Re: set date_format

[Will Yardley]

On Thu, May 09, 2024 at 06:47:30PM +, Ебрашка wrote:
> Can you tell me how to make the date display in the catalog with letters
> in day/month/year format, i.e. 09/05/2024 I write in muttrc set
> date_format="%d/%m/%Y" and there are no changes.

I think you need to override the default or current setting of
$index_format, and change %{%b %d} to %D (or %d if you want the sender's
time zone)

Maybe someone can better explain this (since the behavior I'm seeing
from %{%b %d} doesn't line up exactly with what I'd expect from TFM),
but I think that will give the behavior you want.

w

Re: How to delete message with purge=no?

[Will Yardley]

On Wed, Apr 10, 2024 at 08:22:03PM +0800, Sadeep Madurange wrote:
> When deleting emails (with d), I get a prompt for purging them. I'd like
> to silence that prompt with 'no'. And, see the prompt when I change
> folder, or better yet, when I quit mutt.
> 
> Is there a way to do this?

If I'm understanding your question right, I think if you have
"delete=ask-yes" in your config, this will already be the case, i.e., it
should just be marking the message for deletion, and asking you when
synchronizing the mailbox, which should already only happen when you're
changing folder or quitting, unless you explicitly run .

Do you have any macros that might be running ?

w

Re: Question about message id

[Will Yardley]

On Wed, Apr 10, 2024 at 01:05:09PM +0800, Kevin J. McCarthy wrote:
> On Tue, Apr 09, 2024 at 09:33:06AM -0700, Will Yardley wrote:
> > side note: using quotes around the template screws things up, that is,
> > set message_id_format=""
> > vs
> > set message_id_format=
> > 
> > results in a broken message-id with the quotes inside the angle brackets
> > (Message-ID: <"xyz">)
> 
> That shouldn't be the case.  The outer double quotes are stripped off during
> muttrc evaluation.
> 
> You may want to double check whether you accidentally copy/pasted unicode
> curly quotes.

You're right. That said, maybe we could setup the online version of the
docs to be more copy / pasta compliant?
http://www.mutt.org/doc/manual/#message-id-format

I'd normally expect to be able to copy the whole string (including the
quotes) into a config

Seems like mutt is using "\fC" and "\fP" consistently (intentionally?)
in various sections of the docs in init.h, though. 

The quotes in 2202 are also a little odd with the left / right double
quotes, then outer regular double quotes, then inner regular ones.
https://gitlab.com/muttmua/mutt/-/blob/master/init.h?ref_type=heads#L2202
https://gitlab.com/muttmua/mutt/-/blob/master/init.h?ref_type=heads#L2208

/w

Re: Question about message id

[Will Yardley]

On Tue, Apr 09, 2024 at 11:33:55AM -0400, Derek Martin wrote:
> > I think some people mentioned some minor threading issues with the new
> > format?
> 
> Is that so?  I don't recall noticing anything about that... I'd love a
> pointer to some details, if anyone has that.

It's possible that it was since fixed. The issue isn't with threading
_in_ a main client, I think, but with certain web archiving software in
the case where the message-id has a "/" character.

https://people.kernel.org/monsieuricon/fix-your-mutt

> Anyway, I said then, and
> maintain now, that changing the format and making it configurable was
> pointless and added complexity without good technical justification.
> You may have just proven that. =8^)

Right, I was also fine with the old format, which is why I'm glad
there's an option to put it back. I'm not personally interested in
reviving the old argument about whether the new format is better or
worse, as long as there's a simple way to restore the old behavior with
a config option.

side note: using quotes around the template screws things up, that is,
set message_id_format=""
vs
set message_id_format=

results in a broken message-id with the quotes inside the angle brackets
(Message-ID: <"xyz">)

if folks think that's a bug, I'm happy to file an issue about it, though
just not using the quotes worked fine.

/w

Re: Question about message id

[Will Yardley]

On Tue, Apr 09, 2024 at 11:33:55AM -0400, Derek Martin wrote:
> On Tue, Apr 09, 2024 at 08:05:06AM -0700, Will Yardley wrote:
> > On Tue, Apr 09, 2024 at 10:53:41AM -0400, Derek Martin wrote:
> > > The unfathomable thing about this question is why you (or anyone)
> > > should care in the slightest what your message ID looks like.
> > 
> > That's totally true, but I still like the classic Mutt message-id
> > format.
> 
> Did you set your message ID format accordingly, then?  Because the
> message I'm replying to carries this:
> 
> Message-ID: <20240409150506.ga47...@aura.veggiechinese.net>
> 
> If so that feature may not be working correctly...

That is the old format for the mutt version I'm using. The new format
looks like



Thought you were on that long thread about this when it changed a while
back, but maybe remembering wrong.

w

Re: Question about message id

[Will Yardley]

On Tue, Apr 09, 2024 at 10:53:41AM -0400, Derek Martin wrote:
> The unfathomable thing about this question is why you (or anyone)
> should care in the slightest what your message ID looks like.

That's totally true, but I still like the classic Mutt message-id
format. Maybe it's just nostalgia, but either way, I'm not super
worried about leaking my PID etc... so I'm happy someone added the
feature to make it configurable.

I think some people mentioned some minor threading issues with the new
format?

w

Re: Question about message id

[Will Yardley]

On Sun, Apr 07, 2024 at 01:19:09PM +, Ебрашка wrote:
> Question, what should I write in .muttrc to make my outgoing mails have
> the same beautiful message-ID as Yandex mail? 
> For example Message-Id: <43265...@example.com> consisting of random
> digits and domain name

There was a long debate about the message-id format that you could
probably dig up. For a long time, the Mutt ones were a date string
followed by an epoch timestamp.

The change in 2.0 was somewhat controversial. Note that this is now
configurable (which I hadn't known and / or had forgotten), so, assuming
you're using mutt >= 2.1, you can customize it if you'd like using this
config setting:

http://www.mutt.org/doc/manual/#message-id-format

[I'm testing it out myself on this response!]

w

Re: [OT] Terminal redraw issues / isync launchctl job in macOS 13.5

[Will Yardley]

On Tue, Aug 15, 2023 at 08:52:21AM +0200, Jan Eden via Mutt-users wrote:
> On 2023-08-14 14:16, Will Yardley wrote:
> > I am observing this as well (at least with 2.2.7) -- both before and
> > after recompiling.
> 
> This can be fixed by using a newer ncurses version, as Dennis suggested
> on this list.

Thanks, yeah, should have read the whole thread first.

I can confirm that building against newer ncurses did resolve the issues
for me.

w

Re: compiling issues on latest ventura + latest mutt

[Will Yardley]

On Tue, Aug 15, 2023 at 12:39:34PM +0800, Kevin J. McCarthy wrote:
> On Mon, Aug 14, 2023 at 02:02:52PM -0700, Will Yardley wrote:
> > Building latest mutt (2.2.10) on latest Ventura (13.5) (using homebrew
> > for all the deps), and getting errors like this for gpg-error and a
> > similar one for gpgme itself
> 
> Sorry for my delayed attention to this issue.  Mutt 2.2.9 did make changes
> to the GPGME build process: it updated to the latest autoconf files from
> upstream to fix build issues.  However, it appears that inadvertently caused
> problems on MacOS.
> 
> If possible, would you be able to try building from the branch
> `kevin/stable-gpgme-macos-fix` and see if that addresses the compilation
> error?

I tested on a different machine (but same version), and that seemed to
resolve it.

I created an issue here:
https://gitlab.com/muttmua/mutt/-/issues/451

since that seems like a better way to track this now that I know this
was an actual issue.

w

Re: [OT] Terminal redraw issues / isync launchctl job in macOS 13.5

[Will Yardley]

On Mon, Aug 07, 2023 at 03:47:53PM +0200, Jan Eden via Mutt-users wrote:
> 
> I recently upgraded to macOS 13.5, and for the first time, there are
> redraw issues in the Terminal with mutt (2.2.10, installed via
> Homebrew). Also, the launchctl job for isync/mbsync (1.4.4, also
> installed via Homebrew) fails since the upgrade.

I am observing this as well (at least with 2.2.7) -- both before and
after recompiling.

w

compiling issues on latest ventura + latest mutt

[Will Yardley]

Building latest mutt (2.2.10) on latest Ventura (13.5) (using homebrew
for all the deps), and getting errors like this for gpg-error and a
similar one for gpgme itself (side note: the actual problem I'm trying
to fix is weird screen redraw artifacts since updating OS X with the
version I'd had installed: 2.2.7; not sure if anyone else is seeing
anything like that).

configure: WARNING:
***
*** The config script "/opt/homebrew/bin/gpgrt-config 
--libdir=/opt/homebrew/lib gpg-error" was
*** built for aarch64-apple-darwin22.3.0 and thus may not match the
*** used host aarch64-apple-darwin22.6.0.
*** You may want to use the configure option --with-libgpg-error-prefix
*** to specify a matching config script or use $SYSROOT.
***

I'm running:
% ./configure --disable-fcntl --disable-pop --enable-imap --enable-debug 
--disable-flock --enable-gpgme --enable-locales-fix --with-sasl=/usr/local 
--enable-smtp --without-gss --enable-hcache --without-gdbm --without-bdb 
--with-kyotocabinet=/opt/homebrew/opt/kyoto-cabinet 
--with-ssl=/opt/homebrew/opt/openssl@3.1

Also experimented with adding:
--includedir=/opt/homebrew/include --with-gpgme-prefix=/opt/homebrew/opt/gpgme  
--with-libgpg-error-prefix=/opt/homebrew/opt/libgpg-error
(which I don't usually use / need)

Rebuilding both packages from source in Homebrew ("brew reinstall
--build-from-source libgpg-error gpgme") silences those warnings during
the configure step, but make still fails on:

In file included from crypt-gpgme.c:47:
/opt/homebrew/Cellar/gpgme/1.21.0/include/gpgme.h:30:10: fatal error: 
'gpg-error.h' file not found
#include 
 ^
1 error generated.

Any ideas on how to fix this?

I have an old source directory for 2.2.7 that already had been
configured, and I can make clean / make there just fine.

I can file a bug or write the dev list, but wanted to see if anyone else
is seeing the same error first, and / or knows of an obvious fix, since
a lot of this seems like it could be OS X and / or Homebrew specific.

w

Re: INBOX message count in sidebar

[Will Yardley]

On Mon, Jul 24, 2023 at 10:18:37PM +0200, Mikhail Nidze via Mutt-users wrote:
> The problem was in *folder* and *spoolfile* variables incorrectly set.
> The correct ones are:
> 
>   set folder = "imaps://imap.mail.me.com:993"
>   set spoolfile = "imaps://my_acco...@imap.mail.me.com/INBOX"

BTW, Kevin's response may have hinted at this a bit, but you can use +
or = before so that you don't have to repeat the imaps:// part, e.g.,

set folder="imaps://imap.example.com/"
set spoolfile=+INBOX
set postponed=+Drafts
# or, Gmail style w/ label prefix on folder name
set postponed="+[Gmail]/Drafts"

/w
w

Re: Is there any way to view text/html inline *only if* we think text/plain is not right?

