Re: [Mudlet-makers] [Bug 1099688] Re: does not resolve the \t character
Then show me the RFC that defines it :-) Am 26.02.2013 17:20, schrieb Jeremy Akers: The behavior of tabs are well known and defined since the age of typewriters. Saying a tab character is technically undefined is absolutely incorrect. See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tab_key and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tab_stop Yes most systems allow users to change the tab stop setting, but it generally defaults to 8 unless the user changes it. Just replacing tabs with x number of spaces is also wrong. Tabs are meant to create tabular data. They are generally set up to create 8 column tab stops So: Text\tMore text would display as: TextMore Text and: Someone\tMore Text Would be: Someone More text Basically the word More should always start at the 9th column due to the use of the tab character here. Even the crappy Windows telnet.exe handles tabs properly. -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Mudlet Makers, which is subscribed to Mudlet. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1099688 Title: does not resolve the \t character Status in Mudlet the MUD client: New Bug description: Mudlet does not seem to support the \t character (tab). On muds where this is used, Mudlet prints nothing. It does not indent at all. What is expected is either showing the tab character or 8 spaces, but neither happens, and things that are aligned using tabs make things look all wonky, like maps, etc. Mudlet: 2.1 OS: OSX 10.8.2 To manage notifications about this bug go to: https://bugs.launchpad.net/mudlet/+bug/1099688/+subscriptions ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~mudlet-makers Post to : mudlet-makers@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~mudlet-makers More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Mudlet-makers] [Bug 1099688] Re: does not resolve the \t character
Does your game support RFC654? I have yet to see a game that does. Your cited RFC 659 doesn't define anything about tabs. Let me quote RFC 854: Horizontal Tab (HT) 9 Moves the printer to the next horizontal tab stop. It remains unspecified how either party determines or establishes where such tab stops are located. And this is why I say tab is undefined. I wrote my first computer program 1982 and I'm well aware of how tabs have been used historically. I'm also aware that some clients somehow handle tabs or the underlying terminal handles it for them. However, the questions still remains: 1. Neither game nor client know where the other party defines the tab positions. 2. What happens if the user sets word wrap to 20 and we use the most common 8-Tab-Stop-Position. Your game sends this/tis/tgetting/tdifficult How do you wrapt the lines? How about tab pos #3? 3. What happens if the user has triggers on this line that do larger text replacements in-line, insert newlines etc.? Don't get me wrong, I'm still open for discussion but I think that games simply should not use tabs. Backspaces, VT100 control codes etc. are all things that have no room in modern clients because they are yesterday's tech and have no room in users actually use modern clients. Am 26.02.2013 21:15, schrieb Jeremy Akers: First of all: Not every technical definition exists in an RFC. This is functionality that every other MUD client has, and even basic telnet apps like Windows telnet.exe and puttytel.exe also support. There is support for TABs in HTML and CSS as well. It's a well supported character across the spectrum. But to answer your question: http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc654 and http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc659 For more: http://www.thoughtproject.com/libraries/telnet/Reference/RFCs.htm -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Mudlet Makers, which is subscribed to Mudlet. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1099688 Title: does not resolve the \t character Status in Mudlet the MUD client: New Bug description: Mudlet does not seem to support the \t character (tab). On muds where this is used, Mudlet prints nothing. It does not indent at all. What is expected is either showing the tab character or 8 spaces, but neither happens, and things that are aligned using tabs make things look all wonky, like maps, etc. Mudlet: 2.1 OS: OSX 10.8.2 To manage notifications about this bug go to: https://bugs.launchpad.net/mudlet/+bug/1099688/+subscriptions ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~mudlet-makers Post to : mudlet-makers@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~mudlet-makers More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Mudlet-makers] [Bug 1099688] Re: does not resolve the \t character
You haven't explained how you'd solve my 3 open questions. Am 26.02.2013 23:08, schrieb Jeremy Akers: Again, you asked for an RFC, and I provided one. I never said my game supported it. In fact RFC 654 doesn't require support from the game side, because it specifically says: The guiding rules are that: 1) if neither data receiver nor data sender wants to handle output horizontal tab characters, the data receiver must do it, Mudlet, in this case, is the data receiver. It should be able to handle them. All you'd need to do is add a configuration option where users can specify how many columns they want for a tab stop. Supporting tabs is not difficult. All you have to do is pad spaces until you reach a number of spaces that is evenly divisible by the number of columns in a tab stop (Which should default to 8, unless otherwise configured by a user). Backspaces, VT100 control codes etc. are all things that have no room in modern clients because they are yesterday's tech and have no room in users actually use modern clients. I'm sorry, but you can't be serious. MUDs are built on ancient technology *by definition*. And this is supposed to be a MUD client. They use TELNET as their primary protocol. For you to say you don't want to support TABs because it's yesterday's tech given the context makes me LOL a little bit. There are likely tons of MUDs out there using tabs. Web browsers support it, CSS supports it, ever other MUD client supports it... I just don't understand the push back for supporting it. Especially since it would be quite simple to properly support. And I don't mean just replace tabs with N characters. Replace it with the appropriate number of characters so that it evenly pads out to whatever the tab stop is as defined by the user. -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Mudlet Makers, which is subscribed to Mudlet. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1099688 Title: does not resolve the \t character Status in Mudlet the MUD client: New Bug description: Mudlet does not seem to support the \t character (tab). On muds where this is used, Mudlet prints nothing. It does not indent at all. What is expected is either showing the tab character or 8 spaces, but neither happens, and things that are aligned using tabs make things look all wonky, like maps, etc. Mudlet: 2.1 OS: OSX 10.8.2 To manage notifications about this bug go to: https://bugs.launchpad.net/mudlet/+bug/1099688/+subscriptions ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~mudlet-makers Post to : mudlet-makers@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~mudlet-makers More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Mudlet-makers] [Bug 1099688] Re: does not resolve the \t character
In light of MUDs still using the ambiguous tab character, it might be good to have Mudlet auto-replace it with four spaces (arbitrarily chosen, because nothing really is expected, there's on standard for it in a MUD world). kmuddy has no relation to mudlet's display. -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Mudlet Makers, which is subscribed to Mudlet. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1099688 Title: does not resolve the \t character Status in Mudlet the MUD client: New Bug description: Mudlet does not seem to support the \t character (tab). On muds where this is used, Mudlet prints nothing. It does not indent at all. What is expected is either showing the tab character or 8 spaces, but neither happens, and things that are aligned using tabs make things look all wonky, like maps, etc. Mudlet: 2.1 OS: OSX 10.8.2 To manage notifications about this bug go to: https://bugs.launchpad.net/mudlet/+bug/1099688/+subscriptions ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~mudlet-makers Post to : mudlet-makers@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~mudlet-makers More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
