Not trying to tease - and would rather have this post ignored - but
really, how can anyone try to make Marx into some ecologist just on
the basis of a few pages in Capital on soil fertility. Foster would
accomplish alot more if he stop projecting his own thoughts onto
Marx, and simply present
Ricardo Duchesne wrote:
As one of the most boring books ever written, one which 99% of
Marxist do not have the patience or even temper to read, should we
not but sympathize with poor Darwin's rejection of this offer?
I read *Capital* (Vol.I) several years before I became involved in
Richard Duchesne:
Not trying to tease - and would rather have this post ignored - but
really, how can anyone try to make Marx into some ecologist just on
the basis of a few pages in Capital on soil fertility. Foster would
accomplish alot more if he stop projecting his own thoughts onto
Marx,
Suppose that we look at 2 different scenarios. The economy either
crashes and burns or improves dramatically. Now suppose that someone
went back and reviewed the archives of this list?
How would we look in either case? Would our discussions seem relevant
or instructive?
--
Michael Perelman
Louis not quite here. It was only with the onset of the Cotton Famine that
they began to take the environment seriously. I have written in my Marx book
that he took the environment more seriously than he let on because he feared
giving too much credence to the Malthusians.
Louis Proyect wrote:
I thought we all knew long ago about their materialism. Passages like
the one cited below - and I know there are a few others - are in no way
sufficient to ground a theory that would be called "Marxist Ecology".
And we all know what the Soviets did to their environment with their
Michael wrote:
Suppose that we look at 2 different scenarios. The economy either
crashes and burns or improves dramatically. Now suppose that someone
went back and reviewed the archives of this list?
How would we look in either case? Would our discussions seem relevant
or instructive?
It
Mayer, Thomas. 1999. Monetary Policy and the Great inflation in
the United States: the Federal Reserve and the Failure of
Macroeconomic policy, 1965-1979 (Cheltenham, UK: Edward Elgar).
viii Preface: "When starting out I thought that I would land up
with a scathing criticism of the
It was just Vol. II which he offered to Darwin. Which other book
would you say is a literary masterpiece?
Ricardo Duchesne wrote:
As one of the most boring books ever written, one which 99% of
Marxist do not have the patience or even temper to read, should we
not but sympathize
At 09:57 AM 5/8/00 -0500, you wrote:
As one of the most boring books ever written, one which 99% of
Marxist do not have the patience or even temper to read, should we
not but sympathize with poor Darwin's rejection of this offer?
since when do we let mere boredom stand in our way?
Richard Duchesne:
Not trying to tease - and would rather have this post ignored - but
really, how can anyone try to make Marx into some ecologist just on
the basis of a few pages in Capital on soil fertility. Foster would
accomplish alot more if he stop projecting his own thoughts onto
At 08:33 PM 5/7/00 -0700, you wrote:
Milton Friedman saw the balance of payments deficit early on as an opportunity
to eliminate fixed exchange rates, which he saw as a form of government
control.
should socialists be in favor of fixed exchange rates? under capitalism?
under socialism?
Jim
Ricardo Duchesne wrote:
Not trying to tease - and would rather have this post ignored - but
really, how can anyone try to make Marx into some ecologist just on
the basis of a few pages in Capital on soil fertility. Foster would
accomplish alot more if he stop projecting his own thoughts onto
Louis Proyect wrote:
In the USA economic woes tend to get framed in terms of
whether Teamsters, for example, will be able to fend off Mexican trucks.