[Will Yardley]

I usually hit 'v' and then go in and view the other section that way if
I don't think the default one (I think plain text for me) looks right.

w

Re: restrict folder hook to specific folder(s)

[Will Yardley]

On Wed, May 03, 2023 at 11:27:05AM -0500, Ranjan Maitra wrote:

> I have a folder called "R". There are other folders that have "R" in
> their name. However, when I set up a
> 
> folder-hook '(R)'
> 
> it seems to apply to all folders with R in it, with embarrassing
> consequences. How do I make sure that the hook applies to the R folder
> and nothing else?

I've not used folder-hooks myself, but it looks like you may have to
anchor one or both sides of the regex to get the behavior you want.

http://www.mutt.org/doc/manual/#mailbox-hook

has some examples.

and
http://www.mutt.org/doc/manual/#regexp
has some info on the regex syntax

w

Re: from and envelope_from_address

[Will Yardley]

On Mon, Feb 13, 2023 at 03:34:07PM -0800, Ian Zimmerman wrote:
> On Mon, Feb 13, 2023 at 02:02:54PM -0800, Will Yardley wrote:
> > Won't setting
> > set use_from
> > globally accomplish always setting the envelope-from address to the
> > header from?
> 
> Not in my testing, no. In fact, if you closely examine my original
> message, and assuming the tracing headers don't get dropped or mangled
> by mailman, you'll see that it didn't work that time.

Yes, sorry. I misremembered.
set envelope_from
is the setting I was thinking of:

http://www.rdrop.com/docs/mutt/manual138.html

Re: from and envelope_from_address

[Will Yardley]

On Mon, Feb 13, 2023 at 09:39:20AM -0800, Kevin J. McCarthy wrote:
> On Sun, Feb 12, 2023 at 05:14:38PM -0800, Ian Zimmerman wrote:
> > lists -group mutt mutt-users
> > send-hook '%L mutt' "set from='googly.negotiator...@aceecat.org' ; set 
> > envelope_from_address='googly.negotiator...@aceecat.org'"
> 
> You can assign envelope_from_address=$from.  However, make sure you use a
> single quote on the send-hook command, to delay expansion of $from until the
> hook is executed:

Won't setting
set use_from
globally accomplish always setting the envelope-from address to the
header from?

w

Re: test shell env in .muttrc

[Will Yardley]

On Mon, Dec 05, 2022 at 08:26:16PM -0500, Jon LaBadie wrote:

> Perhaps I've overlooked the facility.  Is there a way to test the
> shell environment in .muttrc?  Basically an "if" statement.
> 
> I enter mutt in several ways (direct, aliases, shell scripts,
> functions, etc) and from several devices.  My smart phone needs a
> different color scheme than the other devices.

I think there may be an internal way as well, but one option would be to
set an env var (e.g., TYPE) depending on the type of session, and then
do something like (untested):

source ~/.mutt/colors.${TYPE:-default}

Or you could key it on hostname, similar to this example:
https://lwn.net/Articles/587348/

You can also source a shell script to do some stuff
https://mutt-users.mutt.narkive.com/WovuIH31/conditionally-include-a-file-in-the-configuration

there may be some patches to support more within the config itself.
neomutt (which I don't use personally) has some support via this hook:
https://neomutt.org/feature/ifdef

Re: [Mutt] attach file from another email to current email

[Will Yardley]

On Wed, Nov 16, 2022 at 10:15:48AM +0100, Bastian wrote:
> On 15Nov22 23:36-0600, Ranjan Maitra wrote:
> > On Tue Nov15'22 12:33:32AM, Mihai Lazarescu wrote:
> > > You can select the attachments you want from one source message, then 
> > > reply
> > > (r) or forward (f) and mutt will ask whether to attach them to the new
> > > message.
> > 
> > Thanks very much. Sorry I am green at this: if I write an email, and 
> > then after I am done writing an email, and I want to include an 
> > attachment from another email (perhaps in another folder), what do I 
> > do?
> 
> AFAIK this is not possible. I would say, only attaching an email as a 
> whole works.

You can postpone the message, open the other email, save to a file, and
then attach to the other message. So it's possible in a sense, but maybe
not super convenient.

w

Re: in search of OAuth2 tokens for Microsoft Office 365

[Will Yardley]

On Tue, Oct 25, 2022 at 06:13:42PM -0500, Greg Marks wrote:
> Is the least intrusive way to proceed to request that my Azure account
> associated with my university e-mail be granted permission in the
> Azure Active Directory in the Azure AD role of "Application
> developer"?

So, I went through some similar thing (only in a corp vs. EDU type
environment), and I think that creating an "app" in AD would indeed be
the first step towards getting this working (whether that needs to be
within their AD or whether you can make your own account and create the
app I can't say; probably the former). After that, I believe
they'll also have to approve it for use.

Since Thunderbird works, I'm _assuming_ they haven't dropped "legacy"
(i.e., standard) protocols, but you may want to verify that _before_
going through the process.

w

Re: Regard To-Envelope for alternates?

[Will Yardley]

On Tue, Sep 13, 2022 at 04:42:17PM +, Tim Chase wrote:
> 
> While I wish I had a satisfactory answer, this is mostly to chime
> in that I too wish that reverse_name would consult the
> Envelope-To/Delivered-To.  This includes this mutt list, where I
> have to manually change my default From: to my mutt-ML-specific
> address.  It's not overly taxing, but it's annoying to manually do
> what could be done automatically.

I agree that would be useful. That said, I usually handle the scenario
you describe this way:
send-hook '~C ^mutt-users@mutt\.org$' 'my_hdr From: Will Yardley 
'

w

Re: Regard Envelope-to: for alternates?

[Will Yardley]

On Mon, Sep 12, 2022 at 02:28:43PM +0200, Bastian wrote:
> On 12Sep22 14:24+0200, Bastian wrote:
> > Would it be feasible to also let the alternates scan the mail headers 
> > and find the header 'To-Envelope'?
> 
> Sorry, the header is labled Envelope-to:

I agree having some kind of ability to guess here might be a useful
feature for those using $alternates, $reverse_name, etc.

One issue is that I don't believe there is a standard for this per
rfc2076 etc.

You will see X-Apparently-To, `X-Envelope-To`, etc (or nothing)
depending on the MTA and other circumstances (for example, some versions
of some MTAs can't reliably assign this in the case where messages may
be BCCd to multiple recipients). Maybe someone could make an option to
include a header (set to null by default) whose value is examined for
help in determining what email the message was addressed to?

the procmailrc(5) man page (if you look for TO and TO_) has an
interesting list of the regex that it uses internally for more or less
this purpose.

w

Re: mutt, imaps and OAuth2

[Will Yardley]

On Thu, Aug 04, 2022 at 12:51:34PM +0200, Sébastien Hinderer wrote:
> Hello Francesco!

> > Have you considered enabling 2fa and then adding an application-specific
> > password?
> 
> I didn't realise this possibility was there, actually, many thanks for
> mentionning it!

Yeah, if you can use an application password, and if your org has IMAP
enabled, this is the easiest approach and the path of least resistence.

There's also the external Python script used for oauth2, if it hasn't
been mentioned elsewhere in the thread

https://gitlab.com/muttmua/mutt/-/blob/master/contrib/mutt_oauth2.py
https://gitlab.com/muttmua/mutt/-/blob/master/contrib/mutt_oauth2.py.README

IIRC, it will / can work w/ Gmail

/w

Re: [OT] fetchmail replacement supporting Oauth

[Will Yardley]

On Tue, May 03, 2022 at 03:18:20AM +0530, Bhaskar Chowdhury wrote:
> Will Yardley  writes:
> 
> > On Sun, May 01, 2022 at 02:17:40PM -0400, Ed Blackman wrote:
> >> 
> >> Google seems serious about disabling app passwords for good this time
> >> in favor of Oauth.
> >
> > Any links / docs / background on this?
> 
> Probably this : https://getmail6.org  

Sorry, I meant background on the assertion that Google was planning to
blanket disable application passwords.

I know a lot of _organizations_ have started (with both Office365 and
Gsuite) started disabling "legacy" (read: Internet standard) protocols
like IMAP, or making it more difficult to use without OAUTH / MFA login
support.

But did a quick search and hadn't found references to Google disabling
app passwords more broadly than that, so was just wondering where the OP
had read that (as it would likely affect many of us on this list)

w

Re: [OT] fetchmail replacement supporting Oauth

[Will Yardley]

On Sun, May 01, 2022 at 02:17:40PM -0400, Ed Blackman wrote:
> 
> Google seems serious about disabling app passwords for good this time
> in favor of Oauth.

Any links / docs / background on this?

w

Re: vs. / vs.

[Will Yardley]

On Thu, Mar 24, 2022 at 11:43:46AM +1100, raf wrote:
> On Wed, Mar 23, 2022 at 06:23:19PM -0400, Kurt Hackenberg  
> wrote:
 
> > Procmail is badly outdated,
> 
> I might be the only person that thinks this, but...
> 
> If it's still in use and still usable, it's not "outdated".
> It's just "stable". :-)

You're not the only one.

w

Re: Oauth with Microsoft authenticator

[Will Yardley]

On Mon, Nov 01, 2021 at 10:55:46AM +, lejeczek via Mutt-users wrote:
> 
> I'm fiddling with mutt first time and I'm trying to hook into Microsoft
> which I limited by my org - I cannot generate any app passwords.
> I wondered if it would work with/via "authenticator app" where MS generates
> "Account name" & "Secret key".

Good luck. I can say that, even in an org where they ended up letting me
create an "application", it still didn't work because they also had IMAP
disabled.

So you may want to check if your org has disabled legacy (read:
"Internet standard") protocols.

w

Re: display_filter and multipart mails

[Will Yardley]

On Mon, Oct 18, 2021 at 10:49:38PM +, mi...@posteo.nl wrote:

> I receive mails from someone using Content-Type: multipart/alternative
> with two parts. First: text/plain, second: text/html. The first part
> is always buggy (missing blanks and incorrect paragraphs). This is why
> in this case I like to display the second part.
> 
> It seems display_filter always receives the first part of an email.
> 
> How can I tell mutt to pass a certain part other than the first to
> display_filter?

I think you can set it in $alternative_order, e.g.,

alternative_order text/calendar text/plain text/enriched text/html test/*

So, in your case, you'd put text/html before text/plain

/w

Re: Automatic Key Search for email Sender?

