Re: [Openstack] nova client support for restore from soft delete ?

2013-01-30 Thread Day, Phil
was available from the nova client. E.g is there a nova restore xxx command ?Looking through the client code I can't see one, but thought I might be missing something. Thanks Phil From: Vishvananda Ishaya [mailto:vishvana...@gmail.com] Sent: 30 January 2013 00:32 To: Day, Phil Cc: openstack

[Openstack] nova client support for restore from soft delete ?

2013-01-29 Thread Day, Phil
Hi Folks, Does the nova client provide support to restore a soft deleted instance (and if not, what is the process for pulling an instance back from the brink) ? Cheers, Phil ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~openstack Post to :

[Openstack] Using durable queues

2013-01-28 Thread Day, Phil
Hi Folks, I'm trying to understand the configuration required to create a durable notification queue for billing with RabbitMQ. As I understand it for messages to be durable there need to be three things: - The exchange has to be created as durable - The queue needs to be

[Openstack] Is nova-client thread safe ?

2013-01-21 Thread Day, Phil
Hi Folks, Does anyone know if the nova-client python binding is written to be thread safe ? We saw some odd behavour when using it with multiple threads, and before digging deeper just thought I'd check if there were known issues, etc. Thanks Phil

[Openstack] Question about flavor_access extension

2013-01-16 Thread Day, Phil
Hi Folks, Can anyone point me to some examples of using the flavour_access extension please ? I've been playing around with this in Devstack, and so far I've found that whilst I can create a non-public flavor and add access to a specific tenant (which I take to show that the extension is

Re: [Openstack] How to create vm instance to specific compute node?

2013-01-03 Thread Day, Phil
Note this is an admin-only ability by default and can oversubscribe the compute node the instance goes on. It is now controlled by a policy (create:forced_host) - so if you want to extend it to other users you can, for example, set up the policy file to control this via a Keystone role Phil

[Openstack] Potential filter scheduler enhancement

2013-01-03 Thread Day, Phil
Hi Folks, and Happy New Year. In working with the Filter Scheduler I'm considering an enhancement to make the final host selection stage configurable. Whilst its sometimes fine to just pick the first host from the list of weighted hosts, the more general case is that I'd like to be able to

[Openstack] Expected behaviour of --meta and --file with --config_drive=True

2012-10-22 Thread Day, Phil
Hi All, Can someone tell me what is expected to happen for metadata and file injection when also specifying a config drive - For example is the metadata file creation (/meta.js) and file injection meant to still work, or get re-directed to the config drive (is that part of config-drive 2.0)

Re: [Openstack] looking for a Nova scheduler filter plugin to boot nodes on named hosts

2012-10-16 Thread Day, Phil
Hi Christian, For a more general solution you might want to look at the code that supports passing in -availabilty_zone=az:host (look for forced_host in compute/api.py). Currently this is limited to admin, but I think that should be changed to be a specific action that can be controlled by

Re: [Openstack] looking for a Nova scheduler filter plugin to boot nodes on named hosts

2012-10-16 Thread Day, Phil
aggregate aware. Cheers, Phil From: Christian Parpart [mailto:tra...@gmail.com] Sent: 16 October 2012 15:35 To: Day, Phil Cc: GMI M; openstack@lists.launchpad.net Subject: Re: [Openstack] looking for a Nova scheduler filter plugin to boot nodes on named hosts Hey all, many thanks for your replies

Re: [Openstack] Versioning for notification messages

2012-10-10 Thread Day, Phil
@lists.launchpad.net Subject: Re: [Openstack] Versioning for notification messages On Tue, Oct 9, 2012 at 4:12 PM, Eric Windisch e...@cloudscaling.commailto:e...@cloudscaling.com wrote: On Tuesday, October 9, 2012 at 15:58 PM, David Ripton wrote: On 10/09/2012 01:07 PM, Day, Phil wrote: What do people think

Re: [Openstack] Versioning for notification messages

2012-10-10 Thread Day, Phil
-bounces+philip.day=hp@lists.launchpad.net] On Behalf Of David Ripton Sent: 09 October 2012 20:59 To: openstack@lists.launchpad.net Subject: Re: [Openstack] Versioning for notification messages On 10/09/2012 01:07 PM, Day, Phil wrote: What do people think about adding a version number

Re: [Openstack] Folsom nova-scheduler race condition?

