Re: Fwd: Re: More news of trouble at Ricoh

[Daniel J. Matyola]

On Fri, Jun 23, 2017 at 2:24 PM, Toralf Lund  wrote:

> OMG. That should read, "more *notorious*". Spell-checker didn't agree,


Spellcheck knows what is best for you>

Dan Matyola
http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/danieljmatyola
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Re: Fwd: Re: More news of trouble at Ricoh

[Toralf Lund]

On 23/06/17 20:20, Toralf Lund wrote:

On 23/06/17 20:01, John Francis wrote:

On Fri, Jun 23, 2017 at 03:00:18PM +0200, Toralf Lund wrote:

  On 22/06/17 22:40, P. J. Alling wrote:

It looks like a developer on the Thunderbird team needs to have his 
left
arm ripped off, so that I can beat him about the head and shoulders 
with

it.


Note that the part of the message I quote above only indicates one 
level of
quoting - Toralf's original post simply quoted P.J.'s post inline, 
with no

way to differentiate it from any other non-quoted part of the message.

I've seen the same thing on one of Ann's posts, too.

Is this yet another example of a mail client ignoring mandated 
behaviour?
I think it isn't in this case, but that things get mixed up by mistake 
if you hit delete at the wrong spot, or something. I didn't really 
notice it happening in that message...


M$ Outlook is more notion's when it comes to quoting behaviour, or the 
lack thereof, isn't it?
OMG. That should read, "more *notorious*". Spell-checker didn't agree, 
though.


- T



- Toralf











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Re: Fwd: Re: More news of trouble at Ricoh

[Toralf Lund]

On 23/06/17 20:01, John Francis wrote:

On Fri, Jun 23, 2017 at 03:00:18PM +0200, Toralf Lund wrote:

  On 22/06/17 22:40, P. J. Alling wrote:

It looks like a developer on the Thunderbird team needs to have his left
arm ripped off, so that I can beat him about the head and shoulders with
it.


Note that the part of the message I quote above only indicates one level of
quoting - Toralf's original post simply quoted P.J.'s post inline, with no
way to differentiate it from any other non-quoted part of the message.

I've seen the same thing on one of Ann's posts, too.

Is this yet another example of a mail client ignoring mandated behaviour?
I think it isn't in this case, but that things get mixed up by mistake 
if you hit delete at the wrong spot, or something. I didn't really 
notice it happening in that message...


M$ Outlook is more notion's when it comes to quoting behaviour, or the 
lack thereof, isn't it?


- Toralf









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Re: Fwd: Re: More news of trouble at Ricoh

[John Francis]

On Fri, Jun 23, 2017 at 03:00:18PM +0200, Toralf Lund wrote:
>  On 22/06/17 22:40, P. J. Alling wrote:
> 
> It looks like a developer on the Thunderbird team needs to have his left
> arm ripped off, so that I can beat him about the head and shoulders with
> it.


Note that the part of the message I quote above only indicates one level of
quoting - Toralf's original post simply quoted P.J.'s post inline, with no
way to differentiate it from any other non-quoted part of the message.

I've seen the same thing on one of Ann's posts, too.

Is this yet another example of a mail client ignoring mandated behaviour?


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Re: Fwd: Re: More news of trouble at Ricoh

[Zos Xavius]

I heard some good news today. I'm not in a position to offer details
but we should in the next few months have a clear indication that
Ricoh is not giving up the ship anytime soon

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Re: Fwd: Re: More news of trouble at Ricoh

[Toralf Lund]

 On 22/06/17 22:40, P. J. Alling wrote:

It looks like a developer on the Thunderbird team needs to have his left
arm ripped off, so that I can beat him about the head and shoulders with
it.

Changing mandated mandated behavior of a system. on a whim to "fix"
behavior that no one really complained about, then deciding come hell or
high water that he's right while users scream at him is worse than a sin.

No truly successful organization that I've ever worked for would have let
me get away with that, even if I were right, and this a$$hat is so
obviously wrong, he seems to be wearing his a$$ as  a balaclava.

I know that using the word ass won't get this post banned from the PDML but
I think spelling it with dollar sighs is amusing.

:-)

Nicely summarised, anyhow.

I'll try to keep away from that bug report from now on, as accessing it
can't possibly be good for my blood pressure.

- Toralf



On 6/22/2017 2:53 AM, Toralf Lund wrote:

  On 21/06/17 18:00, P. J. Alling wrote:

Dammit, there was a recent update to Firefox, and the didn't fix the reply
button.   A!.

