[PEN-L:5898] Press Reaction to Bombing of Serb TV and Radio

1999-04-25 Thread Ken Hanly
This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --26DDA9E395D7E29EE4E497A4 There has been considerable reaction to the bombing of Serb TV and radio especially the murderous attack in Belgrade that seems to have killed at a least a dozen people. Under the Geneva convention journalists

[PEN-L:5903] oyster-sized

1999-04-25 Thread Tom Walker
The opalescence [literally, opal-like] of some words just can't be left without comment. Ostracism is one of them. Ostracism is from the Greek ostrakízein which my Random House Webster's also tells me is akin to óstreion: oyster, shell. Oysters indeed have shells but are famous for their practice

[PEN-L:5904] Re: Press Reaction to Bombing of Serb TV and Radio

1999-04-25 Thread William S. Lear
On Saturday, April 24, 1999 at 23:26:55 (-0500) Ken Hanly writes: ... Robin Cook apparently bristles at the idea that NATO is engaged in a counter-propaganda campaign. He claims that NATO is only interested in getting the truth to the Serbian people. Is he an actor or what? ... Alex Cockburn had

[PEN-L:5906] Murders' Row

1999-04-25 Thread Max Sawicky
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Yoshie Furuhashi Subject: [PEN-L:5868] The Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine Condemns theAmerican-NATO Aggression on Yugoslavia From: Abu Nasr . . . THE POPULAR FRONT FOR THE LIBERATION OF PALESTINE CONDEMNS THE AMERICAN-NATO AGGRESSION

[PEN-L:5907] RE: Nobel laureates' Kosovo peace initiative!

1999-04-25 Thread Max Sawicky
Latest item on this was a report in the Post that the Yugo govt announced it would agree to no armed forces in Kosova, even if only to protect observers or human rights monitors. Whatever might have been done before the bombing began, much less two or four months ago, the new reality appears to

[PEN-L:5908] Yugo Govt Says No Foreign Troops

1999-04-25 Thread Max Sawicky
Here's a govt statement: http://www.suc.org/news/yds/#N2

[PEN-L:5909] RE: Trotsky, Ukrainian nationalism and Kosovo

1999-04-25 Thread Max Sawicky
. . . Trotsky argued that the right to national sovereignty in such cases had to be weighed against the broader needs of socialist revolution. Self-determination in this light might be revealed not as an end in itself, but as a tactic used to advance the class-struggle under given objective

[PEN-L:5910] Polemic and moderation

1999-04-25 Thread Tom Walker
Here's one response from the moderator of an unnamed other list to my web page announcement ("How Iatrogenic Economics Killed the Standard of Living -- http://www.vcn.bc.ca/timework/satanic.htm). I want to emphasize that I think the response was INTELLIGENT, AMIABLE and SINCERE. It also presents

[PEN-L:5911] Trotsky, Ukrainian nationalism and Kosovo

1999-04-25 Thread Louis Proyect
Max: There's nothing wrong with carnage per se -- as long as you nail the right people. Bruce Cockburn-- "If I Had a Rocket Launcher" here comes the helicopter -- second time today everybody scatters and hopes it goes away how many kids they've murdered only god can say if i had a rocket

[PEN-L:5916] Stupidity, Intelligence as (non)-political concepts Was: Re:Re: Press Reaction to Bombing of Serb TV and Radio

1999-04-25 Thread Carrol Cox
Tom Walker wrote: Ken Hanly asked, How can intelligent people come up with such mindless uncritical drivel and Pavlovian reactions? That's a rhetorical question. Don't you just love it when somebody answers a rhetorical question? The answer to this question requires rephrasing the

[PEN-L:5918] Why the US is in the Balkans

1999-04-25 Thread Louis Proyect
The war against Serbia is a proxy war against every vestige of anti-imperialist independence in Eastern Europe and the former Soviet Union. It is a signal to the Communists in Russia and allied states that Nato will blow them to kingdom come if they threaten the "stability" of the new

[PEN-L:5920] Re: RE: Trotsky, Ukrainian nationalism and Kosovo

1999-04-25 Thread Yoshie Furuhashi
Max wrote: There's nothing wrong with carnage per se -- as long as you nail the right people. That's NATO's position, not Lou's. Yoshie

[PEN-L:5922] Re: Brad De Long on working hours

1999-04-25 Thread Michael Perelman
The question of labor time he is fairly complicated. An individual worker in an individual job works fewer hours. A household with two wage earners might work more hours. How we factor in commute times? What about the workers holding two or three jobs, while others can only find the single

[PEN-L:5923] [yugoslavia-discuss] International Journalists Protest NATOAttack (fwd)Hammondc@aol.com

1999-04-25 Thread Yoshie Furuhashi
Taken to its logical conclusion, the NATO bombing of Serb TV (and the argument that it is a legitimate military target since it is part of the Yugo war machinery) may also be used to further curtail the (already very narrow) range of views that may be publicly expressed in NATO countries

[PEN-L:5924] Re: Re: Brad De Long on working hours

1999-04-25 Thread Henry C.K. Liu
Furthermore, looking only at US data is misleading since the US has been exporting labor intensive (and heavy lifting) jobs overseas, not to mention pollution. 3000 annual work hours is still the norm in the Third World. Neo-liberal economists should be apologising for their general failures

[PEN-L:5925] Re: Why the US is in the Balkans

1999-04-25 Thread Gar Lipow
Louis Proyect wrote: 1. The "final crisis" of capitalism. I feel it is clearer by the days that we have finally entered the "final crisis". As usual with history, things are never the way one anticipates them, but the current tendency to lower average global wages (substituting

[PEN-L:5926] Re: Vietnam War Impact

1999-04-25 Thread Yoshie Furuhashi
Paul Phillips wrote: I have been asked by a friend whose daughter is doing an undergrad history paper on the Vietnam War in which she is supposed to discuss the economic impact. However, in her reading to date she has found little on the economic impact and I was asked to recommend some sources.

