In a message dated 1/5/2003 4:03:22 AM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:
My preference at the moment is for what water-colourists call
'giclee'. Here they scan their watercolour, and print it
digitally
onto watercolour paper specially sized for inkjet printers.
Yes, aware of
- Original Message -
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, January 07, 2003 10:31 AM
Subject: Re: Fw: Dumb Newbie Q - What Color ARE Color Negatives?
I have finally figured out what is wrong with the photos that
I took with the Pentax 50mm. There is not enough
In a message dated 1/7/2003 4:33:29 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:
I have finally figured out what is wrong with the photos that
I took with the Pentax 50mm. There is not enough yellow! The
leaves would be less blue, the whites (sunlit areas) would be
muted, and the
In a message dated 1/6/2003 12:22:33 AM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:
My
color wheel idea obviously is dumb and wouldn't work,
I actually can see a purpose for that idea. It would make it a
lot easier to set up a colour correction for age/ heat damaged
films.
Hi,
Monday, January 6, 2003, 3:19:32 AM, you wrote:
[...]
That is the part I am still thinking about. And considering what
I want. I didn't really anticipate that to get good photos I
would have to be in collaboration with another visual artist
(the guy at the lab who looks at the prints
In a message dated 1/6/2003 12:22:33 AM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:
William Robb
Didn't want to leave you with the impression I was complaining about more info.
Re: Story about old film and pink prints -- I have a barely adequate color printer.
And I had the the film put
PROTECTED]
Sent: Sunday, January 05, 2003 10:19 PM
Subject: Fw: Dumb Newbie Q - What Color ARE Color Negatives?
Marnie asked me to forward this.
- Original Message -
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Dumb Newbie Q - What Color ARE Color Negatives?
You have mentioned a change in film
Well, I will agree that color slide film typically has a 5 stop range.
However, 18% was chosen as a reference standard long, long before there was
any such thing as color film. Furthermore, simply by changing the films
speed index you can move the midpoint up and down on the film. It is not
Feroze Kistan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I don't know enough about grey cards to comment but I did find this site
when trying to research it:
www.camerahobby.com/E-Book/EBook-Metering_Chapter3.htm. At the bootom of his
site he makes the comment that grey cards are actually 1/2 stop off (12-15%
- Original Message -
From: T Rittenhouse
Subject: Re: Dumb Newbie Q - What Color ARE Color Negatives?
So Bill, you are saying there is no manual setting capability
at all in
these mini-labs? No wonder I could never get adequate control
over my
prints. Long time gone, in the days
I keep kicking around this dumb idea. I've already seen why it won't work. Well, in my
limited knowledge I've seen some of the reasons it wouldn't work. Someone who knows
more about film would probably see even more flaws in the idea.
Film is already DX coded.
Why couldn't film have a color
You don't have to. Just scan and print your photos yourself. The learning
curve is a little steep I admit, but you only have to learn it once. Then
you are the one in control, and the only limiting factor is your skill.
Ciao,
Graywolf
http://pages.prodigy.net/graywolfphoto
- Original
An to make it worse, 98% of your customers can't tell the difference anyway.
Ciao,
Graywolf
http://pages.prodigy.net/graywolfphoto
- Original Message -
From: William Robb [EMAIL PROTECTED]
to be so good China is hosting
its own Photokina in Beijing
Feroze
- Original Message -
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Sunday, January 05, 2003 8:23 PM
Subject: Re: Dumb Newbie Q - What Color ARE Color Negatives?
In a message dated 1/5/2003 12:21:11 PM Eastern Standard Time
In a message dated 1/5/2003 2:39:22 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:
There are 5 billion or so sets of eyes on this planet, each one
sees things differently, and each will have different standards
of what is acceptable.
We can't even determine what the colour white is as a
Very, very OT.
Why is it that taking xmas ornaments/decorations down always seems to take longer than
putting them up? Even though it literally probably goes quicker.
Doe aka Marnie Sigh.
I suspect it's all that wrap and package (box up) 7 tree balls, take a
sip of cheer. Box another 7, another sip.
Before long, you have to renew your sippin' stuff and find more boxes.
Then it's the hand vacuum to pick up all the particles on the floor.
Another sip.
Lament on how they don't make
In a message dated 1/5/2003 4:48:58 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:
I suspect it's all that wrap and package (box up) 7 tree balls, take a
sip of cheer. Box another 7, another sip.
Before long, you have to renew your sippin' stuff and find more boxes.
Then it's the hand
- Original Message -
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Dumb Newbie Q - What Color ARE Color Negatives?
