The SMILE concept

2001-04-24 Thread Chris Burford
At 23/04/01 21:37 -0300, John R Henry wrote: I am interested in economics and paticularly interested in Marxist and left economics. My interest is from curiosity rather than belief. John Henry's questions are challenging for this list, but they do come from rather a different frame of

TDR2

2001-04-24 Thread ALI KADRI
REFORMING THE INTERNATIONAL FINANCIAL ARCHITECTURE UNCTAD CALLS FOR “EVEN-HANDED” APPROACH BETWEEN DEBTORS AND CREDITORS Rather than focusing on international action to address systemic instability, the process of reforming the international financial architecture has

TDR

2001-04-24 Thread ALI KADRI
WORLD ECONOMY RATTLED BY US SLOWDOWN, SAYS UNCTAD, CALLING FOR BOLD RESPONSES Rather than pulling up strongly together as many expected six months ago, the leading economies have all been heading downwards, following a sharp slowdown in the United States. With emerging markets still vulnerable

french labour law

2001-04-24 Thread ALI KADRI
recently Marks and spencer decided to close down in france and lay off its employees. Today the french labour minister decided to give unions more say in redundancy matters. she thinks that a firm cannot off hand dispense with the employees as it pleases. i do not know of these measures will go

Re: The SMILE concept

2001-04-24 Thread John Henry
Michael Perelman has unsubbed me from PEN-L because he does not consider me progressive. I don't know if this note will make it to the list so am copying you directly. John Henry's questions are challenging for this list, but they do come from rather a different frame of reference than most.

Thai PM calls for new Asian economic manifesto

2001-04-24 Thread Bill Rosenberg
PM calls for new Asian economic manifesto The Nation, 24 April 2001 BANGKOK, April 23 (AFP) -- Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra Monday urged developing Asian nations to abandon economic policies modelled after the United States and Japan at the opening of a UN conference here. Economic

Globalization and sweatshops

2001-04-24 Thread John Henry
Two interesting articles in today's (4/24/01) NY Times: http://www.nytimes.com/2001/04/24/opinion/24FRIE.html April 24, 2001 FOREIGN AFFAIRS Protesting for Whom? By THOMAS L. FRIEDMAN CCRA, Ghana — I thought

Re: models

2001-04-24 Thread Fred Guy
Jim Devine writes: I'm not convinced. The Fordist production techniques that prevailed before the neoliberal or Post-Fordist era involved large economies of scale. Though the companies benefited from protection (and it seems to be true that international direct investment used to be mostly

Re: Globalization and sweatshops

2001-04-24 Thread Doug Henwood
John Henry wrote: John R Henry CPP Visit the Quick Changeover website at http://www.changeover.com http://www.changeover.com/johnh.htm I am an IOPP Certified Packaging Professional (CPP). This certification was awarded on the basis of experience and a paper which I presented on the

Sweatshop 'progress'

2001-04-24 Thread Louis Proyect
NY Times, April 24, 2001 Labor Standards Clash With Global Reality By LESLIE KAUFMAN and DAVID GONZALEZ SAN SALVADOR - Six years ago, Abigail Martínez earned 55 cents an hour sewing cotton tops and khaki pants. Back then, she says, workers were made to spend 18-hour days in an unventilated

Re: Re: models

2001-04-24 Thread John Henry
At 01:43 PM 4/24/2001 +0100, you wrote: Jim Devine writes: I'm not convinced. The Fordist production techniques that prevailed before the I've run across several references to Fordist and Fordism, generally with reference to manufacturing in some way. Is this Henry Ford we are talking about?

A reply to Thomas Friedman

2001-04-24 Thread Louis Proyect
NY Times, April 24, 2001 FOREIGN AFFAIRS Protesting for Whom? By THOMAS L. FRIEDMAN ACCRA, Ghana - I thought about going to the Quebec Summit of the Americas, but I lost my gas mask so I decided to go to Africa instead. It's interesting listening to Africans talk about globalization. While

bank vs dispersed shareholders / was adios T-bill

2001-04-24 Thread Charles Brown
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 04/09/01 04:39PM Charles Brown wrote: CB: I thought central banks weren't important in the Anglo-American ,as opposed to German, system ? Central banks - e.g., the Federal Reserve, the Bank of Japan, the European Central Bank - are extremely important. Without them, the

