At 10:04 AM 01/09/2001 -0500, you wrote:
Jim Devine wrote:
I don't think Clinton can take credit for the boom, since his
policies of running budget surpluses hurt aggregate demand and
growth
This has been the slowest of the post-WW II expansions, but mainly
because it first few years were so
Sorry, I don't think you want to listen (and this has been the larger
problem all along) and I'd rather not continue in this tone. Signing off
for now.
PA
Why not be an adult, recognize that there is a big difference between
a Clinton-Gore EPA and a Bush-Cheney EPA, and admit you fucked
Just reflecting on Nader getting 3%. If Bush wins the enviros who agonized
over the vote, and then voted for Gore will lose. They'll regret not voting
for Nader
If Gore wins, he will, with certainty, sell out the enviros, and then they'll
regret not voting for Nader.
Many, of course, will not
If you think there's no difference between a Clinton-Gore EPA and a
Bush-Cheny EPA you need to have your brain overhauled.
Brad: Surely by now you have caught the point: people don't feel there is
ENOUGH of a difference
If the issues are that important, then even small differences are
Has anybody looked at the Bernanke/Frank intro. book? I just glanced at
it, but it seems like it might be ok.
--
I just got my copy yesterday...
Brad DeLong
I am sorry to see you go. I may not agree with you often, but I do
need to hear voices like yours--and the way the world works now I
don't hear them often enough...
Brad DeLong
A friend forwarded a message to me that argued that "a vote for
Nader is a vote for Bush, so that if Bush wins, it will be Nader's
fault." Here's my reply, amplified a bit:
If Gore loses, it's his own fault (or his campaign's).
Take responsibility for the actions of your faction. It's the
I thought that Sachs was one of them! What happened?
CHeers, Ken Hanly
You were misinformed...
Ever since I met him in 1980, Jeff has said that the World Bank was
designed for a world in which sovereign governments were
credit-constrained, that we don't live in such a world, and that the
G'day Brad,
Two responses come to mind. Firstly, how would you define 'nationalist
thug' such that the utterances and actions of US presidents don't qualify
them as just that,
Well, some of the actions of U.S. presidents *do* qualify.
and, secondly, are all nationalist words and actions much
Mat wrote:
Klassic because, unlike most mainstreamers, he has read stuff
written more than
five years old, or because he overlooks Marx? And shouldn't it be
"continuous"?
Peter quotes Krugman:
"...the young Schumpeter, writing before World War I, was the first
major economist to recognize
This was a Spartacus League slogan in the 1970s. Anyway, do you
defend Slobo against the new regime?
No...
Now, a quick question. Several on this list who are otherwise
perceptive and critical thinkers have accepted, and indeed
broadcast, the view that Milosevic is an agent of the devil, etc.
What evidence does anyone on this list have that he is evil, anti-
democratic, satanic etc. other than
Of course, the fact that it _looks as if_ the Fed has been steering
the economy toward low unemployment and low inflation during the
last 8 years or so is mostly a matter of luck: if the Fed had
followed its vision of the Phillips Curve, we'd still have 6 percent
unemployment in the US.
But
Of course, the fact that it _looks as if_ the Fed has been steering
the economy toward low unemployment and low inflation during the
last 8 years or so is mostly a matter of luck: if the Fed had
followed its vision of the Phillips Curve, we'd still have 6 percent
unemployment in the US.
But it
Yes, my voice recognition software is not feeling good today. I am typing
my response.
Brad De Long wrote:
If market forces are supposed to allow poor nations to develop by
accepting sweatshops and pollution, why has the recent upsurge in
neoliberalism led to greater equality within
If market forces are supposed to allow poor nations to develop by
accepting sweatshops and pollution, why has the recent upsurge in
neoliberalism led to greater equality within nations and among nations?
--
Michael Perelman
Economics Department
California State University
Chico, CA 95929
Tel.
Brad DeLong wrote:
And Jagdish would say the reverse--that you are morally bankrupt
for not realizing that "opposition to sweatshops" in the world
today means taking people working in factories in Hermosillos and
sending them back to the farm...