It seems like one of the Mozilla developers has decided to be one way about
this. Perhaps it would help if more people complained. See

https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1309486


- Toralf




 Forwarded Message 
Subject: Re: More news of trouble at Ricoh
Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2017 10:51:08 -0400
From: P. J. Alling 

 
To: Zos Xavius  
 



The universe is dmed.  Ultimate heat death in only 20 billion
years or so.*

*Your mileage may vary depending on the actual variation of the theory
you ascribe to.


On 6/20/2017 10:46 PM, Zos Xavius wrote:

Pentax is domed!
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Re: Fwd: Re: More news of trouble at Ricoh

[P. J. Alling]

Thanks Toralf, that suggestion makes the change almost palatable.   
You're right.  The actual behavior is still wrong, but until the current 
lead on the bug fix either is fired, quits, retires or or dies, I expect 
that the change in reply to behavior will stay.   Because some people 
are incapable of admitting they are ever wrong.



On 6/22/2017 12:44 PM, Toralf Lund wrote:

On 21/06/17 19:53, Igor PDML-StR wrote:


P.J.,

It would be REALLY strange if the update to Firefox would fix 
whatever problems you are having with Thunderbird...


;-)

On a serious note, speaking of that "reply"-button problem, - have 
you (and everybody else on the list who suffers from it) submitted a 
bug report on it?

If not, - you should.
As I sort of said elsewhere, I did. Unfortunately, the report got 
marked as a duplicate of another issue (which I didn't notice when 
searching), and that issue is marked as WONTFIX. But I'm still shouting.



1. They might not be aware of it.
2. They might not think that change was a problem...
Part of the issue seems to be that one of the developers behind the 
change has decided that it's not a problem, no matter how many people 
say that it is in fact a problem.


3. The priority of the problem fixing is decided by the overall 
loudness (hence the number) of complaints.

... but even some loudness might still help, perhaps...

Meanwhile, I found that the situation gets a little better if you

1. Right-click on the header in the message view and select 
"Customise..."

2. Drag the button marked "Reply" from the main window to the
   "Customise Toolbar" window (so as to remove it from the view.)
3. Press Done in the window I just mentioned.

The message view will then only have a "Smart reply" button which 
alternates between "Reply", "Reply All" and "Reply List" depending on 
the context. (Note that the behaviour changes compared to when you 
also have the "normal" "Reply" button, because then the "Smart Reply" 
then hides itself in some cases.)


Actually, the situation might be acceptable if you could also add 
"Smart reply" to the main tool-bar and have a keyboard short-cut for 
it. There are bug reports related to this, too, but they're not 
exactly new, so there is a question of whether the issues will ever be 
addressed.


I still think the "Reply" implementation is wrong in principle, though...

- Toralf



Igor


P. J. Alling Wed, 21 Jun 2017 09:02:46 -0700 wrote:

Dammit, there was a recent update to Firefox, and the didn't fix the 
reply button. A!.




 Forwarded Message 
Subject:Re: More news of trouble at Ricoh
Date:   Wed, 21 Jun 2017 10:51:08 -0400
From:   P. J. Alling 
To: Zos Xavius 



The universe is dmed.  Ultimate heat death in only 20 billion
years or so.*

*Your mileage may vary depending on the actual variation of the theory
you ascribe to.


On 6/20/2017 10:46 PM, Zos Xavius wrote:

Pentax is domed!








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Re: Fwd: Re: More news of trouble at Ricoh

[P. J. Alling]

It looks like a developer on the Thunderbird team needs to have his left 
arm ripped off, so that I can beat him about the head and shoulders with 
it.


Changing mandated mandated behavior of a system. on a whim to "fix" 
behavior that no one really complained about, then deciding come hell or 
high water that he's right while users scream at him is worse than a sin.


No truly successful organization that I've ever worked for would have 
let me get away with that, even if I were right, and this a$$hat is so 
obviously wrong, he seems to be wearing his a$$ as  a balaclava.


I know that using the word ass won't get this post banned from the PDML 
but I think spelling it with dollar sighs is amusing.



On 6/22/2017 2:53 AM, Toralf Lund wrote:

  On 21/06/17 18:00, P. J. Alling wrote:

Dammit, there was a recent update to Firefox, and the didn't fix the reply
button.   A!.

