It'd
be cheaper to move the entire carrier hotel to the safe area and forget
having offsite power.
Exactly!
If you are going to solve the redundant services problem (power and
cooling) with some kind of regional power and cooling network, then it
makes sense to cluster the various
http://www.nytimes.com/2002/11/19/nyregion/19FUEL.html
...
While almost everyone on this list knows which building is the subject
of the article, we can discuss the issue without discussing the
particular building.
On-site fuel storage is one of those double-edge swords.
The article is
On Tue 19 Nov 2002 (07:12 -0500), Johannes Ullrich wrote:
http://www.nytimes.com/2002/11/19/nyregion/19FUEL.html
...
While almost everyone on this list knows which building is the subject
of the article, we can discuss the issue without discussing the
particular building.
On-site
Not sure what they would gain by converting to fuel cells as the article
suggests. They probably would still require onsite storage for their
hydrogen source in order to insure uniterupted supply, either hydrogen,
lng, natural gas or propane. what's better in a fire, a heating oil tank
or a
... what's better in a fire?
a decent oxider, mixed with fuel.
Not sure what they would gain by converting to fuel cells as the article
suggests. They probably would still require onsite storage for their
hydrogen source in order to insure uniterupted supply, either hydrogen,
Not sure what they would gain by converting to fuel cells as the article
suggests. They probably would still require onsite storage for their
hydrogen source in order to insure uniterupted supply, either hydrogen,
lng, natural gas or propane. what's better in a fire, a heating oil tank
Thus spake Johannes Ullrich [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.nytimes.com/2002/11/19/nyregion/19FUEL.html
...
While almost everyone on this list knows which building is the subject
of the article, we can discuss the issue without discussing the
particular building.
On-site fuel storage is
On-site fuel storage is one of those double-edge swords. Without on-site
fuel there are several ordinary disasters which would be worsened if
the telecommunications infrastructure went dark. For example, during ice
stores, hurricanes, etc we want telecom facilities to stay up for one,
two
or
Even if you assume
100% efficiency, the tank is still going to me, um, rather largish.
That's what happens if you forget a ';-)' ...
;-)
--
[EMAIL PROTECTED] Collaborative Intrusion Detection
Thus spake Johannes Ullrich [EMAIL PROTECTED]
The article is comparing the relatively 'inert' diesel fuel to
the aircraft fuel that caused the devastation at the WTC.
Did the authors of this article ever hear about heating oil tanks?
Unnamed Administration sources reported that Stephen
On Tue, 19 Nov 2002, Sean Donelan wrote:
On-site fuel storage is one of those double-edge swords. Without on-site
fuel there are several ordinary disasters which would be worsened if
the telecommunications infrastructure went dark. For example, during ice
stores, hurricanes, etc we want
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: MD5
Hello Charles,
Tuesday, November 19, 2002, 11:36:28 AM, you wrote:
CS These guys have an idea:
CS http://www.solarhost.com/
Sorry, it is still only a single power source and eventually the Sun
is going to burn out. If they want my business I
Title: RE: Even the New York Times withholds the address
The page loaded pretty slow. Must be cloudy today.
Daryl G. Jurbala
Sr. Network Engineer
WorldNet Technology Consultants, Inc.
Tel: +1.610.288.6200
FAX: +1.508.526.8500
http://www.wtci.net
Diesel can even exstinguish flame in some cases. It is a much different
anamal than aircraft fuel.
There are concerns yes but not a good compairison.
On Tue, 19 Nov 2002, Johannes Ullrich wrote:
http://www.nytimes.com/2002/11/19/nyregion/19FUEL.html
...
While almost everyone on this
-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of
Scott Granados
Sent: Tuesday, November 19, 2002 9:28 AM
To: Johannes Ullrich
Cc: Sean Donelan; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Even the New York Times withholds the address
Diesel can even exstinguish flame in some cases
Title: RE: WAS: Even the New York Times withholds the address
IIRC, the tanker used to refuel the SR-71 Blackbird had separate tanks for JP-4 (for itself) and JP-3 (for the Blackbird)...
James H. Smith
ex-SAC KC-135 fixer-upper
-Original Message-
From: Al Rowland [mailto:[EMAIL
On Tue, 19 Nov 2002, Scott Granados wrote:
Diesel can even exstinguish flame in some cases. It is a much different
anamal than aircraft fuel.
http://www.ameriburn.org/Preven/Educator's%20Guide.pdf is a nice
document describing the different properties of different fuels. I quote
some from
at Tuesday, November 19, 2002 6:43 PM, blitz [EMAIL PROTECTED] was
seen to say:
One last addition to this idiotic water idea.. since the water
doesn't get up there to the reservoir on the roof by itself, add your
costs of huge pumps, plus the cost of pumping it up there, and a less
than 100%
Don't laugh too hard at this stored energy idea...