Book announcement

2001-04-24 Thread Louis Proyect
Loren Goldner. VANGUARD OF RETROGRESSION. Post-Modern Fictions as Ideology in the Era of Ficticious Capital. New York, Queequeg Publications, 2001. ISBN 0-9700308-1-9. 131 p. $10. Marx/Third Millennium Series. Order with check or money order from Queequeg Publications, PO Box 672355, New York

Re: Re: Low productivity in the Global South

2001-04-24 Thread jdevine
I wrote: Actually, it doesn't make PK look stopid. Not only did he say that he understands that sweatshop conditions are horrible but he's got an out: the problem is that there aren't _enough_ sweatshops. We should have free flow of capital all over the world, which would mean that the

RE: john henry

2001-04-24 Thread Forstater, Mathew
John F. Henry is not the John R. Henry that has been posting to pen-l. As soon as I saw the first note from John R. Henry on reparations last week, I immediately knew it could not be *my* John Henry, and checked his middle initial. I saw John F. at the AFIT meetings in Reno last week and

Re: RE: john henry

2001-04-24 Thread Louis Proyect
Mat Forstater wrote: John F. Henry is not the John R. Henry that has been posting to pen-l. As soon as I saw the first note from John R. Henry on reparations last week, I immediately knew it could not be *my* John Henry, and checked his middle initial. I saw John F. at the AFIT meetings in Reno

Re: Re: Sweatshops and Krugman

2001-04-24 Thread Jim Devine
Yoshie wrote: It may be the case that _on the average_ workers in rich nations have higher productivity than workers in poor ones (does anyone have comparative stats ready at hand?), but sweatshops under late capitalism appear to achieve productivity levels equal to or even higher than those

Why Is the Sky Blue Question

2001-04-24 Thread Max Sawicky
For the macro-economically inclined . . . People talk about economic recovery being 'fueled' or propelled by investment spending. Isn't this a non-sequitur? If there is a dollar less of investment spending, mustn't there be a dollar more of consumption spending? The exception would seem to be

Re: Re: models

2001-04-24 Thread Jim Devine
I wrote: I'm not convinced. The Fordist production techniques that prevailed before the neoliberal or Post-Fordist era involved large economies of scale. Though the companies benefited from protection (and it seems to be true that international direct investment used to be mostly behind tariff

John Henry

2001-04-24 Thread Jim Devine
Michael, why kick John Henry off the list? I know the list is for discussions inside the left, but it also helps to try to deal with -- to argue against -- other viewpoints. I admit it that I didn't like it when John started talking to David Shemano, since that starts a discussion within the

Re: A reply to Thomas Friedman

2001-04-24 Thread Jim Devine
Louis wrote: [This is the main problem with the term globalization. It is far too imprecise. We should campaign to replace it with the much more accurate term imperialism. That would force Bhagwati to say things like the benefits of imperialism. Down with fuzzy thinking.] the problem is that

Re: Re: Re: models

2001-04-24 Thread Jim Devine
I wrote: I'm not convinced. The Fordist production techniques that prevailed before the I've run across several references to Fordist and Fordism, generally with reference to manufacturing in some way. Is this Henry Ford we are talking about? Or some other Ford/philosophy? the usual meaning

Re: Re: A reply to Thomas Friedman

2001-04-24 Thread Louis Proyect
the problem is that this replacement simply introduces a new type of fuzzy thinking, because it doesn't distinguish the imperialism of the turn of the present century from that of 1945-80 or from that of the era between the World Wars or from that which Lenin, Bukharin, and Luxemburg

Re: Market freedoms

2001-04-24 Thread Jim Devine
Market freedoms are those who own property, often or mostly at the expense of the freedom of those who don't. The libertarians sometimes say that they just don't care about the inequalities implied by this, since all that matters is the individual (i.e., me). Others embrace social Darwinism,

RE: Why Is the Sky Blue Question

2001-04-24 Thread Forstater, Mathew
Max b4 I reply, this must be a typo? you wrote: In a closed economy, doesn't more investment automatically mean less income, rather than more?