Over on the Marxism list, the discussion was focused on the Argentina
truckers union led by Moyano who led a march against anti-labor legislation
Jim Devine wrote:
At 09:57 AM 5/8/00 -0500, you wrote:
As one of the most boring books ever written, one which 99% of
Marxist do not have the patience or even temper to read, should we
not but sympathize with poor Darwin's rejection of this offer?
since when do we let mere boredom
from Shuger's daily news summary in SLATE (May 8, 2000):
The USA [TODAY] account of the crime stats [in the U.S.] broaches the
matter of explanation in the fourth paragraph, with a quote from a former
NYPD commissioner strongly suggesting the reasons for the decline are
rising incarceration
Once again I took it for granted everyone knew it was only Vol. II which
Marx offered to Darwin. On boredom, I would add it is not something
which we experience during tedious work only, but when we have
"nothing to do". It is also a time when we do more than we realize;
in the broken bits of
Hmm, well how about the AFL-CIO's changed stance on immigration, and
the successes organizing janitors in LA? Why can't we replicate that
in NYC? Sometimes relevant and interesting things happen, or don't
happen, in one's own backyard.
Doug
Actually, I was the one who tried to initiate some
At 08:32 AM 5/8/00 -0700, you wrote:
Mayer, Thomas. 1999. Monetary Policy and the Great inflation in the United
States: the Federal Reserve and the Failure of Macroeconomic policy,
1965-1979 (Cheltenham, UK: Edward Elgar).viii Preface: "When starting out
I thought that I would land up
At 08:18 AM 5/8/00 -0700, you wrote:
Suppose that we look at 2 different scenarios. The economy either
crashes and burns or improves dramatically.
Why only two scenarios? Thomas Palley's instructive article in CHALLENGE a
few issues ago had at least three possible scenarios (soft landing,
Louis Proyect wrote:
If you narrowed the search to posts by Jim Devine, you'd find
them extremely relevant.
Absolutely.
The problem is that very few people with his kinds
of expertise feel motivated apparently to write analyses on PEN-L.
Without denigrating Jim, for whom I have
Changing demographics are also important.
--
Michael Perelman
Economics Department
California State University
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Chico, CA 95929
530-898-5321
fax 530-898-5901
Jim Devine wrote:
What's the leftist explanation of this trend?
A couple of years ago, I interviewed a bunch of crime pundits on the
downtrend. The consensus was: 1) the decline of crack (driven,
several of them said, by younger people seeing how ravaged their
older siblings and neighbors
I just looked through a couple of pages. I will not look at it again
until after finals are graded. Yuk. I love teaching but I consider my
grading work to be comparable to a beef inspector for the USDA. Chico,
2001. GPA 2.34, etc. Just so that the corporations know where to herd
the members
G'day Mike Louis,
Sez Louis:
It depends. If you narrowed the search to posts by Jim Devine, you'd find
them extremely relevant. The problem is that very few people with his kinds
of expertise feel motivated apparently to write analyses on PEN-L. Whether
this is because of time constraints or
Once again, American workers at the lower rungs of the pay
scale are being asked to sacrifice their jobs and wages on the altar of
"free trade," so that the poorer countries of the world might pursue
an economic development strategy that offers little hope for the vast
majority of their own
Has anyone else here read R.P. Wolff's lovely litearry appreciation of Capital,
Moneybags Should be So Lucky? Also, SS Prawer has a nice book on Karl Marx and World
Literature, which is an old-fashioned (i.e. pre-Theory) lit critter's approach to
Cpitala nd a lot more. As someone who has
No, you're not trying to tease, you're trying to provoke, otherwise
you would have ignored the post. There's enough reflexive
anti-Marxism in the world without having to read it on PEN-L too.
Doug
Depending on the reader, he/she may say am trying to enrage or
infuriate, as you do, or
Has anyone else here read R.P. Wolff's lovely litearry appreciation
of Capital, Moneybags Should be So Lucky?
Yes...
If Wolff is correct in his assessment of what Marx is trying to do in
chapter 1, volume 1, then all I can say is that Marx failed--that
Wolff is perhaps the first and only
Ricardo Duchesne wrote:
It was just Vol. II which he offered to Darwin. Which other book
would you say is a literary masterpiece?
Here we are talking about a book which was never written (Vol. II).
