Re: [MP3 ENCODER] Lame development matures ...
On Tue, Jul 11, 2000 at 08:36:44AM -0400, Greg Maxwell wrote: After spending about $100(us) on a pair of Grado SR80s, my 'tolerable' collection of 30+gigs of 192Kbit/sec bladeenc encoded mp3s sounded so digusting that I rm -Rfed the whole lot of them. (To be recompressed as Vorbis files). Aw what a huge waste. If the quality was really that bad maybe you could have shared them with all the Napster fans ;) Then again ... 30Gb via a 28k modem would take a lifetime! 30Gb -- Do you own a cd store or what? -- MP3 ENCODER mailing list ( http://geek.rcc.se/mp3encoder/ )
Re: [MP3 ENCODER] Lame development matures ...
I think my headphones have a better frequency response than my parents' hi-fi system which cost A$2500, incidentally the headphones came free with the system. The hi-fi system seems to have a very heavy hump around 60Hz (estimated, not measured) in comparison to the headphones. I don't think it really matters much, but pump a 6 Hz sinewave into the headphones you can actually see the cones moving. At that level there's no audible distortion. (Or maybe the 6 Hz is masking all its harmonics :-) Shawn -- MP3 ENCODER mailing list ( http://geek.rcc.se/mp3encoder/ )
Re: [MP3 ENCODER] Lame development matures ...
On Wed, Jul 12, 2000 at 05:15:38PM +, Shawn Riley ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote I think my headphones have a better frequency response than my parents' hi-fi system which cost A$2500, incidentally the headphones came free with the system. The hi-fi system seems to have a very heavy hump around 60Hz (estimated, not measured) in comparison to the headphones. Stereo systems are much more difficult to set up than headphones. With headphones, you strap them on your head, and the outside environment doesn't matter much (unless it's a very noisy environment). With speakers, room acoustics play a major role in not just a (semi) flat frequency response, but also in stereo imaging. Rooms dimentions and speaker positions can have serious effects on bass response. I'd bet that walking around your parents' stereo, you can find locations that seem to have a 60Hz dip as well -- there are probably room nodes with both high and low pressure. Also, putting speakers too close to the rear (or even side) walls can give a 6dB boost to bass, and "muddy" the upper frequencies. Having the speakers the same distance from the rear and side walls can also be bad. In small rooms, the lower frequencies get a 12dB per octave boost. There are a myriad of other issues as well. All in all, you can get good frequency response, detail and all the other qualities out of a home stereo that you get out of good head phones -- it just takes more dedication and 'tweaking' (and a lot more money) than strapping the headphones on. A stereo freak, John -- MP3 ENCODER mailing list ( http://geek.rcc.se/mp3encoder/ )
Re: [MP3 ENCODER] Lame development matures ...
At the risk of sounding even more arrogant, I'd like to advise everyone here, putting hours in the development of LAME, if they have not already have done so, to _invest in some decent pair of headphones_. I'll echo what Roel says here. He's not being arrogant, quality headphones are a must. To be a bit arrogant myself, I haven't heard anything from [for example] Sony that counts as quality. If they came bundled with a cd player or you can get them at 'WalMart' or 'BestBuy', throw them out now. :-P I myself bought a good pair of Sennheiser HD-490 headphones ($45, belgium) and a sb128 soundcard ($25, nice linear play and high S/N ratio(linux compatible, ensoniq)). Another set of very good, reasonably priced headphones are the Grado Labs SR80s (my personal price/performance favorites at roughly $80). Monty -- MP3 ENCODER mailing list ( http://geek.rcc.se/mp3encoder/ )
Re: [MP3 ENCODER] Lame development matures ...
