the reference for the essay that Matthew noted is: rrpe 17:3 (1985) "Toward a
Marxist Theory of Racism: Two Essays by Harry Chang" (edited by Liem and
Montague) pp.34-46.
here's a quote:
"If theories of 'natural races' err in transferring socio-relational categories
of racism to nature,
the bit in italics was actually an excerpt from an old post of louis' (not my
comments), which struck me as quite different to the blanket claim he was making
now that shiva was 'inimical' to marxism. if he can see his way to dialogue,
discussion and debate with the politics that shiva presents,
Louis Proyect wrote:
From what I can gather, Butler's work falls into a
category that I find sterile, namely "theory". I react to discussions of
"theory" the way my dad used to movies with subtitles.
much of marx's work is 'theory', no? a debate over texts, in this instacne the
texts of
louis is 'extremely familiar' with shiva, so he will know that shiva is not a
postmodernist, nor a poststructuralist, but third-worldist eco-feminist.
Louis Proyect wrote:
I am extremely familiar with Vandana Shiva's ideas and regard
them as inimical to everything that Marx stood for.
and,
the 'fraud' that jerry - in my opinion rightly - alluded to was that
here was someone claiming to know what a body of theory is all about
whilst at the same time explicitly celebrating a refusal to read (or
attend to the conference sessions regarding) what he claims to know,
since i guess, he
hi,
James Michael Craven wrote:
the
soc/antho/econ penchant for telling people what they already know or
is obvious
what specifically about butler, or even foucault, would you say fits this; ie, what
have they said which is
obvious but made to seem new or original because of the language
dennis is right to point to adorno, who i think has a far better take
on identity than many of those who get put under the auspices of
pomo. but louis, what is the notion of class-in-itself other than a
particular understanding of identity and its relation to revolution,
of the pasage in the
hi charles,
Charles Brown wrote:
But, Angela,
Whatever the name of Butler's theory,
that perspective doesn't have a
monopoly on the thinking of young
people today. I have 25 young
people here who are Black and
proud, African centered, admires
of Malcolm X, whatever.
They don't agree
oh louis,
sterile debates
around such questions. I think you are misunderstanding the entire context
of the term "self-determination". The question of "self" occupies a very
small place in Marxist politics, which is my speciality.
now, lou, you said self, i did not. yes, the self as the
louis,
you have not been listening at all. i have confronted certain
impasses and difficulties in my activism over the years, which i then
sought out readings for some wider sense of explanation - this i have
said countless times..
i'm not a fan of butler's, but if you think this is
apologies michael for extending this, but i thought it might be
important to situate this debate for those who have not read the
entirety of it.
Doug Henwood wrote:
Louis Proyect wrote:
If anything, there is a strange disjunction in your thinking on
so-called identity politics, where you
Rob Schaap wrote:
I still don't get it. Am I necessarily a liberal because I am a humanist?
well, yes, but a progressive or critical one, which as i said, is a step up from
rorty.
And can't freedom-from-exchange-relation be imagined from inside that
relation?
yes. i thought this was my
i've been fencing with a stomach bug, so a bit late in replying.
Rob Schaap wrote:
.I would [when you've a few minutes] like to see an advocacy
of the critical space the antihumanist is able coherently to make for
herself
well, isn't this earc for a critical space what confounds us all,
ajit,
please do send me a copy of your paper. looks interesting. what bit
or bits do you want me to elaborate on re the stuff about value?
regards,
angela
hi there rob,
a long discussion, so here's part one.
i think there's a lot of will in foucault, the will to power being the most
obvious example. is this too pessimistic in 'discipline and punish'? probably.
but foucault is certainly on the side of those who argue for will as a key
hi ajit,
Ajit Sinha wrote:
I would agree that surplus value is one of the central concepts in Marx. I
don't read Derrida's lectures as a definitive work on Marx--I don't think
there is even a pretention of this in the lectures. I think Derrida is
concentrating more on the idea of revolution
brad:
Look at the subject line...
i did. and...
Brad De Long wrote:
A critique of humanism allows one to look into many places, including
the abyss.
And then the abyss looks into you...
gee, can an abyss look? interesting nightmare you have there brad.
freud may have something to offer you on this fear of holes that 'look back',
hi all,
a conversation with someone several hundred kilometres away, via
telephone lines
of a few thousand... (i'm innumerate, so it doesn't really figure
anyway)
Rob Schaap wrote:
One or two 'scientific Marxists' aside, we were nearly all humanists in the
mid-seventies
and some important
hi all,
{i'm a bit confused where this thread may have originated or be at the
moment... so apologies for the xposting..}
can someone please explain to me the attraction of humanism? rob? never
could see it myself. maybe it's because it sounds all warm and cosy, but i
think it is nothing
hello ajit,
many of the things you say may well be the case, but a couple of comments: it
seemed to me that 'spectres of marx' was most interesting when it tackled many of
the themes that walter benjamin had tackled; that the notion of surplus value is
not simply - or even most importantly - a
hi all,
a slightly different take on the pomo stuff...
Louis Proyect wrote:
Derrida was a reaction against the notion that
there were any kind of intrinsic "structures" in history or society.
well, i think derrida was a very good student of kant's and hegel', in the
sense that he showed,
ahh, i feel sooo patriotic.
angela
http://www.theage.com.au/daily/981201/breaking/
The Age Breaking News with AAP
Australia 'ideal' for waste dump
Australian anti-nuclear activists today expressed concern over a US
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"Social Democracy thought fit to assign to the working class the role of the
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greatest strength. This training made the working class forget both its
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