Re: howto ignore rfkill switch
On 08/06/2010 12:51 AM, Dana Goyette wrote: My Samsung laptop's rfkill switch, on the other hand, is entirely software. If I unload the samsung-laptop module with the wifi card set to kill, the wifi card can at least receive. I'm not sure about sending, since r8192pci mostly fails. The staging drivers for the 8192 know nothing about the rfkill subsystem, thus this point is moot. Larry ___ networkmanager-list mailing list networkmanager-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/networkmanager-list
Re: howto ignore rfkill switch
On 08/06/2010 07:10 AM, Larry Finger wrote: On 08/06/2010 12:51 AM, Dana Goyette wrote: My Samsung laptop's rfkill switch, on the other hand, is entirely software. If I unload the samsung-laptop module with the wifi card set to kill, the wifi card can at least receive. I'm not sure about sending, since r8192pci mostly fails. The staging drivers for the 8192 know nothing about the rfkill subsystem, thus this point is moot. Larry What I mean is that the 8192 driver fails in various ways even when not rfkilled -- but that's an entirely different issue. ___ networkmanager-list mailing list networkmanager-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/networkmanager-list
Re: howto ignore rfkill switch
On 04/23/2010 02:12 AM, Marc Herbert wrote: Le 21/04/2010 23:09, Jim Cromie wrote : The switch disables all WIFI; not just the built-in one, but also pcmcia and usb wlan devices Ive plugged in. Do you know how Windows handles this? In Windows, there are two rfkill switches, as well: the Windows Mobility Center one, and the HP one. Just as with Linux, the Windows one shows up as hard-killed when the HP one is soft-killed, and doesn't let me even try to un-kill it; I have to use the HP utility (or the button) to un-kill it. On the other hand, killing the Windows one does not kill the HP one -- the HP utility says disabled in Windows. For the Bluetooth adapter, the HP rfkill switch results in the controller becoming unplugged from the USB bus entirely. Lately, at least, the switch has been somewhat more reliable in Linux -- it no longer resumes killed if it wasn't killed before suspend. My Samsung laptop's rfkill switch, on the other hand, is entirely software. If I unload the samsung-laptop module with the wifi card set to kill, the wifi card can at least receive. I'm not sure about sending, since r8192pci mostly fails. ___ networkmanager-list mailing list networkmanager-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/networkmanager-list
Re: howto ignore rfkill switch
On Thu, Apr 22, 2010 at 9:44 AM, Dan Williams d...@redhat.com wrote: On Wed, 2010-04-21 at 18:49 -0600, Jim Cromie wrote: 1 - with only built-in wifi card, I get a blank list. 2 - once I plug in the pcmcia and usb cards, theyre both unblocked, but the builtin (ipw2200) is still missing. Blocking and unblocking alters the displayed state (as above) but NM-applet says that all 3 are disabled. Yes, for a number of reasons. First, we can't usually figure out which killswitch is for which wifi device. It's often just not possible, plus platform killswitches provided by your laptop BIOS aren't tied to a specific wifi device. Second, you're probably better off blacklisting the internal wifi driver modules so they simply don't load in the first place. Add the names (libipw, ipw2200) to to /etc/modprobe.d/blacklist.conf to do this. If you rmmod ipw2200, what happens? Interesting. At 1st, I failed to see this as responsive; how could removing a driver enable others ? but I tried anyway, and lo-and-behold: with ipw2200 rmmod'd, I can now enable the pcmcia card (which didnt work before), after a few tries, it connected !! It held for several minutes, then dropped, and wont reconnect, but that appears to be something else So laptop is usable (w/o a leash) again, thanks! so, what happened ? Is this a teachable moment ? 1- I re-modprobed ipw2200, and NM promptly killed the pcmcia card's connection, and shows both wifis as disabled. 2- rmmod again removes both cards from NM-applets available wifi-interfaces list, but ejecting and reinserting pcmcia card reconnects. 3- doing this also increments phy#, Im now on phy3 (this isnt surprising/noteworthy really) Im also a bit unclear on soft/hard/platform distinctions, perhaps others are too. 1- my kill switch affects plugin devices, so it cant be a hardware kill switch; hardware kills are directly connected to internal devices, and theres no such pcb-trace that crosses the USB plug ( there *could* be in the pcmcia connector, but that too seems unlikely ) Or do I read 'hardware' too literally ? 2- the rfkill-LED is hard-wired to switch. I cant prove this though; since I cant toggle the switch, udevadm monitor cant see events that dont happen. 3- why doesnt rfkill list all show the internal wifi device ? Is there a way for it to read and report a platform rfkill ? (presumably just once) 4- rfkill module is used by sony_laptop module, does this make my kill switch a 'platform kill' ? tia ___ networkmanager-list mailing list networkmanager-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/networkmanager-list