Re: Why Is the Sky Blue Question

2001-04-24 Thread Jim Devine
At 11:32 AM 4/24/01 +0100, you wrote: For the macro-economically inclined . . . People talk about economic recovery being 'fueled' or propelled by investment spending. Isn't this a non-sequitur? If there is a dollar less of investment spending, mustn't there be a dollar more of consumption

Re: Re: john henry

2001-04-24 Thread Carrol Cox
I presume that if Jim Devine (for example) bothers to respond to a John Henry post it is because he thinks it a useful point of departure for something he wants to say, not because he feels forced to respond. I personally simply filter out those whose posts annoy me too much or seem a waste of

Fwd: Mtg. Wed. in Cinci to plan March for Justice - Please Forward

2001-04-24 Thread Yoshie Furuhashi
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Full-name: Dan La Botz Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2001 09:46:14 EDT Subject: Meeting of African American and other activists Dear Friends, A group activists from the African American and other communities in Cincinnati has called for a planning meeting to organize a legal,

Re: question on trade _theory_

2001-04-24 Thread Bill Burgess
In _For the Common Good_ , Cobbs and __ state that factor mobility (especially of capital) cannot be incorporated in the theory of comparative advantage. Is this correct? I seem to recall someone on this list stating otherwise. Can you suggest a textbook or article that takes up this

Re: Re: Re: A reply to Thomas Friedman

2001-04-24 Thread Jim Devine
At 11:52 AM 4/24/01 -0400, you wrote: the problem is that this replacement simply introduces a new type of fuzzy thinking, because it doesn't distinguish the imperialism of the turn of the present century from that of 1945-80 or from that of the era between the World Wars or from that which

Re: john henry

2001-04-24 Thread Andrew Hagen
If we're voting, I'd vote to keep John Henry on pen-l so long as he doesn't engage in especially provacative rhetoric. His rhetoric has been calm and measured so far. I've been questioning some of my core progressive beliefs. I don't think I ever was convinced of the LTV's usefulness. I have no

Re: Re: question on trade _theory_

2001-04-24 Thread Jim Devine
At 09:09 AM 4/24/01 -0700, you wrote: In _For the Common Good_ , Cobbs and __ state that factor mobility (especially of capital) cannot be incorporated in the theory of comparative advantage. Is this correct? I seem to recall someone on this list stating otherwise. Take a standard

Re: Re: Re: Re: A reply to Thomas Friedman

2001-04-24 Thread Louis Proyect
Jim Devine: Since there hasn't been an International Convention of Marxist Experts to standardize Marxist terminology, saying that there are no non-capitalist forms of imperialism in a Marxist sense is exactly the same as saying the non-capitalist imperialisms weren't imperialism in the sense

Re: Re: john henry

2001-04-24 Thread Louis Proyect
At 12:23 PM 4/24/01 -0400, you wrote: If we're voting, I'd vote to keep John Henry on pen-l so long as he doesn't engage in especially provacative rhetoric. His rhetoric has been calm and measured so far. Andrew Hagen [EMAIL PROTECTED] What is somebody made calm and measured arguments on

A Marxist critique of the Tobin Tax

2001-04-24 Thread Louis Proyect
(http://www.marxist.com/Europe/tobin_tax_and_ATTAC_400.html) The Tobin Tax and protectionism: the bankrupt policies of ATTAC The thousands of people who have joined ATTAC (Association for the Taxation of Transactions and for Aid to Citizens) undoubtedly do so for a variety of reasons and have

Re: A reply to Thomas Friedman

2001-04-24 Thread Yoshie Furuhashi
Jim D. says: At 11:52 AM 4/24/01 -0400, you wrote: the problem is that this replacement simply introduces a new type of fuzzy thinking, because it doesn't distinguish the imperialism of the turn of the present century from that of 1945-80 or from that of the era between the World Wars or from

RE: RE: Why Is the Sky Blue Question

2001-04-24 Thread Max Sawicky
no because my point is that more I means less C, and C has a multiplier effect while I is 'leakage.' I realize this is primitive Keynes, but that is the lingo often used in discussion of the recovery. max Max b4 I reply, this must be a typo? you wrote: In a closed economy, doesn't more