Our old friend the false binary. In a better
The subject of Yugoslavia is so contentious, that I suspect that we will not
get very far here. Whatever Milosovic's economic
achievements might be, I abhor the nationalism that he represented. The US
has succeeded in demonizing M...
Srebnitca?
Milosevic demonized himself.
How short memories
I don't mind if we demonize Milosevic, but I would like that
demonization to be
spread equitably. Tujman was equally evil, yet the U.S. embraced him.
Really? The National Security Council staff when I was in the
government wished daily for his overthrow, with their wishes checked
only by the
I think that who is and who is not a "demon" depends on one's
political perspective.
I think that who is and who is not a demon depends on who acts like a demon.
We clearly disagree.
Brad DeLong
At 10:00 AM 9/25/00 -0700, you wrote:
The subject of Yugoslavia is so contentious, that I suspect that we will not
get very far here. Whatever Milosovic's economic
achievements might be, I abhor the nationalism that he represented. The US
has succeeded in demonizing M...
Srebnitca?
Milosevic
At 02:59 PM 9/25/00 -0400, you wrote:
Wasn't Marx himself critical of the notion that only labor creates
value? I recall something about nature being a partner in the
enterprise.
for Marx, labor and nature both create use-values, whereas only
labor creates value.
But use values have exchange
Kosovars are not innocent helpful victims.
Most *are*.
Serbs are not monsters of quasi-Nazi brutality.
Some *are*--and a lot of those who are work for the government...
Brad DeLong
--
Professor J. Bradford DeLong
Department of Economics, #3880
University of California at Berkeley
Berkeley,
Given the
pressures on it, the Milosevic government has been one of the mildest in
recent history. It is no more repressive than the FSLN in Nicaragua...
Why this compulsion to lie to blacken the reputation of the Sandinistas?
All true, but you omitted the key social ethic of "Survivor:" all
alliances are
temporary, and no friendships are real. When people work
cooperatively to build a
shelter, their real goal is to be the last one sleeping there. As a
consequence,
there can be neither genuine trust nor genuine
Does the justice of Mugabe's land struggle, and national struggle
against IMF interference, outweigh the injustices of individual
bourgeois democratic rights in that country?
Chris Burford
No. Remember, first of all, that the dispossessed are not only white
farmowners, but Black employees
I heard some of Mugabe's talk on Democracy Now. He said that the British
had promised to finance the purchase of the lands, but then reneged.
The British desire to fund large-scale land reform in Zimbabwe
vanished after Mugabe sent his soldiers to shoot up Matabeleland...
Brad DeLong
http://www.spp.umich.edu/rsie/acit/
--
Michael Perelman
Well, Jagdish and T.N. are broadly right: the focus of the campaigns
has been on stopping the purchase of goods from "sweatshops" rather
than on upgrading conditions in "sweatshops." Getting textile firms
to pay higher wages in the
I do not think Amsden's "getting prices wrong" is not applicable to
Peronist Argentina. The South Korean state and Peron's Argentina, both
intervened in the economy, thus deliberately got prices wrong (as
opposed to getting prices right with well functioning markets).
Amsden's point is not that
I don't pretend to know much about Peron's policies. He had a basically
agricultural economy...
In 1913 Buenos Aires is 13th in the world in telephones per capita.
In 1929 Argentina is fifth in the world in automobiles per capita.
Argentinian manufacturing output per capita on the eve of
Brad DeLong wrote:
I think the U.S. sanctions policy on Iraq is mistaken and
counterproductive. But I don't think Clinton is morally culpable for
the fact that the Iraqi government prefers not to spend its foreign
exchange on pharmaceuticals and nutrition but to husband it for...
other
Well this might be nice if nations intervened in other countries when bad
things are done and were able to stop the bad things happening...
It was called World War II...
We expected networks to deliver more protests against global
capitalism, of the sort that have just taken place in Melbourne -
Congratulations!
But there are special reasons why networks have produced the cascade
of positive feedback leading to the petrol tax revolt in Britain.