2012-10-10 Thread Day, Phil
Per my understanding, this shouldn't happen no matter how (fast) you create instances since the requests are queued and scheduler updates resource information after it processes each request. The only possibility may cause the problem you met that I can think of is there are more than 1

Re: [Openstack] Versioning for notification messages

2012-10-10 Thread Day, Phil
: Diego Parrilla Santamaría [mailto:diego.parrilla.santama...@gmail.com] Sent: 10 October 2012 09:18 To: Day, Phil Cc: David Ripton; openstack@lists.launchpad.net Subject: Re: [Openstack] Versioning for notification messages If we want to have a notification system that could handle messages

Re: [Openstack] Discussion / proposal: Ability to reset tenant's quotas to default

2012-10-09 Thread Day, Phil
this in the API) ? Cheers, Phil -Original Message- From: Eoghan Glynn [mailto:egl...@redhat.com] Sent: 09 October 2012 17:32 To: Day, Phil Cc: openstack@lists.launchpad.net; Vijaya Erukala Subject: Re: [Openstack] Discussion / proposal: Ability to reset tenant's quotas to default Isn't

Re: [Openstack] Folsom nova-scheduler race condition?

2012-10-09 Thread Day, Phil
Hi Jon, I believe the retry is meant to occur not just if the spawn fails, but also if a host receives a request which it can't honour because it already has too many VMs running or in progress of being launched. Maybe try reducing your filters down a bit (standard_filters means all

Re: [Openstack] Discussion / proposal: deleted column marker

2012-10-03 Thread Day, Phil
I *think* deleted flavours used to be needed as there could still be instances running against them and the flavour definition was used by the quota calculations. Not sure if this is still the case, or if the data now comes straight from the instances table.Some aspects of a flavour (e.g.

[Openstack] Project specific flavors

2012-10-02 Thread Day, Phil
Hi Folks, Can someone point me to where Nova uses the instance_type_projects information to decide which flavors are and aren't available to a project please ? I can see how the flavour_access API extension sets up entries in the table, but I don't see anything which seems to take that into

[Openstack] Generalsied host aggregates in Folsom

2012-09-19 Thread Day, Phil
Hi Folks, Trying to catch-up (I'm thinking of changing my middle name to catch-up :) ) with the generalisation of host aggregates - and looking at the code it looks to me as if the chain for adding a host to an aggregate still ends up calling the virt layer

Re: [Openstack] Generalsied host aggregates in Folsom

2012-09-19 Thread Day, Phil
), but on xen systems it's still liked to the hypervisor pools ? Thanks Phil From: Joe Gordon [mailto:j...@cloudscaling.com] Sent: 19 September 2012 19:02 To: Day, Phil Cc: openstack@lists.launchpad.net (openstack@lists.launchpad.net) (openstack@lists.launchpad.net) Subject: Re: [Openstack

Re: [Openstack] Which volume API in Nova ?

2012-09-11 Thread Day, Phil
both the compute extension and the Volume API server running. Phil From: Vishvananda Ishaya [mailto:vishvana...@gmail.com] Sent: 10 September 2012 18:08 To: Day, Phil Cc: openstack@lists.launchpad.net (openstack@lists.launchpad.net) (openstack@lists.launchpad.net) Subject: Re: [Openstack] Which

[Openstack] Which volume API in Nova ?

2012-09-10 Thread Day, Phil
Hi Folks, I know things are in transition right now from Nova to Cinder, but can someone shed light on the difference between api.openstack.compute.contrib.volumes and api.openstack.volume ? Thanks Phil ___ Mailing list:

[Openstack] display_name, hostname, and muliple instances

2012-08-30 Thread Day, Phil
Hi Folks, I'm trying to understand the difference between display_name and hostname in the instances table, and struggling a bit to track their use though the code. It looks to me as if: display_name is always the name specified by the user hostname is a

Re: [Openstack] Default rules for the 'default' security group

2012-08-29 Thread Day, Phil
The HPCS portal does this for you via the Nova API when the account is created – we haven’t implemented it as a specific Nova feature. From: openstack-bounces+philip.day=hp@lists.launchpad.net [mailto:openstack-bounces+philip.day=hp@lists.launchpad.net] On Behalf Of Shake Chen Sent: 24

