polish Meteoritical Society ]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> >
> >
> > Dear list members, Please beware of dealing with this Moroccan dealer. 
> > Five years ago, he cheated me out of $6250.00. I bought what was supposed 
> > to be a rare meteorite from him only to receive a weathered H5 chondrite. 
> > For four years I tried to no avail to get my money back even after he 
> > admitted to sending me a weathered H5 instead of the stone I was supposed 
> > to receive. I even had Aziz Habibi intervene for me to no avail. He made 
> > promise after promise after promise to return my money. I was even willing 
> > to take an equal amount of common chondrites instead of the money. If you 
> > send money to this Fayssal Mezgouri, you may find yourself out of a lot of 
> > cash. Jack Schrader
> >
> >
> > Sent from my Samsung Galaxy Tab®|PRO
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> > __
> >
> > Visit our Facebook page https://www.facebook.com/meteoritecentral and the 
> > Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com
> > Meteorite-list mailing list
> > Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
> > https://pairlist3.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> > 
> 
> __
> 
> Visit our Facebook page https://www.facebook.com/meteoritecentral and the 
> Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
> https://pairlist3.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
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Re: [meteorite-list] Beware of dealing with Fayssal Mezgouri

[PolandMET via Meteorite-list]

Hi list
I have same experienxes. In 2010 I bough from him 1100g surprisingly cheap 
diogenite and received badly weathered LL6


 helle my friend
 here is the picture of meteorite i have look at the picture and let me 
know .

 the big one is 1155 gr Diogenite like NWA1877
 kind regards


 Mezgouri Fayssal
 cell +212668693856


I lost 2200$ never get even a gram of weathered L6 as a refund. I send this 
specimen back to Said Haddany to try to return it to Fayssal but this didnt 
work so I pick it back and now its classified. Maybe I can get most of my 
money back selling it.
There is soo many 10% trusted persons in Morocco so no need to buy 
anything from "dealers" like Fayssal.


-[ MARCIN CIMALA ][ +48 793567667 ]-
http://www.Meteoryty.pl marcin(at)meteoryty.pl
http://www.PolandMET.com   marcin(at)polandmet.com
[ Member of Polish Meteoritical Society ]








Dear list members, Please beware of dealing with this Moroccan dealer. 
Five years ago, he cheated me out of $6250.00. I bought what was supposed 
to be a rare meteorite from him only to receive a weathered H5 chondrite. 
For four years I tried to no avail to get my money back even after he 
admitted to sending me a weathered H5 instead of the stone I was supposed 
to receive. I even had Aziz Habibi intervene for me to no avail. He made 
promise after promise after promise to return my money. I was even willing 
to take an equal amount of common chondrites instead of the money. If you 
send money to this Fayssal Mezgouri, you may find yourself out of a lot of 
cash. Jack Schrader



Sent from my Samsung Galaxy Tab®|PRO







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Re: [meteorite-list] Beware of dealing with Fayssal Mezgouri

[Galactic Stone & Ironworks via Meteorite-list]

Hi Jack,

Thanks for the warning.  And, I think this speaks a lot to your good
character. You went above and beyond to give this man a chance to make
things right before you went public. Only after exhausting all other
avenues did you take this last step. You did the right thing, and then
some.

Now I have to go make sure this man is not a member of any of the
Facebook groups that I admin. Lifetime ban for fraud.

Best regards,

MikeG



On 4/18/16, Jack Schrader via Meteorite-list
 wrote:
>
>
> Dear list members, Please beware of dealing with this Moroccan dealer.
> Five years ago, he cheated me out of $6250.00. I bought what was supposed to
> be a rare meteorite from him only to receive a weathered H5 chondrite.  For
> four years I tried to no avail to get my money back even after he admitted
> to sending me a weathered H5 instead of the stone I was supposed to receive.
> I even had Aziz Habibi intervene for me to no avail. He made promise after
> promise after promise to return my money. I was even willing to take an
> equal amount of common chondrites instead of the money.  If you send money
> to this Fayssal Mezgouri, you may find yourself out of a lot of cash. Jack
> Schrader
>
>
> Sent from my Samsung Galaxy Tab®|PRO


-- 

www.galactic-stone.com
www.facebook.com/galacticstone
www.twitter.com/galacticstone
www.pinterest.com/galacticstone
www.instagram.com/galacticstone
www.ello.co/galacticstone
www.tsu.com/galacticstone

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[meteorite-list] Beware of dealing with Fayssal Mezgouri

[Jack Schrader via Meteorite-list]

Dear list members,     Please beware of dealing with this Moroccan dealer.   
Five years ago, he cheated me out of $6250.00. I bought what was supposed to be 
a rare meteorite from him only to receive a weathered H5 chondrite.  For four 
years I tried to no avail to get my money back even after he admitted to 
sending me a weathered H5 instead of the stone I was supposed to receive. I 
even had Aziz Habibi intervene for me to no avail. He made promise after 
promise after promise to return my money. I was even willing to take an equal 
amount of common chondrites instead of the money.  If you send money to this 
Fayssal Mezgouri, you may find yourself out of a lot of cash. Jack Schrader


Sent from my Samsung Galaxy Tab®|PRO__

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[meteorite-list] beware of this ebay buyer

[Shawn Alan]

Hello Listers

I was contacted by this ebay buyer horrocks12312 about a meteorite. he had also 
made some bids on a item, and then he made a retraction saying that the 
description of the auction was changed, when it wasn't. I have a zero tolerance 
to retracting when there is no follow up and also the when the individual lied 
about the retraction. Lastly, this individual has two buys and hasn't bought a 
meteorite under that ebay name, so it seems, they no nothing about meteorites, 
or up to no good.
 Shawn Alan
IMCA 1633
ebay store
http://stores.ebay.com/imca1633ny?_rdc=1
http://meteoritefalls.com/
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Re: [meteorite-list] beware of this ebay buyer

[David Griffith]

I often wonder about ebay...I buy on it of course, but am pissed off to see
the same people continually get away with retracting. There is one guy on
there who has upwards of 60 retractions now, and he continues to be allowed
to bid. If I see him on an auction, I just give up because I know he'll bid
up, then retract later anyway. A$$holes like that should not be able to bid.
I mean come on...60 + typos, in a month? LOL.

-Original Message-
From: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com
[mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Shawn Alan
Sent: May-25-13 8:04 PM
To: Meteorite Central
Subject: [meteorite-list] beware of this ebay buyer

Hello Listers

I was contacted by this ebay buyer horrocks12312 about a meteorite. he had
also made some bids on a item, and then he made a retraction saying that the
description of the auction was changed, when it wasn't. I have a zero
tolerance to retracting when there is no follow up and also the when the
individual lied about the retraction. Lastly, this individual has two buys
and hasn't bought a meteorite under that ebay name, so it seems, they no
nothing about meteorites, or up to no good.
 Shawn Alan
IMCA 1633
ebay store
http://stores.ebay.com/imca1633ny?_rdc=1
http://meteoritefalls.com/
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[meteorite-list] Beware - Creatures of The Desert

[Adam Hupe]

Jim mentioned large bugs out here.

I had one of these land on my head where I squashed it.  What a mess.  Another 
time, one landed on my sandal thinking it was a tarantula.  After hearing how 
painful a sting is from one of these bad boys, I made record time getting it 
off 
of my foot.

Link to a Tarantula Hawk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P5fDTABsn5Y

the sting:
The sting, particularly of Pesis Formosea, is among the most painful of any 
insect, but the intense pain only lasts for about 3 minutes. Commenting on his 
own experience, one researcher described the pain as  …immediate, excruciating 
pain that simply shuts down one's ability to  do anything, except, perhaps, 
scream. Mental discipline simply does not  work in these situations.  Some 
victims pass out from the pain or curl up in the fetal position crying out 
momma.


Link:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tarantula_hawk
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Re: [meteorite-list] Beware - Creatures of The Desert

[Richard Montgomery]

Hi List!   With my entomological background, I can attest first-hand to the 
sting of the T-Hawkwhile collecting (insects) on the shores of Parymid 
Lake in Nevada, naturally I swept a large one into my net and my usual 
capture techiques escaped me as it also tried to escape me.  It did; I 
didn't escape the sting.  What I remember was akin to an electric 
shock...literally, that buzzing feeling...and fortunately no allergic 
reaction which would be akin to no water in the desert x 1000.  Put me on 
the ground for ten minutes.


