Here's a question. What happens if I am at a stop light where I currently
have the green and signal a lefthand turn well in advance of the light
turning red and some yahoo from the opposite directin (it happens a lot),
speeds-up to make the light, causing me to prudently wait for him to go
Dan wrote:
Many many on this list, despite this information still enthusiastically
support the cameras. Apparently in Minneapolis, making money for the city is
more important than protecting the citizens.
Ron writes:
Yes, in spite of any information to the negative presented here, I
-Original Message-
From: Leurquin, Ronald
As for causing more accidents, the use of 'accidents' is very wrong. These
are not accidental in any way, its poor driving habits that need to stop.
[TB] No its not, Accidents is a very appropriate term.
ac.ci.dent ((ks-dnt, -dnt)
Astounding! You are so egar to turn law-enforcement (read: revenue
generating) over to automation run by a private, for-profit
venture, that you will turn a blind eye to a documented increase
in traffic injuries as a result of this highly irresponsible,
suspicious Orwellian system?
- Original Message -
From: Dan [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: mpls@mnforum.org
Sent: Thursday, February 24, 2005 1:12 AM
Subject: Re: [Mpls] Red Light Cameras CAUSE Injuries
I posted a link to a NYT's article on this subject a while
back. Yes, rear-end collisions increase, but side impact
collisions
Good morning
I read the article and it leaves a lot to be desired for information, but I
also realize a newspaper article of that length rarely tells the whole story.
What I read into that article is the number of persons that realize they can
ignore the ticket gives them no incentive to stop,
Dan McGrath wrote:
Whoah. Slow it down, there fellow citizens. A study in VA
(by people who favor red-light cameras) found that the use
of them increases injuries. I strongly encourage everyone to
look at this before jumping on the automated law-enforcement
bandwagon.
injuries are less severe. I think that rear-end collisions
can also be reduced by a public awareness campaign prior
to installing cameras.
why wouldn't a public awareness campaign work for side impact collisions?
I have commuted for work for 10 years, most to downtown mpls from st paul,
John writes:
... i haven't witnessed a situation where they are dangerous. I
know it can be but i have driven a lot of miles and i just don't have the
personal experience to claim that it is a problem of epidemic proportions.
perhaps i am lucky, but i am skeptical of luck. when a light turns
A couple of people in this thread have commented that they rarely see people
blow through red lights. That they don't see them scares me -- it's evidence
that they as well as other drivers are not as competent, alert and observant
as they ought to be.
On any given day in rush hour traffic, I
John Harris wrote:
why wouldn't a public awareness campaign work for side
impact collisions?
Because you are more likely to alter behavior when there
is accountability, i.e., a ticket. The idea for a public
awareness campaign for cameras is because behavior is unlikely
to change if people
A couple of people in this thread have commented that they rarely see people
blow through red lights. That they don't see them scares me -- it's evidence
that they as well as other drivers are not as competent, alert and observant
as they ought to be.
i'll take offense to you claiming i
Hi folks,
I'm not sure if the point has been made before or not as I'm new to this
thread, but it can be perfectly legitimate to see a car (either crossing or
turning) in the intersection after your light has turned green. If a car
has crossed the stop bar (solid white line generally before the
and is using the data in a responsible and fair manner. I am proud
that he is a member of the MPD.
Mike Thompson
Windom
- Original Message -
From: Dorothy Titus [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: mpls@mnforum.org
Sent: Wednesday, February 23, 2005 2:06 PM
Subject: RE: [Mpls] Red Light Cameras CAUSE Injuries
I posted a link to a NYT's article on this subject a while
back. Yes, rear-end collisions increase, but side impact
collisions decrease. Rear-end collisions normally occur
at much slower speeds than side impact collisions and the
injuries are less severe. I think that rear-end collisions
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Becker
Sent: Tuesday, August 31, 2004 7:43 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [Mpls] Red Light Cameras
Jim Bernstein wrote:
I strongly second Chris's position! The analysis done by the Weekly
Standard is quite
. It is no coincidence that
the use of fast yellows is essential to generating the big money that
this technology can generate. And, rather than using the cameras at
high risk intersections they are placed at high traffic intersections to
catch more people and generate more fines rather
A few thoughts,
First off, yellow light duration is set according to
MNDOT guidelines. These guidelines are based mostly
on the posted speed through the area with a variance
for grade and for width of the intersection.Any
attempt by a city to deviate from this, especially by
going under, is
John McClellan wrote:
A few thoughts,
First off, yellow light duration is set according to
MNDOT guidelines.