[Openstack] Default policy for flavorextraspecs and flavorextradata

2012-08-01 Thread Day, Phil
Hi Folks, Looking at the current policy.json file both falvorextraspecs and flavorextradata are set to [], whereas flavormanage is [[rule:admin_api]] Seems to me that all three of these should be admin_api - or am I missing something ? Phil ___

Re: [Openstack] Instance stuck in deleting state with error

2012-07-31 Thread Day, Phil
Sorry for a dumb question, but can someone point me to where the authorization is configured to determine who does and doesn't get access to these actions please ? Thanks, Phil -Original Message- From: openstack-bounces+philip.day=hp@lists.launchpad.net

[Openstack] Capacity based scheduling: What updated free_ram_mb in Folsom

2012-07-13 Thread Day, Phil
Hi Folks, I was reviewing a code change to add generic retries for build failures ( https://review.openstack.org/#/c/9540/2 ), and wanted to be sure that it wouldn't invalidate the capacity accounting used by the scheduler. However I've been sitting here for a while working through the Folsom

Re: [Openstack] Nova Cells

2012-07-13 Thread Day, Phil
Hi Chris, What happens to notifications to other compute servers that are generated as side effect of VM creation a result of using the IPtables firewall driver ? Are they somehow propagated to other Cells, or is there something that keeps all VMs in a particular security group within a

[Openstack] bw_uasge counters

2012-07-11 Thread Day, Phil
Hi All, I'm looking at the network bandwidth code with a view to how the current framework could be made to work with libvirt, and a I have a couple of questions that hopefully someone familiar with the Xen implementation can answer: - Do the Xen counters get reset after they are

Re: [Openstack] Setting VM passwords when not running on Xen

2012-07-05 Thread Day, Phil
-Original Message- From: openstack-bounces+john.garbutt=eu.citrix@lists.launchpad.net [mailto:openstack-bounces+john.garbutt=eu.citrix.com@lists.launchpad.n et] On Behalf Of Thierry Carrez Sent: Wednesday, July 4, 2012 10:33 AM To: openstack@lists.launchpad.net Subject: Re:

[Openstack] Time for a UK Openstack User Group meeting ?

2012-07-04 Thread Day, Phil
Hi All, I'm thinking it's about time we had an OpenStack User Group meeting in the UK , and would be interested in hearing from anyone interested in attending, presenting, helping to organise, etc. London would seem the obvious choice, but we could also host here in HP Bristol if that works

[Openstack] Setting VM passwords when not running on Xen

2012-07-03 Thread Day, Phil
Hi Folks, Is anyone else looking at how to support images that need a password rather than an ssh key (windows) on hypervisors that don't support set_admin_password (e.g. libvirt) ? Thanks Phil ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~openstack Post

Re: [Openstack] Setting VM passwords when not running on Xen

2012-07-03 Thread Day, Phil
From: John Garbutt [mailto:john.garb...@citrix.com] Sent: 03 July 2012 16:41 To: Day, Phil; openstack@lists.launchpad.net (openstack@lists.launchpad.net) (openstack@lists.launchpad.net) Subject: RE: Setting VM passwords when not running on Xen This seemed to crop up quite a lot in different

Re: [Openstack] Nova and asynchronous instance launching

2012-07-02 Thread Day, Phil
the update. Do we have something that catalogues the various notification messages and their payloads ? Thanks, Phil -Original Message- From: Chris Behrens [mailto:cbehr...@codestud.com] Sent: 02 July 2012 00:14 To: Day, Phil Cc: Jay Pipes; Huang Zhiteng; openstack@lists.launchpad.net

Re: [Openstack] Nova and asynchronous instance launching

2012-07-01 Thread Day, Phil
Rather than adding debug statements could we please add additional notification events (for example a notification event whenever task_state changes) Anyone that want's log file entries could then use the log_notifier, but those that want to get information like this back into a central system

Re: [Openstack] Nova and asynchronous instance launching

2012-06-29 Thread Day, Phil
However, considering the unhappy-path for a second, is there a place for surfacing some more context as to why the new instance unexpectedly went into the ERROR state? I assume the philosophy is that the API has validated the request as far and it can, and returned any meaningful error

[Openstack] compute_rpcapi ?