[Will Yardley]

On Tue, Aug 31, 2021 at 05:13:45PM -0400, D.J.J. Ring, Jr. wrote:
> Is there a way to get mutt to automatically search for a gpg key for an
> email sender and put it in my keychain?

GPG can be configured to do this _if_ the key is on public keyservers

See:
https://gitlab.com/muttmua/mutt/-/wikis/MuttGuide/UseGPG#retrieval-of-keys-from-a-keyserver

Re: disable gpg in mutt

[Will Yardley]

On Thu, Aug 26, 2021 at 03:06:18PM +0200, Fourhundred Thecat wrote:
> 
> how can I completely disable gpg integration in mutt ?
> 
> If message happens to be encrypted, I would like mutt to simply show me
> the source (encrypted).
[...]
> I don't know how that happened. I am using gpg on the same account, but
> through Thunderbird client. I have Thunderbird set up locally on my
> laptop with gpg, and I am using mutt to read messages remotely on the
> server. That is why I don't want to use gpg in mutt, so that I don't
> have to type my password on the remote server.

Are these traditional PGP (ASCII armored), or MIME encoded messages?

Either way, I think first try checking the "fine" manual (muttrc(5)) for
"pgp_auto_decode", and see if that helps.

/w

Re: No Messages in Hotmail Inbox

[Will Yardley]

On Sat, Aug 14, 2021 at 09:10:25AM +1000, Cameron Simpson wrote:

> > I created my Hotmail account through mutt-wizard. Previously I
> > created Gmail and GMX accounts successfully. But this time I find no
> > messages in Hotmail Inbox, though I have thousands of emails in
> > Hotmail. Here are the steps I did.

> I'm assuming mutt-wizard and "mw" are from here:
> 
> https://muttwizard.com/
> https://github.com/LukeSmithxyz/mutt-wizard

Also, since mw requires neomutt, this is probably not the correct place
to ask for help.

/w

Re: Wordwrap of long lines

[Will Yardley]

On Tue, Aug 10, 2021 at 11:46:58AM -0400, David J. J. Ring, Jr. wrote:
> It seems I'm either getting emails with long lines now all of a sudden
> or I did something to my configuration.

As far as your outgoing messages (at least this one), they're showing up
with unwrapped lines, which is an editor configuration. As far as
handling messages received from others, the answer in the other response
should be correct (you could also look at the setting of $markers as
well as $wrap)

w

Re: Thank you for threading!

[Will Yardley]

On Tue, Jul 20, 2021 at 10:55:46AM -0400, Andrew D. Arenson wrote:
> I recently upgraded my work workstation from RHEL6 to Ubuntu 20.04, so
> was able to move from mutt 1.5.20 to 1.13.2 ... and now I have
> threading!

Threading has been part of Mutt since I can remember; maybe your default
config just changed?

/w

Re: mailing list config - two questions

[Will Yardley]

On Thu, Feb 25, 2021 at 05:46:04PM -0500, Jon LaBadie wrote:
> 
> When is it useful to have a mailing list to which
> you are not subscribed "known"?

IIRC, the original purpose was mostly to setup the (not ever ratified as
a real standard, and not commonly used now) mail-followup-to header
appropriately, that is, if you're subscribed and use "list-reply", the
mail-followup-to header gets set to just the list's address, whereas if
it's "known" only, it would set m-f-t to your email _and_ the list
address when you use "list-reply".

Since the draft, from what I can see, expired in 1998, and never became
a standard, one could make the argument that it's not really sensible
for Mutt to continue supporting it, but ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

w

Re: Choose 'From:' address based on 'To: address

[Will Yardley]

On Fri, Feb 26, 2021 at 08:55:45AM +1100, Cameron Simpson wrote:
> On 25Feb2021 09:56, Will Yardley  wrote:
> >On Thu, Feb 25, 2021 at 04:11:02PM +, Alexander Huemer wrote:

> >> Is there a configuration option to choose which 'From:' email address
> >> shall be used if a mail to a certain 'To:' address is composed? If a
> >> 'To:' address isn't in the mapping, then the 'set from' configuration
> >> setting should be the fallback.

> >I do something like this:
> >
> >set use_from
> >set from="lu...@example.net"
> >send-hook . 'unmy_hdr From:'
> >set reverse_name
> >alternates '(.*@example\.net|someuser@example\.com)'
> 
> reverse_name and alternates: this is only effective for personal email, 
> meaning email with one of your own addresses in the to/cc. Most mailing 
> lists do not do that, so there's no way to "reverse" from the to/cc to 
> the from of the reply.
> 
> You want Jon's send-hook based approach, setting from etc based on the 
> target address of the message you're composing.

Sorry, yes, I use that approach as well for lists - just in a different
section of my config

e.g.,

send-hook '~C ^mutt-users@mutt\.org$' 'my_hdr From: Will Yardley <...>'

w

Re: Choose 'From:' address based on 'To: address

[Will Yardley]

On Thu, Feb 25, 2021 at 04:11:02PM +, Alexander Huemer wrote:
> Is there a configuration option to choose which 'From:' email address 
> shall be used if a mail to a certain 'To:' address is composed? If a 
> 'To:' address isn't in the mapping, then the 'set from' configuration 
> setting should be the fallback.

I do something like this:

set use_from
set from="lu...@example.net"
send-hook . 'unmy_hdr From:'
set reverse_name
alternates '(.*@example\.net|someuser@example\.com)'

/w

Re: list messages with emojis in subject line? 

[Will Yardley]

On Fri, Feb 05, 2021 at 11:12:32AM -0800, Aleksandr Miroslav wrote:
> What filter can I use to only show messages that contain emojis in the
> subject line?
> 
> For me, these are almost always spam, so I would like to quickly
> filter them out.

Seems like that might be challenging - even if Mutt decodes the subject
first, I don't think it can look for specific ranges, and also, it seems
as if there's no specific set of ranges to filter.

https://stackoverflow.com/questions/30470079/emoji-value-range

It might be easier to make a character set of characters you do want,
and look for messages that contain at least one character that's not in
that set.

For example, for me, this seems to roughly work for most of the mail
that I see, except that it includes emails with Chinese characters in
the subject or an empty subject. But you might be able to dial that in
to something close to what you want.
!~s "[0-9a-z _! ]+"

I don't know if my system is misconfigured, but I don't actually see
emojis in the pager of mutt, though I do see them in vim if I edit a
message.

w

Re: not to set message id in outgoing email

[Will Yardley]

On Wed, Feb 03, 2021 at 06:33:37PM +0100, Claus Assmann wrote:
> On Wed, Feb 03, 2021, Will Yardley wrote:
> 
> > Even if Mutt doesn't set one, the first MTA it hits will add one. Not
 
> Not really - a MTA should not make such changes.
> A MSA should do it, but Message-Id: is a SHOULD not a MUST.

I stand corrected! Sorry about that.

(in practice, though, in the typical case where Mutt is using the
"sendmail" command of sendmail / postfix, it should add one, though,
right, since that's the MSA component? That's what seemed to happen in
my testing)

w

Re: not to set message id in outgoing email

[Will Yardley]

On Wed, Feb 03, 2021 at 08:57:32AM -0600, Peng Yu wrote:
> 
> When I use mutt to construct an outgoing email, is there a way not to
> set the message id? Thanks.

Even if Mutt doesn't set one, the first MTA it hits will add one. Not
setting one will also break threading. What exactly is your goal here?
And, as others have said, is the goal for the resulting message someone
receives to not have one (likely impossible), or just for Mutt to not
set one?

/w

Re: GMail SMTP: no authenticators available?

[Will Yardley]

On Wed, Jan 20, 2021 at 04:22:04PM -1000, Baron Fujimoto wrote:
> 
> The following in my muttrc was used successfully util this problem began:
> 
> set smtp_url = smtp://u...@example.org@smtp.gmail.com

Do you have smtp_authenticators (unset by default) set?

set smtp_url = "smtps://lu...@example.com@smtp.gmail.com"
set smtp_authenticators = 'gssapi:login'

Are you using an "app password"? Typically, you'll need to (at least I
did)
https://support.google.com/mail/answer/185833?hl=en-GB

If not, you may want to switch to one. If so, you may want to make sure
it's still active, and check to see if your organization changed any
policies that might be causing the issue, whether that's disabling
certain protocols, or enforcing MFA.

FWIW, when I was using gsuite with Mutt (for work), I would typically
have to auth once for IMAP and once for SMTP.

Good idea trying alternate ports, but you may also want to doublecheck
that your provider is not blocking or hijacking SMTP (and see what you
get using telnet and / or openssl s_client to connect to smtp.gmail.com
directly). Kevin's suggestion should also help show any issues along
those lines.

w

Re: Option to control top-posting in replies?

[Will Yardley]

On Thu, Dec 24, 2020 at 08:36:27PM +, ಚಿರಾಗ್ ನಟರಾಜ್ wrote:
> 
> I went through all of the config options (I think) and couldn't find
> an option for this, so I decided to ask on here.
> 
> I'd like to selectively prevent top-posting in Mutt. Mostly, that
> would mean changing the position of the signature to _below_ the
> quoted message rather than above it (as is usually the case).

What you describe should be Mutt's default behavior (sig_on_top,
defaulting to false):
http://www.mutt.org/doc/manual/#sig-on-top

w

Re: imap_pass == smtp_pass ?

[Will Yardley]

On Mon, Dec 14, 2020 at 09:29:26PM +, markol...@danwin1210.me wrote:
> On 201119-07:42-0500, Philippe Meunier wrote:
> > 
> > I use an IMAPS server for reading email and an STMPS server for sending
> > email.  Both servers use the same password, which I think is a fairly
> > common setup.
> > 
> > I know about imap_pass and smtp_pass but I don't want to write my password
> > in my .muttrc for security reasons (my $HOME is on an NFS partition, among
> > other things).
> > 
> > So is there a way to tell mutt something along the lines of: "prompt me
> > interactively for imap_pass when needed, but once you know imap_pass then
> > just re-use the same password for smtp_pass; and vice versa"?

> I'm not sure about the other replies you got, they are probably not as
> good as the following.
> 
> set imap_pass = "`gpg --batch -q --decrypt
> /home/$USER/.mutt/file_with_my_encrypted_pass`" ; 
> 
> in your .muttrc

Definitely +1ing the original post - would love to see this feature.
When I used Mutt with imap, I did not save my password in a file
(encrypted or not), and, especially when using a long app password for
gmail, would often have to enter it once when opening up mutt, and then
enter it again when sending mail.

Since it's very common for the two passwords to be the same for a given
account, it would be nice to be able to have mutt use a cleartext
password that it already has in memory.

