Re: [Opensim-dev] Diva Groups and Offline IM
On 19/02/13 09:25, Toni Alatalo wrote: So this is “a module in core”, while R.Gunther thinks there’s “too much in core and not enough in modules”. So R.Gunther is happy as this is indeed a module? Even though it is in ‘core’. Or? Is there a name/term for the non-module parts of that ‘core’ BTW -- the Opensimulator Kernel or what? Core-Core? (I use that sometimes for Tundra core to differentiate from also-modules-in-central-repo/default-distro, which some others call ‘core’ similarily to opensim speech I think). At this stage, many parts of OpenSimulator that are implemented modules as core to the project, such as inventory access modules and archiving modules. Many, many years ago, a split was done in OpenSimulator to put things in 'CoreModules' and 'OptionalModules' with the intent of moving the optional modules out one distant day. However, I suspect some of those optional modules would now be properly considered core. Whether anybody actually ever removes the 'OptionalModules' DLL I don't know. The line for a 'core' module is somewhat arbitrary since I think it depends on a number of factors, such as how much a particularly piece is infrastructure, how much use it would get, how many core developers are willing to maintain it, etc. And this may well evolve over time. ~Toni *From:* Justin Clark-Casey jjusti...@googlemail.com mailto:jjusti...@googlemail.com *Sent:* February 19, 2013 3:16 AM *To:* opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de mailto:opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de *Subject:* Re: [Opensim-dev] Diva Groups and Offline IM Yes, I think this is a perfectly reasonable kind of thing to go in core, as I would regard it as basic infrastructure. It will be a module in core anyway, and the existing external groups solutions (Flotsam and Simian, for example) will continue to work. I would also like to thank Diva for contributing this functionality - a core groups service is something I've wanted to see for a very long time but never had the time to implement. On 17/02/13 01:54, John Sheridan wrote: I'm just theorizing here, but I would think that common components required for interoperability between grids would need to go into the core. Just recently I finished writing my own offline IM handler in c# only to realize it didn't save messages that came in from over the hypergrid. I've yet to dig in to see why, but after pouring over different examples on how to get profiles working I'm quickly realizing that there is a need for a common way for all of these services to communicate. Its one thing to have your own proprietary communications formats if you're running a closed grid, but in the case where your components need to talk to other people's - that seems to be a different story. For example, with my profiles module I wanted to create a set of data objects (psProfile, psProfilePick, psProfileClassifieds, etc.), serialize them on the sim end, then ship them off to the profiles server and vice versa. After seeing how other projects out there communicate with their server counterparts, it became blatantly apparent that my way would work just fine if it were used on a closed grid but not in a Hypergridded environment where it would need to talk to countless other profile servers that all likely communicate in different ways. I'm pretty sure the same would hold true for offline messaging, groups, and so on. On 02/16/2013 07:32 PM, R.Gunther wrote: Opensim core ? I hope it's going to be a module, and not in the core of opensim. I have the idea there's already to much in core and not enough in modules. On 2013-02-16 21:07, Diva Canto wrote: Heads up: after discussion within core devs, the Groups and Offline IM addons I did for D2 are going to be donated to core opensim. This means that core opensim will have support for these out of the box without having to install any further components (i.e. apache). They work both for standalones and grids. Diva Groups has the optional HG service for supporting groups with foreign users. It also implements notices with attachments, something that is missing from Flotsam groups. It does not implement the voting and accounting features of the viewer (patches welcome). For those using Flotsam or Simian Groups, they're all mutually exclusive -- the config decides which one to use. The code will be added within the next week. If there are any issues or questions, let us know. Cheers Diva _ Opensim-dev mailing list Opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de mailto:Opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de https://lists.berlios.de/__mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev https://lists.berlios.de/mailman
Re: [Opensim-dev] Diva Groups and Offline IM