The petrol
MARXISM 2000 -- the 4th International Gala Conference hosted by
Rethinking Marxism -- is finally here.,,
#
Stephen Cullenberg Office: 909-787-5037, ext. 1573
Professor of EconomicsFax:909-787-5685
University of California
You are partially correct. In a mixed economy, there is a clash between the
needs of workers and the bourgeoisie. The workers need jobs, housing,
health care, recreation and education. Their bosses have more ambitious
needs. They need chauffeured limousines, 4 houses, servants and gold-plated
You should read more carefully. I wasn't saying that you should be filtered,
You need to write more carefully. You were:
Néstor wrote:
(The internal structure of Argentina is not the business of
interlopers from the imperialist world -- and interloping from
alleged leftists is the worst of
As Doug said, you have a lot to offer the list,
but sometimes you get on your high horse and seem to behave rather
dogmatically.
Let's look at the record:
"(The internal structure of Argentina is not the business of
interlopers from the imperialist world -- and interloping from
alleged
You do not explain why it is "nutso" to consider that it is no business of
the rest of us what dictators do to their own people.
But isn't it common among certain types of pragmatist and "realists" to
claim that foreign policy ought to be based upon advancing national
interest? On this view,
After I read what follows, and which deserves no answer at all, I am
beginning to believe that I am not debating with Brad DeLong, but
with Spruille Braden DeLong. From now onwards, I will put things in
clear by addressing Mr. Braden DeLong...
En relación a [PEN-L:1685] Re: Canada, Australia,
But Díaz Alejandro is... the ultimate sepoy, and it is
not a matter of chance that, in the economic circles of the United
States of America, the Braden DeLongs consider his 600 page long
bunch of half-muttered hardly digerible stupidities a "standard book"
on Argentina.
To argue that the
Néstor wrote:
(The internal structure of Argentina is not the business of
interlopers from the imperialist world -- and interloping from
alleged leftists is the worst of all).
Brad writes:
Positively, totally, utterly, completely nutso.
Michael, isn't this the kind of abusive rhetoric which
Jim D. wrote:
At 07:55 PM 9/10/00 -0700, you wrote:
Dierdre McCloskey was claiming this morning that Marx had never
visited either a farm or a factory. Does anyone know of documented
counterexamples?
maybe, but didn't his friend Fred manage a factory? If old Karlos
didn't have the time or
The government of Juan Perón was one of the most progressive in Latin
American history in the 20th century. Here is a list of its accomplishments:
1. Taking advantage of government leniency if not outright support, trade
unions were formed in every industry.
2. Social security was made
If, as Tam Dalyell has shown, Thatcher prepared the war in order to
win her elections...
How did Thatcher do that? Did she bribe the Junta to send troops to
the Malvinas Islands?
Brad DeLong
The population in
the Malvinas are the result of forcible eviction, by a British fleet,
of the legal
Here's a song for lovers of liberty: La Marseillaise. Militant
patriotism at its most full-blooded. Nestor's description of an
Argentine nationalist icon sounds serene, with its sense of duty to
patria fulfilled, in comparison to La Marseillaise.
Allons enfants de la Patrie
Le jour de
En relación a [PEN-L:1354] Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: A slight,
el 6 Sep 00, a las 16:25, Brad DeLong dijo:
It is too long a story, but there has never existed a single "habit
of obedience" to those generals. Fear and hatred was what there
existed and exists. People here has never equated
In 1990, the hyperinflation had little to do with economic strains
themselves. There were two peaks in 1989 and 1990, and both were
absolutely political. The Argentinian economy has become such a
concentrated mess after the 1976 coup and the stupid timidity
(bordering treason) of the Alfonsín
Sam wrote to Nicole:
Check out David Hume:
"When we run over our libraries persuaded of these principles, what
havoc must we make? If we take in our hand any volume; of divinity or
school metaphysics, for instance, let us ask Does it contain any
abstract reasoning concerning quantity or number?
From: Michael Everett [EMAIL PROTECTED]
"Steal this
Movie" is indeed a stolen movie. It was stolen by NAFTA and is yet
another example of an American cultural product purporting to be made
in the US but in fact thrown together in the Canadian movie
maquiladoras where runaway
Doug is right IMHO. Canada and Australia are the best examples of
what could have happened with Argentina if we were not a semicolony,
such as we are. There were wild dreams in Argentina during the 1890s
and 1900s, but the disease was there...