I really have to second this. A pair of $2000 floor standing speakers can't compete with the flatness of a good pair of headphones (due to room modes if nothing else). After spending about $100(us) on a pair of Grado SR80s, my 'tolerable' collection of 30+gigs of 192Kbit/sec bladeenc encoded mp3s sounded so digusting that I rm -Rfed the whole lot of them. (To be recompressed as Vorbis files). (Not to mention that I've had a lot more fun listening to music with these headphones) :) On Tue, 11 Jul 2000, Roel VdB wrote: [snip] At the risk of sounding even more arrogant, I'd like to advise everyone here, putting hours in the development of LAME, if they have not already have done so, to _invest in some decent pair of headphones_. I myself bought a good pair of Sennheiser HD-490 headphones ($45, belgium) and a sb128 soundcard ($25, nice linear play and high S/N ratio(linux compatible, ensoniq)). I think this would be a _very_ rational investment, considering the countless hours spent tweaking and perfecting lame. I've heard several times that people say: I cannot hear the artifacts because of my bad hearing (age), but I'm convinced that just about everyone here can hear what I'm hearing (with ease). _Take my word for it_ that when you listen to some clips with this $70 equipment you * will hear the 16kHz region (and miss it when filtered out) * will find 192 insufficient for some uses, let alone 128 It's just, being blunt (we're all adults), I find it such a loss of efford and time and unnecessary introduction of arbitrariness to the debate of sound quality when you don't explore this option. (btw: my hifi is _not_ a crap system, but the headphones just add a completely other dimension) [snip] -- MP3 ENCODER mailing list ( http://geek.rcc.se/mp3encoder/ )
RE: [MP3 ENCODER] Lame development matures ...
From: Monty [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] I myself bought a good pair of Sennheiser HD-490 headphones ($45, belgium) and a sb128 soundcard ($25, nice linear play and high S/N ratio(linux compatible, ensoniq)). Another set of very good, reasonably priced headphones are the Grado Labs SR80s (my personal price/performance favorites at roughly $80). Grado are good, as are Beyerdynamic. I have DT331s (80UKP) at home and DT75s (35UKP) at work. Both are very light and comfortable. I've tried several pairs of Sennheisers, and found them bass-heavy and uncomfortable. YMMV. -- Mat. -- MP3 ENCODER mailing list ( http://geek.rcc.se/mp3encoder/ )
RE: [MP3 ENCODER] Lame development matures ...
Howdy, I'll third (or fourth or whatever) this as well, though with a few caveats... I really have to second this. A pair of $2000 floor standing speakers can't compete with the flatness of a good pair of headphones (due to room modes if nothing else). Well, yes and no. I rely strongly on headphones to pick apart frequency content (esp. highs), but I'd want the aforementioned $2000 speakers if I were really concerned about stereo image and spatialization. Thankfully, I'm not, though, which is good, 'cause I don't have the cash for that kind of system. After spending about $100(us) on a pair of Grado SR80s... I guess I'm going to have to try to locate some Grados. Here at work I use AKG K240df, which are pretty much studio standard, and fairly expensive (~$200). I would note that there appears to be at least a small contingent who would take issue with Monty's disdain for headphones by Sony and/or headphones from Beast Buy or equivalent chains... I found some discussion either here (http://www.headwize.com/) or elsewhere on the pros/cons of relatively inexpensive Sony earbuds, which are actually what I use for day-to-day listening. Also, I'd like to plug http://pcavtech.com/ once more. They have reorganized their soundcard ratings to be more readable, and have a lot of 'benchmark' data on pretty much everything out there, side by side for comparison. When I was looking for soundcards, everyone else was offering subjective impressions or manufacturer spam statistics - these guys do it hard way it and makes a big difference. They confirm that the SB128 does not suck (unlike many other fine SB products). I use a refurbished Turtle Beach Pinnacle here at work, and it has _very good_ D/A, though it has a disturbing tendency to crash my NT4 machine hard once a week or so - but one can never really be sure who to blame that on, now can one... Alex -- MP3 ENCODER mailing list ( http://geek.rcc.se/mp3encoder/ )
Re: [MP3 ENCODER] Lame development matures ...
There's not a part of this I don't disagree with. Even on a very decent Hi-Fi and stereo speakers, I find it hard to find many of these artifacts people keep talking about. On a £20 pair of headphones, almost everything sounds marvellous, though any encoding artifacts can be heard well. Another thing - Bass sounds are much clearer on headphones. To get even a reasonable level of Bass on my stereo, I have to boost the bass. With headphones, there's plenty of bass, even with bass-boost turned off. David -- MP3 ENCODER mailing list ( http://geek.rcc.se/mp3encoder/ )