I'm not sure how easy it would be at a nuts and bolts level to
implement, though, since one could have multiple imap / smtp servers
defined via hooks - there would have to be some kind of glue to tell
mutt "use the same password as this IMAP host for this SMTP host", so
this may be why a feature like this does not currently exist.

w

Re: Syntax for creating Muttrc.

[Will Yardley]

On Thu, Oct 01, 2020 at 09:58:17PM -0700, M.R.P. zensky wrote:

> Can someone tell me the syntax for creating a Muttrc file on linux? I
> have installed it on linux and am trying to understand how to
> configure it.

man 5 muttrc and / or looking at the sample one that should ship with
Mutt could be a start.

There's also some info at:
https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Mutt#Configuration

Or search online to find example configs to steal^Wborrow from.

/w

Re: IMAP authentication in one domain (my institution) and redirect to Gmail

[Will Yardley]

On Tue, Aug 11, 2020 at 10:01:43AM -0300, Marcelo Laia wrote:
> 
> There are some way to connect offlineimap and msmtp, and so on mutt, in
> this authentication way?

If you can create an "app password", it's relatively easy.
https://support.google.com/accounts/answer/185833?hl=en

If your org won't let you do this, you may need to use the external
hooks for OAUTH2 auth.

w

Re: Index screen - could it feature time segments?

[Will Yardley]

On Tue, Aug 04, 2020 at 12:26:01AM +0300, Leho Kraav wrote:
> On Mon, Aug 03, 2020 at 05:08:25PM -0400, Josef 'Jeff' Sipek wrote:

> > Alternatively, if you are accessing the mailboxes via IMAP, the server
> > software may have a fancier mechanism.  For example, Dovecot has virtual
> > folders.
> 
> I'm on Dovecot, and am already taking full advantage of virtual folders.
> 
> My virtual inbox is actually a "last 2 days" view, but I would *still*
> like to have a segmentation "Today", "Yesterday", etc within this mail index 
> screen.

Mutt also has the limit feature.

I know you're not interested in more comments from people saying that
this is not a feature they want to see in Mutt, but I think that what
you're asking for really isn't something that makes a lot of sense for
Mutt or how most Mutt users work.

w

Re: support for Office365?

[Will Yardley]

On Fri, Jun 26, 2020 at 02:20:25PM -0400, Andrew D. Arenson wrote:
> My organization is moving to Office365 and have decided, sadly, not to
> support IMAP.
> 
> Anyone have insight in how mutt might still be able to connect to
> Office365?

If app passwords are enabled, you can just do that
https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/office/create-an-app-password-for-microsoft-365-3e7c860f-bda4-4441-a618-b53953ee1183

If your org's policy doesn't support app passwords (which will get
phased out sometime in 2021, I think), there's no current option, but
see the recent threads on mutt-devel mailing list about Office365 and
XOAUTH2.

http://lists.mutt.org/pipermail/mutt-dev/Week-of-Mon-20190401/thread.html#291

There's been some recent work towards adding support for the less
preferred / older way that MS is supporting it:
http://lists.mutt.org/pipermail/mutt-dev/Week-of-Mon-20200615/000839.html

Doing this will require that this work be released, as well as the use
of an external script / tool.

w

Re: mutt for office 365 mfa

[Will Yardley]

On Wed, Jun 10, 2020 at 10:00:58PM -0400, Dave Botsch wrote:
> I haven't looked into it enough to know the difference between xoauth2 and
> oauthbearer.
> 
> Here is MS's blog post:
> https://developer.microsoft.com/en-us/office/blogs/announcing-oauth-2-0-support-for-imap-smtp-client-protocols-in-exchange-online

Yeah, as best I can tell, that's still using XOAUTH2 vs. OAUTHBEARER,
based on the examples / text in
https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/exchange/client-developer/legacy-protocols/how-to-authenticate-an-imap-pop-smtp-application-by-using-oauth

w

Re: mutt for office 365 mfa

[Will Yardley]

On Wed, Jun 10, 2020 at 08:32:13PM -0400, Dave Botsch wrote:

> that's been pushed off until 2021. Supposedly Office365 now support oauth2
> via imap/smtp/pop.

I think only by an older method, though (XOAUTH2 vs. OAUTHBEARER)

http://lists.mutt.org/pipermail/mutt-dev/Week-of-Mon-20200601/000827.html
and thread around <69f8180c-40de-b7b5-880b-0f0e9f99843c at scss.tcd.ie>

Not sure if my company will support the app password, but will check.

w

Re: mutt for office 365 mfa

[Will Yardley]

On Wed, Jun 10, 2020 at 10:54:00PM +0100, Sam Kuper wrote:
> On Wed, Jun 10, 2020 at 02:09:17PM -0400, Scott Brozell wrote:
> > The organization i work for has forced on us office 365 multi factor
> > authentication.  In addition to outlook duo they are supporting
> > evolution and have setup a tenant and application id for it.
> > Is it possible to use those with mutt ?
> 
> I don't have direct experience of this, but have you tried to set up an
> "App Password" (which seems to be a password for accessing a specific
> Office365 inbox over IMAP even when 2FA is enabled)?  See
> https://serverfault.com/a/950594

That's what I do with Gmail.

But...
https://developer.microsoft.com/en-us/office/blogs/end-of-support-for-basic-authentication-access-to-exchange-online-apis-for-office-365-customers/

So, I think that won't work after October.

w

any new progress on OAuth 2 / Office365 access

[Will Yardley]

Anyone have any tricks / tips for accessing Office365 via Mutt? I know
there have been a couple threads in the past has anyone gotten any
of the existing OAuth auth hooks to play nice with Office365, or written
any new tooling around it?

w

Re: NNTP ?

[Will Yardley]

On Tue, Nov 12, 2019 at 09:49:41PM +0100, Xavier Maillard wrote:
> 
> So, I just started my trip in the Mutt world. So far, I like it. Just
> a quickie: does mutt support NNTP as well ?

Without a patch, I don't think so.

I haven't had a usenet feed for a long time, but a lot of mutt users use
things like SLRN.

w

Re: Alternate html and text plain avoinding message like "your mailreader dont support html-mail"

[Will Yardley]

On Sun, Sep 08, 2019 at 11:18:08AM -0300, Marcelo Laia wrote:
 
> There are some alternative to tell mutt to read first text plain only
> if it is the full message? Ignoring text plain messages if it is short
> like "your mailreader don't support html message"?

I have seen this happen occasionally (even sometimes with a completely
empty text/plain part). But I don't think it's a reasonable idea to
expect mutt to be able to solve this kind of problem. Something like "if
the size delta between the two parts of the multipart/mixed message is >
N" would be pretty hard logic, and this would probably be the wrong
place to write such logic. You could probably write some kind of custom
helper program if you really needed to, but my guess is that simply
viewing the text/html part manually (as you mentioned) is going to be
the easier thing to do in these rare cases.

You could write the sender and suggest that they implement the
multipart/alternative messages correctly, or else just send text/html
only.

w

Re: marking a message as "read"

[Will Yardley]

On Fri, Sep 06, 2019 at 12:38:25PM -0400, Kurt Hackenberg wrote:
> On 2019-09-06 10:50, Kevin J. McCarthy wrote:
> 
> > Both "new" and "old" are "unread".  "read" means neither new nor old.
> 
> That sounds familiar. I think that goes back about 40 years, long before
> Mutt, to how spooling of incoming messages was implemented, and the
> introduction of the non-standard header Status:.
> 
> Messages that had never seen by a mail reader were "new". Those that had
> been seen by a mail reader but not by the user were "old". Those seen by the
> user were "read".
> 
> Does Mutt store this as a single state with three possible values? Clearly
> there's some logic on top of that. Also clearly, this is burdened with 40
> years of compatibility.

You can unset 'mark_old' if you don't want the behavior. I've personally
never found it super useful.

For Maildir, I believe messages will be marked old once they're out of
the 'new' directory.

w

Re: mailboxes - example

[Will Yardley]

On Fri, Jun 07, 2019 at 07:15:49AM -0700, Kevin J. McCarthy wrote:
> On Wed, May 15, 2019 at 01:07:28PM +, Dan Ciprus (dciprus) wrote:
> > Obviously all strings defined there are considered mailboxes even though
> > there is no maildir structure nor mailbox file.
> 
> Yes, that's exactly the problem.  The sidebar is a list of mailboxes; there
> is no concept of dividers.  I think the closest you could get would be to
> turn off the display of 0 for all of them using a conditional format string,
> like %?N%.

I haven't used the sidebar feature, but would using directories render
them sort of like the OP wanted?

foo/
  bar
  baz
bat/
  qyz

Re: NeoMutt 20170113 (1.7.2) (debian9) segfaults on readonly mbox

[Will Yardley]

On Thu, May 23, 2019 at 08:24:11AM +0200, Alexander Dahl wrote:
> On Thu, May 23, 2019 at 01:47:15PM +1000, m...@raf.org wrote:

> > This might not be the right place to report this but
> 
> Is the mutt mailing list the right place to discuss neomutt problems?
> (Serious question, I don't actually know.)

Short answer (not an official one, but just based on the discussion I've
seen), no.

w

Re: majordomo [Was: Send to a Listing]

[Will Yardley]

On Tue, Apr 23, 2019 at 07:52:46AM +1000, m...@raf.org wrote:
> Derek Martin wrote:

> > The whole point of suggesting majordomo is that (IIRC) it keeps the
> > recipients in a plain-text file, one address per line, making it
> > trivial to replace them by dropping in a file that had them in that
> > format in place of the existing file.  You can't do that with mailman
> > because it stores them in a db file.
> 
> Fair enough. I hadn't read the entire thread.

FWIW, while I haven't worked with Mailman in a while, you can either
directly interface with the Mailman Python libs pretty trivially, or use
~mailman/bin/list_members (from memory) to dump the list of recipients
to a file.

http://manpages.ubuntu.com/manpages/bionic/man8/list_members.8.html

w

Re: format=flowed

[Will Yardley]

On Wed, Dec 19, 2018 at 08:13:02AM -0500, John Hawkinson wrote:

> Only tangentially relevant, I spent a while trying to get
> format=flowed to work effectively a year or so ago and couldn't easily
> do so (perhaps I was testing against Gmail, I don't recall), and ended
> up just converting to sending messages with no line-breaks at all
> within each paragraph.
 
Yes.

I honestly think that without better editor integration, and / or some
way of validating that the content is actually formatted properly (or
post-editing formatting within Mutt), that it's not a good idea for Mutt
to support flowed text. Even when people are using the right options in
vim and doing everything else right, it seems very fragile and prone to
generating invalid flowed emails.

w

Re: Hide a message?

