John Levine [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
[...]
Given that we're talking about cell phones, it seems completely
likely. Cell phones present the dialed number as a block, so there's
no ambiguity between 911 and 911X. I don't know whether UK cell
carriers map 911 to 112, but there's no technical
On Monday 25 Jul 2005 10:55 am, Peter Corlett wrote:
Does 112 work on non-GSM phones?
In most of Europe dialing 112 on any phone on a public phone network, mobile
or fixed, should get you an emergency operator.
I think in some parts of Europe it may still get you the police, instead of a
On 25-jul-2005, at 12:54, Brad Knowles wrote:
rant And why should the UK change its numbering system just
because
a few dumb Yanks who can't be bothered to learn local customs? Does
999 get through to the emergency services in the NANP? Does 112 work
on non-GSM phones? How about
At 1:18 PM +0200 2005-07-25, Iljitsch van Beijnum wrote:
What should happen instead is that everywhere, the most common ones are
made to work as additional CNAMEs for the local one.
That doesn't work. As has already been demonstrated, there are
numbers elsewhere in the world with 999 as
On 25-jul-2005, at 13:45, Brad Knowles wrote:
What should happen instead is that everywhere, the most common
ones are
made to work as additional CNAMEs for the local one.
That doesn't work. As has already been demonstrated, there are
numbers elsewhere in the world with 999 as
Anyway, my point being: the current numbers have been drilled into
our subconscious very effectively. Throwing that away woulde be an
amazing waste of time and money.
Would it? Are humans that difficult to teach? Is all advertising
a waste of time?
This whole single number hype should end
Simon Waters [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On Monday 25 Jul 2005 10:55 am, Peter Corlett wrote:
[...]
Does 112 work on non-GSM phones?
In most of Europe dialing 112 on any phone on a public phone
network, mobile or fixed, should get you an emergency operator.
When I wrote non-GSM, I actually
On Mon, Jul 25, 2005 at 02:01:33PM +0100, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
This whole single number hype should end anyway.
In Russia it is simple, there are three numbers:
01 - Fire Service
02 - Police
03 - Ambulance/Medical response
Easy to remember especially because the number is written
Summary (and hopeful conclusion) of this thread: Depending on which
country you live in, you may have to dial a different number for
emergency services. It's true!
If you read the entire discussion, you'll be amazed at how many
emergency numbers NANOG members can name for various countries,
On Mon, 25 Jul 2005 14:09:11 -, Peter Corlett said:
If you don't even know what country you're in, I don't fancy your
chances telling emergency services where you are...
I blinked... Did we leave (Luxembourg / Andorra / Liechtenstein ) already? :)
(Sorry, I couldn't resist ;)
world-wide, so that if you're an American in Europe, you can still
call 911 and have that work as expected.
Given that there are UK telephone numbers starting 911, this seems
rather unlikely.
Given that we're talking about cell phones, it seems completely
likely. Cell phones present the
Brad Knowles [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
[...] I understand that the carriers have gotten together and made
sure that the various 911/112/999 emergency services numbers work
world-wide, so that if you're an American in Europe, you can still
call 911 and have that work as expected.
Given that
On Thu, 21 Jul 2005 10:20:07 + (UTC)
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Peter Corlett) wrote:
Given that there are UK telephone numbers starting 911
When I worked with Oftel on the design of the new UK numbering schemes,
one of my strongest recommendations was for certain prefixes, including
911, to be
On 20 Jul 2005, at 21:46, Brad Knowles wrote:
In the case of regular cell phones, if you are roaming on a network
in a foreign country, or you have rented a local phone, I understand
that the carriers have gotten together and made sure that the various
911/112/999 emergency services
I see no other way of doing this reliably than to put some kind of
GPS device into the VoIP unit.
While I agree that GPS is the likely answer, I wasn't expecting the
ability to work inside computer rooms and basements.
It doesn't need to work in basements, etc. It only needs to keep
a
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I see no other way of doing this reliably than to put some kind of
GPS device into the VoIP unit.
While I agree that GPS is the likely answer, I wasn't expecting the
ability to work inside computer rooms and basements.
It doesn't need to work in basements, etc. It
At 10:32 AM +0100 2005-07-20, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
While I agree that GPS is the likely answer, I wasn't expecting the
ability to work inside computer rooms and basements.
It doesn't need to work in basements, etc. It only needs to keep
a record of the last location it was at when
On Wed, 20 Jul 2005, Andre Oppermann wrote:
To sum it up: Using GPS to geo-locate VoIP phones or adapters is broken
by design.