Had it gotten to the point where the dedication had been relevant,
it would presumably have
At 09:22 AM 5/8/00 -0700, you wrote:
Has anyone else here read R.P. Wolff's lovely litearry appreciation of
Capital, Moneybags Should be So Lucky?
Yes...
If Wolff is correct in his assessment of what Marx is trying to do in
chapter 1, volume 1, then all I can say is that Marx failed--that
Since capital is so much more mobile than labor, the free movement of
capital will give far more advantages to the employers then the employees.
Part of the story is also the opening up of agriculture to free trade so
that people will be swept off the land and forced into low-wage jobs which
RE Michael's message
Regression of growth rates on dummy variables as to
whether countries play baseball or cricket, baseball playing
countries have significantly higher rates of growth. Wall, H.
J. 1995. "Cricket vs. Baseball as an Engine of Growth." Royal
Why this extraordinary desire to keep Africa from exporting textiles
to the U.S.--to keep Africa poor and keep Roger Milliken rich?
Someone calls this attitude "getting high on paradise": that the West
may find redemption by returning to the innocence and purity of the
past and that
BBC
Saturday, 6 May, 2000, 09:30 GMT 10:30
Chinese workers desert state sector
By Duncan Hewitt in Beijing
An official survey in China has given further evidence of the dramatic
changes in the country's economy.
The nationwide survey found that in the last two decades, the proportion of
Since capital is so much more mobile than labor, the free movement of
capital will give far more advantages to the employers then the employees.
Part of the story is also the opening up of agriculture to free trade so
that people will be swept off the land and forced into low-wage jobs which
You are misreading the point. The point was not about Marxists' sympathy
with Darwin's rejection of the offer. Of course, it was a nice behavior
that Darwin did not want to popularize himself, so let's give credit to
him. However, this was not simply an ethical concern or political
correctness
Besides the problems with the article (which i have not read in details),
the fact that Indians make "commercial movies" should not lead you to
normalize the brutality of western imperialism and epidemic violence done
to third world people. did you ever attempt to think why Indian directors
Yes, baseball is like craft-based capitalism; football more like Taylorist
capitalism with enormous specialization and clock management. Cricket is
supposed to reflect a more feudal economy.
Eric Nilsson wrote:
Actually, a literature on the link between baseball (and sports in general)
and
Margaret Fay wrote about the letter to Darwin. It was from Aveling, not Marx.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
You are misreading the point. The point was not about Marxists' sympathy
with Darwin's rejection of the offer. Of course, it was a nice behavior
that Darwin did not want to popularize
Much of the poverty of Africa has to do with the devastation imposed by Europe
and North America. Yes, they have been plauged by corrupt leaders also, but
that was probably also fostered by the same powers.
Now, the idea is to intergrate more closely into the global economy with a
minimum of
I know that the letter was from Aveling.What about Gould's claim that
there was a correpondence between Marx and Darwin? Is this another
correpondence? or is Gould making up?
Mine
Margaret Fay wrote about the letter to Darwin. It was from Aveling, not
Marx.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
You
I understood that the private businesses pay less and have inferior working
conditions. Why the desertion? It sounds like the boot.
--
Michael Perelman
Economics Department
California State University
Chico, CA 95929
Tel. 530-898-5321
E-Mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Besides the problems with the article (which i have not read in details),
the fact that Indians make "commercial movies" should not lead you to
normalize the brutality of western imperialism and epidemic violence done
to third world people. did you ever attempt to think why Indian directors
shift
Much of the poverty of Africa has to do with the devastation imposed by Europe
and North America. Yes, they have been plauged by corrupt leaders also, but
that was probably also fostered by the same powers.
Now, the idea is to intergrate more closely into the global economy with a
minimum of
I think that Gould is wrong.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I know that the letter was from Aveling.What about Gould's claim that
there was a correpondence between Marx and Darwin? Is this another
correpondence? or is Gould making up?