One would think so, anyway. But in reality, many are not. In the very same
document Mr. McClellan quotes, it also states there should be an all-red
clearance time of 1 to 5 seconds
Jim Bernstein wrote:
I strongly second Chris's position! The analysis done by the Weekly
Standard is quite an eye opener! If Minneapolis is going to adopt this
strategy, we need to make sure that the red-light camera scam being used
in other cities is not repeated in Minneapolis!
It should
Carol Becker wrote:
It should be noted that the Weekly Standard is an
ultra-conservative right wing newspaper known for its
biased pseudo-journalism. It is owned by Rupert Murdoch
and is perceived to be one of the leading neo-conservative
papers, well read by the Bush administration. It
Becker wrote:
Jim Bernstein wrote:
I strongly second Chris's position! The analysis done by the Weekly
Standard is quite an eye opener! If Minneapolis is going to adopt this
strategy, we need to make sure that the red-light camera scam being used
in other cities is not repeated in Minneapolis!
In a message dated 8/31/04 7:43:15 AM Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:
References.
http://www.projectcensored.org/publications/2004/1.html
http://www.newamericancentury.org/
http://www.mediatransparency.org/people/bill_kristol.htm
, August 31, 2004 9:31 AM
Subject: Re: [Mpls] Red Light Cameras
Becker wrote:
Jim Bernstein wrote:
I strongly second Chris's position! The analysis done by the Weekly
Standard is quite an eye opener! If Minneapolis is going to adopt this
strategy, we need to make sure that the red-light
Michael Atherton wrote:
There is absolutely no attempt to address the facts or issues
reported in the article. Ms. Becker only attempts to counter
by citing her own ultra-liberal left-wing biased pseudo-journalistic
sources.
Chris Johnson wrote:
That may well be, Carol, but smearing the
: [Mpls] Red Light Cameras
Charles Gimon wrote:
Anyone with an interest in red-light cameras should read the
5-part expose written by Matt Labash of the Weekly Standard
in 2002:
http://www.weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/001/078fto
qz.asp
After reading the extensive
What will be done with all the photos of city squad cars captured on this system?
Based on what I have witnessed over the years, one will find quite a few.
George Torline
Central
Brooklyn Park
REMINDERS:
1. Think a member has violated the rules? Email the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Charles Gimon wrote:
Anyone with an interest in red-light cameras should read the
5-part expose written by Matt Labash of the Weekly Standard
in 2002:
http://www.weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/001/078ftoqz.asp
After reading the extensive multi-part report at the above web
Where's the evidence that traffic light timing has become more
aggressive? How is de-synchronizing lights an aggressive policy
versus one of neglect?
It's an agressive attack on the automobile, and the people who drive them.
It's a deliberate attempt to make driving less pleasant, in an
I am happy to see the city pushing this issue forward. Some folks have
commented that there are some lights they feel do not have a properly timed
yellow. That wouldn't surprise me given the number of traffic lights in the
city. My personal experience is that most not only are properly timed
Mark quipped:
Since these cameras are up and operating in a number of other cities
throughout the country, I'm personally not too worried about legal
challenges.
However, can someone explain the logic of how catching someone blowing
through a red light is an invasion of privacy?
I'm open
I would hope that the dollars collected from the potential cameras would be used to
hire more police officers. I have almost been hit several times by folks speeding
through the red light.
Maybe the cameras could capture other activity going on in the area.
Dennis Tifft
Bryant Neighborhood
Not only do I support such cameras, I hope
that the police create mobile Stop Sign
Cameras and park one at the intersection
of Orlin and Bedford.