No, it isn't. Relying on satellite connectivity to do so broken, but
that's not how it works anymore. Did you even read the article regarding
indoor GPS that I
In either case, simply keeping the last known signal lock may
very well be one of the worst things you could do.
Depends on what you want to do with the location info. If you
want to immediately dispatch a vehicle, then you have to realize
that you may be sending one to the edge of the
Mikael Abrahamsson wrote:
On Wed, 20 Jul 2005, Andre Oppermann wrote:
To sum it up: Using GPS to geo-locate VoIP phones or adapters is
broken by design.
No, it isn't. Relying on satellite connectivity to do so broken, but
that's not how it works anymore. Did you even read the article
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
In either case, simply keeping the last known signal lock may
very well be one of the worst things you could do.
Depends on what you want to do with the location info. If you
want to immediately dispatch a vehicle, then you have to realize
that you may be sending
At 11:21 AM +0100 2005-07-20, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On the other hand, maybe all you want to do is to route the
call to the right E911 center. In that case, as long as you
are in the right county you are probably OK.
If all you use the last known position information for is
routing
At 12:34 PM +0200 2005-07-20, Andre Oppermann wrote:
So
my guess is that the real drivers are the law enforcement agencies
wanting to get better tracking abilities. Whether they get out of
deal what they are hoping for remains
It doesn't need to work in basements, etc. It only needs to keep
a record of the last location it was at when the signal faded
away. The emergency service vehicles probably can't get any closer
than that anyway.
In the US, that might be true, but, I'm betting that could be very wrong
in places
In the US, that might be true, but, I'm betting that could be very wrong
in places like London. I'm betting the station where you boarded the
Tube could be a LONG way from where you make the 911 call.
There are very few places in the underground tube system where you
can make calls on your
I guess it also depends on what you mean by significantly. Is
a 10% solution significant?
Nope. 15% or better.
This comes from an old rule of thumb about sales, pricing, etc.
If the new supplier doesn't offer 15% or better pricing then
the hassles of switching aren't worth it. Or, you
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
In the US, that might be true, but, I'm betting that could be very wrong
in places like London. I'm betting the station where you boarded the
Tube could be a LONG way from where you make the 911 call.
There are very few places in the underground tube system where you
On Wed, 20 Jul 2005, Andre Oppermann wrote:
This is unlikely. GPS reception is usually determined by sight of
horizon. For example the navigation system in my car has trouble
Looking at:
http://people.howstuffworks.com/location-tracking4.htm
Phase II - The final phase requires carriers
-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, July 20, 2005 5:32 AM
To: nanog@merit.edu
Subject: Re: Vonage Selects TCS For VoIP E911 Service
I see no other way of doing this reliably than to put some kind of
GPS device into the VoIP unit
On the other hand, maybe all you want to do is to route the
call to the right E911 center. In that case, as long as you
are in the right county you are probably OK.
And if by chance you end up in the wrong county, as it happens from
mobile phones on occasions, they will immediately
I think this can work. Put a battery backup in the ATA, to power the
GPS and real time clock. The ATA will maintain the internet-routable
address it's using (not necessarily it's own IP address) indefinitely.
If the ATA determines it's routable address (or /23 or whatever subnet)
has
Andre Oppermann wrote:
I have never seen any real study by the emergency response services
on how many problems they actually have other than isolated worst-
cases and a lot of political rah-rah. In the end I expect that any
technically feasible improvement to the cell phone position accuracy
--- Brad Knowles [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
If the time since last fix is several hours, then
the person
might now be on a plane using a picocell or
broadband wireless
network connection that is not position-enhanced,
and using the
position information for routing to the presumed
If a person is calling 911 from a plane in flight, are
we really so concerned about which PSAP receieves the
call?The last known fix would likely have been the
point of origin in any case...
If a picocell on board an airplane receives an E911
call, it shouldn't route it to any PSAP. The
GPS does not work through the fuselage of a aluminum airplane.
I've tried. More than once.
On Wed, 20 Jul 2005 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
If a person is calling 911 from a plane in flight, are
we really so concerned about which PSAP receieves the
call?The last known fix would likely
Thus spake Kuhtz, Christian [EMAIL PROTECTED]
On the other hand, maybe all you want to do is to route the
call to the right E911 center. In that case, as long as you
are in the right county you are probably OK.
And if by chance you end up in the wrong county, as it happens
from mobile phones
On Wed, 20 Jul 2005, Alex Rubenstein wrote:
GPS does not work through the fuselage of a aluminum airplane.