[I should have had my eyes on the ground for NA 
blood-vesel-DNA-Martian-chondrites :))


Richard Montgomery



- Original Message - 
From: Adam Hupe raremeteori...@yahoo.com

To: Adam meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
Sent: Thursday, April 14, 2011 2:30 PM
Subject: [meteorite-list] Beware - Creatures of The Desert



Jim mentioned large bugs out here.

I had one of these land on my head where I squashed it.  What a mess. 
Another
time, one landed on my sandal thinking it was a tarantula.  After hearing 
how
painful a sting is from one of these bad boys, I made record time getting 
it off

of my foot.

Link to a Tarantula Hawk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P5fDTABsn5Y

the sting:
The sting, particularly of Pesis Formosea, is among the most painful of 
any
insect, but the intense pain only lasts for about 3 minutes. Commenting on 
his
own experience, one researcher described the pain as  …immediate, 
excruciating
pain that simply shuts down one's ability to  do anything, except, 
perhaps,
scream. Mental discipline simply does not  work in these situations. 
Some

victims pass out from the pain or curl up in the fetal position crying out
momma.


Link:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tarantula_hawk
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[meteorite-list] Beware of Steve Arnold Chicago Ebay scams part 3+

[drtanuki]

 Dear list,
   Steve Arnold Chicago  has another Ebay scam?; pulling
 the auction the day of the auction and cancelling all bids. Or Steve do you 
have a very good explanation?  

  Potential buyers or bidders beware!  And whoever purchased the meteorite 
outside of EBAY, if they did, you are just as guilty as Big Steve.

 Any other bidders that are List members or have had the same happen on  his 
other auctions please contact me as I am going to lodge a formal complaint with 
EBAY and have him removed as a seller.

  For all of you naysayers that take his free gifts and support him on the 
met-list please take a look and think before next time coming to his aid as a 
dupe.
 Thank you! Dirk Ross...Tokyo



 Item number:290341318450
 http://offer.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewBidsitem=290341318450
 
 
 Bidder s***v  (Feedback score is 100 to 499)
     Cancelled: US $13.00
 Explanation: The seller ended the listing early and
 cancelled all bids.     Bid: Aug-19-09
 07:12:41 PDT
 Cancelled: Aug-20-09 17:26:00 PDT
 Bidder 6***rFeedback score is 500 to 999    
 Cancelled: US $27.99
 Explanation: The seller ended the listing early and
 cancelled all bids.     Bid: Aug-19-09
 09:55:51 PDT
 Cancelled: Aug-20-09 17:26:00 PDT
 Bidder s***s     Cancelled: US $12.00
 Explanation: The seller ended the listing early and
 cancelled all bids.     Bid: Aug-19-09
 06:53:49 PDT
 Cancelled: Aug-20-09 17:26:00 PDT
 Bidder l***eFeedback score is 100 to 499    
 Cancelled: US $46.98
 Explanation: The seller ended the listing early and
 cancelled all bids.     Bid: Aug-18-09
 19:52:27 PDT
 Cancelled: Aug-20-09 17:26:00 PDT
 Bidder c***4Feedback score is 50 to 99    
 Cancelled: US $59.65
 Explanation: The seller ended the listing early and
 cancelled all bids.     Bid: Aug-19-09
 10:23:52 PDT
 Cancelled: Aug-20-09 17:26:00 PDT
 Bidder n***aFeedback score is 50 to 99    
 Cancelled: US $1.25
 Explanation: The seller ended the listing early and
 cancelled all bids.     Bid: Aug-18-09
 20:50:08 PDT
 Cancelled: Aug-20-09 17:26:00 PDT
 
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Re: [meteorite-list] Beware of Steve Arnold Chicago Ebay scams part 3+

[John Gwilliam]

Dirk and List,

Friday morning editorial.

It will be interesting to see how Steve Arnold Chicago responds to 
this allegation, that is, if he responds at all. My guess is that 
he'll go into hiding for a time and then reappear as if nothing has 
happened. But, in all fairness, I'm willing to wait a day or two and 
see how it all shakes out.


I've known Dirk for a lot of years and spent many hours on the phone 
with him when two of our fellow List members were on an extended 
vacation to Oman. He's a stand-up guy and I don't recall ever 
hearing anything negative about him. Chicago Steve, on the other 
hand, well... I think I'll simply let his reputation speak for itself.


If I had to put my hard earned cash on the table and gamble on the 
outcome of this situation, I think that all of you already know who I 
would bet on.  Exposing fraud on the internet and within our 
communities is, or should be, the duty of all honest people. If your 
support of someone is colored by free beer, personal favors or, in 
this case, freebie meteorites, then maybe it's time to take a look in 
the mirror.


I'm trying not to be bias. I'm merely relying on past experience to 
help me make a judgement call for myself. If some of you think this 
makes me a naysayer then so be it.


Best Regards, and have a great weekend,

John Gwilliam

At 02:41 AM 8/21/2009, drtanuki wrote:

 Dear list,
   Steve Arnold Chicago  has another Ebay scam?; pulling
 the auction the day of the auction and cancelling all bids. Or 
Steve do you have a very good explanation?


  Potential buyers or bidders beware!  And whoever purchased the 
meteorite outside of EBAY, if they did, you are just as guilty as Big Steve.


 Any other bidders that are List members or have had the same 
happen on  his other auctions please contact me as I am going to 
lodge a formal complaint with EBAY and have him removed as a seller.


  For all of you naysayers that take his free gifts and support 
him on the met-list please take a look and think before next time 
coming to his aid as a dupe.

 Thank you! Dirk Ross...Tokyo



 Item number:290341318450
 http://offer.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewBidsitem=290341318450


 Bidder s***v  (Feedback score is 100 to 499)
 Cancelled: US $13.00
 Explanation: The seller ended the listing early and
 cancelled all bids. Bid: Aug-19-09
 07:12:41 PDT
 Cancelled: Aug-20-09 17:26:00 PDT
 Bidder 6***rFeedback score is 500 to 999
 Cancelled: US $27.99
 Explanation: The seller ended the listing early and
 cancelled all bids. Bid: Aug-19-09
 09:55:51 PDT
 Cancelled: Aug-20-09 17:26:00 PDT
 Bidder s***s Cancelled: US $12.00
 Explanation: The seller ended the listing early and
 cancelled all bids. Bid: Aug-19-09
 06:53:49 PDT
 Cancelled: Aug-20-09 17:26:00 PDT
 Bidder l***eFeedback score is 100 to 499
 Cancelled: US $46.98
 Explanation: The seller ended the listing early and
 cancelled all bids. Bid: Aug-18-09
 19:52:27 PDT
 Cancelled: Aug-20-09 17:26:00 PDT
 Bidder c***4Feedback score is 50 to 99
 Cancelled: US $59.65
 Explanation: The seller ended the listing early and
 cancelled all bids. Bid: Aug-19-09
 10:23:52 PDT
 Cancelled: Aug-20-09 17:26:00 PDT
 Bidder n***aFeedback score is 50 to 99
 Cancelled: US $1.25
 Explanation: The seller ended the listing early and
 cancelled all bids. Bid: Aug-18-09
 20:50:08 PDT
 Cancelled: Aug-20-09 17:26:00 PDT

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Re: [meteorite-list] Beware of Steve Arnold Chicago Ebay scams part 3+

[GeoZay]

If your 
support of someone is  colored by free beer, personal favors or, in 
this case, freebie meteorites,  then maybe it's time to take a look in 
the mirror.

Well...I  looked in the mirror and I didn't see any guilt. If someone wants 
to give me  something free and there's no strings attached, I won't prevent 
it from coming  my way. :O) I've received several freebies from Steve and 
he has never asked  anything of me. 
GeoZay  

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Re: [meteorite-list] Beware of Steve Arnold Chicago Ebay scams part 3+

[Matthias Bärmann]

No naysayer at all, John. Thanks for your objective and noble statement.

Thanks also to Dirk for his attempt to bring a bit more light into this 
case.


A nice weekend to everyone,

my best,

Matthias Baermann

- Original Message - 
From: John Gwilliam j...@cox.net
To: drtanuki drtan...@yahoo.com; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com; 
steve arnold stevenarnold60...@yahoo.com; Elton Jones 
mstrema...@yahoo.com

Sent: Friday, August 21, 2009 4:38 PM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Beware of Steve Arnold Chicago Ebay scams part 
3+




Dirk and List,

Friday morning editorial.

It will be interesting to see how Steve Arnold Chicago responds to this 
allegation, that is, if he responds at all. My guess is that he'll go into 
hiding for a time and then reappear as if nothing has happened. But, in 
all fairness, I'm willing to wait a day or two and see how it all shakes 
out.


