Brad DeL. is surely hoping that this complex
lunatic stays away from the jep.
Hey. The complexity piece is quite nice, in its complex way...
--
Rosser Jr, John Barkley
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
I know there's a political side to this issue, but I would like to
mention a useful technocratic device: fairly continuous classroom
assessment. I was converted to this approach many years ago, and I
think it makes a huge difference. The basic idea is not to wait until
exams and term papers to
On Wed, February 10, 1999 at 21:34:25 (-0500) Michael Yates writes:
the problem is that many of my students do seem interested. and i do
agree that the quiz is pretty pathetic. but i used to read 2000 papers
a term, with rewrites and lots more interest on my part. it did not
seem to make much
Bill Lear throws out some good ideas, but much more important is the sweetness and
comradeship in his post. Sweetness for Michael Yates and for the students as
well.
Thank you Bill.
Gene Coyle
William S. Lear wrote:
On Wed, February 10, 1999 at 19:14:12 (-0500) Michael Yates writes:
Michael,
I have found the most successful way of 'forcing' students to
prepare and think is to give them all their exam questions ahead of
the exam (by a few weeks), questions which cover the whole
course, with the promise that a selection of the questions will be
selected by a random method
Jim,
I too have great reservations about the technology theories -- in part
because the attempts to test them empirically have not proven very
successful, and, in the case of Schumpeter, there is no concept of
swings or stages and the initial innovation is exogenous to the
system.
I have a
-Original Message-
From: Louis Proyect [EMAIL PROTECTED]
It shocks me that you lack
even the most elementary self-awareness of your own political views.
Doug
yeah, Doug, why won't you just play along? Louis understands you,
loves you like a brother...
angela
-Original Message-
From: Louis Proyect [EMAIL PROTECTED]
All that nonsense about peasants wanting to flee "rural
idiocy" gets put in the garbage can where it belongs.
we are not in the 17th century, when it is still possible to be a
peasant outside capitalism. we are in the 20th C,
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As someone who lives in both the Indian and non-Indian worlds, and just
returned today from the Peigan Blackfoot Reservation in Browning and the
Kainai Blackfoot Reservation in Alberta, I felt compelled to comment.
There
Of course the progressive aspects of capitalism are such that they are fettered
by the nature of capitalism itself and as you say may, in a sense, turn into
something that is reactionary. Just to quote briefly from a piece by Ed Finn in
the most recent CCPA
Monitor p. 5 (Feb. 99) "Global
I. CONGRATS PEN-L!
* Digest #177 was 411K!
* There were 87 posts in Digest #177!
II.
* One person wrote 18 posts yesterday!!!
This is insanity. Who has time to read this quantity of posts/day?
(Answer: only those without a life).
Given this volume and free-rider effect abuse,
Jerrey Levy:
E.g. why don't we (in the presence of this overwhelming volume!) have a
limit (let's say 3) for the maximum amount of posts that can be sent per
day per subscriber?
This is such crap. When I first got on PEN-L 4 years ago, there were often
more than a hundred messages a day on the
-Original Message-
From: Robin Hahnel [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Tuesday, February 09, 1999 11:33 AM
To: Louis Proyect
Subject: Re: [PEN-L:3052] Aztecs
We have to be careful not to confuse Aztec or Inca domination over the
tribes in their empire with what the Europeans did. In
ON THE WSWS
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What is needed is a qualitative rating system where people could vote on the
overall quality, relevance, uniqueness etc. of each other's messages. Each
list member's volume limit could then be adjusted to reflect the previous
month's quality standing. Three per day for the top ten, two for the
You don't believe that capitalism has progressive aspects?
I thought you were a Marxist?
How can you hold both that capitalism has no progressive
aspects and that you are a Marxist at one and the same time?
There are numerous passages in Marx filled with praises of
capitalism's
Jim Devine nailed the differences
on the head by pointing out the unique forms of exploitation that attend
commodity production as opposed to the tributory economy of the Incan empire.
Difference lies on the state of development. Expoitation intensifies
with the rise of civilizations or
Friends,
But is it not true that Managua's population swelled to encompass a huge
fraction of the population precisely because of the war in the countryside? I
don't think we should understate the attachments of peasants to the land.