2012-06-28 Thread Day, Phil
Hi All, At the risk of sounding badly behind the curve once again, can someone point me to the Blueprint that describes why we now have the compute/rcpapi layer between compute/api and compute/manager please ?I'm guessing that its something to do with api versioning, but a simple overview

[Openstack] Nova API Specification

2012-05-30 Thread Day, Phil
Hi Folks, I was looking for the full definition of the API requests, and I'm a tad confused by what I find here: http://api.openstack.org/ Specifically for Server Create there is both and Server - Create and Server - Extended Create, although as far as I can see the extended create isn't

Re: [Openstack] [Compute] nova-compute does not show up as :-) in nova-manage service list

2012-05-16 Thread Day, Phil
So the things to check are: - Is the nova-compute service running ? If not the nova-compute.log should show why its failing - If it is running then it probably means that its getting stuck on some long running issue (e.g as down loading an image, problems talking to

Re: [Openstack] [nova] why does notification use a topic exchange instead of fanout?

2012-05-09 Thread Day, Phil
Hi Doug, I think you missed my main point, which was that a topic exchange does not impose a limitation that only one client can consume a given notification. That's only true if each client is consuming from the same queue bound to the exchange. So just to be clear, if I understand you

Re: [Openstack] [nova] why does notification use a topic exchange instead of fanout?

2012-05-09 Thread Day, Phil
what Nova currently does to create a shared queue ? Phil From: Kiall Mac Innes [mailto:ki...@managedit.ie] Sent: 09 May 2012 10:51 To: Day, Phil Cc: openstack@lists.launchpad.net; Russell Bryant; Doug Hellmann Subject: Re: [Openstack] [nova] why does notification use a topic exchange instead

[Openstack] Periodic clean-up of fixed_ip addresses in multi-host DHCP mode

2012-04-27 Thread Day, Phil
Hi Folks, In multi-host mode the host field of a network never seems to get set (as only IPs are allocated, not networks) However the periodic revovery task in NetworkManager uses the host field to filter what addresses it should consider cleaning up (to catch the case where the message from

Re: [Openstack] Metadata and File Injection (code summit session?)

2012-04-10 Thread Day, Phil
+1 I was looking at this area earlier in terms of how the system works out what partition to inject keys/files/etc into, which feels like it should be specified by image metadata but currently defaults to partition 1. Made me wonder if we really need so many different ways for instances to get

Re: [Openstack] Limit flavors to specific hosts

2012-04-03 Thread Day, Phil
and then write some matching scheduler filter rules. That's the basic idea, anyway. The exact same behavior will apply to 'cells' and the cells scheduler as well. (Except you'll have cells_capabilities= somewhere (prob nova.conf for the cells service). - Chris On Apr 2, 2012, at 10:36 AM, Day, Phil

[Openstack] Limit flavors to specific hosts

2012-04-02 Thread Day, Phil
Hi Folks, I'm looking for a capability to limit some flavours to some hosts. I want the mapping to be as flexible as possible, and work within a zone/cell (I don't want to add zones just to get this mapping).For example I want to express something like: Host_1 supports flavours A, C

Re: [Openstack] Distributed rate-limiting

2012-03-30 Thread Day, Phil
...@rackspace.com wrote: On Thu, 2012-03-29 at 22:58 +0100, Day, Phil wrote: - As you get the tenant id from the context I assume this module has to come after the authentication in the pipeline. Yes, I have made that assumption. It seems reasonable, given that the existing rate-limit

Re: [Openstack] Validation of floating IP opertaions in Essex codebase ?

2012-03-29 Thread Day, Phil
, Phil Cc: openstack@lists.launchpad.net (openstack@lists.launchpad.net) (openstack@lists.launchpad.net) Subject: Re: [Openstack] Validation of floating IP opertaions in Essex codebase ? On Mar 28, 2012, at 10:04 AM, Day, Phil wrote: Hi Folks, At the risk of looking lazy in my first question

Re: [Openstack] Distributed rate-limiting

2012-03-29 Thread Day, Phil
Hi Kevin, A couple of quick questions: - As you get the tenant id from the context I assume this module has to come after the authentication in the pipeline. Have you thought about using the tenant_id in the URL instead ? (I'm thinking of the case where you want rate limit requests into

[Openstack] Validation of floating IP opertaions in Essex codebase ?

