Re: S/SA/SAPER/relative-0.02.tar.gz (feature request)

2007-10-09 Thread Sébastien Aperghis-Tramoni 

Eric Wilhelm wrote:


# from Sébastien Aperghis-Tramoni
# on Monday 08 October 2007 16:02:


 use relative;
 my $Customer = import relative qw(Report Customer);


This changes the require() on Foo::Report and Foo::Customer to run- 
time

though, right?


Right, but I'd say that for writing object-oriented code, there isn't  
such a need to do things at compile time, is it?



--
Sébastien Aperghis-Tramoni

Close the world, txEn eht nepO.

Re: S/SA/SAPER/relative-0.02.tar.gz (feature request)

2007-10-09 Thread Ovid 
--- Sébastien Aperghis-Tramoni [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Hmm.. As is, relative.pm already allows you to do that (thanks to Ken
 Williams' suggestion):
 
  package My::Enterprise::Framework;
  use relative;
  my $Customer = import relative qw(Report Customer);
  my $customer = $Customer-new($id);
 
 That is, import returns the full names of the successfully loaded  
 modules in list context, or the last one in scalar context. Is this  
 sufficient or did I misunderstand you?

Ah, I didn't notice that.  I think that would be fine.  The only caveat
being that this is lexically scoped, but I don't *think* there is
problem there.

Thanks for a nice module!

Cheers,
Ovid

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Re: S/SA/SAPER/relative-0.02.tar.gz (feature request)

2007-10-09 Thread Ovid 
--- A. Pagaltzis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 * Eric Wilhelm [EMAIL PROTECTED] [2007-10-09 01:55]:
  This changes the require() on Foo::Report and Foo::Customer to
  run-time though, right?
 
 use Devel::BeginLift qw( require );

Cute trick, but I wondered if that would globally break require.

  #!/usr/bin/perl -l

  use strict;
  use warnings;

  use Devel::BeginLift qw(require);
  require Data::Dumper;
  BEGIN {
  no warnings 'once';
  print $Data::Dumper::Indent;
  }

Seems to have no impact on require at all.  I suspect that's because
it's not a subroutine.

Cheers,
Ovid

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Re: S/SA/SAPER/relative-0.02.tar.gz (feature request)

2007-10-09 Thread Jonathan Rockway 
Ovid wrote:
 I do get tired of writing code like that (it happens a lot in test
 suites when I have use_ok $CLASS in a BEGIN block).
   


OT, but 'ok.pm' is quite nice:

   use Test::More tests = 1;
   use ok 'My::Module'; # test runs at compile time

Regards,
Jonathan Rockway




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Re: S/SA/SAPER/relative-0.02.tar.gz (feature request)

2007-10-09 Thread Eric Wilhelm 
# from A. Pagaltzis
# on Monday 08 October 2007 22:50:

* Eric Wilhelm [EMAIL PROTECTED] [2007-10-09 01:55]:
 This changes the require() on Foo::Report and Foo::Customer to
 run-time though, right?

    use Devel::BeginLift qw( require );

The import() method is calling require at run-time.  That's going to 
take some heavy lifting ;-)

--Eric
-- 
Consumers want choice, consumers want openness.
--Rob Glaser
---
http://scratchcomputing.com
---

(OT) Re: S/SA/SAPER/relative-0.02.tar.gz (feature request)

2007-10-09 Thread Ovid 
--- Jonathan Rockway [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 OT, but 'ok.pm' is quite nice:
 
use Test::More tests = 1;
use ok 'My::Module'; # test runs at compile time

Oh, I really like that, but it still causes an issue for me.  You see,
a lot of what I do is stuff like this:

  my $CLASS;
  BEGIN {
  $CLASS = 'Customer';
  use_ok $CLASS or die;
  }

  can_ok $CLASS, 'new';
  ok my $cust = $CLASS-new, '... and we can call it';
  isa_ok $cust, $CLASS, '... and the object it returns';

This means that if I need to refactor classes to better namespaces, I
merely change the $CLASS = line.  With the lovely ok.pm module, I
still have the following clunky construct:

  my $CLASS;
  BEGIN {
  $CLASS = 'Customer';
  }
  use ok $CLASS or die;

  can_ok $CLASS, 'new';
  ok my $cust = $CLASS-new, '... and we can call it';
  isa_ok $cust, $CLASS, '... and the object it returns';

Those BEGIN blocks really annoy the hell out of me at times :(

Cheers,
Ovid

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Re: S/SA/SAPER/relative-0.02.tar.gz (feature request)

2007-10-09 Thread Eric Wilhelm 
# from Sébastien Aperghis-Tramoni
# on Tuesday 09 October 2007 00:07:

 This changes the require() on Foo::Report and Foo::Customer to run-
 time though, right?

