Re: [NNagain] jon postel

2023-10-16 Thread Dave Taht via Nnagain
For those that did not know him, there is this, and much more. https://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc2468.txt On Mon, Oct 16, 2023 at 2:15 PM Randy Bush wrote: > > 25 years ago, jon postel died. we stand on the shoulders of jon and > others, a number of whom died in october. not a cheering month for >

Re: [NNagain] state broadband offices

2023-10-16 Thread Dave Taht via Nnagain
On Mon, Oct 16, 2023 at 12:07 PM le berger des photons via Nnagain wrote: > > Dave, you seem interesting and awake and aware of the capacities of your own > mind. Not always! No one is. > > Mr. Chang, to whom you forwarded my message unfortunately for him has a > closed mind, figures he

Re: [NNagain] state broadband offices

2023-10-16 Thread le berger des photons via Nnagain
Dave, you seem interesting and awake and aware of the capacities of your own mind. Mr. Chang, to whom you forwarded my message unfortunately for him has a closed mind, figures he knows it all and has seen it all. And I can tell you that his attitude is based on the brainwashing he's undergone

Re: [NNagain] transit and peering costs projections

2023-10-16 Thread Dick Roy via Nnagain
Good points all, Sebastien. How to "trade-off" a fixed capacity amongst many users is ultimately a game theoretic problem when users are allowed to make choices, which is certainly the case here. Secondly, any network that can and does generate "more traffic" (aka overhead such as ACKs NACKs

Re: [NNagain] The history of congestion control on the internet

2023-10-16 Thread Robert McMahon via Nnagain
We in semiconductors test TCP on hundreds of test rigs and multiple operating systems, use statistical process controls before sending our chips, and support sw to system integrators or device manufacturers. Then, those companies do their work and test more before shipping to their customers.

Re: [NNagain] transit and peering costs projections

2023-10-16 Thread Sebastian Moeller via Nnagain
Hi Richard, > On Oct 16, 2023, at 19:01, Dick Roy via Nnagain > wrote: > > Just an observation: ANY type of congestion control that changes application > behavior in response to congestion, or predicted congestion (ENC), begs the > question "How does throttling of application information

Re: [NNagain] transit and peering costs projections

2023-10-16 Thread Jack Haverty via Nnagain
Starting with the users' view is good, but I think throughput is not the only appropriate metric.   If it was, we should possibly be converting to an avian-based Internet: https://spectrum.ieee.org/pigeonbased-feathernet-still-wingsdown-fastest-way-of-transferring-lots-of-data Or perhaps

Re: [NNagain] The history of congestion control on the internet

2023-10-16 Thread Spencer Sevilla via Nnagain
That Flakeway tool makes me think of an early version of the Chaos Monkey. To that note, Apple maintains a developer tool called Network Link Conditioner that does a good job simulating reduced network performance. > On Oct 15, 2023, at 23:30, Jack Haverty via Nnagain > wrote: > > Even back

Re: [NNagain] transit and peering costs projections

2023-10-16 Thread Dick Roy via Nnagain
Just an observation: ANY type of congestion control that changes application behavior in response to congestion, or predicted congestion (ENC), begs the question "How does throttling of application information exchange rate (aka behavior) affect the user experience and will the user tolerate

Re: [NNagain] state broadband offices

2023-10-16 Thread le berger des photons via Nnagain
Loon's ten years with backing from we don't know where doesn't compare well with Sherwin's 50 years of constant success, billion dollar receipts nearly all plowed back into the business with no expense spared for taking proper care of the employees. For me, the comparison ends with Loon

Re: [NNagain] state broadband offices

2023-10-16 Thread le berger des photons via Nnagain
am I imagining it or have you also noticed that people who send incrementally changed large files (think graphic artists) used to use software to create an executable file which would turn the last version into the new version using a small fraction of the bandwidth? And that they now don't do

Re: [NNagain] state broadband offices

2023-10-16 Thread Dave Taht via Nnagain
On Mon, Oct 16, 2023 at 12:11 AM le berger des photons via Nnagain wrote: > > here is the best idea I've ever run into regarding getting artificial network > connectivity (as opposed to the inborn network we have and have been > programmed to ignore or had our pinneal glands poisoned) out to

Re: [NNagain] transit and peering costs projections

2023-10-16 Thread Matthew Petach via Nnagain
On Sun, Oct 15, 2023 at 9:47 AM Dave Taht wrote: > [...] > The three forms of traffic I care most about are voip, gaming, and > videoconferencing, which are rewarding to have at lower latencies. > When I was a kid, we had switched phone networks, and while the sound > quality was poorer than

Re: [NNagain] transit and peering costs projections

2023-10-16 Thread Tom Beecher via Nnagain
> > So for now, we'll keep paying for transit to get to the others (since it’s > about as much as transporting IXP from Dallas), and hoping someone at > Google finally sees Houston as more than a third rate city hanging off of > Dallas. Or… someone finally brings a worthwhile IX to Houston that

Re: [NNagain] state broadband offices

2023-10-16 Thread le berger des photons via Nnagain
here is the best idea I've ever run into regarding getting artificial network connectivity (as opposed to the inborn network we have and have been programmed to ignore or had our pinneal glands poisoned) out to everybody regardless of how few or many neighbors they have:

Re: [NNagain] The history of congestion control on the internet

2023-10-16 Thread Jack Haverty via Nnagain
Even back in 1978, I didn't think Source Quench would work.   I recall that I was trying to adapt my TCP2.5 Unix implementation to become TCP4, and I asked what my TCP should do if it sent the first IP datagram to open a TCP connection and received a Source Quench. It wasn't clear at all how I