RE: Re: Why Is the Sky Blue Question

2001-04-24 Thread Max Sawicky
I'm not talking about sectors or fixed employment. A given dollar may be devoted to either C or I. It can't go anywhere else (abstracting from open economy or govt). So even if I has a multiplier effect, if C's is greater than it makes no sense to speak of investment fueling a recovery. Any

Re: Re: Re: john henry

2001-04-24 Thread Andrew Hagen
On Tue, 24 Apr 2001 12:38:57 -0400, Louis Proyect wrote: What is somebody made calm and measured arguments on behalf of the Bell Curve? Or that biology is a woman's destiny? Or that homosexuality is a pathology? Or that crime is caused by bad genes? Good point. I'd either make exceptions for

non-capitalist imperialism = an oxymoron?

2001-04-24 Thread Jim Devine
[was: Re: [PEN-L:10655] Re: Re: Re: Re: A reply to Thomas Friedman] I wrote: Since there hasn't been an International Convention of Marxist Experts to standardize Marxist terminology, saying that there are no non-capitalist forms of imperialism in a Marxist sense is exactly the same as saying

Boeing/Airbus at it again...

2001-04-24 Thread Ian Murray
Brussels seeks to pacify US over Airbus loans Andrew Osborn in Brussels Tuesday April 24, 2001 The Guardian The European Union sought to head off another transatlantic trade dispute yesterday by saying that billions of pounds of state aid for Airbus's new A380 superjumbo complied with global

Re: john henry

2001-04-24 Thread Michael Perelman
I may be wrong, but I found John Henry's participation to be unhelpful. I cannot tell you how many people have signed off pen-l because of the enormous number of messages. Carrol mentioned the delete key -- just don't read every post, but just deleting material can be a nuisance. In addition,

Telecoms house of cards

2001-04-24 Thread Ian Murray
Titanic greed of the telecom giants The current worldwide mobile phone crisis serves as a stark warning of the evils of unregulated capitalism and corporate cynicism Will Hutton Sunday April 22, 2001 The Observer Imagine the chorus of criticism if a collection of state-owned companies had

Re: non-capitalist imperialism = an oxymoron?

2001-04-24 Thread Louis Proyect
Jim Devine: no it isn't. The point is that you _define_ imperialism as being inherently capitalist, so that non-capitalist imperialism is an oxymoron _by definition_. But definitions are arbitrary to a large extent. They don't drop from the sky and they're not innate in the mind. Instead,

Re: Re: A reply to Thomas Friedman

2001-04-24 Thread Jim Devine
Yoshie wrote: I wish there were some agreed-upon terms to distinguish pre-capitalist phenomena from capitalist phenomena. Words like slavery, patriarchy, imperialism, etc. are used to refer to both, which has the tendency to make analysis ahistorical. Words like these -- if not all words --

Re: Why Is the Sky Blue Question

2001-04-24 Thread Michael Perelman
Why is I a leakage? On Tue, Apr 24, 2001 at 12:52:52PM +0100, Max Sawicky wrote: no because my point is that more I means less C, and C has a multiplier effect while I is 'leakage.' I realize this is primitive Keynes, but that is the lingo often used in discussion of the recovery. --

RE: RE: RE: Why Is the Sky Blue Question

2001-04-24 Thread Forstater, Mathew
I is not a leakage from the aggregate expenditure flow. I is an injection into the expenditure flow. S is a leakage from the expenditure flow. T is also a leakage, G is an injection. So in a closed economy: I + G = S + T total injections into the expenditure flow equal total withdrawals or

RE: RE: Re: Why Is the Sky Blue Question

2001-04-24 Thread Forstater, Mathew
simple K model, no G or for. sector: Y = 1/(1-b) (a + I) equilibrium output and income = the multiplier times autonomous injections into the expenditure flow. b = mpc and a = autonomous consumption. increase in I leads to increase in Y by some multiple. -Original Message- From: Max

Re: non-capitalist imperialism = an oxymoron?