Should we applaud the movement of millions of Chinese into
Louis,
We've been through this one before, but you've
forgotten. There were almost regular and periodic revolts
by the Indians in Peru from the 1500s on. See _The Ghost
Dance_ by Weston LaBarre for a good accounting of them.
The claim that there was little native resistance until the
Wasn't Lenin's view that the revolution could occur at the weakest link in the
capitalist
imperialist chain? He nevertheless expected the chain to break, for there to be a
worldwide
anti-capitalist revolution. It was Stalin wasn't it who was the proponent of
socialism in
one country? Is my memory
Michael Yates wrote:
But is it not true that Managua's population swelled to encompass a huge
fraction of the population precisely because of the war in the countryside? I
don't think we should understate the attachments of peasants to the land.
Should we applaud the movement of millions of
Nicaragua's population, according to the superficial bourgeois
statisticians at the World Bank, is 63% urban, with 26% in "urban
agglomerations of over 1 million." Attributing the revolution "primarily"
to "peasant resentment over the loss of land" would suggest a narrow social
base for the
Friends,
I don't see how it will be possible not to "depopulate" Mexico City and Managua.
Both cities are absolutely unviable in terms of survival in any meaningful human
sense. I wonder if a radical land reform would not attract millions of people to
flee thes urban hell-holes. Are people
Doug:
The WB says 53% of the population was urban in 1980. Of course the urban
population is swelled by dispossession (just like England a couple of
centuries ago), and in the case of Central America, by war. But they're
there in cities now. What would an appropriate policy be? Back to the land?
Probably a final footnote on these threads...
I think we all agree by now that the transactors in
those initial European/Indian contacts really did not know
what was coming, although some had very definite plans,
especially those on religious conversion missions such as
many of the
Doug Henwood wrote:
Louis Proyect wrote:
My experience is in Central America and I can tell you that the revolutions
of the 1980s which led to a major political crisis in the United States
called "contragate" were primarily an expression of peasant resentment over
loss of land.
Valis wrote,
My problem, post-Means, is that socialism, as it would play out
in an urban-industrial matrix, is, to a distressing degree,
an extension of the thing it is meant to replace.
I think there's a problem with language here. Christians,
capitalists, Marxists, all of them have
Dear Pen-L,
Some years ago I did a very serious search to find everything written by
Kondratieff that had been translated into English. I found that there is
very, very little primary source material in English ,and, not a lot of
good secondary stuff worth quoting. ( I'm not real down on Arthur
and a growing economy with growing real incomes for the majority of
society. The
problem with peasant agriculture is to raise productivity enough to create a
surplus that can be reinvested into the economy. Incentives are needed to
raise
productivity, then there is the infamous problem of
At 02:31 PM 2/10/99 -0500, you wrote:
Sam Pawlett wrote:
raise peasant productivity
If you do that, then don't you disemploy peasants?
Doug
This happened all the time in Cuba, except they didn' t have unemployment
like in Jamaica or the Dominican Republic. What happened was that the
children
Ken Hanly wrote:
Are these references to John Locke's tabula rasa and to a certain
work by John Cage :)
Sam Pawlett wrote:
Yes, that was my updated version of 4'33. Hope you enjoyed it. This has
been a Sam Pawlett rip-off concert.
Louis writes: This happened all the time in Cuba, except they didn' t
have unemployment
like in Jamaica or the Dominican Republic.
Dennis writes: Incidentally, I was just in Jamaica thanks to a family
reunion. The
poverty there is something ferocious to behold -- the thing is, all the
Jim Devine wrote:
At the econ. convention in early January, I heard one speaker (Jagdish
Bhagwati?) talk about how the IMF was micromanaging the world. His example
was that the IMF guy (a young economist who knew nothing at all about
Jamaica) telling the government that they should switch from
Friends,
I have been a teacher for 30 years and by most accounts a good one. In
teaching economics and labor-oriented subjects I have developed hundreds
of concrete analyses, stories, etc. to make the material clear. Now I
know we have discussed on these lists the state of education, the nature
Mike Yates has written about his experiences teaching at
Pitt-Johnstown. I hope profs think more highly of us here at the Pitt
main campus!
John Lacny
Bill,
the problem is that many of my students do seem interested. and i do
agree that the quiz is pretty pathetic. but i used to read 2000 papers
a term, with rewrites and lots more interest on my part. it did not
seem to make much difference, and i just cannot physically do this
anymore.
