Terry, what is your definition of rational? Are you saying that rational does not coincide with good and justifiable? Or are you saying that teenage women are incapable of rationality and only deserving of pity from us more rational, older, academic beings? Are you saying that rational is some objective quantity or method of thought which can be divorced from good and bad? I maintain that GIVEN THE CIRCUMSTANCES surrounding the lives of many young women, bearing children at an early age is a rational choice. The reasoning behind this statement is this: 1. The majority of children in this country are raised in a single female headed household for a part of their growing years. When I say single headed female household, I mean a very inclusive definition: divorced, abandoned, deserted, single mothers. When you add up all the categories, even if it is a few years between marriages, MOST children spend a significant portion of their growing years in a female headed household. Women heading households have a significantly higher labor force participation (LFP) rate than women who are married. I don't have the statistics off hand, but, if memory serves, the LFP for men in the society as a whole is somewhere around 75%, while the LFP for divorced women is somewhere around 77 or 78%. 2. Girls, like boys, learn their role models at a young age. If their model is a working mom supporting the family with little or no help from a male (at best a once removed man who sends checks), there is absolutely no reason to assume that these girls think their lives are going to be any different. 'If mom can do it, so can I. Mom does not have more children because she can't afford to take time off from work, so I will have my children young before I have to work.' 3. Psychological literature shows that girls tend to identify much more strongly with their mothers than boys do with either parent. In fact, girls tend not to psychologically separate themselves from their mothers till a much later age than boys. This strong identification leads to a strong repeat of roles from one generation to the next (reproduction). If most girls are being raised by single moms, it would be a real shock if many of them did NOT become single moms themselves at some point. I maintain that you don't see this as rational only because it is a rationality you can't identify with. In general, I think economists, and academics, don't want to accept this as a rational choice because it does not fit in with the definition of rational handed to us in graduate school. Further, this rationality is completely outside the judeo-christian ethic which was ingrained in most of us from birth. As a last point, it's a hell of a lot easier to see teen mothers as victims. This allows anyone (academics, politicians, economists, marxists, feminists, democrats, republicans, teachers, ......) to engage in an outsider's debate on the irrational actions of these victims. Taking away the priviledge of debating the actions of victims leaves only one alternative, facing the fact that maybe these girls are making the choices they do because they have no other choices. If they have no other choices, then there is something terribly wrong with our society and the way we are structured. If there is something fundamentally wrong with the way we structure our society for women, and teenage girls in particular, then we would actually have to try and do something about the problem. Ultimately, saying that all teenage girls who get pregnant act irrationally is a way of saying that all teenage girls get what they deserve -- babies and poor prospects. The problem is not with the system. maggie coleman [EMAIL PROTECTED] In a message dated 96-11-27 08:51:35 EST, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Terrence Mc Donough) writes: >There is a tendency in one of Maggie C.'s posts in this thread to >identify the notion of rationality with concepts of good or >justifiable. What is rational may not be good (if only because of >externalities in this case on the child and grandmother). What is >good may not be rational. > >I doubt that young women are conceiving early in order to facillitate >their labour market participation in their 20s and 30s. Having a >child in search of a meaning and purpose in life in the face of a >hostile society which bars the way to any other road in pursuit of >these goals seems to me a more likely explanation of teen pregnancy >among the disadvantaged. This motivation doesn't seem to me to be >rational but it is hardly dishonorable. > >Terry McDonough > > >----------------------- Headers -------------------------------- >Return-Path: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >Received: from anthrax.ecst.csuchico.edu (anthrax.ecst.csuchico.edu >Received: from anthrax (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by anthrax.ecst.csuchico.edu >Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 05:49:27 -0800 (PST) >Message-Id: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >Originator: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >Sender: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >Precedence: bulk >From: Terrence Mc Donough <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Subject: [PEN-L:7601] Re: Technology Shock and Teen Pregnancy >X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas >X-Comment: Progressive Economics --------------------- Forwarded message: From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Terrence Mc Donough) Sender: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 96-11-27 08:51:35 EST There is a tendency in one of Maggie C.'s posts in this thread to identify the notion of rationality with concepts of good or justifiable. What is rational may not be good (if only because of externalities in this case on the child and grandmother). What is good may not be rational. I doubt that young women are conceiving early in order to facillitate their labour market participation in their 20s and 30s. Having a child in search of a meaning and purpose in life in the face of a hostile society which bars the way to any other road in pursuit of these goals seems to me a more likely explanation of teen pregnancy among the disadvantaged. This motivation doesn't seem to me to be rational but it is hardly dishonorable. Terry McDonough