2001-04-24 Thread Michael Pugliese
Jim Devine:(BTW, my friend Phil Klinkner argues that the successes of the US civil rights movement had a lot to do with the fact that the US power elite didn't want to look bad in competition with the USSR.) In his recent book with Rogers Smith. For expansion of this thesis, that Klinkner and

Edmund Curtis

2001-04-24 Thread Louis Proyect
Last night PBS aired a fascinating documentary on the photographer Edmund Curtis who spent over thirty years documenting the American Indian: http://www.pbs.org/wnet/americanmasters/ Starting in 1906, when he first came across Squamish Indians digging clams in his native Puget Sound, Curtis

Re: RE: Re: Why Is the Sky Blue Question

2001-04-24 Thread Jim Devine
At 12:58 PM 4/24/01 +0100, you wrote: I'm not talking about sectors or fixed employment. A given dollar may be devoted to either C or I. It can't go anywhere else (abstracting from open economy or govt). not surprisingly, Max, you're thinking like a budgeteer (or at least it looks that way).

Re: Edmund Curtis

2001-04-24 Thread Michael Pugliese
_Edward S. Curtis and the North American Indian, Incorporated_ by Mick Gidley, Cambridge Univ. Press, 2000. - Original Message - From: Louis Proyect [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, April 24, 2001 10:35 AM Subject: [PEN-L:10672] Edmund Curtis Last night PBS

Re: A Marxist critique of the Tobin Tax

2001-04-24 Thread Doug Henwood
Louis Proyect quoted: In any case, this tax will never see the light of day. ...and, a screen later... The Tobin tax was a proposal intended to protect capitalist interests, and in no way to harm them. I think the TT is pretty weak tea, but if it's intended to protect capitalist interests,

Re: Re: Edmund Curtis

2001-04-24 Thread Jim Devine
Louis wrote: Roosevelt directed Curtis to financier J. Pierpont Morgan who decided to fund the project after reviewing some of the photos after being guaranteed a share of the profits. Curtis's photo collections, eventually consisting of 20 volumes, were meant to be sold on subscription basis to

Re: Re: A Marxist critique of the Tobin Tax

2001-04-24 Thread Louis Proyect
I think the TT is pretty weak tea, but if it's intended to protect capitalist interests, why are the capitalists opposed to it? Doug There is opposition and there is *opposition*. Louis Proyect Marxism mailing list: http://www.marxmail.org

Re: Re: Re: Edmund Curtis

2001-04-24 Thread Louis Proyect
While the powerful (i.e., under capitalism, the rich) should bear the greatest responsibility, we should remember that slaughtering and confining the Indians was a populist cause during the 19th century. (For example, Andrew Jackson, the man who organized the Trail of Tears and the clearing

RE: Re: Why Is the Sky Blue Question

2001-04-24 Thread Max Sawicky
becuz I is financed by S, and S is 'not spending.' as mentioned, if both I and C had the same multiplier effect, then my question would not apply. mbs -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Michael Perelman Sent: Tuesday, April 24, 2001 6:12

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Great Plains Depopulation

2001-04-24 Thread phillp2
Ken, I explicitly said beef packing plants and kill operations. The Brandon plant and Neepawa are hog operations, no? Paul From: Ken Hanly [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject:[PEN-L:10608] Re: Re: Re: Re: Great Plains

RE: RE: RE: Re: Why Is the Sky Blue Question

2001-04-24 Thread Max Sawicky
sure but if dI causes dY, how is the dI financed, if not by foregone dC? mbs simple K model, no G or for. sector: Y = 1/(1-b) (a + I) equilibrium output and income = the multiplier times autonomous injections into the expenditure flow. b = mpc and a = autonomous consumption. increase in I

Re: Re: Re: Re: Edmund Curtis

2001-04-24 Thread Jim Devine
I wrote: While the powerful (i.e., under capitalism, the rich) should bear the greatest responsibility, we should remember that slaughtering and confining the Indians was a populist cause during the 19th century. (For example, Andrew Jackson, the man who organized the Trail of Tears and the

RE: Re: RE: Re: Why Is the Sky Blue Question

2001-04-24 Thread Max Sawicky
not surprisingly, Max, you're thinking like a budgeteer (or at least it looks that way). The feds have a budget, so that if deficits aren't allowed, then spending more on C leads to less I or vice-versa. But for the economy as a whole, things work differently. First, corporations can expand

