Re: [NNagain] The non-death of DSL

2023-10-08 Thread rjmcmahon via Nnagain
Yeah, I get it. I think we're just too early for a structural separation model in comm infrastructure. I think when we get to mix & match DSP/optics and point to point fiber in the OSPs, as done in data centers, it may change. But today it's PON at best which implies a communal decision

Re: [NNagain] The non-death of DSL

2023-10-08 Thread Sebastian Moeller via Nnagain
Hi Bob, > On Oct 8, 2023, at 21:27, rjmcmahon wrote: > > Hi Sebastian, > > Here's a good link on Glasgow, KY likely the first U.S. muni network started > around 1994. It looks like a one and done type investment. Their offering was > competitive for maybe a decade and now seems to have

Re: [NNagain] The non-death of DSL

2023-10-08 Thread rjmcmahon via Nnagain
Tragedy of the commons occurs because the demand & free price for the common resources outstrips supply. Free cow grazing in Boston Commons only worked for 70 cows and then collapsed. Over fishing in multiple places today are killing off a "wild" food supply. The regulator tries to manage the

Re: [NNagain] The non-death of DSL

2023-10-08 Thread Sebastian Moeller via Nnagain
Hi Bob, thanks for the interesting discussion, I am learning a lot! I am unsure whether the following is too direct > On Oct 8, 2023, at 18:37, Robert McMahon wrote: > > Hi Sebastian, > > The U.S. of late isn't very good with regulatory that motivates investment > into essential comm

Re: [NNagain] The non-death of DSL

2023-10-08 Thread rjmcmahon via Nnagain
Hi Sebastian, Here's a good link on Glasgow, KY likely the first U.S. muni network started around 1994. It looks like a one and done type investment. Their offering was competitive for maybe a decade and now seems to have fallen behind for the last few decades.

Re: [NNagain] The non-death of DSL

2023-10-08 Thread Robert McMahon via Nnagain
Hi Sebastian, The U.S. of late isn't very good with regulatory that motivates investment into essential comm infrastructure. It seems to go the other way, regulatory triggers under investment, a tragedy of the commons. The RBOCs eventually did overbuild. They used wireless and went to contract

Re: [NNagain] The non-death of DSL

2023-10-08 Thread Sebastian Moeller via Nnagain
Hi Dave, On 8 October 2023 02:07:50 CEST, Dave Taht via Nnagain wrote: >I had found henning shulzerine's projections as to the death of POTs [SM] One argument was that POTs switches were getting hard to come by, but I find this hard to believe that generally stated, hard to come by at prices

Re: [NNagain] The non-death of DSL

2023-10-08 Thread Sebastian Moeller via Nnagain
Hi Bob, On 8 October 2023 00:13:07 CEST, rjmcmahon via Nnagain wrote: >Everybody abandoned my local loop. Twisted pair from multiple decades ago into >antiquated, windowless COs with punch blocks, with no space nor latency >advantage for colocated content & compute, seems to have killed it

Re: [NNagain] The non-death of DSL

2023-10-08 Thread Sebastian Moeller via Nnagain
Hi Dave, > On Oct 7, 2023, at 23:22, Dave Taht via Nnagain > wrote: > > I have a lot to unpack from this: > > https://docs.fcc.gov/public/attachments/DOC-397257A1.pdf Thanks for the link, I think this contains solid arguments for the FCC's current position. I for one am convinced that