Re: howto ignore rfkill switch
On Fri, Apr 23, 2010 at 5:12 AM, Marc Herbert marc.herb...@gmail.com wrote: Le 21/04/2010 23:09, Jim Cromie wrote : The switch disables all WIFI; not just the built-in one, but also pcmcia and usb wlan devices Ive plugged in. Do you know how Windows handles this? No - I wiped that partition years ago, before the switch failed. ___ networkmanager-list mailing list networkmanager-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/networkmanager-list
Re: howto ignore rfkill switch
On 04/26/2010 11:32 AM, Jim Cromie wrote: On Thu, Apr 22, 2010 at 9:44 AM, Dan Williams d...@redhat.com wrote: On Wed, 2010-04-21 at 18:49 -0600, Jim Cromie wrote: 1 - with only built-in wifi card, I get a blank list. 2 - once I plug in the pcmcia and usb cards, theyre both unblocked, but the builtin (ipw2200) is still missing. Blocking and unblocking alters the displayed state (as above) but NM-applet says that all 3 are disabled. Yes, for a number of reasons. First, we can't usually figure out which killswitch is for which wifi device. It's often just not possible, plus platform killswitches provided by your laptop BIOS aren't tied to a specific wifi device. Second, you're probably better off blacklisting the internal wifi driver modules so they simply don't load in the first place. Add the names (libipw, ipw2200) to to /etc/modprobe.d/blacklist.conf to do this. If you rmmod ipw2200, what happens? Interesting. At 1st, I failed to see this as responsive; how could removing a driver enable others ? but I tried anyway, and lo-and-behold: with ipw2200 rmmod'd, I can now enable the pcmcia card (which didnt work before), after a few tries, it connected !! It held for several minutes, then dropped, and wont reconnect, but that appears to be something else So laptop is usable (w/o a leash) again, thanks! so, what happened ? Is this a teachable moment ? This is expected behavior. My box has a PCIe card that usually contains one of the Broadcom flavors. If I turn off the switch, that will disable any of my USB cards unless I unload b43, which also unloads its copy of rfkill. Even though the b43 driver is not active on the air, its feedback through rfkill is still active. 1- I re-modprobed ipw2200, and NM promptly killed the pcmcia card's connection, and shows both wifis as disabled. As described above, that is predictable. 2- rmmod again removes both cards from NM-applets available wifi-interfaces list, but ejecting and reinserting pcmcia card reconnects. 3- doing this also increments phy#, Im now on phy3 (this isnt surprising/noteworthy really) Each invocation is a new instance for mac80211 and is expected. When testing, I sometimes get to 3 digit phy#. Im also a bit unclear on soft/hard/platform distinctions, perhaps others are too. 1- my kill switch affects plugin devices, so it cant be a hardware kill switch; hardware kills are directly connected to internal devices, and theres no such pcb-trace that crosses the USB plug ( there *could* be in the pcmcia connector, but that too seems unlikely ) Or do I read 'hardware' too literally ? Once any hardware switch kills the radio, it kills it for ALL devices. That is for safety and compliance with regulations. There is no physical connection to the USB. The interaction is through the rfkill software. It is a hard block because some hardware device is blocking. 2- the rfkill-LED is hard-wired to switch. I cant prove this though; since I cant toggle the switch, udevadm monitor cant see events that dont happen. That depends on the device. On my box, b43 controls the LED. If b43 is unloaded, the LED is always off; however, USB devices are not blocked, even if the switch is off. Only if b43 is loaded does the switch block/unblock. 3- why doesnt rfkill list all show the internal wifi device ? Is there a way for it to read and report a platform rfkill ? (presumably just once) Pass on this one. 4- rfkill module is used by sony_laptop module, does this make my kill switch a 'platform kill' ? Ditto. Larry ___ networkmanager-list mailing list networkmanager-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/networkmanager-list
Re: howto ignore rfkill switch
Le 21/04/2010 23:09, Jim Cromie wrote : The switch disables all WIFI; not just the built-in one, but also pcmcia and usb wlan devices Ive plugged in. Do you know how Windows handles this? ___ networkmanager-list mailing list networkmanager-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/networkmanager-list
Re: howto ignore rfkill switch
