RE: What do we mean when we say competition? (was: Re: [Latest draft of Internet regulation bill])

2005-11-16 Thread Owen DeLong
--On November 15, 2005 11:02:18 PM -0800 David Schwartz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --On November 15, 2005 8:14:38 PM -0800 David Schwartz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --On November 15, 2005 6:28:21 AM -0800 David Barak [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: OK... Let me try this again... True

RE: What do we mean when we say competition? (was: Re: [Latest draft of Internet regulation bill])

2005-11-16 Thread David Schwartz
In any case, the bottom line is that whether through subsidy, deal, or other mechanism, the last-mile infrastructure tends to end up being a monopoly or duopoly for most terrestrial forms of infrastructure. As such, I think we should accept that monopoly and limit the monopoly zone to that

RE: What do we mean when we say competition? (was: Re: [Latest draft of Internet regulation bill])

2005-11-16 Thread David Schwartz
Right, and this is appropriate. Large investments in infrastructure should *not* be made if there's already adequate service. Better to invest in places where there isn't. Is that still true if the adequate service is being provided at a price which is two to three times what it

RE: What do we mean when we say competition? (was: Re: [Latest draft of Internet regulation bill])

2005-11-16 Thread Michael . Dillon
This separation model may turn out to be a very good one or a very bad one. But if we choose it and stick with it, what will happen in 50 or 100 years when it's either broken or irrelevent? Remember, we got to where we are now by choosing models that made sense in the voice telco time

Re: What do we mean when we say competition? (was: Re: [Latest draft of Internet regulation bill])

2005-11-16 Thread Marshall Eubanks
Hello; On Nov 16, 2005, at 1:16 AM, Owen DeLong wrote: --On November 15, 2005 8:14:38 PM -0800 David Schwartz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --On November 15, 2005 6:28:21 AM -0800 David Barak [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: OK... Let me try this again... True competition requires that it be

RE: What do we mean when we say competition? (was: Re: [Latest draft of Internet regulation bill])

2005-11-16 Thread Owen DeLong
--On November 16, 2005 4:23:20 AM -0800 David Schwartz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In any case, the bottom line is that whether through subsidy, deal, or other mechanism, the last-mile infrastructure tends to end up being a monopoly or duopoly for most terrestrial forms of infrastructure.

What do we mean when we say competition? (was: Re: [Latest draft of Internet regulation bill])

2005-11-15 Thread David Barak
--- Owen DeLong [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: True competition requires the ability for multiple providers to enter into the market, including the creation of new providers to seize opportunities being ignored by the existing ones. Technically, lots of other providers CAN enter the market -

Re: What do we mean when we say competition? (was: Re: [Latest draft of Internet regulation bill])

2005-11-15 Thread Matthew Crocker
Technically, lots of other providers CAN enter the market - it's just very expensive to do so. If there are customers who are not receiving service from one of the incumbent providers, a third party is certainly welcome to {dig a trench | build wireless towers | buy lots of well-trained

Re: What do we mean when we say competition? (was: Re: [Latest draft of Internet regulation bill])

2005-11-15 Thread Michael . Dillon
The RBOCs should be split up into a wholesale *only* division (owns the poles, wires, buildings,switches) and a services *retail* division (owns the dialtone, bandwidth, customers ). The wholesale division should sell service to the retail division at a regulated TELRIC based price

Re: What do we mean when we say competition? (was: Re: [Latest draft of Internet regulation bill])

2005-11-15 Thread Owen DeLong
--On November 15, 2005 6:28:21 AM -0800 David Barak [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- Owen DeLong [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: True competition requires the ability for multiple providers to enter into the market, including the creation of new providers to seize opportunities being ignored by

RE: What do we mean when we say competition? (was: Re: [Latest draft of Internet regulation bill])

2005-11-15 Thread David Schwartz
--On November 15, 2005 6:28:21 AM -0800 David Barak [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: OK... Let me try this again... True competition requires that it be PRACTICAL for multiple providers to enter the market, including the creation of new providers to seize opportunities being ignored by the

RE: What do we mean when we say competition? (was: Re: [Latest draft of Internet regulation bill])

2005-11-15 Thread Owen DeLong
--On November 15, 2005 8:14:38 PM -0800 David Schwartz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --On November 15, 2005 6:28:21 AM -0800 David Barak [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: OK... Let me try this again... True competition requires that it be PRACTICAL for multiple providers to enter the market,

RE: What do we mean when we say competition? (was: Re: [Latest draft of Internet regulation bill])

2005-11-15 Thread David Schwartz
--On November 15, 2005 8:14:38 PM -0800 David Schwartz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --On November 15, 2005 6:28:21 AM -0800 David Barak [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: OK... Let me try this again... True competition requires that it be PRACTICAL for multiple providers to enter the market,

Re: What do we mean when we say competition? (was: Re: [Latest draft of Internet regulation bill])

2005-11-15 Thread Mikael Abrahamsson
On Tue, 15 Nov 2005 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This is more or less what BT has done in the UK by splitting off all the field engineering into a separate company called Openreach. Telia in Sweden did that (Skanova), now that they're privatised (partly) they're merging that unit back again,