In a message dated 10/1/02 7:28:57 PM Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Carrol Cox wrote:
But again, my central point is that incontinent use of the label
"fascist" shows a naive faith in the goodness of simple capitalist
democracy.
If capitalist democracy were such a total
In a message dated 10/1/02 6:07:55 PM Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Carrol Cox wrote,
To call the Bush administration fascist is capitalist apologetics.
It is also bad American history. The Bush administration's ideological
extremism is as "American as cherry pie". Fascism
"What made up the fascist character of the counter revolution was not simply its brutality or violence, but the fact that the 'revolt of the poor whites' cloaked itself in the mantle of saving the South. The fascist led 'revolt' was the absolute agent of finance capital of the North. The
Title: RE: [PEN-L:30837] Re: bullying
I wrote:I'm not the one doing the reifying. It's the people in the U.S. who do so. If the left ever wants to get anywhere, it needs to be conscious of political opinion (without kow-towing to it).
Charles J. writes:
Why don't you cite just one opinion
You can say the US leadership are bullies, I agree with you. But they still
rule from within the law, and with a mandate from the America people. Sure
they manipulate the press as much as they can, but ultimately the press is
free, and the people will search out the free press. Yes Saddam is a
I was disappointed that my note about the real bullying of the United States
degenerated into a rhetorical debate until Seth jumped in. His point about the
rise of socialism in the early part of the last century was interesting, but, in
fact, socialism was growing very rapidly throughout the
Title: RE: [PEN-L:30825] Re: bullying
Charles writes:
Sure, people in the armed forces would tell you
they were happy with American democracy, even
though most don't even have the basic rights of
citizens. Most wouldn't know they had given up
those rights when they joined. Most would
This is not the way that we communicate here on this list. Please, cool
it.
On Wed, Oct 02, 2002 at 04:04:18PM -0700, Charles Jannuzi wrote:
Why don't you cite just one opinion poll that
supports your assertion--at least that way I'll
have something of substance to rip to shreds.
That would be your decision. You have considerable information to
contribute, but bringing disputes over from other lists poisons the
discussion here. It's your choice whether you want to participate or not,
but participation will require a moderation of the behavior.
On Wed, Oct 02, 2002 at
Lisa Stolarski wrote:
I don't think your rant is mindless, Michael. I really do believe we are
watching the rise of a kinder, sneakier fascism. It is just as racist and
as violent as the old fascism, but more totalitarian and therefore more
sublimated, couched in euphemisms about ending
Title: RE: [PEN-L:30786] Re: bullying
This is almost like self-enforced 'political
correctness' from concerned parties of the left.
Don't use that word 'fascist', they'll just make
us eat our words.
I think the problem is that the word fascism has been over-used. Back in the 1960s, it
Devine, James wrote:
This is almost like self-enforced 'political
correctness' from concerned parties of the left.
Don't use that word 'fascist', they'll just make
us eat our words.
I think the problem is that the word fascism has been over-used.
Back in the 1960s, it became a
Carrol Cox wrote:
But again, my central point is that incontinent use of the label
fascist shows a naive faith in the goodness of simple capitalist
democracy.
If capitalist democracy were such a total sham, how come you're not
in jail? Is it just because you're so marginal? Or is the thing
Tom Walker wrote:
Stark alternatives -- those who don't have naive faith must believe the
thing is a total sham. One could base a fundamentalism on such a
dichotomy. It may sound like a pedantic distinction, but capitalist
democracy is not a synonym for bourgeois democracy.
And Doug
Sabri Oncu wrote:
Tom wrote:
Stark alternatives -- those who don't have
naive faith must believe the thing is a
total sham. One could base a fundamentalism
on such a dichotomy.
This has always been my problem with many a discussions on this
and most other lists. It is as if
Title: Re: [PEN-L:30788] RE: Re: bullying
Well perhaps it might be helpful to define what I mean when I use the word 'fascist' since I brought it up. I mean a military industrial complex which increasingly seeks control of its own people as well as other peoples and nations. I mean a political
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