On Wed, 21 Apr 2010 18:49:23 -0600 Jim Cromie jim.cro...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, Apr 21, 2010 at 4:24 PM, Vladimir Botka vbo...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, 21 Apr 2010 16:09:19 -0600 Jim Cromie jim.cro...@gmail.com wrote: Im willing to disable the rfkill code thats shutting things down, but would appreciate advice on how to do so, or whether theres a simpler approach that avoids code changes (my hope). Install the rfkill utility and check the status [1]. Maybe you succeed to rfkill unblock .. it. # rfkill list all 0: sony-wifi: Wireless LAN Soft blocked: no Hard blocked: no 1 - with only built-in wifi card, I get a blank list. [j...@harpo ~]$ rfkill list all [j...@harpo ~]$ lsmod | grep ipw ipw2200 115811 0 libipw 20827 1 ipw2200 lib802114062 2 ipw2200,libipw Yes. The same here. Just the bluetooth rfkill interface. Unfortunately if there is no interface available I have no other hints. Maybe pincers ? # lsmod | grep ipw ipw2200 193740 0 libipw 45936 1 ipw2200 lib802117460 2 ipw2200,libipw # rfkill list all 0: tpacpi_bluetooth_sw: Bluetooth Soft blocked: no Hard blocked: no 1: hci0: Bluetooth Soft blocked: no Hard blocked: no Cheers, -vlado ___ networkmanager-list mailing list networkmanager-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/networkmanager-list
Re: howto ignore rfkill switch
On Wed, 2010-04-21 at 18:49 -0600, Jim Cromie wrote: On Wed, Apr 21, 2010 at 4:24 PM, Vladimir Botka vbo...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, 21 Apr 2010 16:09:19 -0600 Jim Cromie jim.cro...@gmail.com wrote: Im willing to disable the rfkill code thats shutting things down, but would appreciate advice on how to do so, or whether theres a simpler approach that avoids code changes (my hope). Install the rfkill utility and check the status [1]. Maybe you succeed to rfkill unblock .. it. # rfkill list all 0: sony-wifi: Wireless LAN Soft blocked: no Hard blocked: no thanks Vlado, that gets me more info (but no solution yet) 1 - with only built-in wifi card, I get a blank list. [j...@harpo ~]$ rfkill list all [j...@harpo ~]$ lsmod | grep ipw ipw2200 115811 0 libipw 20827 1 ipw2200 lib802114062 2 ipw2200,libipw 2 - once I plug in the pcmcia and usb cards, theyre both unblocked, but the builtin (ipw2200) is still missing. [j...@harpo ~]$ rfkill list all 1: phy1: Wireless LAN Soft blocked: no Hard blocked: no 2: phy2: Wireless LAN Soft blocked: no Hard blocked: no Blocking and unblocking alters the displayed state (as above) but NM-applet says that all 3 are disabled. Yes, for a number of reasons. First, we can't usually figure out which killswitch is for which wifi device. It's often just not possible, plus platform killswitches provided by your laptop BIOS aren't tied to a specific wifi device. Second, you're probably better off blacklisting the internal wifi driver modules so they simply don't load in the first place. Add the names (libipw, ipw2200) to to /etc/modprobe.d/blacklist.conf to do this. If you rmmod ipw2200, what happens? Dan ___ networkmanager-list mailing list networkmanager-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/networkmanager-list
Re: howto ignore rfkill switch
On 04/22/2010 08:44 AM, Dan Williams wrote: On Wed, 2010-04-21 at 18:49 -0600, Jim Cromie wrote: Yes, for a number of reasons. First, we can't usually figure out which killswitch is for which wifi device. It's often just not possible, plus platform killswitches provided by your laptop BIOS aren't tied to a specific wifi device. Dan On a similar vein, I have issues every time I resume from suspend with my HP laptop. I have both a platform rfkill and a phy0 rfkill, and soft-blocking the platform rfkill hard-blocks the phy0 rfkill. Since NetworkManager refuses to try to unblock ANY rfkill if one is hard-blocked, I end up having to manually rfkill unblock wifi at resume. Is there any way to get NetworkManger to ignore the phy0 rfkill? The assumption that we can't tell what wifi device the platform rfkill applies to, is not quite true, at least for HP: I think it would be a relatively safe bet that the hp-wifi rfkill applies to whatever wifi card is internal (that is, on a non-hotpluggable PCI or PCIe port). 0: hci0: Bluetooth Soft blocked: no Hard blocked: no 1: phy0: Wireless LAN Soft blocked: no Hard blocked: yes 2: hp-wifi: Wireless LAN Soft blocked: yes Hard blocked: no 3: hp-bluetooth: Bluetooth Soft blocked: no Hard blocked: no ___ networkmanager-list mailing list networkmanager-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/networkmanager-list
Re: howto ignore rfkill switch