I've tried. More than once.
The gps carrier frequency is 1575.42mhz
a decent gps antenna is unfortunately a bit larger than most small gps
recivers let alone cellphones. multipath
Perhaps the tube wasn't the best example, although, I remember making cell
calls from places in stations I'm pretty sure I wouldn't have gotten GPS
coverage.
In any case, the fundamental assumption that detailed location information
for
e911 on every phone or phone-like capability is desirable
Selects TCS For VoIP E911 Service
snip
Maybe we should lobby government to require Wi-Fi access point manufacturers
to include location information in their devices.
After that, the VoIP operators and the Wi-Fi access operators should be able to
sort out some protocol for sharing the location
info
PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, July 20, 2005 7:22 AM
To: nanog@merit.edu
Subject: Re: Vonage Selects TCS For VoIP E911 Service
snip
Maybe we should lobby government to require Wi-Fi access point
manufacturers to include location information in their devices. After
that, the VoIP operators
I don't know all that much about commercial VOIP service or GPS, but it
seems to me I've just read lots and lots of messages citing weird cases
where locating a VOIP phone won't work well as evidence that the whole
idea is a failure, while none of those cases appear to have much to do
with
At 4:19 PM -0700 2005-07-20, Steve Gibbard wrote:
At some point it makes sense to solve the problems you can solve, rather
than inventing new ones.
True enough. However, the tough problems are always the ones you
never thought of before you started building the system. Therefore,
it
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On the other hand, maybe all you want to do is to route the
call to the right E911 center. In that case, as long as you
are in the right county you are probably OK.
This is actually more important then it sounds. Not long ago I was
driving around in Northern New
On Mon, 18 Jul 2005, Daniel Senie wrote:
use the customer's billing address, attempt to determine location based
on IP address or some other voodoo? It'll be interesting to see if they
If you look at the webpage of telecomsystems (http://www.telecomsys.com)
they state that their platform is
Well... It will be most amusing if the 911 dispatchers start a deluge
of calls and letters asking the FCC What the hell were you idiots
thinking?
when they realize what the FCC has done here.
It's a bad rule on the FCC's part showing they don't understand the
technology and think that VOIP is
If you can put a locator into a cellphone, I see no reason why you cannot
do the same in a VoIP unit.
Just because you can does not mean it is a good idea. I like being
able to have a phone that cannot be accurately located. I won't be
buying any VOIP products that can.
Owen
--
If this
Speaking on Deep Background, the Press Secretary whispered:
On Tue, 19 Jul 2005, Owen DeLong wrote:
Just because you can does not mean it is a good idea. I like being able
to have a phone that cannot be accurately located. I won't be buying
any VOIP products that can.
Then I
At 02:48 AM 7/19/2005, Mikael Abrahamsson wrote:
On Mon, 18 Jul 2005, Daniel Senie wrote:
use the customer's billing address, attempt to determine location
based on IP address or some other voodoo? It'll be interesting to see if they
If you look at the webpage of telecomsystems
On Tue, 19 Jul 2005, Daniel Senie wrote:
I suppose a downside is folks using the Vonage boxes outside the US via VPN
will be traceable by Vonage and could get shut down, if Vonage wanted to
enforce such.
I think the ground based radio transmitters needed for indoor operation
isn't around
At 6:45 PM +0200 2005-07-19, Mikael Abrahamsson wrote:
I think the ground based radio transmitters needed for indoor operation
isn't around much outside the US. I was very surprised when I got a
cellphone-based GPS navigator from AVIS last time I was in the US, and
it started working
Perhaps -- but how does it work inside? Are we relying/requiring the user
to put up a GPS antenna?
On Tue, 19 Jul 2005, Mikael Abrahamsson wrote:
On Mon, 18 Jul 2005, Daniel Senie wrote:
use the customer's billing address, attempt to determine location based on
IP address or some
google 'dead reckoning'.
The higher end nav systems and gyros, for specifically this reason.
On Tue, 19 Jul 2005, Mikael Abrahamsson wrote:
On Tue, 19 Jul 2005, Daniel Senie wrote:
I suppose a downside is folks using the Vonage boxes outside the US via VPN
will be traceable by Vonage
At 09:06 PM 7/18/2005, Fergie (Paul Ferguson) wrote:
http://www.advancedippipeline.com/166400372
Interesting. No ability to opt-out, and no signup option. So will
they use the customer's billing address, attempt to determine
location based on IP address or some other voodoo? It'll be
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