[Will Yardley]

On Fri, Dec 14, 2018 at 07:37:28AM -0600, Tim Chase wrote:
> On 2018-12-13 22:05, Patrick Shanahan wrote:
> > mbox still serves my needs and has never failed me.  why would I
> > want to invest time and effort to change to something (anything)
> > else?  maildir does not "work better" as I can see.
 
> Perhaps you're not putting strains on mbox that others have.  I've
> found that mbox works well in certain conditions:
> 
> 1) only one reader/writer (no other scripts/tools touching your mail
> store) on local file-systems
> 
> 2) particularly well if your mboxes are mostly append-only (it tends
> to perform worse and have more risk of data-loss if you're modifying
> messages in the middle).  The one-big-file-of-mail also compresses
> nicely if stored on a ZFS volume.
> 
> I have had mbox files break when on NFS shares and when multiple
> programs are writing to them (especially when removing messages from
> the middle of the file).  Sometimes I'm lucky and it's not grievous
> and I only lose a message or two or things get sheared removing the
> intra-message markers, putting one message at the end of a previous
> message.

mbox over NFS (especially old or improperly implemented NFS) can be an
issue.

However, with many filesystems, Maildir has its own set of
inefficiencies, especially for very large mailboxes. Tho there are
certain operations that are easier, because you just have to stat the
files to get the status of each message, vs. parsing a big file.

I use a combination of the two; for situations where I'm never using
IMAP and always sshing somewhere to read mail using Mutt, I do slightly
prefer mbox.

w

Re: [Mutt] Re: Group reply To-vs-Cc recipients

[Will Yardley]

On Tue, Dec 11, 2018 at 06:41:17PM -0800, Kevin J. McCarthy wrote:
> If you convert the mailing list concept to a group of "To" recipients
> instead, the same logic can apply.  A sends an email to B,C,D as a group
> conversation, "Where should we have lunch today".  B may respond to A's
> email, but her desire is to reply equally to all the other primary (to)
> recipients.  Her group-reply ought to put A,C,D in the To field.  This
> continues the indication that it's a group conversation whose primary
> recipients still include C and D.
> 
> I believe this pattern of conversation is more common now-a-days, and that
> it deserves support in the MUA.

I _think_ I understand what's being asked / suggested here. To me, it
seems mostly cosmetic (and adjustable if you're willing to move them
around in your editor).

I guess I kind of have to agree with the folks who think that this
doesn't really need to be configurable, and in fact, making it
configurable might cause more confusion than it solves?

w

Re: mutt 1.11.1 released

[Will Yardley]

On Tue, Dec 04, 2018 at 06:37:04PM -0800, Kevin J. McCarthy wrote:
> On Tue, Dec 04, 2018 at 04:20:02PM -0800, Will Yardley wrote:
> > On Tue, Dec 04, 2018 at 06:00:48PM -0600, Derek Martin wrote:

> > > > I'm pleased to announce the release of version 1.11.1 (the "A Chorus
> > > > Line" release).

> > > I'm amused by the release name...  Any reason for it?  Have other
> > > releases had fun names that I missed? =8^)

> > I think because it's a 'chorus line' of 1s...
> 
> Yes, it was meant to be a reference to the Broadway musical "A Chorus
> Line"'s melody "One".  :-)

Oh! I hadn't even thought about that part, I guess I was thinking of it
like a literal dancing chorus line of ones :P
 
> There haven't been other release names.  I just thought this one was special
> and deserved something.

At a previous job, we would make a name for every release of something
(where we'd have to make releases often). I got tired of this, so
made a shell call setting a variable to:

$(curl -s 
"https://makemeapassword.ligos.net/api/v1/passphrase/json?whenUp=StartOfWord=4=0;
 | jq  '.pws[0]')

which would generate a 4 word name for each release.
Less creative than coming up with a new name every time, but a lot
easier.

w

Re: mutt 1.11.1 released

[Will Yardley]

On Tue, Dec 04, 2018 at 06:00:48PM -0600, Derek Martin wrote:
> On Sat, Dec 01, 2018 at 01:22:24PM -0800, Kevin J. McCarthy wrote:

> > I'm pleased to announce the release of version 1.11.1 (the "A Chorus
> > Line" release).  Instructions for downloading are at
> > .
> 
> I'm amused by the release name...  Any reason for it?  Have other
> releases had fun names that I missed? =8^)

I think because it's a 'chorus line' of 1s...

w

Re: mailing list hook

[Will Yardley]

On Sun, Oct 07, 2018 at 09:58:31PM -0700, Ian Zimmerman wrote:
> On 2018-10-07 22:45, Ben Fitzgerald wrote:
> 
> > when I configure a list with "lists", list-reply knows to
> > reply to the mailing list. All great.
> 
> In fact the "lists" command is not relevant or necessary for this.  List
> reply simply selects the address in the List-Post header.  I remember I
> was confused about this too when I was learning mutt.

I think that's true in the case where the list adds rfc2369 headers.

However, it's still probably a good idea to configure lists / subscribe
either way.
 
w

Re: support of two factor authentication?

[Will Yardley]

On Wed, Jun 13, 2018 at 02:56:03PM +1000, m...@raf.org wrote:
> However, it should be pointed out that 2FA/MFA is mostly for
> websites. The IMAP/POP protocols have no support for it. It's
> unlikely that the POP/IMAP protocols will be changed to
> incorporate 2FA/MFA. And until that happens, I doubt there's
> much that mutt (or POP/IMAP servers) can do about it.

There is a recent patch to support OAUTH in Mutt (rfc 7628) (see
mutt-dev archives). With that, you'd need to visit a link to
authenticate when 2FA is required, and an external script is required,
but that I think would essentially add 2FA support, and also avoid the
need for an application specific password to be used.

See thread starting at:
http://lists.mutt.org/pipermail/mutt-dev/Week-of-Mon-20180611/000121.html
With some further discussion of the 2FA bit at:
http://lists.mutt.org/pipermail/mutt-dev/Week-of-Mon-20180611/000128.html

I'd imagine that, eventually, the external scripts used to do this could
support passing in the token via console vs. following a web link that
has to be clicked on or cut / pasted into browser bar.

w

Re: support of two factor authentication?

[Will Yardley]

On Tue, Jun 12, 2018 at 08:49:09AM -0400, José María Mateos wrote:
> On Mon, Jun 11, 2018 at 08:26:42PM -0700, Tom Fowle wrote:
> > As more isps and email providers require two factor authentication, I 
> > hope mutt will support this  security system!
> 
> Doesn't mutt already "support" this? I use Fastmail with 2FA enabled. 
> What I do then is to generate an app-specific password which is the one 
> I use in the mutt configuration. There's not much to support, it's just 
> a different password, unless there's something I'm not getting right.

I do this too, with Gsuite (for work).

But that's not really "supporting" 2FA auth; the provider is making a
way to bypass 2FA for convenience. I think if Mutt were actually
supporting it, there would be a way to have hooks to enter both password
and passphrase.

Because of the different auth schemes used for this (and presumably lack
of support in the IMAP protocol), I'm guessing it might be pretty
difficult to implement this.

w

Re: Bottom posting v top posting

[Will Yardley]

I'll be honest, I really don't spend a lot of time thinking about this
subject these days. It's rare that I need to spend much time on
technical mailing lists and USENET -- so much discussion has moved to
online forums, Slack communities, and so forth.

With friends, family, and work, I find that I use email less and less,
between text messaging, Slack, etc. While I still trim quoted material
and reply inline (even when using IOS's mail application vs. Mutt /vim),
I don't expect others to do so.

I do think it's fair to understand that, while for technical mailing
lists and newsgroups, our way of quoting is "correct", that the
conventions are very different in the business world, so it's not really
surprising that many people don't quote emails this way, or find it
confusing when others do. At some point, being prescriptive only takes
you so far; at this point, we are so far out of the majority that it's
not evey funny.

As far as the situation where someone else doesn't see that I even
replied, because of the amount of initial quoted material, that isn't a
situation that's really come up for me yet, but I could imagine it
happening.

w

Re: Mail-Followup-To (was Re: breaking long header lines into 2 (or more) lines)

[Will Yardley]

On Fri, Apr 27, 2018 at 08:57:50AM -0700, Kevin J. McCarthy wrote:
> 
> I always thought $followup_to was a pretty nice feature.  While I
> sympathize with Matthias, the mischief was the result of
> misconfiguration, and Mutt requires nothing if not attention to the
> documentation and configuration.
> 
> However, if there is a strong majority of mutt-users subscribers that
> agree with $followup_to defaulting to 'no', I'll make the change.

I think it's a nice idea too, but the draft (which expired 20 years ago)
never became a standard.

I'd argue that if one of Mutt's claims to fame is standards-compliance,
dropping support for it or not defaulting it to on might be the better
option.

w

Re: Mail-Followup-To (was Re: breaking long header lines into 2 (or more) lines)

[Will Yardley]

On Thu, Apr 26, 2018 at 06:38:54AM +0200, Matthias Apitz wrote:
> El día Wednesday, April 25, 2018 a las 08:23:37PM -0400, Patrick Shanahan 
> escribió:
> 
> > you might want to reconsider.  you said *you* didn't make the setting,
> > that "mutt" was to blame.  there really is no "blame".  one must make the
> > settings to do what they wish and you didn't bother and now try to divert
> > the responsibility.
> 
> Wrong. There a good and bad defaults. And the default for follow_up
> policy is just bad because it does, as you see in my case, things that
> the user newer wanted and not even was aware of.

If the user doesn't use 'lists' or 'subscribe' in the first place, I
think the MFT header should not get set. I do agree that it's slightly
confusing and took me a bit to understand the difference when I started
using Mutt, but I do think the onus is on the user to understand the
difference between 'lists' and 'subscribe'.

That said, I've made my feelings known about MFT itself earlier in this
thread.

w

Mail-Followup-To (was Re: breaking long header lines into 2 (or more) lines)

[Will Yardley]

On Wed, Apr 25, 2018 at 09:28:02AM -0700, Kevin J. McCarthy wrote:
> On Wed, Apr 25, 2018 at 05:56:43PM +0200, Matthias Apitz wrote:
> > On Wednesday, 25 April 2018 17:17:54 CEST, Patrick Shanahan
> > > which he did and does regularily:
> > >  "Mail-Followup-To: Matthias Apitz ,
> > >  mutt-users@mutt.org"
> > 
> > I do not set this in my mutt.
> 
> Try adding mutt-users to your 'subscribe' lists, instead of 'lists'.

Kind of thread drift, but I actually wonder if Mutt shouldn't move away
from Mail-Followup-To, as it never became a standard, and is not really
adopted by (m)any other commonly used mail clients.

w

Re: is it possible to auto-detect mailing list?