John,
I think highly of most of my students. Higher education often saddens
me, but sometimes a student will come in who is doing poorly and tell me
a heart-wrenching story. I really feel bad and think this whole society
is so fucked up that I really ought to out there blowing up banks and
michael,
Maybe that prescription robot attendent job isn't as bad as it seemed, after
all?
regards,
Tom Walker
Peter Dorman wrote:
This is too bad, since there will never be intellectual agreement on the
left, nor should there be. The world is too complex and our
understanding too fragmentary; we will always need multiple points of
view and continuing dialog. The tragedy is that these intellectual
I'm a trigger-happy deleter, so it doesn't bother me to see
silicon-wasting flame wars on PEN-L. I do think the politics underlying
this hostility deserves consideration, though. Flame wars rage all over
the net for a variety of reasons, and I think many of them are
reproduced here, but PEN-L
On Wed, February 10, 1999 at 19:14:12 (-0500) Michael Yates writes:
... I have to say that the level of
illiteracy and general stupidity seems to be rising among students. the
most basic words are unknown to them, and they never bother to look them
up. I have to
I am on the editorial board of the Journal of Poverty. We are seeking
submissions and subscriptions for our journal, so I am forwarding
this call for papers to progressive listserves. I hope you find our
journal interesting and consider us as a possible outlet (our abstracts
are on the web--
PEN-L'er Michael Hoover is the co-author of a book listed in the spring '99
Verso catalog:
CITY ON FIRE: Hong Kong Cinema
MICHAEL HOOVER AND LISA STOKES
Hong Kong's film industry gained global attention in the 1980s, at the time
of negotiations over Great Britain's return of the colony to
The folks from Counterpunch have asked me to tell you that they're finally
up on the web http://www.counterpunch.org. Stories posted include
Cockburn's hit on Hitchens, the war over Pacifica radio, and the
possibility that Judi Bari was blown up not by the FBI but by her ex.
Doug
Paul Phillips writes: I think there is some confusion and misunderstanding
about long wave/swing theory. The term wave or swing was substituted for
cycle precisely because of the debate over whether the process was
sinusoidal (cyclical) or sigmoidal (series of upswings followed by
stagnations
On Wed, 10 Feb 1999, Louis Proyect wrote:
This happened all the time in Cuba, except they didn' t have unemployment
like in Jamaica or the Dominican Republic.
Incidentally, I was just in Jamaica thanks to a family reunion. The
poverty there is something ferocious to behold -- the thing is,
On Wed, 10 Feb 1999, Louis Proyect wrote:
The simple reality was that the Sandinistas could not find a solution to
Nicaragua's economic problems within Nicaragua itself. Facing a US trade
embargo, it grew to depend heavily on outside assistance. The story of
outside assistance was not one to
Does anyone have any idea where I might find a quote like this?
In one of his essays Joseph Schumpeter remarks that if socialists would just
stop "chivvying the Bourgeoisie" for a moment they would realize a great
advantage of their system was that it did not depend upon taxation. He
meant that
Hi Friends,
Clinton's federal budget proposal calls for reducing the federal debt.
Where can I find information about his focus on debt-reduction as a
strategy to decrease government spending for the public and increase it
for the corporations and rich?
Thanks in advance.
Seth Sandronsky
Louis Proyect wrote:
This happened all the time in Cuba, except they didn' t have unemployment
like in Jamaica or the Dominican Republic. What happened was that the
children of campesinos received college educations for the first time ever
and they became doctors, teachers, engineers, etc. Cuba
"Rosser Jr, John Barkley" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 02/10 2:18
I agree with Jim Craven that what is needed is to deal
with ongoing wrongs and crimes and oppression where they
are going on, rather than attempting to undo history.
-
Charles: Of course, Jim Craven can speak for
Sam Pawlett wrote:
raise peasant productivity
If you do that, then don't you disemploy peasants?
Doug
--64EA17119BF008730BEE7D52
From: Carol McDavid
We'd like to announce a new web site which may be of interest to
archaeologists, historians, and others interested in public interpretations
of archaeology and history.
The Levi Jordan Plantation web site
Are these references to John Locke's tabula rasa and to a certain
work by John Cage :)
Sam Pawlett wrote:
I wrote yesterday that, according to Frank, one of the favorable things
Europe had to overcome its marginal role in the world economy,
after the Kodratieff downturn of the 1760s, was cheap sources
of capital. Another thing concerns the relative prices of wood/coal
and of labor. But before
A couple of points:
Keynes said, apropos the world's economic outlook, 1932, "This is not a
crisis of poverty, but a crisis of abundance."