Yes, I think this is a perfectly reasonable kind of thing to go in core, as I would regard it as basic infrastructure. It will be a module in core anyway, and the existing external groups solutions (Flotsam and Simian, for example) will continue to work. I would also like to thank Diva for contributing this functionality - a core groups service is something I've wanted to see for a very long time but never had the time to implement. On 17/02/13 01:54, John Sheridan wrote: I'm just theorizing here, but I would think that common components required for interoperability between grids would need to go into the core. Just recently I finished writing my own offline IM handler in c# only to realize it didn't save messages that came in from over the hypergrid. I've yet to dig in to see why, but after pouring over different examples on how to get profiles working I'm quickly realizing that there is a need for a common way for all of these services to communicate. Its one thing to have your own proprietary communications formats if you're running a closed grid, but in the case where your components need to talk to other people's - that seems to be a different story. For example, with my profiles module I wanted to create a set of data objects (psProfile, psProfilePick, psProfileClassifieds, etc.), serialize them on the sim end, then ship them off to the profiles server and vice versa. After seeing how other projects out there communicate with their server counterparts, it became blatantly apparent that my way would work just fine if it were used on a closed grid but not in a Hypergridded environment where it would need to talk to countless other profile servers that all likely communicate in different ways. I'm pretty sure the same would hold true for offline messaging, groups, and so on. On 02/16/2013 07:32 PM, R.Gunther wrote: Opensim core ? I hope it's going to be a module, and not in the core of opensim. I have the idea there's already to much in core and not enough in modules. On 2013-02-16 21:07, Diva Canto wrote: Heads up: after discussion within core devs, the Groups and Offline IM addons I did for D2 are going to be donated to core opensim. This means that core opensim will have support for these out of the box without having to install any further components (i.e. apache). They work both for standalones and grids. Diva Groups has the optional HG service for supporting groups with foreign users. It also implements notices with attachments, something that is missing from Flotsam groups. It does not implement the voting and accounting features of the viewer (patches welcome). For those using Flotsam or Simian Groups, they're all mutually exclusive -- the config decides which one to use. The code will be added within the next week. If there are any issues or questions, let us know. Cheers Diva ___ Opensim-dev mailing list Opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev ___ Opensim-dev mailing list Opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev ___ Opensim-dev mailing list Opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev -- Justin Clark-Casey (justincc) OSVW Consulting http://justincc.org http://twitter.com/justincc ___ Opensim-dev mailing list Opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev
Re: [Opensim-dev] Diva Groups and Offline IM
On 13-02-16 03:29 PM, John Sheridan wrote: Really cool, thank you Diva! :) I wonder, per chance could this commit be ported over to 0.7.5-postfixes? It is something I will be looking at to see how easy it might be to backport. Don't know when I might get time to do it with all the projects already on my plate. ___ Opensim-dev mailing list Opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev
Re: [Opensim-dev] Diva Groups and Offline IM
At 23:12 16/02/2013, opensim-dev-requ...@lists.berlios.de wrote: Heads up: after discussion within core devs, the Groups and Offline IM addons I did for D2 are going to be donated to core opensim. This means that core opensim will have support for these out of the box without having to install any further components (i.e. apache). They work both for standalones and grids Good news.. it will be good to eventually have the key services in core... user profiles too one day hopefully to make configuration much easier. For those using Flotsam or Simian Groups, they're all mutually exclusive -- the config decides which one to use. Does that mean that any groups already existing on a grid and used in plot and in-world object definitions will not be shared with the new mechanism Diva? If so, for those using existing groups, and hence have many items in world that have group UUIDs and so on... it would be good if there was some instructions on how to migrate content to the new groups mechanism. Can it be done by manually extracting from the flotsam groups entering data base records for example? ___ Opensim-dev mailing list Opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev
Re: [Opensim-dev] Diva Groups and Offline IM
At 23:12 16/02/2013, opensim-dev-requ...@lists.berlios.de wrote: Heads up: after discussion within core devs, the Groups and Offline IM addons I did for D2 are going to be donated to core opensim. This means that core opensim will have support for these out of the box without having to install any further components (i.e. apache). They work both for standalones and grids Good news.. it will be good to eventually have the key services in core... user profiles too one day hopefully to make configuration much easier. For those using Flotsam or Simian Groups, they're all mutually exclusive -- the config decides which one to use. Does that mean that any groups already existing on a grid and used in plot and in-world object definitions will not be shared with the new mechanism Diva? If so, for those using existing groups, and hence have many items in world that have group UUIDs and so on... it would be good if there was some instructions on how to migrate content to the new groups mechanism. Can it be done by manually extracting from the flotsam groups entering data base records for example? ___ Opensim-dev mailing list Opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev
Re: [Opensim-dev] Diva Groups and Offline IM
On 2/17/2013 2:25 AM, Ai Austin wrote: Can it be done by manually extracting from the flotsam groups entering data base records for example? Yes. The tables are close enough that a migration is possible. I'm sure that someone will figure out the exact SQL commands to do that, in no time. ___ Opensim-dev mailing list Opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev
[Opensim-dev] Diva Groups and Offline IM
Heads up: after discussion within core devs, the Groups and Offline IM addons I did for D2 are going to be donated to core opensim. This means that core opensim will have support for these out of the box without having to install any further components (i.e. apache). They work both for standalones and grids. Diva Groups has the optional HG service for supporting groups with foreign users. It also implements notices with attachments, something that is missing from Flotsam groups. It does not implement the voting and accounting features of the viewer (patches welcome). For those using Flotsam or Simian Groups, they're all mutually exclusive -- the config decides which one to use. The code will be added within the next week. If there are any issues or questions, let us know. Cheers Diva ___ Opensim-dev mailing list Opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev
Re: [Opensim-dev] Diva Groups and Offline IM
NICE..!! thanks :) On Sat, Feb 16, 2013 at 9:07 PM, Diva Canto d...@metaverseink.com wrote: Heads up: after discussion within core devs, the Groups and Offline IM addons I did for D2 are going to be donated to core opensim. This means that core opensim will have support for these out of the box without having to install any further components (i.e. apache). They work both for standalones and grids. Diva Groups has the optional HG service for supporting groups with foreign users. It also implements notices with attachments, something that is missing from Flotsam groups. It does not implement the voting and accounting features of the viewer (patches welcome). For those using Flotsam or Simian Groups, they're all mutually exclusive -- the config decides which one to use. The code will be added within the next week. If there are any issues or questions, let us know. Cheers Diva __**_ Opensim-dev mailing list Opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de https://lists.berlios.de/**mailman/listinfo/opensim-devhttps://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev -- Thank you for reading my email. I hope to receive a replay from you soon... _ *My Opensim/Second Life Blog * http://verwijs.wordpress.com http://verwijs.wordpress.com%20 *(Dutch, basic hardware/software help windows, Mac, Linux) * http://verwijs-pc.nl *My Twitter Page: * http://twitter.com/OpenSimFan *My Facebook page (Be my friend, please ) * http://www.facebook.com/andre.verwijs http://www.facebook.com/andre.verwijs%20 ___ Opensim-dev mailing list Opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev
Re: [Opensim-dev] Diva Groups and Offline IM
Wooh! :D On 16/02/2013 20:07, Diva Canto wrote: Heads up: after discussion within core devs, the Groups and Offline IM addons I did for D2 are going to be donated to core opensim. This means that core opensim will have support for these out of the box without having to install any further components (i.e. apache). They work both for standalones and grids. Diva Groups has the optional HG service for supporting groups with foreign users. It also implements notices with attachments, something that is missing from Flotsam groups. It does not implement the voting and accounting features of the viewer (patches welcome). For those using Flotsam or Simian Groups, they're all mutually exclusive -- the config decides which one to use. The code will be added within the next week. If there are any issues or questions, let us know. Cheers Diva ___ Opensim-dev mailing list Opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev ___ Opensim-dev mailing list Opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev
Re: [Opensim-dev] Diva Groups and Offline IM
Really cool, thank you Diva! :) I wonder, per chance could this commit be ported over to 0.7.5-postfixes? On 02/16/2013 03:18 PM, André Verwijs wrote: NICE..!! thanks :) On Sat, Feb 16, 2013 at 9:07 PM, Diva Canto d...@metaverseink.com mailto:d...@metaverseink.com wrote: Heads up: after discussion within core devs, the Groups and Offline IM addons I did for D2 are going to be donated to core opensim. This means that core opensim will have support for these out of the box without having to install any further components (i.e. apache). They work both for standalones and grids. Diva Groups has the optional HG service for supporting groups with foreign users. It also implements notices with attachments, something that is missing from Flotsam groups. It does not implement the voting and accounting features of the viewer (patches welcome). For those using Flotsam or Simian Groups, they're all mutually exclusive -- the config decides which one to use. The code will be added within the next week. If there are any issues or questions, let us know. Cheers Diva ___ Opensim-dev mailing list Opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de mailto:Opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev -- Thank you for reading my email. I hope to receive a replay from you soon... _ *My Opensim/Second Life Blog * http://verwijs.wordpress.com http://verwijs.wordpress.com%20 *(Dutch, basic hardware/software help windows, Mac, Linux) * http://verwijs-pc.nl *My Twitter Page: * http://twitter.com/OpenSimFan http://twitter.com/OpenSimFan *My Facebook page (Be my friend, please ) * http://www.facebook.com/andre.verwijs http://www.facebook.com/andre.verwijs%20 ___ Opensim-dev mailing list Opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev ___ Opensim-dev mailing list Opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev
Re: [Opensim-dev] Diva Groups and Offline IM
Potentially yes. But it's probably worth a new version number. Diva Groups works well within the limited testing I had time to do by myself; it needs a lot more testing, especially the grid configuration. On 2/16/2013 12:29 PM, John Sheridan wrote: Really cool, thank you Diva! :) I wonder, per chance could this commit be ported over to 0.7.5-postfixes? On 02/16/2013 03:18 PM, André Verwijs wrote: NICE..!! thanks :) On Sat, Feb 16, 2013 at 9:07 PM, Diva Canto d...@metaverseink.com mailto:d...@metaverseink.com wrote: Heads up: after discussion within core devs, the Groups and Offline IM addons I did for D2 are going to be donated to core opensim. This means that core opensim will have support for these out of the box without having to install any further components (i.e. apache). They work both for standalones and grids. Diva Groups has the optional HG service for supporting groups with foreign users. It also implements notices with attachments, something that is missing from Flotsam groups. It does not implement the voting and accounting features of the viewer (patches welcome). For those using Flotsam or Simian Groups, they're all mutually exclusive -- the config decides which one to use. The code will be added within the next week. If there are any issues or questions, let us know. Cheers Diva ___ Opensim-dev mailing list Opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de mailto:Opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev -- Thank you for reading my email. I hope to receive a replay from you soon... _ *My Opensim/Second Life Blog * http://verwijs.wordpress.com http://verwijs.wordpress.com%20 *(Dutch, basic hardware/software help windows, Mac, Linux) * http://verwijs-pc.nl *My Twitter Page: * http://twitter.com/OpenSimFan http://twitter.com/OpenSimFan *My Facebook page (Be my friend, please ) * http://www.facebook.com/andre.verwijs http://www.facebook.com/andre.verwijs%20 ___ Opensim-dev mailing list Opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev ___ Opensim-dev mailing list Opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev ___ Opensim-dev mailing list Opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev
Re: [Opensim-dev] Diva Groups and Offline IM