[Will Yardley]

On Sat, Apr 21, 2018 at 12:56:05AM +0200, Francesco Ariis wrote:
> On Fri, Apr 20, 2018 at 10:46:17PM +0800, Yubin Ruan wrote:

> > Most mailing lists emails have several sepecial headers, for example,
> > "Mailing-List" and "X-Mailing-List". Is it possible to mark those emails as
> > subscribed (as if we have used `subscribe l...@address.org' in .muttrc), 
> > such
> > that there is a 'L' flag showing up in the index?

> not a real answer unfortunately, but I guess the main reason this has
> not been implemented is because there are two commands in mutt,
> `subscribe` and plain `lists`, and deciding which-is-which cannot be
> done by simply checking the headers
> -F

Mutt does have some support for rfc2369 headers, though, IIRC. So if the
list has 'List-Post' or other headers, I believe you can list-reply
without having explicitly configured "subscribe" or "lists". 

w

Re: Mailing list status

[Will Yardley]

On Wed, Mar 14, 2018 at 09:27:06AM +0100, Sandro Santilli wrote:
> What I use for procmail (if anyone finds it useful):
> 
>   :0
>   * ^List-Post: .*mutt-users@mutt.org
>   .mutt-users/
> 
>   :0
>   * ^List-Post: .*mutt-us...@osuosl.org
>   .mutt-users/

Don't forget to escape your literal dots in procmail recipes, mutt\.org
vs. mutt.org.

   :0
   * ^List-Post: .*mutt-users@(osuosl|mutt)\.org
   .mutt-users/

In this case, above should work, consolidating into one recipe (you can
also use |\ to chain conditions vs. making it two condition).

w

Re: weird appearance of Chinese email in pager

[Will Yardley]

On Fri, Mar 09, 2018 at 09:31:21AM +0800, Yubin Ruan wrote:
> On Wed, Mar 07, 2018 at 05:15:23PM -0800, Will Yardley wrote:
> > Oh - I think I see what you're saying; if it's a single long string,
> > like:
> > 
> > 这是一个很长的句子这是一个很长的句子这是一个很长的句子这是一个很长的句子这是一个很长的句子这是一个很长的句子这是一个很长的句子这是一个很长的句子这是一个很长的句子这是一个很长的句子这是一个很长的句子这是一个很长的句子
> > 
> > Mutt can't infer any boundaries, and so doesn't wrap it?
> 
> Exactly.

Do you have $wrap set to a value, or to 0?

set wrap=72
works for me, however, you might then have problems with other things
breaking (long links, and such)

w

Re: weird appearance of Chinese email in pager

[Will Yardley]

On Wed, Mar 07, 2018 at 05:07:54PM -0800, Will Yardley wrote:
> On Fri, Mar 09, 2018 at 08:34:28AM +0800, Yubin Ruan wrote:
> > Hi, I am writing to ask if anyone have any solution for properly formating
> > mails in Chinese in the pager. I am using the builtin pager but it seems to
> > not be able to calculate the width of Chinese characters. It tend to take a
> > whole line of Chinese characters as just one unit, and when it is too long,
> > this whole line is shown in a second line, which make the appearance ugly:

> > 
> > ++
> > |这是一个例子,   |
> > |这是一个很长的句子这是一个很长的句子这是一个很长的句子这是一个很长的句子|
> > |这是一个很长的句子这是一个很长的句子这是一个很长的句子这是一个很长的句子|
> > |这是一个很长的句子这是一个很长的句子这是一个很长的句子这是一个很长的句子|
> 
> It renders Ok for me; I see 
> 这是一个
> at the beginning of each line.

Oh - I think I see what you're saying; if it's a single long string,
like:

这是一个很长的句子这是一个很长的句子这是一个很长的句子这是一个很长的句子这是一个很长的句子这是一个很长的句子这是一个很长的句子这是一个很长的句子这是一个很长的句子这是一个很长的句子这是一个很长的句子这是一个很长的句子

Mutt can't infer any boundaries, and so doesn't wrap it?

w

Re: weird appearance of Chinese email in pager

[Will Yardley]

On Fri, Mar 09, 2018 at 08:34:28AM +0800, Yubin Ruan wrote:
> Hi, I am writing to ask if anyone have any solution for properly formating
> mails in Chinese in the pager. I am using the builtin pager but it seems to
> not be able to calculate the width of Chinese characters. It tend to take a
> whole line of Chinese characters as just one unit, and when it is too long,
> this whole line is shown in a second line, which make the appearance ugly:
> 
> ++
> |这是一个例子,   |
> |这是一个很长的句子这是一个很长的句子这是一个很长的句子这是一个很长的句子|
> |这是一个很长的句子这是一个很长的句子这是一个很长的句子这是一个很长的句子|
> |这是一个很长的句子这是一个很长的句子这是一个很长的句子这是一个很长的句子|

It renders Ok for me; I see 
这是一个
at the beginning of each line.

Was your mutt built with 'enable-locales-fix'?

w

Re: attachments not shown

[Will Yardley]

On Fri, Feb 02, 2018 at 02:30:16PM +1100, Cameron Simpson wrote:
> On 02Feb2018 10:45, Yubin Ruan  wrote:

> > I got three attachments in a mail, as shown in the attachment view:
> > 
> >[multipart/alternative, 7bit, 97K]
> >[text/plain, quoted, utf-8, 9.2K]
> >[text/html, quoted, utf-8, 87K]
> 
> That's really 2 attachments. The text/plain and text/html parts are
> _enclosed by the multipart/alternative part, which exists to offer two or
> more choices which are meant to be equivalent.

Also, you can configure the order mutt displays them in, for example, I
have:
alternative_order text/calendar text/plain text/enriched text/html test/*


Sometimes it does screw me up if the text/plain and text/html parts of a
multipart/mixed messages aren't actually equivalent as they're supposed
to, and I end up missing part of an email because Mutt doesn't show it
to me based on my configured order.

w

Re: WIRED: ‘Mailsploit’ Lets Hackers Forge Perfect Email Spoofs (fwd)

[Will Yardley]

On Tue, Dec 05, 2017 at 05:35:45PM -0800, Ian Zimmerman wrote:
> > The attack uncovers bugs in how more than a dozen programs implement
> > email's creaky protocol. Read the full story
> 
> With such a tendentious title, I'm not sure I should take anything in
> the article seriously.  SMTP is a cleaner and more foolproof protocol
> (when correctly implemented) than most that came after it.

Also, it almost makes it sound as if it's able to spoof the actual headers
(i.e., the Received lines). In reality, it targets bugs in rendering the
>From line. I would say that it does create an email that would fool most
people...

I tried a couple of the more generic test attacks against Mutt and (as
expected), they didn't seem to fool it. I didn't try all 14 though.

w

Re: Mutt - Neomutt and Debian Stretch

[Will Yardley]

On Thu, Aug 03, 2017 at 10:26:25AM -0700, Kevin J. McCarthy wrote:
> On Wed, Jul 26, 2017 at 09:44:29AM -0700, Kevin J. McCarthy wrote:
> > So please submit your proposal, and I do expect something soon, but
> > don't expect my cooperation unless you are willing to ship something
> > _much_, _much_ closer to my upstream tarball.
> 
> As an update, I have filed bug 870635 in the Debian bug tracker.
> 

This whole thing strikes me as very odd. While I haven't used Debian or
Ubuntu in a work or personal capacity in quite some time, my first job
was a Debian shop, and this whole thing seems very uncharacteristic of
the principles of the Debian project. While Debian does often apply
a lot of patches to their packages, this seems a bit beyond that.

I hope an amicable resolution can be worked out, but I really think that
the package should be called 'neomutt', and that the 'mutt' package, if
any, should be based on the upstream source, and should more or less
expect as people expect "mutt" to work. Or, if they want to standardize
on distributing neomutt only, at least have a package redirection where
installing "mutt" lists "neomutt" as the replacement.

If there's anything "we" (on this list) can do to help support this
(i.e., a proposal that can be voted on), please do let us know.

w

Re: Nested Folders in Mutt?

[Will Yardley]

On Wed, Aug 02, 2017 at 08:37:40PM -0400, Justin R. Andrusk wrote:

> For keeping track of GTD-related tasks, I like to have a top-level
> folder called, 'GTD', with sub-folders underneath such as: 'TODO',
> 'PENDING', 'DELEGATE', and 'DONE'.
> 
> Is it possible to setup this nested folder structure within Mutt?

This depends on how you're accessing / storing your mail, and also
whether or not you need to have both mail and folders in the same folder
(i.e., whether GTD needs to have messages in it as well as other
folders).

If you are using IMAP, some of this will depend on the IMAP server
you're using and how it handles subfolders.

If you're using local mbox / Maildir / etc. mailboxes, then of course
you can create any directory structure you like for mail, however, I
don't think you can have messages in a directory called 'foo' as well as
a subfolder 'foo/bar' with most (all?) storage types.

The Maildir++ strategy lets you do this with 'foo' and 'foo.bar' as the
folder name, but this would only be supported over IMAP vs. local
Maildirs.

w

Re: In mutt how do you delete messages marked for deletion?... besides q

[Will Yardley]

On Wed, Jul 19, 2017 at 09:46:16PM +0200, Matthias Apitz wrote:
> El día miércoles, julio 19, 2017 a las 12:00:49p. m. -0700, Timothy Knox 
> escribió:

> > > With $ (reload folder) or c (change folder).
> > 
> > But see this counterpoint: ;-)
> > 
> > http://tdk.hates-software.com/2008/03/19/04b81324.html
> 
> I would not count this as a bug in mutt, but a feature. The real actual
> function of $ in index is 'save changes to mailbox' and if mutt detects
> that the mailbox was modified (due to incoming new mails), it can not do
> this.

I wonder if this is true in all cases; I would think that a sync
operation might be safe in the case of file per message formats like
Maildir, and possibly over IMAP as well?

I do not find this as much of a problem as the person who wrote the post
above. However, I have a few specific incidents where mail is flooding
in very fast, where it does become very difficult to successfully run


w

Re: what is the command of group-reply

[Will Yardley]

On Sat, May 06, 2017 at 07:49:49PM +0800, Yubin Ruan wrote:
> 
> Can anyone tell me what is the command of group-reply?
> Whenever replying a email with multiple `Cc' and recipents, I usually want to
> reply to all of them. This can be achieved by "Reply-to-all" in some mail
> clients. In Mutt, that is a single `g' in the pager.
> 
> But as I have binded 'g'  to another command, I have to bind the group-reply
> command to another key. How can I achieve that?

You can bind it to whatever key you want if you're not going to use the
default binding.