Mine
Margaret Fay wrote about the letter to Darwin. It was
I meant an early form of capitalism in which small capitalists hired skilled
labor; i.e. master, journeyman,
Jim Devine wrote:
At 01:06 PM 5/8/00 -0700, you wrote:
Yes, baseball is like craft-based capitalism;
I think that the phrase "craft-based capitalism" is somewhat contradictory.
At 09:09 AM 5/8/00 -0700, you wrote:
Once again, American workers at the lower rungs of the pay
scale are being asked to sacrifice their jobs and wages on the altar of
"free trade," so that the poorer countries of the world might pursue
an economic development strategy that offers little hope
Michael P writes:
Roger M. will do ok either way. Just because it is in his interest
to oppose such arrangements does not make the opposition irrational.
it's important to avoid Brad's style of argument here, which seems
similar to guilt-by-association: If Roger Milliken (boo, hiss) is
for
Brad De Long wrote:
I pointed out that Roger Milliken--American textile capital--thinks
that AGOA is not in his material interest, suggesting that (as I
believe) the beneficiaries from AGOA will be (among others) African
labor.
Milliken is pretty alone in his industry, as far as I know. Most
Brad, this sentence does not belong to me. My post was a reply to Ricardo's
post about Indian film producers. please, read Ricardo's entire response, then
you will make the connection.
merci,
Mine
I did not write:
Why this extraordinary desire to keep Africa from exporting textiles
to
It has been established long ago that Marx did not offer to dedicate
Capital to Darwin. Check Louis Feuer's article in the Journal of the
History of Ideas, (some time in the 1970s).
Rod Hay
Carrol Cox wrote:
Ricardo Duchesne wrote:
As one of the most boring books ever written, one which
I strongly think so too, but i spying on him. there is something fishy there..
Mine
Michael Perelman wrote:
I think that Gould is wrong.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I know that the letter was from Aveling.What about Gould's claim that
there was a correpondence between Marx and Darwin? Is
I would have to side with Lou here. Marx did write about the relations between
society and nature throughout his career. Otherwise, it is impossible to discuss
human labour. His life long interest in the works of Aristotle and Hegel indicate
that.
That is not the same as saying that "took the
Michael P writes:
Roger M. will do ok either way. Just because it is in his interest to
oppose such arrangements does not make the opposition irrational.
I wrote:
it's important to avoid Brad's style of argument here, which seems
similar to guilt-by-association: If Roger Milliken (boo, hiss)
Wouldn't it behoove us to find out whether the firms that will make the
textiles etc. are Northern Corps. out to simply set up shop to capture rents
from the wage differential. If they are, say, US corps. then the suggestion
that some sort of levy or tax on their "import"[ation] into the US so
Brad De Long wrote:
BULLSHIT!!!
Jim should not have made such a direct accusation and you should be a bit
more moderate in your response.
Michael Perelman said that he was opposed to AGOA because capital was
internationally mobile--hence the beneficiaries from AGOA are not
(African)
Rod, what Marx wrote early on about nature was relatively utopian and naive. Only
after the US Civil war did he begin to look more deeply.
Rod Hay wrote:
I would have to side with Lou here. Marx did write about the relations between
society and nature throughout his career. Otherwise, it is
if the (neo)liberals in government (a group that included Brad
awhile ago) would push to adequately compensate workers who lose
their jobs due to trade-related problems (not to mention capital
flight), then you would see many fewer unions and pro-union folks
siding with slimy folks like
Michael. I am making a distinction between writing about nature and writing about the
environment. What he wrote about nature or more correctly about the mediate and
immediate relations of purposeful human activity to nature (i.e. labour), is on a
fairly abstract philosophical level. When he
if the (neo)liberals in government (a group that included Brad
awhile ago) would push to adequately compensate workers who lose
their jobs due to trade-related problems (not to mention capital
flight), then you would see many fewer unions and pro-union folks
siding with slimy folks like
http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/D?c106:5:./temp/~c106uyCI0L:e76497:
SEC. 402. TRADE ADJUSTMENT ASSISTANCE FOR TEXTILE AND APPAREL WORKERS.