RE: Re: A Marxist critique of the Tobin Tax

2001-04-24 Thread Max Sawicky
Louis Proyect quoted: In any case, this tax will never see the light of day. ...and, a screen later... The Tobin tax was a proposal intended to protect capitalist interests, and in no way to harm them. I think the TT is pretty weak tea, but if it's intended to protect capitalist interests, why

Re: RE: Re: Why Is the Sky Blue Question

2001-04-24 Thread Michael Perelman
Max, you seem to be operating on a pre-Keynesian plane. Why does S have to finance I. On Tue, Apr 24, 2001 at 02:33:21PM +0100, Max Sawicky wrote: becuz I is financed by S, and S is 'not spending.' as mentioned, if both I and C had the same multiplier effect, then my question would not

Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: Why Is the Sky Blue Question

2001-04-24 Thread Jim Devine
I wrote: not surprisingly, Max, you're thinking like a budgeteer... The feds have a budget, so that if deficits aren't allowed, then spending more on C leads to less I or vice-versa. But for the economy as a whole, things work differently. First, corporations can expand spending on their I

Re: RE: RE: RE: Re: Why Is the Sky Blue Question

2001-04-24 Thread Doug Henwood
Max Sawicky wrote: sure but if dI causes dY, how is the dI financed, if not by foregone dC? Most corporate investment is financed out of profits, but sometimes corps borrow. As for SI and their relation to the flow of expenditures, Keynes said, succinctly: savings and investment are merely

Some leaders unsure unbridled capitalism best way to nurture democracy- Toronto Star (fwd)

2001-04-24 Thread Stephen E Philion
Toronto Star April 25 Summit leaders taped during closed-door session Leaders of smaller, poorer countries question whether unbridled capitalism is best way to nurture democracy. Quebec (CP) - The prying lenses and sharp pencils of the press had been shooed out of the meeting

Re: Why Is the Sky Blue Question

2001-04-24 Thread Peter Dorman
Uh, Max, isn't this a Say's Law question? If national income is variable, a dollar less of this doesn't automatically mean a dollar more of that. Peter Max Sawicky wrote: For the macro-economically inclined . . . People talk about economic recovery being 'fueled' or propelled by

Overly Civil Society

2001-04-24 Thread Michael Pollak
OBSERVER: Breathless at the Summit AVENUE OF THE AMERICAS Financial Times, Apr 23, 2001 snip Meanwhile, another gathering on the margins of the summit held a different kind of surprise. In an effort to show that they were listening to dissenting voices, the Canadian hosts organised a

Re: Re: question on trade _theory_

2001-04-24 Thread Peter Dorman
I'm the offending party. Look at any mainstream trade text (e.g. Salvatore); it will have at least one chapter, usually several, on capital mobility. Paul Krugman built his career on a wrinkle concerning factor mobility -- economies of agglomeration, etc. Herman Daly was just wrong on this.

BLS Daily Report

2001-04-24 Thread Richardson_D
BLS DAILY REPORT, TUESDAY, APRIL 24, 2001: About 6 percent of the nation's 72 million families had an unemployed member last year, says the Bureau of Labor Statistics (The Wall Street Journal, tailpiece of its Work Week feature, page A1). The nation's average teacher salary has climbed

RE: Re: Why Is the Sky Blue Question

2001-04-24 Thread Max Sawicky
I don't think it's Say's Law. If you pull a dollar out of your mattress tomorrow, your decision to spend or save could mean different levels of GDP for the period in question. If spending means higher GDP than saving does, then it seems wrong to speak of savings or investment as causing income

RE: Re: RE: RE: RE: Re: Why Is the Sky Blue Question

2001-04-24 Thread Max Sawicky
Max Sawicky wrote: sure but if dI causes dY, how is the dI financed, if not by foregone dC? Most corporate investment is financed out of profits, but sometimes corps borrow. As for SI and their relation to the flow of expenditures, Keynes said, succinctly: savings and investment are merely

Re: The Great Divergence

2001-04-24 Thread Ricardo Duchesne
Just a year after publication, and Ken Pomeranz's *The Great Divergence* (2000) appears to have risen to a preminent position in its field. Not a minor achievement considering that this debate over the rise of modern capitalism has engaged the minds of so gmany ireat scholars and thinkers.