On Thu, 2010-04-22 at 11:10 -0700, Dana Goyette wrote: On 04/22/2010 08:44 AM, Dan Williams wrote: On Wed, 2010-04-21 at 18:49 -0600, Jim Cromie wrote: Yes, for a number of reasons. First, we can't usually figure out which killswitch is for which wifi device. It's often just not possible, plus platform killswitches provided by your laptop BIOS aren't tied to a specific wifi device. Dan On a similar vein, I have issues every time I resume from suspend with my HP laptop. I have both a platform rfkill and a phy0 rfkill, and soft-blocking the platform rfkill hard-blocks the phy0 rfkill. Since NetworkManager refuses to try to unblock ANY rfkill if one is hard-blocked, I end up having to manually rfkill unblock wifi at resume. Is there any way to get NetworkManger to ignore the phy0 rfkill? Not really; because if the phy is hardblocked, it really is *dead* and it won't be usable at all until that hardblock is removed (by unblocking the platform device). NM doesn't actually *write* to rfkill, it simply reads it. You'll want to use the hardware killswitch (or the platform one, whatever you have) to unblock your wifi when needed. The assumption that we can't tell what wifi device the platform rfkill applies to, is not quite true, at least for HP: I think it would be a relatively safe bet that the hp-wifi rfkill applies to whatever wifi card is internal (that is, on a non-hotpluggable PCI or PCIe port). Ah, but how do you know which cards are actually internal? It's a bit easier for PCI devices, but we certainly don't know for USB devices (and not all USB devices are external, especially bluetooth and WWAN, but also many wifi devices). Also realize that the platform driver has a huge impact here. There can be bugs in the platform driver (hp-wmi, thinkpad-acpi, acer-wmi, asus-laptop, fujitsu-laptop, etc) that make rfkill perform badly. It might also be the case that the autoload magic isn't present in the platform driver for your specific laptop model. I have the same setup on my daily machine (HP 2530p). iwlagn phy killswitch, and an hp-wmi platform killswitch which hardblocks the phy one. There are some ways we can deal with this, but they are complicated and hard to get right. They also include UI changes, because to actually unblock wifi, you have to do something like this: 1) try to unblock each wifi killswitch 2) after doing this, if any killswitches are still blocked, try to unblock any blocked switches again 3) and try it again 4) if any switches are still blocked, the operation has failed, and you somehow alert the user 5) if all switches are unblocked, success This is because the platform killswitch will often hardblock the phy killswitch, so we can't use a hardblock state in the UI anywhere. That also means that we can't tell whether there's actually a hardblock anywhere that has to be fixed by sliding a switch, because we can't trust any phy hardblock (there are some ways around this). Second, not all phy switches are controlled by platform switches. And there's simply no way to tell which platform switches control phy switches, because that's all internal to BIOS and not exposed to the OS. There are some things we can do here, but everyone needs to realize that it's complicated and will take some time to get right. We don't want to deploy a solution that breaks 50% of laptop. Dan ___ networkmanager-list mailing list networkmanager-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/networkmanager-list
howto ignore rfkill switch
) UDEV [1271886396.493383] move /devices/pci:00/:00:1d.7/usb1/1-1/1-1:1.0/net/wlan1 (net) UDEV [1271886396.516463] add /devices/pci:00/:00:1d.7/usb1/1-1/1-1:1.0/ieee80211/phy6 (ieee80211) UDEV [1271886396.517573] add /devices/pci:00/:00:1d.7/usb1/1-1/1-1:1.0/ieee80211/phy6/rfkill6 (rfkill) UDEV [1271886396.518076] change /devices/pci:00/:00:1d.7/usb1/1-1/1-1:1.0/ieee80211/phy6/rfkill6 (rfkill) Re: howto ignore rfkill switch From: Dan Williams dcbw redhat com To: Marcel Holtmann marcel holtmann org Cc: networkmanager-list gnome org Subject: Re: howto ignore rfkill switch Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2009 09:10:44 -0400 Im willing to disable the rfkill code thats shutting things down, but would appreciate advice on how to do so, or whether theres a simpler approach that avoids code changes (my hope). tia ___ networkmanager-list mailing list networkmanager-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/networkmanager-list
Re: howto ignore rfkill switch
On Wed, 21 Apr 2010 16:09:19 -0600 Jim Cromie jim.cro...@gmail.com wrote: Im willing to disable the rfkill code thats shutting things down, but would appreciate advice on how to do so, or whether theres a simpler approach that avoids code changes (my hope). Install the rfkill utility and check the status [1]. Maybe you succeed to rfkill unblock .. it. # rfkill list all 0: sony-wifi: Wireless LAN Soft blocked: no Hard blocked: no 1: sony-bluetooth: Bluetooth Soft blocked: no Hard blocked: no 2: hci0: Bluetooth Soft blocked: no Hard blocked: no 3: phy0: Wireless LAN Soft blocked: no Hard blocked: no Cheers, -vlado ___ networkmanager-list mailing list networkmanager-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/networkmanager-list
Re: howto ignore rfkill switch