Notwithstanding any other provision of law, workers in textile and apparel
firms who lose their jobs or are threatened with job loss as a result of
No more unknown governors from small southern states...
How about senators from small southern states who are known only because of
the success of their 1992 running mates (and who have been simply following
orders for the last 7 years) or governors from large southern states who
are known
actually, there is hardly any opposition to neo-liberal program in the US.
United Steel Workers already allied with big steel industry to protect US jobs,
thanks to bourgeois unions. Free trade and protectionism are the sides of the
same coin=imperialism, capitalism and core hegemony, which is
At 00:28 08/03/00 +, Louis Proyect wrote:
Is it also not time that the marxist internet left starts to turn on Putin?
Where is there any leadership on this?
Chris Burford
London
You won't hear much about Putin on this mailing list but I have been
battling supporters of Putin on the
At 12:09 AM 5/9/00 +0100, you wrote:
The left has fallen into the trap of thinking that it should not criticise
this Russian regime too much, for fear of appearing to ally with its own
ruling class.
I don't know about that. I, for one, likened Putin's rise to power to a
covert coup d'etat.
I
All the reports that I get indicate that the sweatshop workers do not get a
living wage. Their money wage may be greater than their parents, but their
parents had access to the food production and the light that was not priced
on the market. So the money wage is misleading.
Brad De Long wrote:
Michael Perelman wrote:
All the reports that I get indicate that the sweatshop workers do not get a
living wage. Their money wage may be greater than their parents, but their
parents had access to the food production and the light that was not priced
on the market. So the money wage is
Doug, what you say bears some resemblance to the reports that people gave about
the girls who worked in the Lowell textile mills. They were younger, single and
had no responsibilities. The horror stories that I hear relate to the young
girls that have responsibilities, especially children.
Brad, I cannot follow what is that your saying.
Ummm...
You said that AGOA was in Milliken's interest--that capital was more
mobile than labor, and hence that (American) capital would benefit
rather than (African) labor from removing the quotas on exports of
textiles from Africa.
Are you
In a message dated 00-05-08 18:36:14 EDT, you write:
No more unknown governors from small southern states...
What about relatively well known ex-Senators from small Southern states,
Brad? --jks
As a general trend is that more cost effective than simply taking wages "out
of competition" on an international scale? Or should global wage deflation
in goods with substantial international competition remain the norm for
another 40-50 years as firms relocate down the labor cost curve?
Ian
I agree with Micheal. Workers earning their livings in sweatshops do not
even get a living wage. Let's not make the situation look better.
Particulary, women workers are more vulnerable to exploitation in this
process.It is true that most of the women in this part of the world come
to cities to
Here it is! did the "wire service reporter" interview with women beaten by
Nike capitalists?
Thanks for posting this significant information..
Mine
The Denver Post, April 8, 1998
BUSINESS ANYTHING BUT USUAL FOR NIKE IN VIETNAM
CRITICISM INTENSIFIES OVER LOW PAY AND TREATMENT OF FACTORY
The following is excerpted from an article in the Christian
Science Monitor. In an era where Marx and Lenin were declared irrelevant a few
years ago, it is interesting to see how even mainstream commentators are
grappling with the debates and concepts today.
Readers are encouraged to
You Can't Take It With You When You Go
I've got a friend who's a workaholic, never knows when to quit
Me I knock off early, oh, every chance I get
He's got an IRA for a rainy day, but I wonder if he knows
That you can't take it with you when you go
While I'm out fishing, you bet he's working
Louis Proyect wrote:
In an act that amounted to charity, Bartok was appointed a research fellow
in anthropology without teaching duties at Columbia University. According
to an article by Paul Hume in the March 22, 1981 Washington Post,
"Unhappily the funds, limited at best, that paid
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