I've known Dirk for a lot of years and spent many hours on the phone with 
him when two of our fellow List members were on an extended vacation to 
Oman. He's a stand-up guy and I don't recall ever hearing anything 
negative about him. Chicago Steve, on the other hand, well... I think I'll 
simply let his reputation speak for itself.


If I had to put my hard earned cash on the table and gamble on the outcome 
of this situation, I think that all of you already know who I would bet 
on.  Exposing fraud on the internet and within our communities is, or 
should be, the duty of all honest people. If your support of someone is 
colored by free beer, personal favors or, in this case, freebie 
meteorites, then maybe it's time to take a look in the mirror.


I'm trying not to be bias. I'm merely relying on past experience to help 
me make a judgement call for myself. If some of you think this makes me a 
naysayer then so be it.


Best Regards, and have a great weekend,

John Gwilliam

At 02:41 AM 8/21/2009, drtanuki wrote:

 Dear list,
   Steve Arnold Chicago  has another Ebay scam?; pulling
 the auction the day of the auction and cancelling all bids. Or Steve do 
you have a very good explanation?


  Potential buyers or bidders beware!  And whoever purchased the 
meteorite outside of EBAY, if they did, you are just as guilty as Big 
Steve.


 Any other bidders that are List members or have had the same happen on 
his other auctions please contact me as I am going to lodge a formal 
complaint with EBAY and have him removed as a seller.


  For all of you naysayers that take his free gifts and support him on 
the met-list please take a look and think before next time coming to his 
aid as a dupe.

 Thank you! Dirk Ross...Tokyo



 Item number:290341318450
 http://offer.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewBidsitem=290341318450


 Bidder s***v  (Feedback score is 100 to 499)
 Cancelled: US $13.00
 Explanation: The seller ended the listing early and
 cancelled all bids. Bid: Aug-19-09
 07:12:41 PDT
 Cancelled: Aug-20-09 17:26:00 PDT
 Bidder 6***rFeedback score is 500 to 999
 Cancelled: US $27.99
 Explanation: The seller ended the listing early and
 cancelled all bids. Bid: Aug-19-09
 09:55:51 PDT
 Cancelled: Aug-20-09 17:26:00 PDT
 Bidder s***s Cancelled: US $12.00
 Explanation: The seller ended the listing early and
 cancelled all bids. Bid: Aug-19-09
 06:53:49 PDT
 Cancelled: Aug-20-09 17:26:00 PDT
 Bidder l***eFeedback score is 100 to 499
 Cancelled: US $46.98
 Explanation: The seller ended the listing early and
 cancelled all bids. Bid: Aug-18-09
 19:52:27 PDT
 Cancelled: Aug-20-09 17:26:00 PDT
 Bidder c***4Feedback score is 50 to 99
 Cancelled: US $59.65
 Explanation: The seller ended the listing early and
 cancelled all bids. Bid: Aug-19-09
 10:23:52 PDT
 Cancelled: Aug-20-09 17:26:00 PDT
 Bidder n***aFeedback score is 50 to 99
 Cancelled: US $1.25
 Explanation: The seller ended the listing early and
 cancelled all bids. Bid: Aug-18-09
 20:50:08 PDT
 Cancelled: Aug-20-09 17:26:00 PDT

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Re: [meteorite-list] Beware of Steve Arnold Chicago Ebay scams part 3+

[Meteorites USA]

Hi listees,

I probably shouldn't respond to this. But it is related to meteorites. 
This is NOT an attack on anyone, but rather something to add a little 
perspective to the situation.


I too have spoken with Dirk on many occasions and find him a rather 
interesting guy to speak with. He's always polite and professional and I 
respect him, his site, and what he has contributed to the meteorite 
community. However I have to disagree (in a respectful way) with the use 
of the words scam, and fraud in this case. These are libelous words if 
no proof exists, and can be considered real accusations of fraud. Legal 
issues could come of this.


Canceling an auction when it has bids is NOT a legal issue, though it 
may be unethical IF the only reason is to sell to another person off of 
Ebay. Which is a breach of Ebay policy and violation of Ebay's TOS 
(Terms of Service).


However... Even though it is against Ebay policy, it's NOT against the 
law. To throw around words like scam and fraud is dangerous in this 
circumstance. Even habitual canceling of auctions may not be illegal. 
Certainly unethical, but illegal? I don't know.


Let me give you a scenario. Let's say you're seller, and you list an 
item for sale. It gets a few bids and you're excited to sell it. Then in 
your excitement as you're moving stuff around your office or store you 
accidentally break the item! Ooops! Now what? You immediately send out 
an email to the persons bidding notifying them of the problem right? 
NOPE! Ebay doesn't allow you to contact bidders (unless of course they 
are a previous customer). Now you're in a pickle. What to do? Is it 
fraud if you end your auction even though you have bids? If you think it 
is then you need not be on Ebay because you don't know how Ebay works. 
Again, no offense... Ebay is NOT the law, it's a website that people 
sell on. Simple as that.


I'm not saying this to defend Steve, but rather to point out that the 
libelous words used are inappropriate for this circumstance. Simply 
canceling an auction is not grounds for the words used unless you have 
proof. A link to an auction that has had canceled bids is NOT proof of 
anything other than an ended auction.


I certainly hope I do not lose business because of this post, if so then 
those who would not purchase from me for such reasons, well, let's just 
say I would rather not have them as customers anyway. No offense...


I have no problems with Steve personally or business wise. Steve has 
NEVER scammed or conned me out of anything EVER. If he had I would never 
do business with him again. He has been a good customer since I've been 
selling meteorites, as have many of you.


Sometimes people confuse Ebay with the law, and this infuriates me as a 
seller. It's something I'm obviously passionate about because I've been 
selling for so long, but what really irks me is that people assume that 
because Ebay says it's so, then it's gospel. Ebay sucks for sellers! 
Everyone who sells on Ebay knows that. Their fees are outrageously 
expensive and equates to 15% to 25% of your gross sales. The only reason 
we use Ebay at all is for the reach. The sheer advertising power is 
phenomenal. You can reach millions of potential customers for pennies. 
THAT'S why Ebay is so popular. Oh, and because you can find really good 
deals on cool stuff like meteorites too... ;)


The point to this post is not that I'm attacking or defending anyone but 
rather pointing out that there are valid reasons for sellers to cancel 
an auction. Maybe you listed an item and it got stolen, or broken, or 
you relisted it by accident (this might happen to a larger seller who 
lists hundreds or thousands of items per month). Maybe it was a grilled 
cheese sandwich with Jesus on it and your dog ate it!


Thanks for reading this very long post. I promise my next one won't be 
as long... ;)


Regards,
Eric










John Gwilliam wrote:

Dirk and List,

Friday morning editorial.

It will be interesting to see how Steve Arnold Chicago responds to 
this allegation, that is, if he responds at all. My guess is that 
he'll go into hiding for a time and then reappear as if nothing has 
happened. But, in all fairness, I'm willing to wait a day or two and 
see how it all shakes out.


I've known Dirk for a lot of years and spent many hours on the phone 
with him when two of our fellow List members were on an extended 
vacation to Oman. He's a stand-up guy and I don't recall ever 
hearing anything negative about him. Chicago Steve, on the other hand, 
well... I think I'll simply let his reputation speak for itself.


If I had to put my hard earned cash on the table and gamble on the 
outcome of this situation, I think that all of you already know who I 
would bet on.  Exposing fraud on the internet and within our 
communities is, or should be, the duty of all honest people. If your 
support of someone is colored by free beer, personal favors or, in 
this case, freebie meteorites, then maybe 

Re: [meteorite-list] Beware of Steve Arnold Chicago Ebay scams part3+

[Matthias Bärmann]

Hello GeoZay,

I'm sure nobody would begrudge you the presents you received.

In any case, my personal experience says: presents can be dangerous as they 
knot an invisible ribbon between two persons. Not by chance old cultures 
often developed highly complecated rules and systems of giving and 
receiving. It's sometimes not such an easy and innocent affair.


So I agree with Anita - there could be persons I wouldn't buy a 1 pound 
lunar from for free. But, who knows, if the 1 pound would come from 
Mercury? ;-) No, I wouldn't either.


Regards,

Matthias Baermann


I wouldn't buy a 1 pound lunar from him for free
- Original Message - 
From: geo...@aol.com

To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
Sent: Friday, August 21, 2009 4:57 PM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Beware of Steve Arnold Chicago Ebay scams 
part3+




If your

support of someone is  colored by free beer, personal favors or, in
this case, freebie meteorites,  then maybe it's time to take a look in
the mirror.