Re: RE: Re: Why Is the Sky Blue Question

2001-04-24 Thread christian11
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If you pull a dollar out of your mattress tomorrow, your decision to spend or save could mean different levels of GDP for the period in question. If spending means higher GDP than saving does, then it seems wrong to speak of savings or investment as causing income

RE: Sky Blue (long, equations)

2001-04-24 Thread Forstater, Mathew
I propose that we get out of the textbook Keynesian framework, and use a simple Kaleckian or 'effective demand and employment' model to think about this. In an effective demand and employment model, the economy (abstracting from foreign trade and government) may still be characterized:

Re: Re: RE: Re: Why Is the Sky Blue Question

2001-04-24 Thread Jim Devine
In this scenario, is there a difference between saving and hoarding, between money stowed in a mattress and deposited in a bank? Wasn't Keynes' point that S=I because he assumed that S was going into the financial system? In this case, aren't you back to the different agents of saving and

Re: Re: models

2001-04-24 Thread Michael Perelman
Doesn't Fred's question bring us back to the earlier discussion of PeopleSoft. These technologies are still very crude. They might work quite well in the future, but they're not up to par yet. On Tue, Apr 24, 2001 at 01:43:57PM +0100, Fred Guy wrote: ### That's so if you accept the old

Re: Re: What is going on?

2001-04-24 Thread Brad DeLong
i am not entirely sure about that. it is difficult to tell if things have got worse in tamil nadu, given that the rivers were dry when they were not transporting sewage and industrial waste even back in 1980, but the increased pollution has made life quite difficult in the big cities like madras

Re: Re: Re: Re: Exporting rubbish

2001-04-24 Thread Brad DeLong
The problem is not so much with their choice as with the conditions that make them accept that choice. There are two problems. The first problem is the conditions that make them accept that choice. The second problem is made up of those who work hard to make their options smaller, and their

Re: Re: Low productivity in the Global South

2001-04-24 Thread Brad DeLong
Does even PK honestly think that, with free flow of capital, there would be competition of sweatshops for labor, as opposed to unemployed workers landless peasants competing with one another for a shot at sweated labor? Yoshie Of course he does. In general there will be both: capitalists

Re: Re: Re: Exporting rubbish

2001-04-24 Thread Brad DeLong
The social welfare costs are *not* proportional to forgone earnings. Really? Isn't this exactly how economists think? Isn't this exactly how they do cost-benefit analysis? {Change in Social Welfare} = {Change in Real per Capita GDP} - {Terms Associated with Increased Inequality (Where

Re: Re: The Great Divergence

2001-04-24 Thread michael perelman
How much did Chinese crop production depend on the potatoe? In The Social and Economic Effects of the Potato, Salaman [no kidding] attributed the great jump in Chinese population to the introduction of the potato, which was very important in the inland regions -- which, admittedly did not

Re: Re: Re: Low productivity in the Global South

2001-04-24 Thread Jim Devine
At 01:50 PM 4/24/01 -0700, you wrote: Does even PK honestly think that, with free flow of capital, there would be competition of sweatshops for labor, as opposed to unemployed workers landless peasants competing with one another for a shot at sweated labor? Yoshie Of course he does. In

Re: Low productivity in the Global South

2001-04-24 Thread Yoshie Furuhashi
Does even PK honestly think that, with free flow of capital, there would be competition of sweatshops for labor, as opposed to unemployed workers landless peasants competing with one another for a shot at sweated labor? Yoshie Of course he does. In general there will be both: capitalists

Antonio Negri

2001-04-24 Thread Louis Proyect
[This is an excerpt from an article in the current Lingua Franca that is unfortunately not on their website. Titled The Convictions of Antonio Negri, it is about the evolution of an Italian professor from ultraleftism--although the author Rachel Donadio scarcely recognizes it as such--to

Re: Market freedoms and Monbiot's reforms

2001-04-24 Thread Chris Burford
Arguably these proposals by George Monbiot are nothing but a reformist and palely green cover for the continued development of capitalism. Under the guise of provocatively ridiculing the planting of cannabis in Parliament Square as a merely symbolic substitute for world revolution, he is