But what in h*** was the disease. Canada,
Maybe the issue is that both Canada and Australia (the success
stories compared to Argentina) were _settler colonies_ of the UK,
while Argentina was not. As settler colonies, they were treated as
almost-provinces by the "mother" country. After US independence, the
Brits learned how to treat
You are assuming that everyone knows that 2 + 2 = 4 or Ottawa is the capital
of Canada. Some people could care less and it may or may not be a part of
what makes up their reality.
If you know any one whose reality doesn't include 2 + 2 = 4, I
*strongly* recommend that you urge them to trade it
En relación a [PEN-L:1168] Re: A slight advantage of poverty (w,
el 2 Sep 00, a las 7:49, Brad De Long dijo:
I would have thought that we would approve the replacement of
nationalist-militarist iconography--that you win honor by killing
others and dying for your hierarchical superiors
An interesting excerpt from a column written a couple of years ago
by The Nation's own neoconservative leftist, Eric Alterman, part of
a classic pomo-bashing screed:
"But here's the twist. [Labor historian Nelson] Lichtenstein is part
of a perfectly Rortyite reformist Campaign for a Living
G'day Nicole,
You are assuming that everyone knows that 2 + 2 = 4 or Ottawa is the
capital
of Canada. Some people could care less and it may or may not be a part of
what makes up their reality. If something is not part of a person's
reality
then it can not possibly influence what they think
It is good to risk one's own life for revolution. And in the
battlefield (I ignore if you have ever had that experience, even that
of the modest battlefield of a square where your cherished and
respected political leaders, aged above 60, run to escape tear gas
and you can physically feel the
The ad smallpox has been particularly notorious (and nefarious) in
Buenos Aires since the late 1980s and (I suspect) in most large Third
World capitals. Starved to death, for example, the local city
administration (Intendencia de Buenos Aires, now pompously and
reactionarily known as Gobierno de
Brad, the Cliff Notes statement was wrong, but I thought that you jumped
it up a couple of notches.
True. Apologies...
Is it possible to teach a Marxist theory of value today in an
undergraduate course, as a matter of academic politics? One
purpose of my new book, From Capitalism to Equality...
The problem, of course, is the labor theory of value is "true" and
"operates" always and everywhere, while the
Barkley wrote:
... Let me mention one more aspect of this that may extend beyond
just the confines of the principles of econ class. If you
were following at all closely you may noticed me making a big deal
about whether books were using a vertical AS curve or not.
This assumption, increasingly
Jim,
But usually this Say's Law argument is dragged
in for the long run analysis. But, the new wave led
by the execrable Mankiw (with even Colander now
tagging along, bah) is to place this huge emphasis
on long run growth. I imagine that Brad D. approves
of this, given his ten billion
August 20, 2000 / New York TIMES
RECKONINGS By PAUL KRUGMAN
Most Unkindest Cuts
There was a word missing from Al Gore's acceptance speech on
Thursday. Not once did he describe hisopponent's plans as "risky."
He still warned about the size of George W. Bush's proposed tax
cuts -- about $1
Larry Ball's interpretation of New Zealand is that it is a victim of
intensive monetarism: that as you look across the OECD, the more
aggressive the fight against inflation was, the longer it was
pursued, the the feebler were the stimulative policies of the late
1980s, the greater was the
Shows the advantages to be gained from not practicing what you preach, if
what you preach is a load of BS. Is there any evidence to suggest that the
"Washington Consensus" was NOT a deliberate ploy by the U.S. to gain
macroeconomic advantage by sabotaging the performance of its acolytes?
Brad
Bill, if NZ growth is slow, how far down the income distribution do
you have to go
before you find stagnating incomes?
--
Michael Perelman
Economics Department
California State University
Chico, CA 95929
Tel. 530-898-5321
E-Mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Not very far at all. My belief was that every
So what's going to be in the new _State of Working America_?
So what's going to be in the new _State of Working America_?