Well...I  looked in the mirror and I didn't see any guilt. If someone 
wants
to give me  something free and there's no strings attached, I won't 
prevent

it from coming  my way. :O) I've received several freebies from Steve and
he has never asked  anything of me.
GeoZay

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Re: [meteorite-list] Beware of Steve Arnold Chicago Ebay scams part 3+

[Darren Garrison]

In light of the earlier proposal that all criticisms be phrased in the form of
poetry, I quickly wrote this little ditty:

`Twas brillig, and the slithy toves
  Did gyre and gimble in the wabe:
All mimsy were the borogoves,
  And the mome raths outgrabe.

Beware Steve Arnold, my son!
  The jaws that bite, the claws that catch!
Beware the Jubjub bird, and shun
  The frumious Bandersnatch!

He took his vorpal sword in hand:
  Long time the manxome foe he sought --
So rested he by the Tumtum tree,
  And stood awhile in thought.

And, as in uffish thought he stood,
  Steve Arnold, with eyes of flame,
Came whiffling through the tulgey wood,
  And burbled as it came!

One, two! One, two! And through and through
  The vorpal blade went snicker-snack!
He left it dead, and with its head
  He went galumphing back.

And, has thou slain Steve Arnold?
  Come to my arms, my beamish boy!
O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!'
  He chortled in his joy.

`Twas brillig, and the slithy toves
  Did gyre and gimble in the wabe;
All mimsy were the borogoves,
  And the mome raths outgrabe. 



Here is a dramatic reading, though they screw up a few lines:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nm9o6DH_uzE
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Re: [meteorite-list] Beware of Steve Arnold Chicago Ebay scams part3+

[GeoZay]

MathiasIn any case, my personal  experience says: presents can be 
dangerous as they 
knot an invisible ribbon  between two persons. Not by chance old cultures 
often developed highly  complecated rules and systems of giving and 
receiving. It's sometimes not  such an easy and innocent affair. 

I just told someone else  off on the side that Steven has never done me 
wrong with the freebies. I pretty  much deduce that I'm not the only person 
that gets them. He's been offering  freebies for a long time now and I don't 
see a big rush of supporters when the  ridicule comes up. So I don't think 
Steve expects anyone to come to his defense  either. If he was, I think the 
giving out of freebies would disappear a long  time ago.  He has never asked 
anything of me other than a mailing address  to send the meteorites to. Just 
about the only thing I've ever said to him was,  I'll take one when offered 
and Thank You when they were received. Sometimes  he has to asked for the 
mailing address again...but that's pretty much the  conversation. My 
defense for him (and a few others that have been picked on in  the past for 
other 
reasons), rests mainly that he has never done me wrong, so I  got no beef. 
If someone else does, then that should be between the two of them.  I think 
some others just like to pile on because that somehow makes them seem  more 
acceptable with the majority. I think what rubs a lot of folks negatively  
towards Steve is the fact that he does give away freebies, or resells 
meteorites  soon after being acquired. A lot of these folks are probably 
sellers or 
want to  be's and they resent seeing something dispatched so cheaply. They 
probably see  this as the lowering of value of their goods?  

So I agree  with Anita - there could be persons I wouldn't buy a 1 pound 
lunar from for  free. But, who knows, if the 1 pound would come from 
Mercury? ;-) No, I  wouldn't either.

I probably wouldn't buy it either...but if  Steven or anyone else has one 
of these up as a freebie, my hands are up. Let me  know who you are and I'll 
give you my mailing address.  :O) 
George Zay  

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steps! 
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Re: [meteorite-list] Beware of Steve Arnold Chicago Ebay scams part 3+

[John Gwilliam]

The sellers motive for closing an auction early and canceling all 
bids should indeed be taken into account. If the item is broken, 
stolen or you find out it does not function properly after you listed 
it, then you have a legitimate reason to close an auction early and 
cancel bids.


This situation is different.  The sole motive ( I talked with Dirk on 
the phone this morning and have seen, in writing, Steve's reply to 
him) in this case is simply about being offered more money (actually 
more value in a trade) which is unethical. If we throw ethics out the 
window and determine or behavior based singularly on what is legal, 
then we can become like the big business plunderers, who claim 
everything they did was within the law.


Cheers,

John


At 08:54 AM 8/21/2009, Meteorites USA wrote (in part):
The point to this post is not that I'm attacking or defending anyone 
but rather pointing out that there are valid reasons for sellers to 
cancel an auction. Maybe you listed an item and it got stolen, or 
broken, or you relisted it by accident (this might happen to a 
larger seller who lists hundreds or thousands of items per month). 
Maybe it was a grilled cheese sandwich with Jesus on it and your dog ate it!


Thanks for reading this very long post. I promise my next one won't 
be as long... ;)


Regards,
Eric


John Gwilliam

Too many people were born on third base
and go through life thinking they hit a triple. 


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Re: [meteorite-list] Beware of Steve Arnold Chicago Ebay scams part 3+

[GeoZay]

In light of the earlier proposal that  all criticisms be phrased in the 
form of
poetry, I quickly wrote this little  ditty:

`Twas brillig, and the slithy toves
Did gyre and gimble  in the wabe:
All mimsy were the borogoves,
And the mome raths  outgrabe.

Beware Steve Arnold, my son!
The jaws that bite, the  claws that catch!
Beware the Jubjub bird, and shun
The frumious  Bandersnatch!

He took his vorpal sword in hand:
Long time the  manxome foe he sought --
So rested he by the Tumtum tree,
And stood  awhile in thought.

And, as in uffish thought he stood,
Steve  Arnold, with eyes of flame,
Came whiffling through the tulgey wood,
And burbled as it came!

One, two! One, two! And through and  through
The vorpal blade went snicker-snack!
He left it dead, and  with its head
He went galumphing back.

And, has thou slain  Steve Arnold?
Come to my arms, my beamish boy!
O frabjous day!  Callooh! Callay!'
He chortled in his joy.

`Twas brillig, and  the slithy toves
Did gyre and gimble in the wabe;
All mimsy were  the borogoves,
And the mome raths outgrabe. 


I  don't know what the hell you just said...but it does look poetic. :O)
GeoZay  

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steps! 
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Re: [meteorite-list] Beware of Russians bearing Seimchan

[meteor a]

Magadan news say that really at night 6/7 of June from the regional museum a 
piece of Seymchan meteorite was stolen. It was 7255 grams. There is criminal 
investigation now.
They say that it could be after a TV program with stupid words about very high 
prices for the meteorites on black market... no comments...
Serge


From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]: [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Sat, 9 Jun 2007 11:41:51 
-0600Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Beware of Russians bearing Seimchan


Very strange that it is a new from Bulgarian site. Nothing from Russian side - 
I just searched the net.If I'll find some details I'll try to forward them to 
all.All the best,Serge

 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Date: Sat, 
 9 Jun 2007 11:08:30 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Beware of Russians 
 bearing Seimchan  http://www.novinite.com/view_news.php?id=81664   Chunk 
 of Meteorite Stolen from Russian Museum   9 June 2007, Saturday  A chunk 
 of a meteorite weighing over 7 kilograms has been stolen from a museum in 
 the remote Magadan Region in Russia's Far East on Saturday.  A local 
 Interior Ministry spokesperson explained the thieves broke into a history 
 museum in the village of Seimchan at night and stole a part of the meteorite 
 named after the residential place.   It is supposed that the offenders have 
 been inspired by a recent TV program, which discussed the high value of 
 meteorite pieces on Russia's black market.  The Seimchan meteorite was 
 found in 1967 near the Seimchan gold mine in the Magadan Region.  The 
 local police authorities are still investigating the case. 
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Re: [meteorite-list] Beware of Russians bearing Seimchan

[meteor a]

Very strange that it is a new from Bulgarian site. Nothing from Russian side - 
I just searched the net.
If I'll find some details I'll try to forward them to all.
All the best,
Serge



 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Date: Sat, 
 9 Jun 2007 11:08:30 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Beware of Russians 
 bearing Seimchan  http://www.novinite.com/view_news.php?id=81664   Chunk 
 of Meteorite Stolen from Russian Museum   9 June 2007, Saturday  A chunk 
 of a meteorite weighing over 7 kilograms has been stolen from a museum in 
 the remote Magadan Region in Russia's Far East on Saturday.  A local 
 Interior Ministry spokesperson explained the thieves broke into a history 
 museum in the village of Seimchan at night and stole a part of the meteorite 
 named after the residential place.   It is supposed that the offenders have 
 been inspired by a recent TV program, which discussed the high value of 
 meteorite pieces on Russia's black market.  The Seimchan meteorite was 
 found in 1967 near the Seimchan gold mine in the Magadan Region.  The 
 local police authorities are still investigating the case. 
 __ Meteorite-list mailing list 
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[meteorite-list] Beware of Russians bearing Seimchan

[Darren Garrison]

http://www.novinite.com/view_news.php?id=81664


Chunk of Meteorite Stolen from Russian Museum


9 June 2007, Saturday

A chunk of a meteorite weighing over 7 kilograms has been stolen from a museum
in the remote Magadan Region in Russia's Far East on Saturday.

