On Wed, Oct 11, 2023 at 3:58 PM Mikael Abrahamsson via Nnagain <
nnagain@lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote:
> On Sat, 7 Oct 2023, Dave Taht via Nnagain wrote:
>
> > Q0) How much DSL is in the EU?
>
> I can add a datapoint here from Sweden. Telia which is the incument
> started shutting down the copper
On Sat, 7 Oct 2023, Dave Taht via Nnagain wrote:
Q0) How much DSL is in the EU?
I can add a datapoint here from Sweden. Telia which is the incument
started shutting down the copper network 5+ years ago, and have announced
that it'll be completely gone by 2026.
Alternatives are fiber
The Markeley Group in Boston charges $2500 to $5000 per month to lease a dark
fiber strand into their colo. The labor to install is on the wanna be isp. One
has to provide the colo switches and pay Colo fees, peering fees and transit
fees. The only long lived parts are the fiber, patch panels
Hi Bob.
On 10 October 2023 02:13:18 CEST, Robert McMahon
wrote:
>Hi Sebastian,
>
>The NRE per chip starts at $100M. It's multiplr semiconductors that now define
>a networks and data centers capabilitied. A small municipal overbuilder is not
>a market maker.
[SM] Sure, a small outfit is
Hi Sebastian,
The NRE per chip starts at $100M. It's multiplr semiconductors that now define
a networks and data centers capabilitied. A small municipal overbuilder is not
a market maker.
So yes, an overbuilder that can't fund ASIC NRE needs to be intimately aware of
both market dynamics and
Hi Bob,
> On Oct 8, 2023, at 22:44, rjmcmahon wrote:
>
> Yeah, I get it. I think we're just too early for a structural separation
> model in comm infrastructure.
[SM] I see one reason why we should not wait, and that is the future-proofness
of the eventually reached FTTH-deployment...
>
>
Hi Bob,
> On Oct 8, 2023, at 22:18, rjmcmahon wrote:
>
> Tragedy of the commons occurs because the demand & free price for the common
> resources outstrips supply. Free cow grazing in Boston Commons only worked
> for 70 cows and then collapsed.
[SM] Here is the thing, if the
Yeah, I get it. I think we're just too early for a structural separation
model in comm infrastructure.
I think when we get to mix & match DSP/optics and point to point fiber
in the OSPs, as done in data centers, it may change. But today it's PON
at best which implies a communal decision
Hi Bob,
> On Oct 8, 2023, at 21:27, rjmcmahon wrote:
>
> Hi Sebastian,
>
> Here's a good link on Glasgow, KY likely the first U.S. muni network started
> around 1994. It looks like a one and done type investment. Their offering was
> competitive for maybe a decade and now seems to have
Tragedy of the commons occurs because the demand & free price for the
common resources outstrips supply. Free cow grazing in Boston Commons
only worked for 70 cows and then collapsed. Over fishing in multiple
places today are killing off a "wild" food supply.
The regulator tries to manage the
Hi Bob,
thanks for the interesting discussion, I am learning a lot! I am unsure whether
the following is too direct
> On Oct 8, 2023, at 18:37, Robert McMahon wrote:
>
> Hi Sebastian,
>
> The U.S. of late isn't very good with regulatory that motivates investment
> into essential comm
Hi Sebastian,
Here's a good link on Glasgow, KY likely the first U.S. muni network
started around 1994. It looks like a one and done type investment. Their
offering was competitive for maybe a decade and now seems to have fallen
behind for the last few decades.
Hi Sebastian,
The U.S. of late isn't very good with regulatory that motivates investment into
essential comm infrastructure. It seems to go the other way, regulatory
triggers under investment, a tragedy of the commons.
The RBOCs eventually did overbuild. They used wireless and went to contract
Hi Dave,
On 8 October 2023 02:07:50 CEST, Dave Taht via Nnagain
wrote:
>I had found henning shulzerine's projections as to the death of POTs
[SM] One argument was that POTs switches were getting hard to come by, but I
find this hard to believe that generally stated, hard to come by at prices
Hi Bob,
On 8 October 2023 00:13:07 CEST, rjmcmahon via Nnagain
wrote:
>Everybody abandoned my local loop. Twisted pair from multiple decades ago into
>antiquated, windowless COs with punch blocks, with no space nor latency
>advantage for colocated content & compute, seems to have killed it
Hi Dave,
> On Oct 7, 2023, at 23:22, Dave Taht via Nnagain
> wrote:
>
> I have a lot to unpack from this:
>
> https://docs.fcc.gov/public/attachments/DOC-397257A1.pdf
Thanks for the link, I think this contains solid arguments for the FCC's
current position. I for one am convinced that
The history of TV is also informative. The NYC "nationals" like NBC won
by controlling the expensive part, quality content production supported
by ads. It seemed obvious that a local could win by inserting their own
ads and ignoring those from NBC as an example. Broadcast rights stopped
that
I had found henning shulzerine's projections as to the death of POTs
very compelling when he presented at ietf 86 back in 2013. I cannot
find the video, but there are all sorts of great charts and data here
worth reflecting about and updating.
I'm ok with letting the local loop go along with the dial up MODEMs.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Dial_up_modem_noises.ogg Technology
marches on. Today, WiFi does that 30 second training tone in 4 usecs per
every transmit and a WiFi is rated at 2.5Gb/s per spatial stream, with
two radios
Sorry they abandoned your local loop.
Timing is everything when discussing the RBOCs, CLECS, DSL ISPs and the
abandonment of the copper plant.
The CLEC DSL ISPs started disappearing after the CLEC equal access rules where
changed in 2004/2005. The RBOCs started abandoning their copper plant in
Everybody abandoned my local loop. Twisted pair from multiple decades
ago into antiquated, windowless COs with punch blocks, with no space nor
latency advantage for colocated content & compute, seems to have killed
it off. I suspect in some towns one can buy out the local loop copper
with just
My understanding, though I am not 100% certain, is that the baby bells lobbied
to have the CLEC equal access provisions revoked/gutted. Before this, the
telephone companies were required to provide access to the "last mile" of the
copper lines and the switches at wholesale costs. Once the equal
I have a lot to unpack from this:
https://docs.fcc.gov/public/attachments/DOC-397257A1.pdf
the first two on my mind from 2005 are: "FCC adopted its first open
internet policy" and "Competitiveness" As best as I recall, (and
please correct me), this led essentially to the departure of all the
23 matches
Mail list logo