2012-03-28 Thread Day, Phil
Hi Stackers, In Diablo there is a bunch of validation that goes on in the network/api layer, for example when associating an IP to an instance there are checks for: - Is the address allocated - Is it allocated to this project - Is it already assigned to an

Re: [Openstack] Auto Assigned Floating IPs take a long time to associate

2012-03-28 Thread Day, Phil
Are you sure that its Nova that is taking the time to associate the IP, and not an ARP issue in your network ? I've seen this behaviour when quickly reusing floating IP addresses - Nova does the assignment and sends out an unsolicited ARP response (assuming you have the send_arp_for_ha flag

Re: [Openstack] Can't delete instances with error status.

2012-03-23 Thread Day, Phil
Here’s the way we’ve approached this: - A user can always send a delete request for a VM in any state (this is the only action that is always allowed). - Once a VM has a task_state of “Deleting” (set in the API server) the only action they can perform is delete o Hence at

Re: [Openstack] Quota classes

2012-03-19 Thread Day, Phil
+1 And make the whole combine quota/limits module pluggable - so that all of these per-user configuration items can be managed in a central system (e.g keystone) -Original Message- From: openstack-bounces+philip.day=hp@lists.launchpad.net

Re: [Openstack] Quota classes

2012-03-19 Thread Day, Phil
On 03/19/2012 10:42 AM, Mark Washenberger wrote: Out of curiosity, why prefer keystone for centrally managing quota groups rather than an admin api in nova? From my perspective, a nova admin api would save a data migration and preserve nova-manage backwards compatibility. Because more

Re: [Openstack] [NOVA] Possible causes for hung VMs (Diablo)

2012-03-12 Thread Day, Phil
Compute/api sets the task state to deleting at the start of delete() but without updating the vm_state, so if these were VMs that failed to build, or were deleted during the build, then you could get that combination. -Original Message- From:

Re: [Openstack] eventlet weirdness

2012-03-05 Thread Day, Phil
VM. Phil -Original Message- From: Yun Mao [mailto:yun...@gmail.com] Sent: 02 March 2012 20:32 To: Day, Phil Cc: Chris Behrens; Joshua Harlow; openstack Subject: Re: [Openstack] eventlet weirdness Hi Phil, I'm a little confused. To what extend does sleep(0) help? It only gives

Re: [Openstack] eventlet weirdness

2012-03-05 Thread Day, Phil
forward in my perception. Phil -Original Message- From: Yun Mao [mailto:yun...@gmail.com] Sent: 03 March 2012 01:11 To: Day, Phil Cc: openstack@lists.launchpad.net Subject: Re: [Openstack] eventlet weirdness First I agree that having blocking DB calls is no big deal given the way Nova

Re: [Openstack] eventlet weirdness

2012-03-02 Thread Day, Phil
- From: openstack-bounces+philip.day=hp@lists.launchpad.net [mailto:openstack-bounces+philip.day=hp@lists.launchpad.net] On Behalf Of Jay Pipes Sent: 02 March 2012 15:17 To: openstack@lists.launchpad.net Subject: Re: [Openstack] eventlet weirdness On 03/02/2012 05:34 AM, Day, Phil wrote

Re: [Openstack] eventlet weirdness

2012-03-02 Thread Day, Phil
March 2012 19:23 To: Day, Phil; Chris Behrens Cc: openstack Subject: Re: [Openstack] eventlet weirdness So a thought I had was that say if the design of a component forces as part of its design the ability to be ran with threads or with eventlet or with processes. Say if u break everything up

Re: [Openstack] Memory leaks from greenthreads

2012-03-01 Thread Day, Phil
Has there been any thinking around only using eventlet/greenlet for webserver endpoints and using something like multiprocessing for everything else? I was already beginning to think that this would be a good blueprint/discussion topic for the design summit ;-) We've seen a number of issues

Re: [Openstack] Security Group Rule Refresh

2012-02-23 Thread Day, Phil
OK - I'll put a description into lanchpad along with our notes on how we're proposing to fix this on our Diablo branch (as there is a performance related change in here as well) As with the previous performance change it will take us some time to get an Essex compatible fix - but if I provide

Re: [Openstack] Security Group Rule Refresh

2012-02-23 Thread Day, Phil
Hi Soren, Thanks for the insight, a few questions / comments: 1 deal with the situation where a refresh call to one of the compute nodes got lost. If that happened, at least it would all get sorted out on the next refresh. Can see the advantage of this, but on an active system this can

[Openstack] Is there a security issue with qcow2 images ?