In hindsight, I wish I had rebound less stuff and just learned to use
Mutt's bindings when I first started. But as someone who had used Pine
for a while, I bound 'g' to cycle between mailboxes, and I use 'R' for
group reply. You could use capital G or whatever other binding is
convenient for you.

e.g.,
bind pager R group-reply
bind index R group-reply

w

Re: Quitting when messages tagged

[Will Yardley]

On Wed, Apr 12, 2017 at 01:12:05PM -0600, Charles Cazabon wrote:
> > > In short: an accidentally-doubled "q" keypress in the message view will
> > > quit mutt (I have exit set to the default of "yes"), even if I have a
> > > bunch of messages tagged in the folder view.
> > 
> > No there is no such setting.  I can only think of two workarounds, but you
> > may not like either.
> > 
> > First, you could try training yourself to use 'i' to exit the pager menu

I don't remember if this originally a Pine thing (probably), but I use
the following:

bind pager , exit
macro index , "?"
bind browser , toggle-mailboxes

For me, this gives me what I expect in any context by hitting ','.

Re: Tagging duplicates

[Will Yardley]

On Wed, Nov 09, 2016 at 12:13:00AM -0500, Jon LaBadie wrote:
> 
> I'm now using mutt on another system and the T~= sequence does not
> work and I can't see what I might have added to my .muttrc to make it
> work.
 
Do the messages show up as duplicates according to Mutt in the index?
Do they have identical message-ids?

Does ~= show up under "Simple Patterns" in muttrc(5)?

w

Re: [OT?] please do not tag messages as spam

[Will Yardley]

Steve says that he's made some adjustments.

Let's see if this resolves the subject tagging problem.

w

[SPAM?] Re: list-reply without Cc?

[Will Yardley]

On Tue, Aug 30, 2016 at 12:08:30PM +0200, Gabriel Philippe wrote:
> I don't know if this is relevant: the list is not a real list with
> appropriate headers, and most of the people use poorly-designed MUA
> (no Mail-Followup-To, etc.).

To be fair, Mail-Followup-To was never turned into a standard. You could
make a (convincing) argument that Mutt is incorrect for continuing to
use it, vs. that other MUAs are wrong for not using / following it.

It's a draft from 1997 that expired in 1998, and I don't think was ever
ratified as standards-track or as a standard.

w

[SPAM?] Re: mutt 1.7.0 released

[Will Yardley]

On Fri, Aug 19, 2016 at 09:46:52AM -0700, Kevin J. McCarthy wrote:
> On Fri, Aug 19, 2016 at 04:45:20PM +1000, Erik Christiansen wrote:
> > Many thanks for your effort to keep us flea-free.
> > This time I do plan to upgrade.
> 
> My pleasure.  :-)
> 
> 1.7.0 had a bit more internal changes than usual, so it could be a few
> fleas snuck in.  As always, I appreciate feedback and bug reports.

Very excited to see this! I had been putting off testing the new changes
for a bit, and pleased to report that everything is working great so
far, including trash folder without having to apply a patch.

Many thanks for your efforts.

w

[SPAM?] updated trash folder patch?

[Will Yardley]

Does anyone have versions of Cedric Duval's trash folder patch (or
similar) updated for >= 1.6.1 yet?

w

[SPAM?] Re: [SPAM?] Re: no MUTTRC environment variable?

[Will Yardley]

On Sat, Jul 02, 2016 at 08:13:55PM -0400, Xu Wang wrote:
> On Thu, Jun 30, 2016 at 9:10 PM, Will Yardley
> <mutt-us...@veggiechinese.net> wrote:
> > On Thu, Jun 30, 2016 at 08:02:38PM -0400, Xu Wang wrote:

> >> I have read the environment variables section in 'man mutt' and there
> >> does not seem to be a MUTTRC environment variable. One can set using
> >> -F option but sometime environment variable is nice.
> >
> > What kind of uses did you have in mind?
> >
> > You can use environment variables in config files, so you can always
> > work around this for most of the use cases I can think of by having
> >
> > source ~/.muttrc-$FOO
> > in ~/.muttrc, and then define $FOO.

> For me it is not ideal because when I execute
> source ~/.muttrc-$FOO
> then the rest of the .muttrc is still processed. I would like to
> process only ~/.muttrc-$FOO.
> I hope that has sense.

I get what you're saying. But if I'm understanding what you're trying to
do, you should be able to have .muttrc *only* contain:

source ~/.muttrc-$FOO

that is, it would be a meta-muttrc. You can still source other files
from .muttrc-$FOO.

w

[SPAM?] Re: no MUTTRC environment variable?

[Will Yardley]

On Thu, Jun 30, 2016 at 08:02:38PM -0400, Xu Wang wrote:
> 
> I have read the environment variables section in 'man mutt' and there
> does not seem to be a MUTTRC environment variable. One can set using
> -F option but sometime environment variable is nice.
> 
> Can someone confirm this is correct? Is there a reason for this?

What kind of uses did you have in mind?

You can use environment variables in config files, so you can always
work around this for most of the use cases I can think of by having

source ~/.muttrc-$FOO
in ~/.muttrc, and then define $FOO.

w

[SPAM?] Re: BAD signature: mutt, signer, something else?

[Will Yardley]

On Mon, Jun 27, 2016 at 10:48:54AM -0700, Claus Assmann wrote:
> mutt/gpg gives me a "BAD signature" for some recent mails on the
> openssl users list, one example message is attached. Can someone
> else reproduce the problem (the author says it verifies for him)?
> If the signature verifies for you, which mutt / gpg version do you
> use? (and any hints what might be broken in my setup?)
> 
> Mutt 1.5.24+24 (4de4b3635140) (2015-08-30)
> gpg (GnuPG) 1.4.19

Does it verify when he receives a copy from the list?

I saved the signature and text part of the email separately, and also
get bad signature with gpg2 via commandline (and no extra info that
might explain it).

So wondering if the list manager software is just mangling part of the
message or something.

aura% gpg --version
gpg (GnuPG) 2.1.11
libgcrypt 1.6.5
Copyright (C) 2016 Free Software Foundation, Inc.
License GPLv3+: GNU GPL version 3 or later

This is free software: you are free to change and redistribute it.
There is NO WARRANTY, to the extent permitted by law.

Home: ~/.gnupg
Supported algorithms:
Pubkey: RSA, ELG, DSA, ECDH, ECDSA, EDDSA
Cipher: IDEA, 3DES, CAST5, BLOWFISH, AES, AES192, AES256, TWOFISH,
CAMELLIA128, CAMELLIA192, CAMELLIA256
Hash: SHA1, RIPEMD160, SHA256, SHA384, SHA512, SHA224
Compression: Uncompressed, ZIP, ZLIB, BZIP2

aura% gpg --verify mc1.txt.asc
gpg: assuming signed data in 'mc1.txt'
gpg: Signature made Mon Jun 27 01:21:55 2016 PDT using RSA key ID 0E604491
gpg: BAD signature from "Matt Caswell " [unknown]

aura% gpg -kv 0x0E604491
gpg: using PGP trust model
pub   rsa2048/0E604491 2013-04-30 [SC]
uid [ unknown] Matt Caswell 
uid [ unknown] Matt Caswell 
sub   rsa2048/E3C21B70 2013-04-30 [E]

aura% sha256 mc1.txt
SHA256 (mc1.txt) =
4801ffad1605f599baba0b93b51048b8569c2459764eebafb4fff38ee5a97080

Re: Can one do something to an E-Mail without even opening/seeing it in mutt?

[Will Yardley]

On Tue, May 17, 2016 at 11:07:26AM +0100, Chris Green wrote:
> The muttrc configuration also automatically uses the above
> configuration file to set the 'lists', 'subscribe' and 'mailboxes'
> entries.  It's this that tools like procmail (and sieve?) can't do.

One way I've dealt with the 'mailboxes' thing is to use Procmail rules
to deliver list mail to lists/foo, and then just have a 'mailboxes
lists/*', though of course this doesn't let you define the order they're
cycled through in.

If the rfc2369 headers are present, I think the other two are taken care
of.

w

Re: From: oddity

[Will Yardley]

On Fri, May 13, 2016 at 12:36:09PM -0400, Jon LaBadie wrote:
> 
> I received an email sent to a group of about 10 family and friends.
> Their addresses are all in the "To:" list, no "Cc:" list.  When I
> reply to the message, with either "g" to reply to the group or "r" to
> reply to just the sender, the From: line of the message is set to
> someone other than me.  The replyer set to one of the other addresses
> in the list (happens to be the 3rd one, I'm 6th).

Do you have $reverse_name set, and how is $alternates configured?

w

Re: group mailings with blind cc

[Will Yardley]

On Sat, Apr 16, 2016 at 09:30:14AM +1000, Brian Salter-Duke wrote:
> On Fri, Apr 15, 2016 at 04:13:47PM -0400, Jon LaBadie wrote:
> > On Fri, Apr 15, 2016 at 09:48:26PM +0200, Alarig Le Lay wrote:
> > > On Fri Apr 15 14:40:27 2016, Jon LaBadie wrote:

> > > > I'm trying to set up a way to send periodic notices
> > > > to a list of people with the restriction that the
> > > > recipients email addresses not be generally visible,
> > > > thus they would be listed in the Bcc: header.
> > > 
> > > Why do you don’t set up a mailing list? That’s their aim.

> > Not enough traffic.  I wouldn't expect more than
> > 1 or 2 messages a year.  Like meet times change
> > in the summer, revert in fall.

> How large is the list. If it is not too large, just make a group alias
> in your alias file and send the message putting that alias in the Bcc line.
> I do that for about 30 or 40 people.

What I've done sometimes is to just write the message in a text file,
and put the recipients in another text file, then use mutt (or mailx) to
send one at a time; this way the recipient's address only is in the To:
line.

w

Re: How do you survive without notmuch?

[Will Yardley]

On Wed, Apr 13, 2016 at 04:20:09PM -0500, Derek Martin wrote:
> On Wed, Apr 13, 2016 at 08:05:52PM +1000, Erik Christiansen wrote:
> > On 12.04.16 13:05, Derek Martin wrote:
> > > On Tue, Apr 12, 2016 at 05:28:08PM +1000, Erik Christiansen wrote:

> > > > The really big benefit of the Unix approach is that the same
> > > > utility know-how can be applied to every problem, as it is only
> > > > the mix of utilities used, and their parameters, which vary. 

> > > The downside is that typical users don't want to learn all those
> > > tools, and by and large have no reason to.  They use the web and
> > > e-mail, and very little else.
 