Michael Atherton
Prospect Park
REMINDERS:
1. Think a member has violated the rules? Email the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED]
before continuing it
AMEN, and again I say AMEN.
This is the best idea that my city council has managed to do in a while now.
I have no pity what-so-ever for red light runners.
Maybe we could have it made standard equipment with all traffic lights.
Not only would it raise revenue, the miscreants could eventually pay
Ok, the comments below I will bite on.
Nathan wrote:
Imagine you're blowing through a red light with your mistress to get to your
motel room before you have to go back home to the family. A picture of you
with your mistress is taken and sent to your house and your cover is blown.
Yes,
Thank God the camera only gets a picture of the
license plate. This way Nathan or whatever married man
he may have been referring to can get to the motel
with his mistress without fear that his family will
find out he is having an affair.
I hope they expand the camera program to include areas
I would like to second Barb's comment about the expansion of the
program.
I would propose that many neighborhoods would be willing to front the
money for the cameras. Perhaps the fines could be divided between who
ever does the ticket processing and the neighborhood to pay back the
initial
Why stop at drug dealers? Lets use cameras to catch jaywalkers, people in the
warehouse district that urinate in on the street, people smoking withing 25
feet of air ducts outside buildings, people who ride bikes without helmets
(might not be a law but why not make it one, either that or we could
I think the biggest question to be raised on this issue is a subjective one.
Trends in a society are not often clear-cut until long after the fact.
I suspect however, that if the intersections where the cameras were located
were clearly marked that video surveillance was taking place (with
Michael Atherton wrote:
Not only do I support such cameras, I hope
that the police create mobile Stop Sign
Cameras and park one at the intersection
of Orlin and Bedford.
Michael Atherton
Prospect Park
I've never heard of such a beast -- a Stop Sign Camera. But if they
exist, one installed at my
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [Mpls] Red Light Cameras
Michael Atherton wrote:
Not only do I support such cameras, I hope
that the police create mobile Stop Sign
Cameras and park one at the intersection
of Orlin and Bedford.
Michael Atherton
Prospect Park
I've never heard
JH: Why stop at drug dealers? Lets use cameras to catch jaywalkers, people in the
warehouse district that urinate in on the street, people smoking withing 25 feet of
air ducts outside buildings, people who ride bikes without helmets (might not be a law
but why not make it one, either that or
These cameras are not surveilance cameras (they don't pan and zoom)
and cannot be used to address general neighborhood issues (drug
dealing, etc.). They are fixed position, fixed focus cameras that are
integrated with the stoplights and can take pictures of licenses
plates when the system senses
Wonderful idea! Except for those few intersections for which there is no apparent
reason for the
'no turn on red' restriction. Maybe at a later date they can hook up Mega Bass
detectors to these
things and perform double-duty. 8-) -- We've got enough noise pollution in
Minneapolis from less
I would like the cameras in linen closets, bedrooms, baths. Do not remove
under penalty of law tag removal could be the beginning of a life of
crime. Let's hit these scofflaws where they least expect it.
--David Shove
Roseville
On Thu, 26 Aug 2004, Connie Beckers The Goddess of Glass wrote:
Lt. Reinhardt writes:
Note: Red light cameras are not surveillance cameras. Only those persons
breaking certain
traffic laws will trigger a photo. Those who respect obey the traffic
laws will never
generate a photograph.
Someone earlier likened the red-light ticket to a parking ticket
Dan Prozinski wrote:
Red light cameras are not needed. Let's back up.
This inner city speeding and red light running has been a growing
problem in recent years not coincidentally as the timing of traffic
lights throughout the city has become more aggressive. The Traffic
Control Department
On 8/25/04 5:35 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
It looks like Minneapolis could get red light cameras sometime in 2005. This
afternoon the Public Safety and Regulatory Services Committee voted 4-0
(Niziolek, Colvin Roy, Johnson, Samuels) to move a proposed red light camera
48 matches
Mail list logo