Franklin Roosevelt claimed in 1928 that it would take nothing less than the
shock of a depression to bring about the rationalization of the U.S.
Yesterday Alexander Cockburn attacked Christopher Hitchens as a snitch and
a drunk in his NY Press column. Hitchens was in the news because of his
testimony in the Senate trial of Bill Clinton. He stated that long-time
friend Sidney Blumenthal had told him that Monica Lewinsky was a stalker,
Ricardo,
Sorry. I meant to say 50 years, not centuries.
Braudel sees the collapse of the tenth century as the
result of a century of depravations due to the Viking
invasions, which started earlier, along with a final
collapse of leftover Roman urban settlements.
Barkley Rosser
On Wed,
Louis Proyect wrote:
My experience is in Central America and I can tell you that the revolutions
of the 1980s which led to a major political crisis in the United States
called "contragate" were primarily an expression of peasant resentment over
loss of land.
Nicaragua's population, according to
G. Levy, now ex-pen-l, complains about the number of posts on pen-l,
especially from non-economists.
I don't think the relevant distinction is between economists and
non-economists. After all, if Robert Barro (a superstar among economists)
were on pen-l, everyone would want to shun him. And
Valis quoting Russell Means:
I think there's a problem with language here. Christians,
capitalists, Marxists, all of them have been revolutionary
in their own minds. But none of them really mean revolution.
What they really mean is a _continuation_. They really do
what they do
I am sorry to report that I felt that I had to unsub Levy. I have asked
him to be more constructive, but he insisted in doing whatever he could
to provoke a flame war with Doug and especially with Louis. Both showed
forebearance, which we can all appreciate.
--
Michael Perelman
Economics
Gerald Levy wrote:
The problem isn't that there are non-economists on this list. The problem
is that this list -- *which is defined as a list for economists* -- has,
in practice, been taken over by non-economists.
So Jer, what would you rather discuss? We're game, and I'll even shut up a
while
At 12:47 AM 2/10/99 -0500, Jim Craven wrote:
The "Indians" are not saying give it all back and get out. What is being said
is that the rape even continues in addition to the lies and cover-ups of the
past. "Development", a euphemism for predatory malignant capitalism, needs,
feeds on and
Robin Hahnel:
I have no disagreement with much of the rest of the above. And I have
been made aware that the ecological technology present throughout the
Incan empire in many ways was more advanced than any found in the same
places today. [My daughter is an archeologist currently studying
This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand
this format, some or all of this message may not be legible.
--_=_NextPart_000_01BE5501.02F8F390
BLS DAILY REPORT, TUESDAY, FEBRUARY 9, 1999
RELEASED TODAY: Preliminary productivity data - as measured by output per
How can you hold both that capitalism has no progressive aspects and that you
are a Marxist at one and the same time? THere are numerous passages in Marx
filled with praises of capitalism's progressive features, of the manner in
which
it releases the productive forces of nature and frees people
Barkley, perhaps because pen-l was inundated by postings yesterday,
the logic of my own post may have escaped readers, but if you read my
paragraph on long waves, cited again below, you will see that what I
say about Frank's long waves (which are *not* the same as Braudel's
long duree) is
Angela:
we are not in the 17th century, when it is still possible to be a
peasant outside capitalism. we are in the 20th C, where the condition
of being a peasant or on the land for most people is not so much rural
idiocy, but rural drudgery for sure, and an increasingly impoverished
one at
Now that's an evasion of the invasion.
CB
"Rosser Jr, John Barkley" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 02/09 5:30 PM
Charles,
Aw, heck. The Indians should tell the Europeans to go
back where they came from. And I think that the Basques
should tell all of those blankety blank Aryans to go back
where
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Ken,
I think your comments are well taken on one level. It is true that in one
sense, in one context, the ProfitPower imperatives and dynamics of
capitalism do indeed lead to risktaking andn investments that lead to
The Zapatista armed struggle going on right now is based in Mayan
culture, Marxism and another theory I forgot, according to the
representative I heard speak a few years ago.
here's a link:
http://www.eco.utexas.edu/faculty/Cleaver/zapsincyber.html
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