A few tidbits . . . Release date is 9/3.
documents extent and nature of recent wage growth,
productivity, and inequality trends
discusses the "new economy" (sic)
benefits of recent high employment
mbs
Labor-force upgrading in a
BDL's new piece on Nader is civil enough, but it got me to thinking
about a point that has come up before -- the business of comparing
consumer benefits to worker losses in trade debates. Henwood
brought this up (once) and provoked in me the realization that the
logic of this exercise
Brad, you can do much better than this. For the most part, you have listed a
number of charges that can be levelled at most anti-democratic countries.
Not so. The regimes we have seen in the twentieth century are
different and new. Hannah Arendt was not dumb, and was not stupid in
thinking
Your thought is similar to the Nazis on this issue. This sounds like
some rightwing promotion of the same lie that the Nazis committed
in naming their party a workers' party: the deception that fascists
and socialists are similar.
In what sense is it a deception? Observers from George
The true political center , unlike you, allied with the Soviet Union
to fight fascism in WWII.
For the record, the "unlike you" is knowingly false, malicious,
mendacious, and libelous.
Brad DeLong
Do you have a citation for this? Zinoviev and Kamenev pleaded guilty to the
charge of trying to organize a fascist counter-revolution against a
socialist state in the Moscow trials. Frankly I am not interested in
arguing Soviet history with you, but I do like to keep up with
anticommunist
And Stalin? No communist at
all--always an Okhranik
infiltrator, certainly in his way of thought and practice, and
probably in fact.
Shane Mage
Possibly...
It's always been a very intriguing hypothesis, but the hard evidence
is (and forever will be) lacking...
Brad DeLong
This discussion is positively fruitless. Sometimes people on the left have
called somebody else a fascist when they disagree with that person. In that
sense, Brad is free to think that the Soviets and the Nazis were similar
since he regards both regimes as murderous.
As you know, the
we want the center to agree that communists and fascists are as
different as night and day.
Sorry, but I'm afraid we won't.
Recall the common attachment to cults of personality, the common
drive to "coordinate" society, the common fear of elections and
hatred of parliamentary politics. We
Reading Ken's summary should remind us about how abstract the debate was;
how foreign it was to the real process of planning.
Yet in the long run considerations like those raised in the socialist
calculation contributed mightily to the economic stagnation of the
Soviet Union...
Brad DeLong
Yesterday the United States! Today the OECD! Tomorrow the World! (It
ain't Utopia, but it's the only game in town--unless you think, like
Lars-Erik Neilsen in the _New York Review of Books_, that Mexicans
ain't fit to assemble staplers and should go back to the subsistence
agriculture that they
Actually, Matthew Evangelista has established that the Star Wars
hoax did not induce the Soviets to increase military expenditures.
Soviet growth rates are a vexed matter. Your statement of the matter
represents the normal view as of, say, 1985, and it still may be
right, but there were other
himm? I don't see any mentioning of Durkheim,Weber and Marx in the below
post, but Rostow. Being highly critical of Rostow's modernization
theory, IW
is a *still* a modernist. You don't need to be anti or post
modernist to be a
critical of Rostow...
If I understand IW's main
And so is Soviet-style socialism. So what's left?
Doug
...most of all, revolutionary Cuba
Louis Proyect
There's your answer: 40-year long dictatorship as the *model* we are
supposed to aim for...
Right.
Brad DeLong
Brad De Long wrote:
If I understand IW's main criticism of Rostow, it was that Rostow
imagined countries "modernizing" and undergoing similar processes
at different times--but that the structure of the world system
prevented a "peripheral" country from becoming a &q
None of this is in Rostow's theory. His theory is worse than the
crudest of the crude Marxian stage theories.
Jim Devine [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://bellarmine.lmu.edu/~jdevine
I guess I should say something good about crude Marxian stage
theories (which actually ain't that bad), and about GA
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I heard Wallerstein speak recently. He was contemptuous of Marxists,
implying that they had a simplistic way of looking at the world.
Obviously, some of us do, but his characterization was all-inclusive.
And don't you think that piece was just a little fevered? The
Europe was born in June 2000. Of course, we have been talking about
Europe for 50-odd years now. But heretofore Europe has meant western
Europe, not Europe from the Atlantic to the Urals, dear to both Charles
de Gaulle and Mikhail Gorbachev. Hitherto, the Germans would not really
hear
Given that this is the typical reaction to any honest election, it
any wonder that the left in the past century has been so eager to
lick the boots of so many dictators?