On Wed, Apr 21, 2010 at 4:24 PM, Vladimir Botka vbo...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, 21 Apr 2010 16:09:19 -0600 Jim Cromie jim.cro...@gmail.com wrote: Im willing to disable the rfkill code thats shutting things down, but would appreciate advice on how to do so, or whether theres a simpler approach that avoids code changes (my hope). Install the rfkill utility and check the status [1]. Maybe you succeed to rfkill unblock .. it. # rfkill list all 0: sony-wifi: Wireless LAN Soft blocked: no Hard blocked: no thanks Vlado, that gets me more info (but no solution yet) 1 - with only built-in wifi card, I get a blank list. [j...@harpo ~]$ rfkill list all [j...@harpo ~]$ lsmod | grep ipw ipw2200 115811 0 libipw 20827 1 ipw2200 lib802114062 2 ipw2200,libipw 2 - once I plug in the pcmcia and usb cards, theyre both unblocked, but the builtin (ipw2200) is still missing. [j...@harpo ~]$ rfkill list all 1: phy1: Wireless LAN Soft blocked: no Hard blocked: no 2: phy2: Wireless LAN Soft blocked: no Hard blocked: no Blocking and unblocking alters the displayed state (as above) but NM-applet says that all 3 are disabled. (including ipw2200 builtin card) ___ networkmanager-list mailing list networkmanager-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/networkmanager-list
Re: howto ignore rfkill switch
On Tue, 2009-07-28 at 12:43 +0200, Marcel Holtmann wrote: Hi Brian, rfkill is *not* the mechanism to disable a specific card completely. Yes it is. A hardware switch is great. It is so more intuitive than any software interface, since it just looks like the good old ON/OFF button that everybody understands since they were three years old. By making one single button act on multiple unrelated devices you try to make the machine too clever and leave the fundamental ON/OFF analogy behind. It might be great if you actually have a hardware switch, a lot of machines do not. My laptop uses Fn-F2 and that disables Wi-Fi and Bluetooth simultaneously but not by cutting the power to them or by toggling an enable line to the radios. It does it by some sort of software mechanism. This ON/OFF analogy is so fundamental that most users do not even suspect it is an analogy! They simply think that the button is actually hard-wired to the device. Cool, a hardware button! Finally something simple and reliable to switch off all this complex and buggy software!. Or Damn! Why the hell can't I switch off my WiFi and leave my Bluetooth active so I can use my mouse? that is actually the fault of the old RFKILL input stuff in the kernel. It was wrong and we will be moving this to userspace. So you can actually toggle between it with visual feedback to the user. Let me repeat, every RFKILL before the 2.6.31 kernel was a complete cluster-fuck, heavily complicated and just plain wrong. Check the linux-wireless mailing list archive if you have a day or so. There are quite a few posts about it :) And this is most of the reason why people have problems with NM's rfkill support. The reason why NM used global rfkill was that it was simply *impossible* to tie a specific rfkill switch to a specific wifi card with kernels before 2.6.31. It's still difficult, but no longer impossible. Dan ___ NetworkManager-list mailing list NetworkManager-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/networkmanager-list
Re: howto ignore rfkill switch
Dan Williams wrote : You've flipped the rfkill switch, thus you do not want to use wifi. With all due respect, you are wrong. If you do actually want to use wifi, there are other, better mechanisms to just kill the card you don't want to use. blacklisting does not qualify as better. Besides blacklisting? rfkill is *not* the mechanism to disable a specific card completely. Yes it is. A hardware switch is great. It is so more intuitive than any software interface, since it just looks like the good old ON/OFF button that everybody understands since they were three years old. By making one single button act on multiple unrelated devices you try to make the machine too clever and leave the fundamental ON/OFF analogy behind. This ON/OFF analogy is so fundamental that most users do not even suspect it is an analogy! They simply think that the button is actually hard-wired to the device. Cool, a hardware button! Finally something simple and reliable to switch off all this complex and buggy software!. In the latest Ubuntu stable, ath5k reliably freezes my laptop; this example could be the most common reason normal people use another wireless interface. To switch off my USB / PCMCIA interface, guess what: I simply use once again its dead-simple, hardware interface: I just plug it out! And sorry but I do not plan to explain to my grand-ma how to blacklist drivers. Cheers, Marc PS Marcel: I read you, and I am glad the kernel plans to push this UI debate out of its scope. ___ NetworkManager-list mailing list NetworkManager-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/networkmanager-list
Re: howto ignore rfkill switch