Right, but I'd say that for writing object-oriented code, there isn't
   such a need to do things at compile time, is it?

Probably not, but they're still different, and thus could lead to 
head-scratching.

If the shorthand feature just installed a subroutine (what aliased 
does), there would be no difference.

  use relative 'Foo';
  Foo-new;

is:

  BEGIN {
require relative;
relative-import('Foo');
  }
  Foo-new;

Where the scalar usage is like:

  BEGIN {
require relative;
  }
  my $Foo = relative-import('Foo');
  $Foo-new;

You can use scalars in this way (via $_[2] = 'Bar::Foo'), but they have 
to be declared before the use line.

  my $Foo;
  use relative Foo = $Foo;
  $Foo-new;

So, I'm inclined to think that the sub is the way to go, though it would 
be nice if they went away at runtime (in order to not be accidental 
methods.)  5.10 and $^H anyone?

--Eric
-- 
Time flies like an arrow, but fruit flies like a banana.
--Groucho Marx
---
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---

Re: S/SA/SAPER/relative-0.02.tar.gz (feature request)

2007-10-09 Thread A. Pagaltzis 
* Eric Wilhelm [EMAIL PROTECTED] [2007-10-09 09:50]:
 The import() method is calling require at run-time.  That's
 going to take some heavy lifting ;-)

Err, I meant `qw( import )`.

Regards,
-- 
Aristotle Pagaltzis // http://plasmasturm.org/

Re: S/SA/SAPER/relative-0.02.tar.gz (feature request)

2007-10-09 Thread A. Pagaltzis 
* Ovid [EMAIL PROTECTED] [2007-10-09 09:40]:
 --- A. Pagaltzis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  * Eric Wilhelm [EMAIL PROTECTED] [2007-10-09 01:55]:
   This changes the require() on Foo::Report and Foo::Customer
   to run-time though, right?
  
  use Devel::BeginLift qw( require );
 
 Cute trick, but I wondered if that would globally break
 require.

Wrong trick, I meant to begin-lift `import`, not `require`, ugh.

Regards,
-- 
Aristotle Pagaltzis // http://plasmasturm.org/

Re: (OT) Re: S/SA/SAPER/relative-0.02.tar.gz (feature request)

2007-10-09 Thread Smylers 
Ovid writes:

 With the lovely ok.pm module, I still have the following clunky
 construct:
 
   my $CLASS;
   BEGIN {
   $CLASS = 'Customer';
   }
   use ok $CLASS or die;
 
   can_ok $CLASS, 'new';
   ok my $cust = $CLASS-new, '... and we can call it';
   isa_ok $cust, $CLASS, '... and the object it returns';
 
 Those BEGIN blocks really annoy the hell out of me at times :(

Well don't have them then -- put the assignment in the use statement,
which is run at BEGIN time anyway:

  use Test::More tests = 1;
  my $CLASS;
  use ok $CLASS = 'DateTime';

Smylers

Re: (OT) Re: S/SA/SAPER/relative-0.02.tar.gz (feature request)

2007-10-09 Thread A. Pagaltzis 
* Smylers [EMAIL PROTECTED] [2007-10-09 10:25]:
 Well don't have them then -- put the assignment in the use
 statement, which is run at BEGIN time anyway:
 
   use Test::More tests = 1;
   my $CLASS;
   use ok $CLASS = 'DateTime';

Sneaky! I like.
-- 
*AUTOLOAD=*_;sub _{s/(.*)::(.*)/print$2,(,$\/, )[defined wantarray]/e;$1}
Just-another-Perl-hack;
#Aristotle

Re: S/SA/SAPER/relative-0.02.tar.gz (feature request)

2007-10-09 Thread Sébastien Aperghis-Tramoni 
Ovid wrote:

 --- Sébastien Aperghis-Tramoni [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

  Eric Wilhelm wrote:
use relative;
my $Customer = import relative qw(Report Customer);
  
   This changes the require() on Foo::Report and Foo::Customer to run-
   time though, right?
 