Brad DeLong
Actually, your government has a remarkable history of subsidizing
fascist forces
against leftist
Nice writing, Brad!
Thanks. *Blush*
... high water mark of belief in Progress. By and large the past two
centuries
have seen the reaction, and confidence in human Progress -- technological,
political, humanistic, and moral -- fell out of intellectual favor.
I suspect an awful lot of that
Mebbe we were interactive long before notions like mutual benefit occurred
to us. I reckon the 'utility' we derive from cooperation isn't a choice we
make; rather it *is us*.
I think it's more complicated than that. We're inclined toward
cooperation. We are reluctant to engage in unprovoked
Not being enough of an expert on Mexican politics to publish my
speculations in the New York TIMES, I would appreciate hearing if anyone
agrees or disagrees with my analysis.
Tony Abdo, of the Marxism list, has been following the Mexican elections
and was there during the vote. Here a couple
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
YOU ARE GIVING ME GALLUP POLL INDICATORS HERE. YOU DON'T SEEM TO GET THE
BIG PICTURE. I WAS HARSH IN MY CRITICISM OF JOEL, BUT HE GOT THE POINT.
WHY NOT YOU? I WAS *NOT* REFERRING TO REPRODUCTIVE FREEDOMS IN THE SENSE
OF HAVING THE RIGHT TO ABORTION. I WAS REFERRING TO
Brad De Long wrote:
Does this mean that our ultimate goal is to get human population
down to one billion? I can see how we can stabilize world
population at 10 billion (maybe). I can't see how to get it down to
one billion...
Our resident Club of Rome is extremely discreet on the population
Re transitions. Even with socialist revolution by 2002 there will be a long
period of time before ecologically rational economies can be built
because of population pressures.
Does this mean that our ultimate goal is to get human population down
to one billion? I can see how we can stabilize
Brad DeLong, who *likes* his new dishwasher *a* *lot*...
There's a good comment by Richard Powers in his novel, GAIN, where
the protagonist wonders if the dishwasher is really worth it. After
all, she has to clean the dishes _before_ she puts them in the
washer. Then she has to scrape off
At 09:01 PM 6/29/00 -0700, you wrote:
Brad DeLong, who *likes* his new dishwasher *a* *lot*...
There's a good comment by Richard Powers in his novel, GAIN, where
the protagonist wonders if the dishwasher is really worth it.
After all, she has to clean the dishes _before_ she puts them in
the
Brad De Long wrote:
Even after watching 1900 House?
Didn't most of the improvement happen in the first half of the
century rather than the second?
Doug
For the American upper class, maybe. For the American working class
(and for almost everyone outside the U.S.), certainly not...
Brad
Brad says:
But that's why I like it. You don't have to pre-wash the plates,
and it gets them *clean*.
I heard an expert on this subject speaking on US National Public
Radio (one of their consumer-oriented shows). She said
unequivocally that the makers of dishwashers who claim that their
Doug Henwood wrote:
I think there's lots of oil left; the tighter constraint is that
burning all we have may well choke us. Maybe I'm wrong, but I think
the odds suck in betting against human ingenuity, even under
capitalism, at devising new energy sources. I think profit
imperatives
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I have found myself in agreement with Lou's recent post suggesting that
the roots of ecological crisis and overpopulation pressures lie in the
contradictions of capitalism, and that a socialist revolution is not
only necessary but also desirable if we are to have a
I don't understand. Is the YES meant to imply that electricity production
depends ultimately upon fossil fuels?
Unless you live in the Pacific Northwest or France, the bulk of your
electricity comes from power plants that burn fossil fuels...
By mistake, I've been sending pen-l my wrong web-page address, the
one that refers to the support group for parents of kids with
Asperger's Syndrome (mild autism) that my wife and I run. However,
if you're interested, click away. (Hey, it's my life away from
pen-l!)
Instead, the article
My key question was: accuracy for what purpose? I agree that for the
purpose of measuring real living standards, the Boskin revisions
lead to gross exaggeration of their rise.
Jim Devine [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://bellarmine.lmu.edu/~jdevine
Even after watching 1900 House?
Brad DeLong,
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