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Great Plains Depopulation

2001-04-24 Thread Ken Hanly
Sorry I didnt notice the beef in parentheses. Still the Brandon hog plant is new and of considerable importance to the Brandon economy. So far it is losing money but the intention is to expand production. Most of the jobs though are very unpleasant. Turnover is incredible, and pay is not that

Re: A Marxist critique of the Tobin Tax

2001-04-24 Thread Chris Burford
Although this only claims to be 'a' Marxist critique of the Tobin Tax, I would argue that marxism is a method - of dialectical analysis of material forces, which serves the best interests of the working class - rather than a badge of political purity, which of course I see as the thrust of

The practicability of the Tobin tax

2001-04-24 Thread Chris Burford
Leaving aside, in this thread, whether the Tobin tax is Marxist or unmarxist, I would appreciate some comments, for and against, on this article from the ATTAC website on its practicability. Chris Burford Is the Tobin Tax Practicable? Rodney Schmidt VEEM - North-South Institute - Vietnam

Sinclair Stevens gets educated at Quebec.

2001-04-24 Thread Ken Hanly
Stevens is not even a Red Tory. He was a cabinet minister in (probably) the most unpopular Conservative government in Canadian history and a staunch supporter of free trade. It is great to see articles like this written by people of his political persuasion. It will be hard for the media or hack

Re: RE: Re: Why Is the Sky Blue Question

2001-04-24 Thread Peter Dorman
Well, right. If you put the dollar back in the mattress, that does one thing, if you spend it, that does another. Meanwhile, the Keynesian point is that whether you have the dollar in the first place depends on the spending (including investment) decisions of the whole community. In a purely

A Brazilian view of the FTAA

2001-04-24 Thread Louis Proyect
[posted by Nestor to marxism list] My translation, hopefully reasonable The most interesting thing with what follows is that it was not written by a Marxist. It was written by an official of the Brazilian Ministry for Foreign Affairs, and was published in the _Jornal do Brasil_, a mainstream

Structure of Canadian Meat-Packing Industry

2001-04-24 Thread Ken Hanly
Here is a short summary from Ag-Canada. It confirms Paul's statement about beef-packing concentration in Alberta. Cheers, Ken Hanly Structure The Canadian meat packing/processing sector consists of red meat products and by-products. Beef, pork and processed meats account for 94% of revenues,

Fed transparency

2001-04-24 Thread Doug Henwood
Apropos the Fed's newish regime of transparency, which came up here the other day, vice-chair Roger Ferguson gave a speech on this topic last week http://www.federalreserve.gov/BoardDocs/Speeches/2001/20010419/default.htm. He sounds rather committed to the idea, for two major reasons: first,

Re: A reply to Thomas Friedman

2001-04-24 Thread Yoshie Furuhashi
Jim D. says: Yoshie wrote: I wish there were some agreed-upon terms to distinguish pre-capitalist phenomena from capitalist phenomena. Words like slavery, patriarchy, imperialism, etc. are used to refer to both, which has the tendency to make analysis ahistorical. Words like these -- if not

Re: Why Is the Sky Blue Question

2001-04-24 Thread Yoshie Furuhashi
In a purely Keynesian world, consumption causes growth, investment causes growth, and savings is a residual (the difference between equilibrium income and total spending). But this is very basic macro, so I must be missing something. Peter What if your nation has little saving (for instance

Re: Re: Why Is the Sky Blue Question

2001-04-24 Thread Peter Dorman
Yoshie Furuhashi wrote: What if your nation has little saving (for instance because your capitalists like to park their money offshore) your government has little power to borrow (because of bad credit rating, political ostracism, etc.)? Then, in order to finance necessary imports through

Re: models

2001-04-24 Thread Yoshie Furuhashi
One example I use is Coke which, when I was a kid, came in a 6oz glass bottle in a single flavor. Now, there are over 100 varieties (flavors/containers/sizes) of Coca-Cola. This does not count other flavors such as Orange drink, Root Beer, Sprite etc. John R Henry CPP Since then, Americans

Czech issues.

2001-04-24 Thread jdevine
{was: Re: [PEN-L:10717] Re: A reply to Thomas Friedman] Yoshie writes: There's the problem of contradictory social interests in each nation state, however. There are Czechs, and there are Czechs. I think the Czech reformers of the Prague Spring -- I mean its political intellectual leaders --

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