> If your software can save your user base gobs of configuration time
> and learning curve, and simplify your tasks with a uniform, consistent
> interface, how is that EVER a bad thing?  Is that not actually the
> entire point of software?  Frankly, I know a number of people who have
> moved on from Mutt cheifly because they were dissatisfied with its
> search capabilities.  And these are system programmers and
> sysadmins--hardly the typical user.  So clearly, just because it works
> for YOU, doesn't mean it should be sufficient for everyone.
> 
> The Unix Philosophy is a wonderful generalized solution, but it's well
> understood that a specialized solution CAN be more efficient, and
> provide additional usability and other benefits as well.

I do agree with this, for the most part. While Mutt is definitely a
project that appeals to techy sorts, and while the "building blocks"
approach has a lot of benefits, there are times where the lack of tight
integration becomes a problem. With search, especially, I think that's
the case. I tried to setup Mairix with Mutt a long time ago, and found
that it was way too kludgy to really be useful in the same way that the
search in most GUI MUAs is.

As mentioned before, using grep or Mutt's single mailbox search tends to
work well for me in most cases, I also occasionally use my iPhone to
search mail. Being able to do searches across all mailboxes directly
within Mutt (ideally with some subset of the 'simple patterns'),
especially over IMAP, would probably be a useful feature to many.

I'm not as much worried about bloat, especially if it's an optional
feature, but it seems like something that would be fairly difficult to
implement in a way that is both fast and useful.

For me, the bigger areas where I find Mutt limiting are things like
responding to Exchange / Gcal invites (though mostly just use Apple
products for this now), not being able to view images inline, etc. Given
how much less email is used these days (relative to text message,
Facebook messaging, online forums / FB groups, Slack, etc.), the emails
I *do* still get tend to be weighted more heavily in this direction than
they used to be. That said, I still much prefer Mutt over GUI MUAs.

w

Re: How do you survive without notmuch?

[Will Yardley]

On Thu, Apr 07, 2016 at 08:10:13PM -0400, Fred Smith wrote:
> 
> well, to answer the OP, I've never before heard of notmuch, so I've
> never missed it!

At least notmuch

w

Re: How do you survive without notmuch?

[Will Yardley]

On Tue, Apr 05, 2016 at 12:47:03PM -0400, Xu Wang wrote:
> 
> I am so used to using notmuch integrated into mutt (via mutt-kz), that
> I would like to be able to understand how someone does *not* use
> notmuch. How do you search for a certain message? Is it simply a
> matter of the following?
> 
> 1. remember which folder it is in
> 2. change to that folder
> 3. use mutt's search

I organize my stuff such that I usually know where things are. If that
fails, I just use grep.

w

Re: How to send a pre-written full email with mutt's built-in smtp

[Will Yardley]

On Sat, Apr 02, 2016 at 10:18:28PM +0100, Larry Hynes wrote:
> Sat 02 Apr 2016 15:23 (-0400) Xu Wang <xuwang...@gmail.com>:
> > On Sat, Apr 2, 2016 at 2:39 PM, Larry Hynes <la...@larryhynes.com> wrote:
> > > Sat 02 Apr 2016 12:02 (-0400) Xu Wang <xuwang...@gmail.com>:
> > > > On Sat, Apr 2, 2016 at 2:23 AM, Will Yardley 
> > > > <mutt-us...@veggiechinese.net> wrote:
> > > > > On Sat, Apr 02, 2016 at 01:19:12AM -0400, Xu Wang wrote:

> > > > > > Suppose that I have a full email (i.e. with headers and everything).
> > > > > > e.g. I want to keep the message ID the same. How can I used mutt's
> > > > > > build-in smtp to send the email? Basically i want mutt to just send
> > > > > > the email that is already written and not change any header.

> > > > > You can use 'bounce-message' (I think b with default bindings) to
> > > > > redirect the message to one or more recipients, though Mutt will add a
> > > > > few headers, most starting with 'Resent-' (Message-ID will stay the
> > > > > same).
> > > > > 
> > > > > You can use 'resend-message' (esc-e) to use the current message as a
> > > > > template for the new one, but Message-ID will change.

> > > > Thank you, Will. is there any way to send from command-line?

> > > Have you tried using mutt's '-H' option? e.g. `mutt -H draftfile`

> > That is great but I would like automation. I would like something like
> > mutt -s "Test from mutt" exam...@notsure.com < email_file
> > but something that works with just
> > mutt < email_file
> > and nothing else (because the subject and email address are already 
> > specified).

> echo | mutt -H email_file

This works (as does mutt -H - < email_file), but in my test, the
Message-ID is set by mutt, not from header input. So I think -H only
takes the headers that can be edited when $edit_headers is set.

So finding a way to use the  command without requiring
interaction, or just using Sendmail or similar is the best bet based on
your original request.

w

Re: How to send a pre-written full email with mutt's built-in smtp

[Will Yardley]

On Sat, Apr 02, 2016 at 01:19:12AM -0400, Xu Wang wrote:
> 
> Suppose that I have a full email (i.e. with headers and everything).
> e.g. I want to keep the message ID the same. How can I used mutt's
> build-in smtp to send the email? Basically i want mutt to just send
> the email that is already written and not change any header.

You can use 'bounce-message' (I think b with default bindings) to
redirect the message to one or more recipients, though Mutt will add a
few headers, most starting with 'Resent-' (Message-ID will stay the
same).

You can use 'resend-message' (esc-e) to use the current message as a
template for the new one, but Message-ID will change.

w

Re: omit empty mailboxes from list

[Will Yardley]

On Fri, Mar 25, 2016 at 11:12:34PM +, Christian Ebert wrote:
> 
> May not be exactly what you want, but are you aware of the
> next-unread-mailbox command?

Hah, does the same thing as the macro I posted that I have been using
forever always something new to learn.

w

Re: omit empty mailboxes from list

[Will Yardley]

On Fri, Mar 25, 2016 at 02:36:17PM -0400, Jon LaBadie wrote:
> So my mail reading consists of starting and quitting mutt many times
> as I switch among the mailboxes.
> 
> Recently I've been trying to adapt to using the "y" mutt command to
> list my mailboxes and select the one I want to read next.
> Unfortunately the mailbox list includes the empty ones as well as ones
> with readable mail.  Is there a way to eliminate the empty files from
> the list prepared by the "y" command?

If you define mailboxes that you expect *incoming* mail in via
'mailboxes' (e.g., mailboxes +foo, or mailboxes +foo*), 'change-folder'
(bound to c by default, I believe), will cycle through mailboxes with
new mail in the order they're defined. Or, if you do
=, tab should switch between a view of all mailboxes
and a list of mailboxes with new mail (with the count of new messages on
them).

macro index g "\r"
macro pager g "\r"

You can also do =f to complete to mailboxes starting
with 'f', or =foo to go to the mailbox 'foo'.

HTH.

w

Re: mutt-1.5.23_9 && gnupg-2.1.6

[Will Yardley]

On Wed, Mar 02, 2016 at 03:17:25PM -0800, Kevin J. McCarthy wrote:
> On Tue, Feb 16, 2016 at 11:43:16PM -0800, Will Yardley wrote:
> > On Tue, Feb 16, 2016 at 04:32:34PM -0800, Kevin J. McCarthy wrote:
> > > On Mon, Feb 15, 2016 at 10:35:35PM -0800, Will Yardley wrote:

> > > > Additionally, after this problem comes up, the up arrow in the 'limit'
> > > > pattern doesn't work (I get, e.g., [A for up-arrow), though I can still
> > > > type in there Ok.
> > > 
> > > Just to help me track this: do you have $pgp_auto_decode set, or are you
> > > typing Esc-P inside the pager?  It sounds like we need to trigger a hard
> > > redraw (which also turns keypad back on) on whatever path this is
> > > following.

> > I don't have $pgp_auto_decode set, but because the messages were created
> > via mutt (with older GPG and $pgp_create_traditional), there's an
> > x-header, so I don't have to explicitly hit esc-p.

> After tracing through, it does turn out the GPGME code was missing a
> hard redraw call for application/pgp handling.  I've added this and
> pushed it up.  It should take care of the artifact and keyboard issues.
> Please let me know if it does not.

Thanks so much for the hard work on this. Minor issues, I know, but
they've been driving me nuts since I switched to GPG 2 / gpgme.

w

Re: hide Bcc und Cc while using AutoEdit

[Will Yardley]

On Tue, Mar 01, 2016 at 05:12:48PM +1100, Erik Christiansen wrote:
> On 29.02.16 08:49, Patrick Shanahan wrote:
> > * muel...@biologie.uni-osnabrueck.de  
> > [02-29-16 06:41]:
> > >   I like to use autoedit but I want to hide the fields Cc: und Bcc:
> > >   
> > >   are there some hints for me?
> > 
> > Look in ~/.muttrc or the fine manual for ignore.
> 
> That is what I thought to advise the OP, last night, but find that
> edit_headers still displays Bcc:, even though I have:
> 
> ignore *
> unignore  In-reply-to References Reply-To cc To From Organization Date Subject
> hdr_order In-reply-to References Reply-To cc To From Organization Date Subject
> 
> I.e. The ignore, specified in the manual to work in the pager, and not
> explicitly anywhere else, is not effective for an edit_headers session,
> AFAICT.

I don't think you can change the headers that show up in the editor when
$edit_headers is set.

w

imap disconnections with office365

[Will Yardley]

I am using Mutt with Office365, and get a ton of annoying
disconnections, either with short periods of idle time, as in the log
below, or sometimes even while doing sync operations. 
 
The relevant parts of my config are:
set folder="imaps://outlook.office365.com"
set spoolfile= +INBOX
set postponed= +Drafts
set record= +"Sent Items"
set trash= "Deleted Items"
set trash= "Deleted Items"
# See if this helps with timeouts
set imap_keepalive=900

I have 'mailboxes !' in my .muttrc; even though '!' is shortcut for 
inbox in Mutt, it's not an actual valid IMAP name, is it? Is mutt 
literally doing a status on '!' here?

[2016-02-26 16:50:48] 6> a0042 STATUS "!" (UIDNEXT UIDVALIDITY UNSEEN RECENT)
a0043 STATUS "hadoop" (UIDNEXT UIDVALIDITY UNSEEN RECENT)
[2016-02-26 16:50:48] 6< a0042 NO ! doesn't exist.

Right after, my mutt debug log has this:

[2016-02-26 16:50:48] SSL error: error:0B07C065:x509 certificate 
routines:X509_STORE_add_cert:cert already in hash table
[2016-02-26 16:50:48] Connection to outlook.office365.com closed
[2016-02-26 16:50:50] imap_cmd_step: Error reading server response.
[2016-02-26 16:50:50] Mailbox closed
[2016-02-26 16:50:51] mx_check_mailbox: null or invalid context.
[2016-02-26 16:50:51] mutt_num_postponed: using old IMAP postponed count.

>From searching online, it seems like this may be a problem others have
experienced (https://github.com/ork/mutt-office365/issues/6)