A local Interior Ministry spokesperson explained the thieves broke into a
history museum in the village of Seimchan at night and stole a part of the
meteorite named after the residential place. 

It is supposed that the offenders have been inspired by a recent TV program,
which discussed the high value of meteorite pieces on Russia's black market.

The Seimchan meteorite was found in 1967 near the Seimchan gold mine in the
Magadan Region.

The local police authorities are still investigating the case.
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Re: [meteorite-list] Beware of Russians bearing Seimchan

[PolandMET]

Hmm, what they mean Russia's (meteorite) black market ?
Selling meteorites in Russia is illegal ? I hear that only exporting is 
forbidden. Black market meteorites can't be more expensive than specimens 
legaly owned and for example Seymchan is not very rare (read difficult to 
buy), so that person must be very desperated or he not think long about this 
where he will now sell his new specimen.



-[ MARCIN CIMALA ]-[ I.M.C.A.#3667 ]-
http://www.Meteoryt.net [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.PolandMET.com   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.Gao-Guenie.com  GSM +48(607)535 195
[ Member of Polish Meteoritical Society ]

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Re: [meteorite-list] Beware of Russians bearing Seimchan

[Martin Altmann]

It is supposed that the offenders have been inspired by a recent TV
program, which discussed the high value of meteorite pieces on Russia's
black market.

Interesting, if it's true, then one can see, which effects can be yielded by
the often so hopelessly exaggerated figures about the value of meteorites
the laypeople in media or even some scientists from time to time are
hawking.

If the thieves would have known, that such a piece would cost let's say
3000$ only, then maybe they would thought twice, whether it would be worth
to break into that museum.



-Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
Von: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Im Auftrag von Darren
Garrison
Gesendet: Samstag, 9. Juni 2007 17:09
An: Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
Betreff: [meteorite-list] Beware of Russians bearing Seimchan

http://www.novinite.com/view_news.php?id=81664


Chunk of Meteorite Stolen from Russian Museum


9 June 2007, Saturday

A chunk of a meteorite weighing over 7 kilograms has been stolen from a
museum
in the remote Magadan Region in Russia's Far East on Saturday.

A local Interior Ministry spokesperson explained the thieves broke into a
history museum in the village of Seimchan at night and stole a part of the
meteorite named after the residential place. 

It is supposed that the offenders have been inspired by a recent TV program,
which discussed the high value of meteorite pieces on Russia's black market.

The Seimchan meteorite was found in 1967 near the Seimchan gold mine in the
Magadan Region.

The local police authorities are still investigating the case.
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Re: [meteorite-list] Beware of Russians bearing Seimchan

[Darren Garrison]

On Sat, 9 Jun 2007 17:41:39 +0200, you wrote:

If the thieves would have known, that such a piece would cost let's say
3000$ only, then maybe they would thought twice, whether it would be worth
to break into that museum.

Depends on how desperate the people are.  Here in the US, there are people who
risk their lives cutting power lines just for a few dollars worth of copper to
sell.
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[meteorite-list] Beware of the two kinds of 'Moss'-material...

[Bjorn Sorheim]

Hello List,
I think the buyers of the 'Moss'-meteorite should be aware of the
fact that there are two kinds of material coming from the fall in
Moss, Norway:

1) The freshest is the material that was not affected by the heavy rains
from about the 30th of July.
Before this it was all dry (and the farmers complained it was the
driest summer in many decades). I was there myself in Moss only in
the dry period.
As you may know, only me and Mazur and another finder collected our material
on the 19th, 23rd (and 24th). Se my erlier posting:
http://six.pairlist.net/pipermail/meteorite-list/2006-August/186289.html
(E.Twelker will also have this same material in some time - see his posts.)
This is well before the rains started.
This is also the only material from the biggest piece found.

2) The rest of the material that is available has been collected well after
 the rains started.

One world class american meteorite classifier has seen both materials and
has commented that the 'after the rains material' is clearly more oxidized.
So to get the only existing original pristine material the only source is 
Mazur,

myself (and later Twelker).

Be aware also that this material can be a new group of carbonaceous
meteorite as it contains small white CAIs, isolated olivine grains, but do 
not look

quite like other COs. This might make 'Moss' the type specimen of
a new group with one member? So, maybe the price is not very high
for this material...

Contact me off the list for price/weight and order information.
(Tomorrow I will also have a page for this at:
http://home.online.no/~bsoerhei/astro/meteor/060714/moss.html )

Best wishes,
Bjørn Sørheim


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RE: [meteorite-list] Beware of the two kinds of 'Moss'-material...

[Michael Farmer]

WOW, now where have I heard this before, the old my material is better than
his material because his was rained on spiel! I went through this with
Bensour, Thuathe, and Benguerir, now it seems with Moss. 
My meteorite was found on Sunday, July 30th. As you yourself right Bjorn,
the heavy rains started AFTER July 30th. Can you please them tell us how
something that started AFTER I picked up my pieces would affect my pieces? 
Is Norway some kind of time-travel country, where events that occur after
something can affect the past? 
Theses pieces are about as pristine as they can be. There was a sprinkle or
two in the area the day before, but it was barely enough to wet the car
glass.
If you want to wait to buy some material that may or may now show up, be my
guest. Just don’t buy into the BS as seems to the norm with all new falls
now.
Michael Farmer

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Bjorn
Sorheim
Sent: Wednesday, August 16, 2006 1:54 PM
To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
Subject: [meteorite-list] Beware of the two kinds of 'Moss'-material...


Hello List,
I think the buyers of the 'Moss'-meteorite should be aware of the
fact that there are two kinds of material coming from the fall in
Moss, Norway:

1) The freshest is the material that was not affected by the heavy rains
from about the 30th of July.
Before this it was all dry (and the farmers complained it was the
driest summer in many decades). I was there myself in Moss only in
the dry period.
As you may know, only me and Mazur and another finder collected our material
on the 19th, 23rd (and 24th). Se my erlier posting:
http://six.pairlist.net/pipermail/meteorite-list/2006-August/186289.html
(E.Twelker will also have this same material in some time - see his posts.)
This is well before the rains started.
This is also the only material from the biggest piece found.

2) The rest of the material that is available has been collected well after
  the rains started.

One world class american meteorite classifier has seen both materials and
has commented that the 'after the rains material' is clearly more oxidized.
So to get the only existing original pristine material the only source is 
Mazur,
myself (and later Twelker).

Be aware also that this material can be a new group of carbonaceous
meteorite as it contains small white CAIs, isolated olivine grains, but do 
not look
quite like other COs. This might make 'Moss' the type specimen of
a new group with one member? So, maybe the price is not very high
for this material...

Contact me off the list for price/weight and order information.
(Tomorrow I will also have a page for this at:
http://home.online.no/~bsoerhei/astro/meteor/060714/moss.html )

Best wishes,
Bjørn Sørheim


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Re: [meteorite-list] Beware of meteorite hunters

[Adam Hupe]

Bill,

I legal terms, a meteorite is a rock in the most general sense.  Now, mind
your own business and don't bother me with your foul attitude.  Why don't
you go away, you do not contribute anything?

Go away, scoot, move along!





- Original Message - 
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Adam Hupe [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
Sent: Sunday, July 09, 2006 11:42 PM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Beware of meteorite hunters


 You still haven't answered the man's question. Surely he knows more about
procedure in Oman than you. Why should the Omani's cooperate with you? You
are unnecessary. I don't see you sharing resources and strewnfield data with
the general public here and in Oman you don't even qualify as a member.

 Bill

  -- Original message --
 From: Adam Hupe [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Look at this interesting article that our friend Ali al Kathiri is
involved
  with:
 
  Beware of meteorite hunters:
  http://www.newsbriefsoman.info/index.php?itemid=35
 
  This is the kind of rhetoric that causes countries to leave meteorites
  off-limits to hunting instead of promoting a spirit of cooperation!
 