It seems like one of the Mozilla developers has decided to be one way about
this. Perhaps it would help if more people complained. See

https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1309486


- Toralf




 Forwarded Message 
Subject: Re: More news of trouble at Ricoh
Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2017 10:51:08 -0400
From: P. J. Alling 

To: Zos Xavius  



The universe is dmed.  Ultimate heat death in only 20 billion
years or so.*

*Your mileage may vary depending on the actual variation of the theory
you ascribe to.


On 6/20/2017 10:46 PM, Zos Xavius wrote:

Pentax is domed!



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Re: Fwd: Re: More news of trouble at Ricoh

[Toralf Lund]

On 21/06/17 19:53, Igor PDML-StR wrote:


P.J.,

It would be REALLY strange if the update to Firefox would fix whatever 
problems you are having with Thunderbird...


;-)

On a serious note, speaking of that "reply"-button problem, - have you 
(and everybody else on the list who suffers from it) submitted a bug 
report on it?

If not, - you should.
As I sort of said elsewhere, I did. Unfortunately, the report got marked 
as a duplicate of another issue (which I didn't notice when searching), 
and that issue is marked as WONTFIX. But I'm still shouting.



1. They might not be aware of it.
2. They might not think that change was a problem...
Part of the issue seems to be that one of the developers behind the 
change has decided that it's not a problem, no matter how many people 
say that it is in fact a problem.


3. The priority of the problem fixing is decided by the overall 
loudness (hence the number) of complaints.

... but even some loudness might still help, perhaps...

Meanwhile, I found that the situation gets a little better if you

1. Right-click on the header in the message view and select "Customise..."
2. Drag the button marked "Reply" from the main window to the
   "Customise Toolbar" window (so as to remove it from the view.)
3. Press Done in the window I just mentioned.

The message view will then only have a "Smart reply" button which 
alternates between "Reply", "Reply All" and "Reply List" depending on 
the context. (Note that the behaviour changes compared to when you also 
have the "normal" "Reply" button, because then the "Smart Reply" then 
hides itself in some cases.)


Actually, the situation might be acceptable if you could also add "Smart 
reply" to the main tool-bar and have a keyboard short-cut for it. There 
are bug reports related to this, too, but they're not exactly new, so 
there is a question of whether the issues will ever be addressed.


I still think the "Reply" implementation is wrong in principle, though...

- Toralf



Igor


P. J. Alling Wed, 21 Jun 2017 09:02:46 -0700 wrote:

Dammit, there was a recent update to Firefox, and the didn't fix the 
reply button. A!.




 Forwarded Message 
Subject:Re: More news of trouble at Ricoh
Date:   Wed, 21 Jun 2017 10:51:08 -0400
From:   P. J. Alling 
To: Zos Xavius 



The universe is dmed.  Ultimate heat death in only 20 billion
years or so.*

*Your mileage may vary depending on the actual variation of the theory
you ascribe to.


On 6/20/2017 10:46 PM, Zos Xavius wrote:

Pentax is domed!





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Re: Fwd: Re: More news of trouble at Ricoh

[Darren Addy]

On Wed, Jun 21, 2017 at 6:10 PM, John  wrote:
> They were once both components of Netscape Navigator, but
> that was a few years back.

that was a few decades back.

There FTFY. (Time flies when you are having fun!)
:)
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Re: Fwd: Re: More news of trouble at Ricoh

[Toralf Lund]

 On 21/06/17 18:00, P. J. Alling wrote:

Dammit, there was a recent update to Firefox, and the didn't fix the reply
button.   A!.

It seems like one of the Mozilla developers has decided to be one way about
this. Perhaps it would help if more people complained. See

https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1309486


- Toralf




 Forwarded Message 
Subject: Re: More news of trouble at Ricoh
Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2017 10:51:08 -0400
From: P. J. Alling 

To: Zos Xavius  



The universe is dmed.  Ultimate heat death in only 20 billion
years or so.*

*Your mileage may vary depending on the actual variation of the theory
you ascribe to.


On 6/20/2017 10:46 PM, Zos Xavius wrote:

Pentax is domed!
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Re: Fwd: Re: More news of trouble at Ricoh

[John]

They were once both components of Netscape Navigator, but
that was a few years back.

On 6/21/2017 15:13, P. J. Alling wrote:

Firefox Thunderbird, all the same, amiright?

I checked the Thunderbird fora and it seems they're aware of the issue.

The problem with submitting a bug report to Bugzilla, is that I'd have
to register.  I try to have as little online presence with "real" data
as possible.  Bad enough I have accounts with a number of on line
retailers.