  Right, but I'd say that for writing object-oriented code, there isn't
  such a need to do things at compile time, is it?

 You know, I hadn't considered the runtime/compile-time issue when I
 first saw this.  Eric's right that this does change the semantics.  I
 suppose one could wrap it in a BEGIN block, but that makes it worse:

   use relative;
   my ( $Report, $Customer );
   BEGIN {
   ( $Report, $Customer ) = import relative qw(Report Customer);
   }

 I do get tired of writing code like that (it happens a lot in test
 suites when I have use_ok $CLASS in a BEGIN block).

 I do agree that with OO modules that compile-time should be less of an
 issue, but it's not universally the case.  Still, I think the import
 relative is probably enough for me.

To be honest, I'm not really convinced because I don't see why so much
things should happen at compile-time, but I'll add the -aliased option
in the next release.


-- 
Sébastien Aperghis-Tramoni

Close the world, txEn eht nepO.

Re: S/SA/SAPER/relative-0.02.tar.gz (feature request)

2007-10-08 Thread Ovid 
--- Sébastien Aperghis-Tramoni [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Hello,
 
 The version 0.02 of relative.pm is now available on the CPAN.
 Thanks to everybody who suggested improvements.
 (And it still works on Perl 5.004 :-)

I like the idea of this module.  Lots of people like the idea of
'aliased'.  Would it be worth combining the two?

  use My::Enterprise::Framework;
  use relative -aliased = qw(Customer Report);

  # instead of:
  # my $customer = My::Enterprise::Framework::Customer-new($id);
  # use:
  my $customer = Customer-new($id);

http://search.cpan.org/dist/aliased/

Cheers,
Ovid

--
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Re: S/SA/SAPER/relative-0.02.tar.gz (feature request)

2007-10-08 Thread Adrian Howard 


On 8 Oct 2007, at 11:28, Ovid wrote:
[snip]

I like the idea of this module.  Lots of people like the idea of
'aliased'.  Would it be worth combining the two?

  use My::Enterprise::Framework;
  use relative -aliased = qw(Customer Report);

  # instead of:
  # my $customer = My::Enterprise::Framework::Customer-new($id);
  # use:
  my $customer = Customer-new($id);

http://search.cpan.org/dist/aliased/


++ I like.

Adrian

Re: S/SA/SAPER/relative-0.02.tar.gz (feature request)

2007-10-08 Thread Sébastien Aperghis-Tramoni 

Ovid wrote:


I like the idea of this module.  Lots of people like the idea of
'aliased'.  Would it be worth combining the two?

  use My::Enterprise::Framework;
  use relative -aliased = qw(Customer Report);

  # instead of:
  # my $customer = My::Enterprise::Framework::Customer-new($id);
  # use:
  my $customer = Customer-new($id);


Hmm.. As is, relative.pm already allows you to do that (thanks to Ken  
Williams' suggestion):


package My::Enterprise::Framework;
use relative;
my $Customer = import relative qw(Report Customer);
my $customer = $Customer-new($id);

That is, import returns the full names of the successfully loaded  
modules in list context, or the last one in scalar context. Is this  
sufficient or did I misunderstand you?



--
Sébastien Aperghis-Tramoni

Close the world, txEn eht nepO.

Re: S/SA/SAPER/relative-0.02.tar.gz (feature request)

2007-10-08 Thread Eric Wilhelm 
# from Sébastien Aperghis-Tramoni
# on Monday 08 October 2007 16:02:

     use relative;
     my $Customer = import relative qw(Report Customer);

This changes the require() on Foo::Report and Foo::Customer to run-time 
though, right?

If only we had userland pragmas, you could just create functions Report 
and Customer and delete them in unimport().

  use relative qw(Report Customer);
  ...
  my $c = Customer-new();
  my $r = Report-new()
  ...
  no relative;

--Eric
-- 
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they had all the money, and by the intelligentsia, because of their
tendency to spend it on lawn ornaments.
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Re: S/SA/SAPER/relative-0.02.tar.gz (feature request)

2007-10-08 Thread A. Pagaltzis 
* Eric Wilhelm [EMAIL PROTECTED] [2007-10-09 01:55]:
 This changes the require() on Foo::Report and Foo::Customer to
 run-time though, right?

use Devel::BeginLift qw( require );

:-

Regards,
-- 
Aristotle Pagaltzis // http://plasmasturm.org/