  Regards,
 
  Adam
 
 
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Re: [meteorite-list] Beware of meteorite hunters

[stan .]

I legal terms, a meteorite is a rock in the most general sense.


Adam,
Export documents typically require SPECIFIC itimization, not 
generalizations. Try to export a bunch of plutonium described as 'lump of 
metal' and see how far it gets you. diamonds, fossils, and some antiquities 
could too be described as 'rocks' but I'm sure you would agree that it isnt 
an intellectually honest description for such items.


Even if you think generalization isnt an issue, IF the translation this guy 
provided is true then listing the 'rocks' as having no value is pretty hard 
to defend when just 0.13% of that 150kg has a 'special 20% off sale price' 
of $178358.00


Now you might be thinking that this is an attempt by me to goad you into a 
fight given our online history on the list. Quite the contrary. I'd like to 
see you adresse this AlKathiri's point directly instead of just questioning 
his intentions.


does it matter if one has export documentation for 'rocks' of this era taken 
out of oman? were there any laws on the books at the time these meteorites 
were taken out of oman that would prohibit such exportation?


As far as I know the answer to both these questions is a most resounding NO. 
from what i have been able to dig up foriegn commerical activity in oman 
requires a permit, but lack of one doesnt mean meteorites without an export 
permit were removed illegaly.


I personally feel that guys who are trying to 'protect' meteroites from 
commerical intrests are doing the greatest disservice to both collectors AND 
science that can possibly be done. Look at all of the meteorites that 
science has gotten to examine as a direct result of the commerical side of 
meteorites. Not only do meteorite hunters/dealers go out and find this 
material type specimins are provided at no cost to the researchers and in 
some cases labs actually charge a small fee to look at the material meaning 
they get cash revenue AND free samples to study. what possibly could be a 
better deal than that? As Martin Altman is fond to point out - look at the 
huge expense of the antartic meteorite recovery effort, and compare that to 
all of the free material that science has had from commerical sources. seems 
like a no brainer to me.


given the fact that it seems inarguable that the current status quo works, I 
say it's the duty of everyone involved in this hobby to correct any public 
misconceptions before politicians start pushing for campos to be 
repatirated.



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Re: [meteorite-list] Beware of meteorite hunters

[Adam Hupe]

Dear List,

I do not understand why Ali al Kathiri is commenting on something he is not
directly involved with.  This permit was issued before Royal Decree No.
27/2003, which apparently prohibits the mining of rocks without a permit.
He seems to think it is ok to include meteorites under rocks when quoting
this decree but when it comes to a permit not issued to somebody he is not
involved with, it must specifically state meteorite.  I agree that a
meteorite is a rock and using the same semantics, most would agree that
meteorites are covered under the removal of rocks.  In legal terms it is
best to use general terms that are far more reaching than being too
specific. It is also a great idea to leave documents short and to the point.
The more complicated an agreement is, the more loopholes that later can be
exploited.  There can be many interpretations so the term rock was used to
cover mineral combinations of any sort including meteorites.  This is not
misleading, rather a good move in order to cover everything at a time when
it was not necessary.  It also shows honesty on the searchers' part by
entering the country stating their actual activities.

Meteorites have very little or no commercial value until studied so these
rocks were unconditionally released under the permit in question.  Once
they left Oman, no claim exists.  We never asserted that we obtained this
permit first-hand but were very careful about its existence since there now
may be laws on the books.  These laws do not date to the time of these
recoveries but steps were taken at that time to insure full disclosure.  The
country was entered on good faith or these documents would not exist at a
time when they were not required if somebody where trying to be misleading.

If new laws that specifically cover meteorites exist, it would do the world
some good if they were translated by a non-biased party and made public.
This is where I feel, Ali, that you are derelict in your duties as an agent
of Oman.  Instead you comment on rocks that were legally removed from Oman
with permission. These documents are real not a fabrication, as you seem to
imply.

Here is a direct quote from an official article on the subject:

The mining law issued by Royal Decree No. 27/2003 prohibited the practice
of all rock and mineral mining and exploratory activities and trading in the
same without obtaining permissions from the Directorate-General of
Minerals.

I wouldn't call picking up a meteorite mining but trying to pigeonhole this
law for meteorites, they must be called rocks and this is what the permit
covers.

Please clarify any new laws for the rest of us.

Adam



- Original Message - 
From: stan . [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
Sent: Monday, July 10, 2006 1:59 AM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Beware of meteorite hunters



 I legal terms, a meteorite is a rock in the most general sense.

 Adam,
 Export documents typically require SPECIFIC itimization, not
 generalizations. Try to export a bunch of plutonium described as 'lump of
 metal' and see how far it gets you. diamonds, fossils, and some
antiquities
 could too be described as 'rocks' but I'm sure you would agree that it
isnt
 an intellectually honest description for such items.

 Even if you think generalization isnt an issue, IF the translation this
guy
 provided is true then listing the 'rocks' as having no value is pretty
hard
 to defend when just 0.13% of that 150kg has a 'special 20% off sale price'
 of $178358.00

 Now you might be thinking that this is an attempt by me to goad you into a
 fight given our online history on the list. Quite the contrary. I'd like
to
 see you adresse this AlKathiri's point directly instead of just
questioning
 his intentions.

 does it matter if one has export documentation for 'rocks' of this era
taken
 out of oman? were there any laws on the books at the time these meteorites
 were taken out of oman that would prohibit such exportation?

 As far as I know the answer to both these questions is a most resounding
NO.
 from what i have been able to dig up foriegn commerical activity in oman
 requires a permit, but lack of one doesnt mean meteorites without an
export
 permit were removed illegaly.

 I personally feel that guys who are trying to 'protect' meteroites from
 commerical intrests are doing the greatest disservice to both collectors
AND
 science that can possibly be done. Look at all of the meteorites that
 science has gotten to examine as a direct result of the commerical side of
 meteorites. Not only do meteorite hunters/dealers go out and find this
 material type specimins are provided at no cost to the researchers and in
 some cases labs actually charge a small fee to look at the material
meaning
 they get cash revenue AND free samples to study. what possibly could be a
 better deal than that? As Martin Altman is fond to point out - look at the
 huge expense of the antartic meteorite recovery effort

Re: [meteorite-list] Beware of meteorite hunters

[stan .]

Meteorites have very little or no commercial value until studied so these


I dont know how much money you guys have spent on unclassified rocks, but 
given what I have sent to morroco as a minor player I'd have to beg to 
differ with you on that one.



rocks were unconditionally released under the permit in question.The 
mining law issued by Royal Decree No. 27/2003 prohibited the practice
of all rock and mineral mining and exploratory activities and trading in 
the

same without obtaining permissions from the Directorate-General of
Minerals.


well this is pretty straight foward. It means the practice of all rock and 
mineral mining and exploratory activities and trading in the same without 
obtaining permissions from the Directorate-General of Minerals is illegal. 
but that says NOTHING about the exportation of the material. So finding the 
rocks is against the law, but their removal from the country is not. meaning 
there should be no problems with private ownership of ANY material from 
oman. pre 2003 or rocks found yesterday - it shouldnt matter.



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AW: [meteorite-list] Beware of meteorite hunters

[Martin Altmann]

Again that discussion,
and again I feel compelled to excrete my 2 cents, as I know those finders
from that team.

First there is no room for any suspicion, nor does it lead to any intuition
to point with the finger to others, no matter from which direction.