Except I do think there could be more standardization in the
machines used. And maybe a change in film technology. I wouldn't
be one bit surprised if that doesn't happen down
Doe,
One thing that is not mentioned very often when extolling the virtues
of doing it all at home in your digital darkroom is the massive amount
of time that is involved. I know of several pro's who have told me
that digital is taking more time than they used to allocated when
dealing with the
On Sun, 5 Jan 2003 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Why is it that taking xmas ornaments/decorations down always seems to
take longer than putting them up? Even though it literally probably
goes quicker.
Ah, that's because you're probably doing it the boring old way, where you
carefully remove them
Message text written by INTERNET:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Why couldn't film have a color wheel at the beginning of each
roll? Well, not a wheel, but a color band?
Well, it would be pointless, since it would have absolutely no
correlation to the images subsequenly shot on the film.
not to mention film
On Sun, 5 Jan 2003 15:40:20 -0800, Bruce Dayton wrote:
[...] If you took the time to scan and touch up 36-72 images and
then print them all, you might be surprised just how time
intensive it is. Not to mention the person who has just come back
from vacation with 10 rolls.
Or me, who just
Print film colour more accurate?
There are many different print and slide films. Which ones are you
comparing? I'm sure that this might be true for some combinations, but I
have generally found the opposite to be true.
Don
Dr E D F Williams
http://personal.inet.fi/cool/don.williams
Author's
Let me add to Bill's comments with, when you find a lab tech who will work
with you, go where he is, if he moves to another lab, you should too. There
are very few in this day of minimum wage crap who will work with you even in
so-called pro-labs that it is rediculous. You do two things by
William Robb wrote:
Response interspersed.
Sorry, it is fairly long, and fairly technical.
(A very detailed description of color negative processing and printing followed)
Thanks for this great info, Bill. I've archived it in my darkroom file.
Paul Stenquist
Dr E D F Williams wrote:
Print film colour more accurate?
There are many different print and slide films. Which ones are you
comparing? I'm sure that this might be true for some combinations, but I
have generally found the opposite to be true.
Hi Don,
I have found that when scanning
Message text written by INTERNET:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Hi Don,
I have found that when scanning negatives and transparencies, the
negatives tend to provide a better range of more accurate color.
Paul
i have found this to be true only when the scanner has limited dynamic
range. not more bits, but more
- Original Message -
From: Doug Franklin
Subject: Re: Dumb Newbie Q - What Color ARE Color Negatives?
On Sat, 4 Jan 2003 00:59:40 -0600, William Robb wrote:
My response ran to 15kb, which is 5kb more than is allowed
on
the mailing list.
That's odd, William. I just got and read
I know what you mean, but there has to be another word besides dynamic.
There is nothing changing here. I suppose just plain range would be
sufficient, or perhaps latitude.
When you get more bits in a scanner, it's unlikely that you get more
latitude though. The maximum number is always the
William,
Given your responses below...I'm amazed a lab is able to come up with
the right color balance at ALL!
Is there a good subject/color scene one might expose the first frame
to, in order to guide the lab in getting all the rest of the colors
right? In particular, ignoring color at the
just feel like thanking everyone for this very intresting and informative
thread
(esp Doe aka Marnie)
-Sridhar
Hi.
2. Personally I stopped asking for prints from the negatives almost
immediately after I've learned that I could ask the lab to scan my
negatives. They don't do perfect job, but given time and PhotoShop you
could fix perhaps most of the problems. In Israel at least to scan the
36 exp.
Message text written by INTERNET:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
When you get more bits in a scanner, it's unlikely that you get more
latitude though. The maximum number is always the machine code for maximum
brightness and 0 is off - no light emitted from your screen for that color.
What you should get is more
Doe,
Having been around the block with the color thing and having shot 20+
years of slides and the past 4-5 years of negatives, let me give you a
simple observation.
William Robb's discussion of the issues was great! What may have not
been evident is that in order to get the color and control
In a message dated 1/4/2003 12:27:02 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:
As to slides or negatives, if you go the slide route, be prepared to
print them yourself. Any other process is unsatisfactory or very
costly per print (only show pieces are worth doing). The actual
In a message dated 1/3/2003 8:57:29 PM Eastern Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
To answer your final question a properly printed color neg will give you the
best color. The brightness range of a color neg is about 2 stops greater
then a slide which will give you a smoother color and
Doe,
If you are wanting to learn from the bottom/ground up, I feel that
slides may be a better route for awhile. The narrower latitude makes
you learn more about exposure than print film does. It helps you to
get to know your camera and lenses and their behaviors. I learned on
slides and I
- Original Message -
From: Keith Whaley [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Saturday, January 04, 2003 1:51 PM
Subject: Re: Dumb Newbie Q - What Color ARE Color Negatives?
Shall I go to the expense of purchasing some recognized standard color
chart and shooting that as frame one
Got it.