Marc Herbert wrote: rfkill is *not* the mechanism to disable a specific card completely. Yes it is. A hardware switch is great. It is so more intuitive than any software interface, since it just looks like the good old ON/OFF button that everybody understands since they were three years old. By making one single button act on multiple unrelated devices you try to make the machine too clever and leave the fundamental ON/OFF analogy behind. It might be great if you actually have a hardware switch, a lot of machines do not. My laptop uses Fn-F2 and that disables Wi-Fi and Bluetooth simultaneously but not by cutting the power to them or by toggling an enable line to the radios. It does it by some sort of software mechanism. This ON/OFF analogy is so fundamental that most users do not even suspect it is an analogy! They simply think that the button is actually hard-wired to the device. Cool, a hardware button! Finally something simple and reliable to switch off all this complex and buggy software!. Or Damn! Why the hell can't I switch off my WiFi and leave my Bluetooth active so I can use my mouse? -- Brian ___ NetworkManager-list mailing list NetworkManager-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/networkmanager-list
Re: howto ignore rfkill switch
Hi Brian, rfkill is *not* the mechanism to disable a specific card completely. Yes it is. A hardware switch is great. It is so more intuitive than any software interface, since it just looks like the good old ON/OFF button that everybody understands since they were three years old. By making one single button act on multiple unrelated devices you try to make the machine too clever and leave the fundamental ON/OFF analogy behind. It might be great if you actually have a hardware switch, a lot of machines do not. My laptop uses Fn-F2 and that disables Wi-Fi and Bluetooth simultaneously but not by cutting the power to them or by toggling an enable line to the radios. It does it by some sort of software mechanism. This ON/OFF analogy is so fundamental that most users do not even suspect it is an analogy! They simply think that the button is actually hard-wired to the device. Cool, a hardware button! Finally something simple and reliable to switch off all this complex and buggy software!. Or Damn! Why the hell can't I switch off my WiFi and leave my Bluetooth active so I can use my mouse? that is actually the fault of the old RFKILL input stuff in the kernel. It was wrong and we will be moving this to userspace. So you can actually toggle between it with visual feedback to the user. Let me repeat, every RFKILL before the 2.6.31 kernel was a complete cluster-fuck, heavily complicated and just plain wrong. Check the linux-wireless mailing list archive if you have a day or so. There are quite a few posts about it :) Regards Marcel ___ NetworkManager-list mailing list NetworkManager-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/networkmanager-list
Re: howto ignore rfkill switch
On Fri, 2009-07-24 at 10:30 +0200, Cedric Pradalier wrote: On Fri, Jul 24, 2009 at 10:04 AM, Simon Geard delga...@ihug.co.nz wrote: On Thu, 2009-07-23 at 10:16 -0500, Carl Karsten wrote: Sounds like it would be good to just disable the switch, right? From what I gather, the switch signals the OS, which then runs code to disable the wifi hardware, so overriding that is very possible. Depends on the machine. On some machines the switch just sends a signal to software; on others it physically turns off the wireless. In the latter case (including my laptop), there's nothing you can do, since it's all in hardware... Simon. Well, actually in the case of the OP, the switch has nothing to do with the PCMCIA card, and the card is still on, available and configurable by hand (iwconfig, ifconfig) when the switch is off. It is just NM that decides to disable all wireless possibility even if the switch concerns only the internal card. You've flipped the rfkill switch, thus you do not want to use wifi. If you do actually want to use wifi, there are other, better mechanisms to just kill the card you don't want to use. rfkill is *not* the mechanism to disable a specific card completely. Dan A partial solution was found by using connman (from intel AFAIK) which seems to ignore the switch completely. -- Cedric Pradalier ___ NetworkManager-list mailing list NetworkManager-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/networkmanager-list ___ NetworkManager-list mailing list NetworkManager-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/networkmanager-list
Re: howto ignore rfkill switch