2012-01-25 Thread Day, Phil
Hi Folks, I have a half remembered conversation from the Boston summit where someone said that there was a security issue in using qcow2 as a format for creating snapshot images. Does that ring any bells with anyone, and if so can you expand on the potential issue please ? I think it was

Re: [Openstack] F release naming poll - Cast your vote !

2012-01-12 Thread Day, Phil
Am I the only one that sees a mispronunciation issue with Fawnskin ? -Original Message- From: openstack-bounces+philip.day=hp@lists.launchpad.net [mailto:openstack-bounces+philip.day=hp@lists.launchpad.net] On Behalf Of Thierry Carrez Sent: 12 January 2012 09:35 To:

[Openstack] Configure Rate limits on OS API

2011-12-19 Thread Day, Phil
Hi Folks, Is there a file that can be used to configure the API rate limits for the OS API on a per user basis ? I can see where the default values are set in the code, but it looks as if there should be a less brutal configuration mechanism to go along with this ? Thanks Phil

[Openstack] Nova Attribute Groups Blueprint ?

2011-11-18 Thread Day, Phil
Hi Folks, I seem to remember a discussion in Boston that identified a need to be able to group compute servers within a zone by attributes that would be significant to the scheduler - for example a group of servers which share a storage pool, etc. But I can't see any blueprint following on

Re: [Openstack] Is there a reason Nova doesn't use scoped sessions in sqlalchemy ?

2011-11-01 Thread Day, Phil
to fixing the issue in Diablo.Final vs the backport of DB simplification changes from Essex - which I'm assuming will take some tiem yet to work through all of the joinedloads. Phil From: Vishvananda Ishaya [mailto:vishvana...@gmail.com] Sent: 31 October 2011 19:50 To: Day, Phil Cc: openstack

[Openstack] Is there a reason Nova doesn't use scoped sessions in sqlalchemy ?

2011-10-31 Thread Day, Phil
Hi Folks, We've been looking into a problem which looks a lot like: https://bugs.launchpad.net/nova/+bug/855660 2011-10-21 14:13:31,035 ERROR nova.api [5bd52130-d46f-4702-b06b-9ca5045473d7 smokeuser smokeproject] Unexpected error raised: Parent instance FixedIp at 0x4e74490 is not bound to

[Openstack] OSAPI equivalent of euca-get-console-output ?

2011-10-21 Thread Day, Phil
Hi Folks, The title says it all really - is there an OSAPI / nova-client equivalent to the EC2 command to get the console output of a VM ?(I can't see anything in the code or extensions which calls the relevant compute.api method) If there's nothing at the moment are there any plans for

Re: [Openstack] OSAPI equivalent of euca-get-console-output ?

2011-10-21 Thread Day, Phil
if fine ;-) -Original Message- From: Chris Behrens [mailto:chris.behr...@rackspace.com] Sent: 21 October 2011 20:42 To: Jake Dahn Cc: Chris Behrens; Day, Phil; openstack@lists.launchpad.net Subject: Re: [Openstack] OSAPI equivalent of euca-get-console-output ? Ah, I see. consoles.py

[Openstack] API for Configurtaion Drive ?

2011-09-26 Thread Day, Phil
Hi Folks, Can anyone point me towards some documentation on how to use the Configuration Drive feature - in particular does it have its own API, or is passed as attributes to Create Server ? Thanks, Phil ___ Mailing list:

[Openstack] Anyone using multi_host networking with VLANs ?

2011-09-16 Thread Day, Phil
HI Folks, Looking through the code it looks as if all of the changes to support the multi_host Network model have been made in the NetworkManager base class - so although I've only seen a description of this being used in Flat networks I wondered if anyone has tried it in VLAN mode (or knows

Re: [Openstack] OpenStack nova data model

2011-09-15 Thread Day, Phil
Looks pretty good. It's worth mentioning that some (many?) of the tables that deal with Identity information are being removed because they duplicate data in Keystone. So, tables like User, AuthToken, Project, UserRoleAssociation, UserProjectAssociation and UserProjectRoleAssociation may