Regards,
Bob
Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy!
- Benjamin Franklin
From: Herb Chong [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Message text written by INTERNET:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
When you get more bits in a
Glad to.
This has been bantied about the internet for some time. First let's consider
what middle gray is. Is it an abitrary shade of gray? No it is the average
scene in mid-northern latitudes in the morning or afternoon on a sunny
summer day. That happens to be about 18% gray. That is why it was
- Original Message -
From: Herb Chong
Subject: Re: Dumb Newbie Q - What Color ARE Color Negatives?
Message text written by INTERNET:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
you have some influence, but not a lot. you take a picture
of something
remotely resembling normal contrast and color across your
- Original Message -
From: Marnie
Actually he said, Oh, I see what you WERE going for.
That correction makes more sense in light of what I said in my
last post -- that it was such an artistic type comment it
stuck in my head.
It may resonate with you. It may not.
It does.
- Original Message -
From: Dr E D F Williams
Subject: Re: Dumb Newbie Q - What Color ARE Color Negatives?
Print film colour more accurate?
There are many different print and slide films. Which ones are
you
comparing? I'm sure that this might be true for some
combinations, but I
Good post, Tom. You nailed it.
Paul
T Rittenhouse wrote:
Glad to.
This has been bantied about the internet for some time. First let's consider
what middle gray is. Is it an abitrary shade of gray? No it is the average
scene in mid-northern latitudes in the morning or afternoon on a sunny
- Original Message -
From: Keith Whaley
Subject: Re: Dumb Newbie Q - What Color ARE Color Negatives?
William,
Given your responses below...I'm amazed a lab is able to come
up with
the right color balance at ALL!
It's not as bad as all that. The machines I run are pretty
maintenace
PROTECTED]
Sent: Saturday, January 04, 2003 10:19 PM
Subject: Re: Dumb Newbie Q - What Color ARE Color Negatives?
Message text written by INTERNET:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
This has been bantied about the internet for some time. First let's
consider
what middle gray is. Is it an abitrary shade of gray
Message text written by INTERNET:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Nope nope 18% is not in the center, unless you say white paper can not
relect mor than 72%. As you can see above 12% is the center of a 7 stop
range and 6% is the center of a 9 stop range. Actually, IIRC, Adams
selected 9% as zone V which would
Marnie, you'll get a lot of responses on this. You've described the
fundamental flaw of color print film: there is a subjective amount of
decision making the printer (person or machine) must make when making your
print, which is precisely the reason slide film gets so much use amongst
people who
Marnie,
I had exactly the same experience years ago: At the lab I went to, the
machine-made 4x6 prints were almost always better than the 8 x 12
enlargements that were presumably made with at least a small amount of human
control! I quickly learned to supply one of their own machine-made 4x6s as
On Friday, January 3, 2003, at 01:36 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Okay, here's another dumb newbie q. I've been trying to figure out how
to word this q for some time and still haven't gotten it right. And it
is a multi-part q, some parts esoteric and some not. I am also sure it
has been
In a message dated 1/3/2003 6:06:32 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:
Okay, here's another dumb newbie q. I've been trying to figure out how to
word this q for some time and still haven't gotten it right. And it is a
multi-part q, some parts esoteric and some not. I am also
In a message dated 1/3/2003 5:07:53 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:
Message text written by INTERNET:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
1. What color ARE color negatives? (color print film)
inverted, at least.
2. Who's to say the original 4x6 prints are right? (Right in the sense
In a message dated 1/3/2003 5:11:34 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Regards,
Bob
Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy!
- Benjamin Franklin
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
1.
Thanks to anyone who has replied so far (read them all, but won't reply to all) and
anyone who replies in the future.
I must say to find out that color negative film can be so subjective when it is
printed has rather astounded me. And appalled me.
I mean -- well, I am still figuring out what
Message text written by INTERNET:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
you have some influence, but not a lot. you take a picture of something
remotely resembling normal contrast and color across your whole roll and
they are likelty to get it right. take 24 pictures of a red barn door and
you could get anything
Message text written by INTERNET:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
But I am also appalled because this is still the condition of color print
film NOW. I mean how long have photographers lived with this subjectivity,
this we aren't sure how it will come out type of situation? How long has
color negative film been
Well, if you really want to get into it you can have quite a bit of control.
There are color temperature meters. There are precise color correction
filters. There are color references that can be used to calibrate
everything. But most of us are satisfied with a more subjective approach
unless we
Hi Doe;
Not a dumb question. Color negative film, especially machine printed, have
the most room for interpretation of any of the mediums.
These are some of the variables;
Brand and model of printer
Brand of paper
Brand of chemistry
How well balanced the channel for the film type is
Where the
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