Hi Dan, Well, actually in the case of the OP, the switch has nothing to do with the PCMCIA card, and the card is still on, available and configurable by hand (iwconfig, ifconfig) when the switch is off. It is just NM that decides to disable all wireless possibility even if the switch concerns only the internal card. You've flipped the rfkill switch, thus you do not want to use wifi. If you do actually want to use wifi, there are other, better mechanisms to just kill the card you don't want to use. rfkill is *not* the mechanism to disable a specific card completely. it actually is the right way to kill a specific WiFi card. It is not that useful if you have platform switches in your system that interact with hotplug, but RFKILL works on a per device and all devices basis. At least the re-write coming with 2.6.31 does this correctly. The hardware RFKILL button/switch on your laptop needs to be tied into a userspace policy to decide what to do with external devices. That is out of the scope of the Linux kernel. Regards Marcel ___ NetworkManager-list mailing list NetworkManager-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/networkmanager-list
Re: howto ignore rfkill switch
On Mon, 2009-07-27 at 20:02 +0200, Marcel Holtmann wrote: Hi Dan, Well, actually in the case of the OP, the switch has nothing to do with the PCMCIA card, and the card is still on, available and configurable by hand (iwconfig, ifconfig) when the switch is off. It is just NM that decides to disable all wireless possibility even if the switch concerns only the internal card. You've flipped the rfkill switch, thus you do not want to use wifi. If you do actually want to use wifi, there are other, better mechanisms to just kill the card you don't want to use. rfkill is *not* the mechanism to disable a specific card completely. it actually is the right way to kill a specific WiFi card. It is not that useful if you have platform switches in your system that interact with hotplug, but RFKILL works on a per device and all devices basis. At least the re-write coming with 2.6.31 does this correctly. Most of the people trying to use two cards are doing so because they never want to use the internal one. There are better ways of handling this (blacklisting, etc) *at this time* than using rfkill. Yes, 2.6.31 will work better here. Half the reason NM elected to use global rfkill was because the kernel interfaces sucked up until now. Dan The hardware RFKILL button/switch on your laptop needs to be tied into a userspace policy to decide what to do with external devices. That is out of the scope of the Linux kernel. Regards Marcel ___ NetworkManager-list mailing list NetworkManager-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/networkmanager-list
Re: howto ignore rfkill switch
On Mon, Jul 27, 2009 at 8:15 PM, Dan Williams d...@redhat.com wrote: On Mon, 2009-07-27 at 20:02 +0200, Marcel Holtmann wrote: Hi Dan, Well, actually in the case of the OP, the switch has nothing to do with the PCMCIA card, and the card is still on, available and configurable by hand (iwconfig, ifconfig) when the switch is off. It is just NM that decides to disable all wireless possibility even if the switch concerns only the internal card. You've flipped the rfkill switch, thus you do not want to use wifi. If you do actually want to use wifi, there are other, better mechanisms to just kill the card you don't want to use. rfkill is *not* the mechanism to disable a specific card completely. it actually is the right way to kill a specific WiFi card. It is not that useful if you have platform switches in your system that interact with hotplug, but RFKILL works on a per device and all devices basis. At least the re-write coming with 2.6.31 does this correctly. Most of the people trying to use two cards are doing so because they never want to use the internal one. There are better ways of handling this (blacklisting, etc) *at this time* than using rfkill. Yes, 2.6.31 will work better here. Half the reason NM elected to use global rfkill was because the kernel interfaces sucked up until now. Dan The hardware RFKILL button/switch on your laptop needs to be tied into a userspace policy to decide what to do with external devices. That is out of the scope of the Linux kernel. Regards Marcel Just to remind the original post. We don't WANT to use the RFKILL switch. It is somehow dodgy on this laptop and it switches itself on and off when you move the screen or put your hands on the palm rest. The original question was: is it possible to make NM ignore it? because we KNOW it is not a reliable indication of what the user wants to do. Anyway, thanks for all the useful answers so far on this thread. -- Cedric Pradalier ___ NetworkManager-list mailing list NetworkManager-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/networkmanager-list
Re: howto ignore rfkill switch
On Thu, 2009-07-23 at 10:16 -0500, Carl Karsten wrote: Sounds like it would be good to just disable the switch, right? From what I gather, the switch signals the OS, which then runs code to disable the wifi hardware, so overriding that is very possible. Depends on the machine. On some machines the switch just sends a signal to software; on others it physically turns off the wireless. In the latter case (including my laptop), there's nothing you can do, since it's all in hardware... Simon. signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part ___ NetworkManager-list mailing list NetworkManager-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/networkmanager-list