We back up ~2500 Kva with a -=Flywheel=- System!
(And Generator)
CAT-UPS, don't leave home without it. :)
Yesterday's Ludicrous Fiction is Tomorrow's Reality!
blitz wrote:
One last addition to this idiotic water idea.. since the water
This is a good example of an area where governments can intervene and do
some good.
Ugh..I contend they never improve a situation, only make it worse.
1. Local governments can prohibit fuel storage and generators at telecom
sites.
Telecom/Datacom sites would leave. period. You would be
Thus spake blitz [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Fuel cells, run on natural gas are the best idea I've heard to date, and
the safest if you're confined to upper floors, but youre talking BIG $$$
here...whats wrong with batteries, a natural gas genny and a converter
system, telco style? If this is all about
Thus spake blitz [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Right now, people put the generators and the fuel in the same building
because it is virtually impossible to install your own neighborhood power
cabling. But there are few disaster scenarios in which a PoP would be
undamaged at the same time as the nearby
On Tue, 19 Nov 2002, Richard Irving wrote:
Don't laugh too hard at this stored energy idea...
We back up ~2500 Kva with a -=Flywheel=- System!
(And Generator)
CAT-UPS, don't leave home without it. :)
Unless of course, the flywheel leaves your home when the bearings sieze.
--
Before we get too, too, smug about this if you view the Manhattan
skyline, particularly downtown (e.g., SOHO/Tribeca) you'll see
house-sized water tanks on many, many buildings, particularly 3-10
story older buildings. I assume due to inadequate water pressure but I
honestly don't know why
P.S. What if the colo facility offered built-in water chillers
for cooling
with all the water piped downhill, down the block to a cooling tower?
Would this be better or safer than existing systems? Could it possibly be
built this way without municipal government involvement?
Some
On Tue, 19 Nov 2002, Deepak Jain wrote:
Some facilities (Terremark comes to mind) offer chilled water from the local
power company so you don't need to have your own chillers. What is the fault
tolerance requirement for a power-company chiller plant though?
We use chilled water (4-8 C) with
Just to keep it off-topic :) The kinetic water-based accumulating
stations actually do exist, though they use elevated reservoirs to store
the water. The water is pumped up during off-peak hours, and then
electricity is generated during peaks. This is not common, though,
because most energy
On Tue, 19 Nov 2002 16:54:21 EST, Barry Shein said:
Before we get too, too, smug about this if you view the Manhattan
skyline, particularly downtown (e.g., SOHO/Tribeca) you'll see
house-sized water tanks on many, many buildings, particularly 3-10
story older buildings. I assume due to
: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of
Vadim Antonov
Sent: Tuesday, November 19, 2002 5:15 PM
To: blitz
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Even the New York Times withholds the address
Just to keep it off-topic :) The kinetic water-based accumulating
stations actually do
Barry Shein wrote:
Before we get too, too, smug about this if you view the Manhattan
skyline, particularly downtown (e.g., SOHO/Tribeca) you'll see
house-sized water tanks on many, many buildings, particularly 3-10
story older buildings. I assume due to inadequate water pressure but I
honestly
Diesel can even exstinguish flame in some cases. It is a much different
anamal than aircraft fuel.
There is no single thing as aircraft fuel. Commercial jet aircraft are usually
fueled
with Jet A1 which has a flashpoint of 38´C (100´F). So it does not take that
much
to get it going. For
A steam-generating plant I once toured (another story) used number _six_
fuel oil. I asked, Is that the stuff that comes in blocks? I thought I
was being funny. The reply: it's delivered and kept hot in an underground
tank, else it starts to get kind of glassy.
Might be just the thing.
--On Tuesday, November 19, 2002 13:43 -0500 blitz [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
Fuel cells, run on natural gas are the best idea I've heard to date, and
the safest if you're confined to upper floors, but youre talking BIG $$$
^^
here...
Except in
:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of
Mikael Abrahamsson
Sent: Tuesday, November 19, 2002 4:56 PM
To: Deepak Jain
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: Even the New York Times withholds the address
On Tue, 19 Nov 2002, Deepak Jain wrote:
Some facilities (Terremark comes to mind
At 06:57 PM 11/19/2002, Jim Hickstein wrote:
A steam-generating plant I once toured (another story) used number _six_
fuel oil. I asked, Is that the stuff that comes in blocks? I thought I
was being funny. The reply: it's delivered and kept hot in an underground
tank, else it starts to
I called a friend still in the business. He's not
been an operator for decades, but he specs the following:
Kero/JetA: 110-120F
#2 Heat 120F
#2 Diesel 120F, he recalls 125 but won't swear
to that number.
That said, the
http://www.nytimes.com/2002/11/19/nyregion/19FUEL.html
The New York Times is withholding the addresses of the buildings at the
request of city officials, who cited their importance to international
telecommunications and their potential as terrorist targets.
While almost everyone on
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