The team, which recovered the stones, acted in proper style and in an
exemplary way. They did, where about no other team was caring, they went
with their finds to the authorities and physically submitted the stones
there and asked, whether they would be allowed to export them.
To presume, that they were telling misleading information to the officials
is absurd, there can't be any straighter information than to show the stones
to the officials, who have to decide, whether they are o.k. for export or
not.
As you saw, they issued that document with header and stamp, which states
that the team member mentioned in brackets is allowed to take with him 150kg
of those rocks and that document served to the purpose, if the members would
have been asked, when they left Oman, whether they have a permit to take the
stuff with them. I guess, another definition of export permit does not
exist. In the case of the most interesting stones, the colourful
IMB-lunaites is to say, that at that point in Oman, it was absolutely not
evident, that they were lunaites at all. Even later the institute, which
should classify them, refused initially to analyze them, because they
thought, that they are terrestrial rocks.
But anyway, the Omani officials could have refused at any moment to issue
the permit and they had the stones in their hands to do so.
To calm Mr.Ali, the Hupes certainly have a translation of the paper,
and not only the name of the exporter, but also the lines in Arabic letters
are written by hand. Obviously this was at those times the usual way to
issue such export permits.
It might be, that Mr.Ali isn't content with that procedure, but then he
should have scold the Ministry of Commerce and Industry that they allowed
the export of the stones and not the sellers of that material and certainly
not the finders, who took the efforts to legally export those stones, who
did so at those times, where no team else, only the Suisse one, cared for
any possible restrictions.
At the ministry nobody took any agreement as a condition for the official
export, nor did they issue other papers or a paper in a different form.
Maybe nowadays there are different regulations in force, then in the
beginning of 2003 obviously not (perhaps here the confusion originates, that
the quoted mining law of 2003 wasn't in force yet?).
So I think we can all calm, and that Mr.Ali wasn't aware, that not only to
the Suisse teams export permits were issued, but to others too, is very
understandable, because as far as I know, nobody else than those German
teams ever asked for a permit.
Btw it was not a single case, they obtained on 2 tours more such permits,
but unfortunately, because they did saw any importance in those sheets,
after they were home - and those were the times, where there weren't
discussions about the legal status of the Oman finds raging -
they threw them in the dustbin.
At least that one survived.

Thus we learned, that it is always helful first to check the facts, than to
have superfluous discussions, to dwell on speculations or, how it
unfortunately happens sometimes, to end in personal attacks.

Peace on Earth,
Martin


-Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
Von: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Im Auftrag von Adam
Hupe
Gesendet: Montag, 10. Juli 2006 10:20
An: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] Beware of meteorite hunters

Bill,

I legal terms, a meteorite is a rock in the most general sense.  Now, mind
your own business and don't bother me with your foul attitude.  Why don't
you go away, you do not contribute anything?

Go away, scoot, move along!





- Original Message - 
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Adam Hupe [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
Sent: Sunday, July 09, 2006 11:42 PM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Beware of meteorite hunters


 You still haven't answered the man's question. Surely he knows more about
procedure in Oman than you. Why should the Omani's cooperate with you? You
are unnecessary. I don't see you sharing resources and strewnfield data with
the general public here and in Oman you don't even qualify as a member.

 Bill

  -- Original message --
 From: Adam Hupe [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Look at this interesting article that our friend Ali al Kathiri is
involved
  with:
 
  Beware of meteorite hunters:
  http://www.newsbriefsoman.info/index.php?itemid=35
 
  This is the kind of rhetoric that causes countries to leave meteorites
  off-limits to hunting instead of promoting a spirit of cooperation!
 
  Regards,
 
  Adam
 
 
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[meteorite-list] Beware of meteorite hunters

[Adam Hupe]

Look at this interesting article that our friend Ali al Kathiri is involved
with:

Beware of meteorite hunters:
http://www.newsbriefsoman.info/index.php?itemid=35

This is the kind of rhetoric that causes countries to leave meteorites
off-limits to hunting instead of promoting a spirit of cooperation!

Regards,

Adam


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[meteorite-list] Beware the powerful magnetic field!

[Darren Garrison]

http://english.ohmynews.com/articleview/article_view.asp?no=301623rel_no=1

Killer Asteroid Headed Towards Earth 
Giant rock rapidly approaching, but collision unlikely 

Starry-eyed humans, brace yourself and fasten your seatbelts. The planet Earth
is about to cross paths with a massive asteroid on July 3. 

The asteroid, named 2004XP14, measuring a half-mile in diameter, more or less,
is hurtling through the darkness of space toward our planet. Even though the
chances of it hitting Earth are nil, by cosmic standards, the asteroid will pass
alarmingly close to our beloved blue orb next week. At its closest approach to
Earth, the asteroid will brush past at almost the same distance of the moon from
our planet.

Too small to be considered as planets, asteroids are said to be metallic and
rocky objects that revolve around the sun. Sometimes called minor planets, they
come in various sizes, from the mammoth Ceres, measuring about 1,000 kilometers
in diameter, to the tiniest, pebble-sized fragments. Sixteen of these asteroids
are known to have a diameter of 240 kilometers or more and they are scattered
inside the Earth's orbit and beyond Saturn's. The majority of asteroids are
herded within the main belt between Mars and Jupiter. Some of these have become
wayward and unfortunately cross Earth's path. Millions of years ago, the Earth
had been hit several times by some of the space rocks. One notable planetary
scar, the well-preserved Barringer meteor crater is located in Winslow, Arizona.

The 2004XP14 belongs to a class of asteroids called Apollo, which have
Earth-crossing orbits. This classification of Apollo asteroids came to be called
as such because the first one to be discovered was given the name 1862 Apollo.
About 1,989 of these threatening asteroids are known to wander in the Solar
System.

The exact size of the asteroid 2004XP14 is not yet known. To try to ascertain
its true mass, astronomers are planning to use a space radar and ping it with
the sophisticated instruments. By analyzing the high frequency radio waves that
will reflect from the surface of the fast-approaching asteroid, astronomers will
have a chance to measure its size and shape. 

Based on its brightness, the asteroid's diameter is approximately 1,345 to 3,018
feet, or 410 to 920 meters. If ever the asteroid gets too close and is captured
by the Earth's powerful magnetic field, human civilization might shrink back to
the stone-age.

Discovered by the Lincoln Laboratory Near Earth Asteroid Research (LINEAR) on
Dec. 10, 2004, XP14 is under close watch by a concerned team of astronomers
because of the possibility that this asteroid might impact with Earth during
this century, even though a thorough study and analysis of its course and orbit
concluded that humanity is not yet in danger.

Visually spotting the 2004XP14 will be quite hard. But those with a good
telescope and ample experience in tracking heavenly objects might be lucky to
catch a glimpse of the streaking object as it brushes past Earth's orbit.

On April 13, 2029, another asteroid is scheduled to make a close call with
Earth, and this can be seen with the naked eye by observers in Asia and North
Africa. Astronomers said that Asteroid 99942 Apophis, estimated to be about
1,000 or 300 meters wide, would come very close at about 20,000 miles from the
surface of the planet. Close-passing asteroids like it come at least once in
1,500 years.

Scientists are anticipating the close fly-by with excitement for a unique
opportunity and uneasy apprehension. 

Researchers are hoping to take advantage of Apophis' close approach in order to
gain more information on how asteroids are formed and to gain some insight on
the seismic activity inside the space rock.

Tidal forces from the Earth's gravitational pull are going to twist and churn
the core of Apophis as it comes at a very close distance. The forces will deform
the asteroid's exterior. Astronomers are planning to use ground-based radar to
monitor its movements and also use telescopes to record changes in the rock's
surface and rotation. The asteroid was discovered last year and named after a
snakelike Egyptian god of darkness and chaos.

Not much is known about the true origins of asteroids. A theory holds that they
are remnants of a planet that broke up in a massive collision during the
formation of the solar system. One plausible theory suggests that asteroids are
left-over material which failed to form into a planet. 

By examining fragments of space debris that strike the Earth's surface,
scientists are able to get some understanding of these space material that pose
a certain danger to mankind in the future. Asteroids that come on a collision
course with our home planet are called meteioroids. The material that is left
from the fiery entrance through the protective atmosphere is now known as
meteorite. 

Scientists are very interested in asteroids since they are materials of the
early years of the solar system. Gaining a 

[meteorite-list] Beware: Io Dust

[Ron Baalke]

http://science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2004/14sep_jupiterdust.htm

Beware: Io Dust
NASA Science News
September 14, 2004

Jupiter's moon Io is shooting tiny volcanic bullets at passing spacecraft.

September 14, 2004: Jupiter's moon Io is peppered with volcanoes, the
hottest, most active volcanoes in our solar system. Sizzling vents spew
plumes of gas and dust as much as 400 km high. They surge, spit, subside
and surge again, non-stop.

The towering plumes, outlined by graceful arcs of rising and falling ash, 
are eerily beautiful. Their tops jut into space, freezing. Beneath them, 
scientists believe, it snows. Sulfurous flakes crystallize in the 
plume-tops and drift gently down to coat Io's colorful terrain.

High above the gentle snowfall something unexpected happens. At the apex
of the plumes, some of the dust and ash that ought to turn around and
fall ... doesn't. Defying gravity, it keeps going up, not slowing but
accelerating, 2 times, 10 times, hundreds of times faster than a
speeding bullet, away from Io and into deep space.

Passing spacecraft beware: Io is shooting at you.

The Ulysses spacecraft, a joint mission of NASA and the European Space
Agency, made the discovery in 1992 when, approaching Jupiter, it was hit
by a breakneck stream of volcano dust.

What a surprise, recalls Harold Krueger of the Max Planck Institute in
Heidelberg, the principle investigator for Ulysses' dust detector. We
expected to encounter dust, he says. The solar system is littered with
flakes from comets and asteroids. But nothing like this.

The dust came in a tight stream, like water from a garden hose, and it
was moving extraordinarily fast, about 300 km/s (670,000 mph). This
makes it some of the fastest-moving material in the solar system, says
Krueger, second only to the solar wind. Fortunately the dust-bits were
small, similar in size to particles in cigarette smoke, so they didn't
penetrate the ship's hull in spite of their extreme velocity.

At first, no one suspected Io. Ulysses was 100 million kilometers from
Io when the stream blew by, supposedly beyond the reach of volcanic
plumes. Plus, the speed of the dust didn't make sense. Particles emerge
from Io's vents traveling 1 or 2 km/s, not 300 km/s.

Baffled, researchers considered several possibilities: Could Jupiter's
dark rings be responsible? There's plenty of dust there, but how could
rings manufacture fast-moving jets? Comet Shoemaker-Levy 9 was another
suspect. The comet flew so close to Jupiter in 1992 that it was torn
apart. Comets are known to produce streams of dust, but not so fast as
the stream that hit Ulysses.

NASA's Galileo spacecraft eventually solved the puzzle. Like Ulysses,
Galileo was pelted by dust when it approached Jupiter in 1995. Unlike
Ulysses, which merely flew past the giant planet, Galileo settled into
orbit. As data accumulated over a period of years, scientists were able
to correlate volcanic activity with dust events, and they showed,
furthermore, that dust streams were modulated by Io's orbital motion.

The source was definitely Io.

Regarding the extreme velocity of the dust: Jupiter is responsible for
that, explains Krueger.

Jupiter is not only a giant planet, but also a giant magnet, which spins
once every 9 hours and 55 minutes. Spinning magnetic fields produce
electric fields, and the electric fields around Jupiter are intense.
Io-dust, like dust on your computer monitor, is electrically charged, so
Jupiter's electric forces naturally accelerate the grains. 300 km/s is
no problem.

In 2000 when the Cassini spacecraft sailed past Jupiter en route to
Saturn, it too was hit. Cassini's dust detector is more capable than
Ulysses'. In addition to mass, speed, charge and trajectory, it can also
measure elemental composition. Cassini found hints of sulfur, silicon,
sodium and potassium--all signs of volcanic origin.

This raises an interesting possibility, says Krueger. We can analyze
the hot interior of Io from a great distance. There's no need to get
too close to the sizzling vents when you can catch the ash millions of
miles away.

Io dust can even reach Earth, says Krueger, but don't expect a meteor
shower. Bright meteors such as Perseids and Leonids are caused by
sand-sized comet dust. Io dust is much smaller. A typical grain is only
10 billionths of a meter wide. If a bit of it disintegrated in Earth's
atmosphere, you probably wouldn't notice.

End of story? Not quite.

Ulysses visited Jupiter again in early 2004 and once again the craft was
pelted. Io's volcanoes were still at work. But something was wrong: The
dust was shooting in the wrong direction.

Io dust is supposed fly out of Jupiter's equatorial plane, says
Krueger, because that's the way the accelerating electric fields
point. This time Ulysses approached Jupiter's north pole (75 degrees
north latitude to be exact) where no dust should go. Yet the spacecraft
was pelted anyway.

Jupiter, it seems, flings Io-dust in every direction, which is hard to
understand, 

Re: [meteorite-list] Beware drone posts listed as coming from MLBLOOD?

[Michael L Blood]

Hi Ryan  All,
Steve Drummond and several other kind list members contacted
me yesterday saying my posts had a virus attached.
I ran Norton Virus scan and found my computer to be virus free.
I emailed all of them directly and they confirmed my posts were
free of virus.
Here is what is apparently happening:
1) A virus is about that can grab email and then send posts listing
various email addresses it has stolen as the sender. This is, apparently,
called a drone virus. The virus is not actually coming from the listed
sender. 
2) In my case, apparently, one can easily distinguish my posts from
drone posts as MY ACTUAL POSTS are listed as coming from Michale L. Blood
while the DRONE, INFECTED POSTS are being sent with the name, MLBlood.
Sorry for those who were damaged by this, but it was not even
a piggyback virus but one that just steals names and generates posts
off of them. Apparently, it did that off a post I sent to the list, so, it
used my email address (and for a from name, whatever preceded @
in my email address.
Don't open anything from MLBlood as it is a drone post.
Best wishes,  thanks to those who helped solve the mystery, Michael


on 7/8/04 4:41 PM, Ryan Darby at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 A lot of mail is being sent from [EMAIL PROTECTED] I suspect you have
 some sort of virus. They are empty with text attachments.
 
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Re: [meteorite-list] Beware drone posts listed as coming from MLBLOOD?

[David Freeman]

And with circus music, we all receive numberous virus loaded 
emails..any help from the computer guru's?
Dave (virus warning box full) Freeman

Michael L Blood wrote:
Hi Ryan  All,
   Steve Drummond and several other kind list members contacted
me yesterday saying my posts had a virus attached.
   I ran Norton Virus scan and found my computer to be virus free.
   I emailed all of them directly and they confirmed my posts were
free of virus.
   Here is what is apparently happening:
1) A virus is about that can grab email and then send posts listing
various email addresses it has stolen as the sender. This is, apparently,
called a drone virus. The virus is not actually coming from the listed
sender. 
2) In my case, apparently, one can easily distinguish my posts from
drone posts as MY ACTUAL POSTS are listed as coming from Michale L. Blood
while the DRONE, INFECTED POSTS are being sent with the name, MLBlood.
   Sorry for those who were damaged by this, but it was not even
a piggyback virus but one that just steals names and generates posts
off of them. Apparently, it did that off a post I sent to the list, so, it
used my email address (and for a from name, whatever preceded @
in my email address.
   Don't open anything from MLBlood as it is a drone post.
   Best wishes,  thanks to those who helped solve the mystery, Michael
   

on 7/8/04 4:41 PM, Ryan Darby at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
A lot of mail is being sent from [EMAIL PROTECTED] I suspect you have
some sort of virus. They are empty with text attachments.
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RE: [meteorite-list] Beware drone posts listed as coming from MLBLOOD?

[Ryan Darby]

I'm got the IT guru I used to be, playing at project manager now, but
I'll try :

Well saying get weekly updates of a virus checker is too obvious. 

The only one I have is : turn the auto-preview off if you use Outlook.
There are, believe it or not, viruses out there that can infect you when
you open the mail, without you needing to open the attachment. It has
been a few years since they came out and are probably old hat to the
checkers, but just in case. 

Think about getting something like Scotty the Windows Watchdog, which is
just a free monitor to see if things load themselves onto your computer.
Many are not really viruses that will cause harm but still are
considered malicious. They come from many websites, even the more
respectable looking ones. 

If a popup appears while browsing the web, don't push any buttons on it.
Close it by pressing the cross on the top right to kill the window. It
is easy to make the No button mean yes on the popups. 

Make sure your virus checker is actually set to scan all email as you
download it, it might not be. You want it to intercept the messages
before they hit your machine, and not just scan once a week after the
fact. 


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[meteorite-list] Beware, virus being sent on this list

[Tom Randall - KB2SMS]

Just got an email from the meteorite-list that contained the 

 [EMAIL PROTECTED] virus hidden in a file called Disco.zip

Fortunately, I'm running Linux so no problem here but Road runner caught
it anyway and deleted it before sending it to me. 

Keep your eyes open and be careful folks...

The address it came from was [EMAIL PROTECTED]

That's not to say that this person sent it, but he or she could be
infected and not know it. Just be aware.

I hope Art is aware of this.


Regards,

Tom Randall


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[meteorite-list] beware

[Steve Arnold, Chicago!!!]

Hi list.Just beware, SILKARROW  on ebay is selling MEKONG iron meteorites
again.I noticed he put up 4 of them today.Also I have on going auctions my
self.

  steve arnold

=
Steve R.Arnold, Chicago, IL, 60120 
I. M. C. A. MEMBER #6728 
Illinois Meteorites 
website url http://stormbringer60120.tripod.com
http://members.ebay.com/aboutme/illinoismeteoites/
 


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