Re: howto ignore rfkill switch
On Fri, Jul 24, 2009 at 10:04 AM, Simon Geard delga...@ihug.co.nz wrote: On Thu, 2009-07-23 at 10:16 -0500, Carl Karsten wrote: Sounds like it would be good to just disable the switch, right? From what I gather, the switch signals the OS, which then runs code to disable the wifi hardware, so overriding that is very possible. Depends on the machine. On some machines the switch just sends a signal to software; on others it physically turns off the wireless. In the latter case (including my laptop), there's nothing you can do, since it's all in hardware... Simon. Well, actually in the case of the OP, the switch has nothing to do with the PCMCIA card, and the card is still on, available and configurable by hand (iwconfig, ifconfig) when the switch is off. It is just NM that decides to disable all wireless possibility even if the switch concerns only the internal card. A partial solution was found by using connman (from intel AFAIK) which seems to ignore the switch completely. -- Cedric Pradalier ___ NetworkManager-list mailing list NetworkManager-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/networkmanager-list
Re: howto ignore rfkill switch
Hi Cedric, On Thu, 2009-07-23 at 10:16 -0500, Carl Karsten wrote: Sounds like it would be good to just disable the switch, right? From what I gather, the switch signals the OS, which then runs code to disable the wifi hardware, so overriding that is very possible. Depends on the machine. On some machines the switch just sends a signal to software; on others it physically turns off the wireless. In the latter case (including my laptop), there's nothing you can do, since it's all in hardware... Simon. Well, actually in the case of the OP, the switch has nothing to do with the PCMCIA card, and the card is still on, available and configurable by hand (iwconfig, ifconfig) when the switch is off. It is just NM that decides to disable all wireless possibility even if the switch concerns only the internal card. A partial solution was found by using connman (from intel AFAIK) which seems to ignore the switch completely. this has nothing to do with ConnMan or alike. The RFKILL subsystem before 2.6.31 is utterly broken. The only thing that ConnMan does differently is that it matches the RFKILL switch to the actual WiFi hardware and don't apply it to all WiFi devices. However before a 2.6.31 kernel that works so so. The 2.6.31 kernel gives you a proper concept of block/unblock one specific device. Or block/unblock all WiFi devices for example. This is heavily needed since there was a mis-assumption that a WiFi switch should block all devices. That is just wrong. It is an userspace policy what should happen. Regards Marcel ___ NetworkManager-list mailing list NetworkManager-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/networkmanager-list
howto ignore rfkill switch
Hi, I have a laptop with a dodgy rfkill switch. It switches on and off randomly when touch the laptop panel above it. To avoid the problem, I've installed a PCMCIA card but network manager shut it down when the switch goes off. Is there a way to ask network manager to ignore the rfkill switch? Thanks ___ NetworkManager-list mailing list NetworkManager-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/networkmanager-list
Re: howto ignore rfkill switch
Helen Gray wrote: Hi, I have a laptop with a dodgy rfkill switch. It switches on and off randomly when touch the laptop panel above it. To avoid the problem, I've installed a PCMCIA card but network manager shut it down when the switch goes off. Is there a way to ask network manager to ignore the rfkill switch? What driver is used by the internal card? On my system, I have an internal BCM4311 that uses b43, and I also use several USB cards for testing. Before the latest rewrite of rfkill, I was able to switch off the BCM4311 without affecting the USB sticks. Now I have to unload b43, otherwise all radios are killed. Once b43 is unloaded, the position of the rfkill switch is irrelevant. If you do not wish to use the internal device at all, you should blacklist that driver. Larry ___ NetworkManager-list mailing list NetworkManager-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/networkmanager-list
Re: howto ignore rfkill switch
On Thu, Jul 23, 2009 at 10:02 AM, Larry Fingerlarry.fin...@lwfinger.net wrote: Helen Gray wrote: Hi, I have a laptop with a dodgy rfkill switch. It switches on and off randomly when touch the laptop panel above it. To avoid the problem, I've installed a PCMCIA card Sounds like it would be good to just disable the switch, right? From what I gather, the switch signals the OS, which then runs code to disable the wifi hardware, so overriding that is very possible. -- Carl K ___ NetworkManager-list mailing list NetworkManager-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/networkmanager-list