On 6/21/2017 1:53 PM, Igor PDML-StR wrote:


P.J.,

It would be REALLY strange if the update to Firefox would fix whatever
problems you are having with Thunderbird...

;-)

On a serious note, speaking of that "reply"-button problem, - have you
(and everybody else on the list who suffers from it) submitted a bug
report on it?
If not, - you should.
1. They might not be aware of it.
2. They might not think that change was a problem...
3. The priority of the problem fixing is decided by the overall
loudness (hence the number) of complaints.

Igor


P. J. Alling Wed, 21 Jun 2017 09:02:46 -0700 wrote:

Dammit, there was a recent update to Firefox, and the didn't fix the
reply button. A!.



 Forwarded Message 
Subject:Re: More news of trouble at Ricoh
Date:   Wed, 21 Jun 2017 10:51:08 -0400
From:   P. J. Alling 
To: Zos Xavius 



The universe is dmed.  Ultimate heat death in only 20 billion
years or so.*

*Your mileage may vary depending on the actual variation of the theory
you ascribe to.


On 6/20/2017 10:46 PM, Zos Xavius wrote:

Pentax is domed!








--
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Religion - Answers we must never question.

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Re: Fwd: Re: More news of trouble at Ricoh

[P. J. Alling]

Firefox Thunderbird, all the same, amiright?

I checked the Thunderbird fora and it seems they're aware of the issue.

The problem with submitting a bug report to Bugzilla, is that I'd have 
to register.  I try to have as little online presence with "real" data 
as possible.  Bad enough I have accounts with a number of on line retailers.



On 6/21/2017 1:53 PM, Igor PDML-StR wrote:


P.J.,

It would be REALLY strange if the update to Firefox would fix whatever 
problems you are having with Thunderbird...


;-)

On a serious note, speaking of that "reply"-button problem, - have you 
(and everybody else on the list who suffers from it) submitted a bug 
report on it?

If not, - you should.
1. They might not be aware of it.
2. They might not think that change was a problem...
3. The priority of the problem fixing is decided by the overall 
loudness (hence the number) of complaints.


Igor


P. J. Alling Wed, 21 Jun 2017 09:02:46 -0700 wrote:

Dammit, there was a recent update to Firefox, and the didn't fix the 
reply button. A!.




 Forwarded Message 
Subject:Re: More news of trouble at Ricoh
Date:   Wed, 21 Jun 2017 10:51:08 -0400
From:   P. J. Alling 
To: Zos Xavius 



The universe is dmed.  Ultimate heat death in only 20 billion
years or so.*

*Your mileage may vary depending on the actual variation of the theory
you ascribe to.


On 6/20/2017 10:46 PM, Zos Xavius wrote:

Pentax is domed!






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Fwd: Re: More news of trouble at Ricoh

[Igor PDML-StR]

P.J.,

It would be REALLY strange if the update to Firefox would fix whatever 
problems you are having with Thunderbird...


;-)

On a serious note, speaking of that "reply"-button problem, - have you 
(and everybody else on the list who suffers from it) submitted a bug 
report on it?

If not, - you should.
1. They might not be aware of it.
2. They might not think that change was a problem...
3. The priority of the problem fixing is decided by the overall loudness 
(hence the number) of complaints.


Igor


P. J. Alling Wed, 21 Jun 2017 09:02:46 -0700 wrote:

Dammit, there was a recent update to Firefox, and the didn't fix the reply 
button. A!.




 Forwarded Message 
Subject:Re: More news of trouble at Ricoh
Date:   Wed, 21 Jun 2017 10:51:08 -0400
From:   P. J. Alling 
To: Zos Xavius 



The universe is dmed.  Ultimate heat death in only 20 billion
years or so.*

*Your mileage may vary depending on the actual variation of the theory
you ascribe to.


On 6/20/2017 10:46 PM, Zos Xavius wrote:

Pentax is domed!



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Fwd: Re: More news of trouble at Ricoh

[P. J. Alling]

Dammit, there was a recent update to Firefox, and the didn't fix the 
reply button.   A!.




 Forwarded Message 
Subject:Re: More news of trouble at Ricoh
Date:   Wed, 21 Jun 2017 10:51:08 -0400
From:   P. J. Alling 
To: Zos Xavius 



The universe is dmed.  Ultimate heat death in only 20 billion
years or so.*

*Your mileage may vary depending on the actual variation of the theory
you ascribe to.


On 6/20/2017 10:46 PM, Zos Xavius wrote:

Pentax is domed!



--
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to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
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