I don't have much of a user base as of yet, but I'll be glad to do whatever I can to help test. On 02/16/2013 06:12 PM, Diva Canto wrote: Potentially yes. But it's probably worth a new version number. Diva Groups works well within the limited testing I had time to do by myself; it needs a lot more testing, especially the grid configuration. On 2/16/2013 12:29 PM, John Sheridan wrote: Really cool, thank you Diva! :) I wonder, per chance could this commit be ported over to 0.7.5-postfixes? On 02/16/2013 03:18 PM, André Verwijs wrote: NICE..!! thanks :) On Sat, Feb 16, 2013 at 9:07 PM, Diva Canto d...@metaverseink.com mailto:d...@metaverseink.com wrote: Heads up: after discussion within core devs, the Groups and Offline IM addons I did for D2 are going to be donated to core opensim. This means that core opensim will have support for these out of the box without having to install any further components (i.e. apache). They work both for standalones and grids. Diva Groups has the optional HG service for supporting groups with foreign users. It also implements notices with attachments, something that is missing from Flotsam groups. It does not implement the voting and accounting features of the viewer (patches welcome). For those using Flotsam or Simian Groups, they're all mutually exclusive -- the config decides which one to use. The code will be added within the next week. If there are any issues or questions, let us know. Cheers Diva ___ Opensim-dev mailing list Opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de mailto:Opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev -- Thank you for reading my email. I hope to receive a replay from you soon... _ *My Opensim/Second Life Blog * http://verwijs.wordpress.com http://verwijs.wordpress.com%20 *(Dutch, basic hardware/software help windows, Mac, Linux) * http://verwijs-pc.nl *My Twitter Page: * http://twitter.com/OpenSimFan http://twitter.com/OpenSimFan *My Facebook page (Be my friend, please ) * http://www.facebook.com/andre.verwijs http://www.facebook.com/andre.verwijs%20 ___ Opensim-dev mailing list Opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev ___ Opensim-dev mailing list Opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev ___ Opensim-dev mailing list Opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev ___ Opensim-dev mailing list Opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev
Re: [Opensim-dev] Diva Groups and Offline IM
I'm just theorizing here, but I would think that common components required for interoperability between grids would need to go into the core. Just recently I finished writing my own offline IM handler in c# only to realize it didn't save messages that came in from over the hypergrid. I've yet to dig in to see why, but after pouring over different examples on how to get profiles working I'm quickly realizing that there is a need for a common way for all of these services to communicate. Its one thing to have your own proprietary communications formats if you're running a closed grid, but in the case where your components need to talk to other people's - that seems to be a different story. For example, with my profiles module I wanted to create a set of data objects (psProfile, psProfilePick, psProfileClassifieds, etc.), serialize them on the sim end, then ship them off to the profiles server and vice versa. After seeing how other projects out there communicate with their server counterparts, it became blatantly apparent that my way would work just fine if it were used on a closed grid but not in a Hypergridded environment where it would need to talk to countless other profile servers that all likely communicate in different ways. I'm pretty sure the same would hold true for offline messaging, groups, and so on. On 02/16/2013 07:32 PM, R.Gunther wrote: Opensim core ? I hope it's going to be a module, and not in the core of opensim. I have the idea there's already to much in core and not enough in modules. On 2013-02-16 21:07, Diva Canto wrote: Heads up: after discussion within core devs, the Groups and Offline IM addons I did for D2 are going to be donated to core opensim. This means that core opensim will have support for these out of the box without having to install any further components (i.e. apache). They work both for standalones and grids. Diva Groups has the optional HG service for supporting groups with foreign users. It also implements notices with attachments, something that is missing from Flotsam groups. It does not implement the voting and accounting features of the viewer (patches welcome). For those using Flotsam or Simian Groups, they're all mutually exclusive -- the config decides which one to use. The code will be added within the next week. If there are any issues or questions, let us know. Cheers Diva ___ Opensim-dev mailing list Opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev ___ Opensim-dev mailing list Opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev ___ Opensim-dev mailing list Opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev
