Re: Why isn't src included with OpenBSD? (documentation)

2020-05-20 Thread Theo de Raadt
No. Because what you say isn't true at all. That's limiting spin. Chris Bennett wrote: > I keep seeing people not getting the idea that OpenBSD has more of a > philosophy of users needing to put out their own special efforts at > learning, vs. other OS's. > > Do you think that mentioning

Re: Why isn't src included with OpenBSD? (documentation)

2020-05-20 Thread Chris Bennett
I keep seeing people not getting the idea that OpenBSD has more of a philosophy of users needing to put out their own special efforts at learning, vs. other OS's. Do you think that mentioning this on the homepage/FAQ would be useful? It took me quite a while to understand that myself. Realizing

Re: Why isn't src included with OpenBSD? (documentation)

2020-05-20 Thread Ingo Schwarze
Hi Andras, Andras Farkas wrote on Tue, May 19, 2020 at 05:26:24PM -0400: > On Mon, May 18, 2020 at 2:59 PM Ingo Schwarze wrote: >> Can somebody work through the tutorial and confirm that everything >> still works as described with our -current vi(1)? It is too >> wordy for my personal taste,

Re: Why isn't src included with OpenBSD? (documentation)

2020-05-20 Thread Sebastian Benoit
Andras Farkas(deepbluemist...@gmail.com) on 2020.05.18 13:07:36 -0400: > Not sure whether to post this on misc@ or tech@, so trying misc@ first: > > Why isn't src included on OpenBSD, perhaps as an install fileset? > Lots of documentation is unavailable outside of the /usr/src tree. [...] > This

Re: Why isn't src included with OpenBSD? (documentation)

2020-05-19 Thread Andras Farkas
First of all, I'd like to thank everyone who replied to me! Thank you for explaining things. On Mon, May 18, 2020 at 2:59 PM Ingo Schwarze wrote: > Andras Farkas wrote on Mon, May 18, 2020 at 01:07:36PM -0400: > > For example, I first learnt vi a few years ago, back > > when I was first learning

Re: Why isn't src included with OpenBSD? (documentation)

2020-05-19 Thread Ottavio Caruso
On Tue, 19 May 2020 at 13:31, Marc Espie wrote: > > On Mon, May 18, 2020 at 08:43:19PM +0100, Ottavio Caruso wrote: > > Some of these documents have a proprietary licence attached to it and > > I believe it's due to the 1994 AT settlement. There are third party > > collections (like this:

Re: Why isn't src included with OpenBSD? (documentation)

2020-05-19 Thread Mihai Popescu
> Proposed release poster design: > Puffy with puffed out cheeks & paper sticking out of his mouth. > Headline: "Man pages are all you need to live!" > Alternate headlines: > "We *can* live on man pages alone!" I think it's better to clarify who this "we" is/are. Not _all_ needed info for install

Re: Why isn't src included with OpenBSD? (documentation)

2020-05-19 Thread Marc Espie
On Mon, May 18, 2020 at 08:43:19PM +0100, Ottavio Caruso wrote: > Some of these documents have a proprietary licence attached to it and > I believe it's due to the 1994 AT settlement. There are third party > collections (like this: https://github.com/sergev/4.4BSD-Lite2) but > I'm not sure if one

Re: Why isn't src included with OpenBSD? (documentation)

2020-05-18 Thread Ottavio Caruso
On Mon, 18 May 2020 at 18:07, Andras Farkas wrote: > > Not sure whether to post this on misc@ or tech@, so trying misc@ first: > > Why isn't src included on OpenBSD, perhaps as an install fileset? > Lots of documentation is unavailable outside of the /usr/src tree. > > For example, today I had a

Re: Why isn't src included with OpenBSD? (documentation)

2020-05-18 Thread Christopher Turkel
On Monday, May 18, 2020, Frank Beuth wrote: > On Mon, May 18, 2020 at 11:10:59AM -0600, Theo de Raadt wrote: > >> People too young to have grown up with Unix need this sort of >>> documentation. We can't live on man pages alone. >>> >> >> YES WE CAN. >> > > Proposed release poster design: > >

Re: Why isn't src included with OpenBSD? (documentation)

2020-05-18 Thread Frank Beuth
On Mon, May 18, 2020 at 11:10:59AM -0600, Theo de Raadt wrote: People too young to have grown up with Unix need this sort of documentation. We can't live on man pages alone. YES WE CAN. Proposed release poster design: Puffy with puffed out cheeks & paper sticking out of his mouth.

Re: Why isn't src included with OpenBSD? (documentation)

2020-05-18 Thread Marc Espie
On Mon, May 18, 2020 at 01:07:36PM -0400, Andras Farkas wrote: > I saw in fsck_ffs.8 > https://man.openbsd.org/fsck_ffs.8 > that the answers could be found in > Fsck_ffs - The UNIX File System Check Program > This is perfectly fine. Not every piece of information belongs in a > man page. Man

Re: Why isn't src included with OpenBSD? (documentation)

2020-05-18 Thread Ingo Schwarze
Hi Andras, Andras Farkas wrote on Mon, May 18, 2020 at 01:07:36PM -0400: > Lots of documentation is unavailable outside of the /usr/src tree. It isn't "lots", it's only a tiny number of documents. > that the answers could be found in > Fsck_ffs - The UNIX File System Check Program > This is

Re: Why isn't src included with OpenBSD? (documentation)

2020-05-18 Thread Theo de Raadt
Andras Farkas wrote: > Not sure whether to post this on misc@ or tech@, so trying misc@ first: > > Why isn't src included on OpenBSD, perhaps as an install fileset? Because then we'd need to adjust the disk-layout expectations on every architecture, and consider and match a variety of build

Why isn't src included with OpenBSD? (documentation)

2020-05-18 Thread Andras Farkas
Not sure whether to post this on misc@ or tech@, so trying misc@ first: Why isn't src included on OpenBSD, perhaps as an install fileset? Lots of documentation is unavailable outside of the /usr/src tree. For example, today I had a server mishap which had me using fsck_ffs after. I needed to