[PEN-L:5928] Re: Re: Why the US is in the Balkans

1999-04-25 Thread Henry C.K. Liu
The final crisis of capitalism has already occurred. Just like the war to end all wars has produced the permanent miltarization of the peace, and reduced all future wars to police actions, the final crisis of capitalism, though less visible and dramatic, has depersonalized the capitalist and

[PEN-L:5929] Re: Re: Re: How Iatrogenic Economics Killed theStandard of Living

1999-04-25 Thread Thomas Kruse
Re: "It is questionable if all the mechanical inventions yet made have lightened the day's toil of any human being." (John Stuart Mill, as quoted by the big fella at the head of chapter 15 of *Capital*) Thanks, Tom! Rob. Since John Stuart Mill wrote this, the average urban workyear in the

[PEN-L:5932] BRITAIN: KURD TV STATION CLOSED

1999-04-25 Thread Yoshie Furuhashi
Ken Hanley wrote: It is interesting that CNN and US broadcast sources who had been using the Serb TV facilities were given private warnings by NATO that they were to be bombed. It seems that they did not pass these warnings on to workers at Serb TV. They left the building knowing that Serb

[PEN-L:5934] Re: Tom Kruse on the Informal Sector

1999-04-25 Thread Michael Perelman
Here is Charles Babbage's description of the establishments for slaughtering horses at Montfaucon, near Paris in the nineteenth century: It describes the ingenuity and the hard work involved in the informal sector. It is one of my favorites. 1. The hair is first cut off from the mane and

[PEN-L:5935] Re: How Iatrogenic Economics Killed the Standard of Living

1999-04-25 Thread Tom Walker
Gene Coyle wrote: This unnamed correspondent thinks we, the workers, are expressing preferences for long hours? Alas, this problem seems unlikely to be solved - paradoxically, for the same reasons why the opposite problem of motivating couch potatoes to do something useful with their lives

[PEN-L:5938] Re: Brad De Long on working hours

1999-04-25 Thread Tom Walker
Brad De Long wrote: Nevertheless, the curious thing is the fall in the average urban workweek from 3000 to 2000 hours, followed by pronounced stickiness at 2000 (although western Europe may be in a generation-long process of dipping to 1500)... There's a lot of curious things about the hours of

[PEN-L:5939] Re: Re: Tom Kruse on the Informal Sector

1999-04-25 Thread Peter Dorman
Yes, but didn't Siegfried Giedeon claim (in MECHANIZATION TAKES COMMAND) that the French refused to adopt the assembly line in meatpacking (pioneered in Cincinnati) because of its "unnaturalness"? This was in the 1840's, which would be after Babbage. So cultural factors prevented a

[PEN-L:5940] Re: Andrei Shleifer

1999-04-25 Thread Peter Dorman
What I found interesting was: "Shleifer has never been formally charged with a misdeed, and he has denied any wrongdoing. He has separated, however, from the Harvard Institute, whose director is Jeffrey Sachs, also a Harvard economist. Asked about the announcement that Shleifer had won the Clark

[PEN-L:5937] Andrei Shleifer

1999-04-25 Thread michael
Andrei Shleifer won the John Bates Clark award. The New York Times said that his conflict of interest case did not enter into the considerations. What is the status of that case? Anybody know? -- Michael Perelman Economics Department California State University Chico, CA 95929 Tel.

[PEN-L:5931] Re: Re: Brad De Long on working hours

1999-04-25 Thread Brad De Long
The question of labor time he is fairly complicated. An individual worker in an individual job works fewer hours. A household with two wage earners might work more hours. How we factor in commute times? What about the workers holding two or three jobs, while others can only find the single

[PEN-L:5930] Query on history of EPA, Consumer Protection Agency, etc.

1999-04-25 Thread William S. Lear
I had a brief debate with my brother recently about the EPA and other "anti-business" government institutions. I know that the EPA is not necessarily anti-business, as some businesses benefit from regulation, and might welcome more stringent standards to help drive out competitors. Does anyone

[PEN-L:5927] Re: [yugoslavia-discuss] International Journalists Protest NATOAttack (fwd)

1999-04-25 Thread Ken Hanly
It is interesting that CNN and US broadcast sources who had been using the Serb TV facilities were given private warnings by NATO that they were to be bombed. It seems that they did not pass these warnings on to workers at Serb TV. They left the building knowing that Serb workers were about to be

[PEN-L:5921] [KCTU] Preparing for Possible Police Raid as the Strike Goes into6th Day

1999-04-25 Thread Yoshie Furuhashi
Korean Confederation of Trade Unions 5th Fl. Daeyoung Bld., 139 Youngdeungpo-2-ga, Youngdeungpo-ku, Seoul 150-032 Korea Tel.: +82-2-636-0165 Fax: +82-2-635-1134 E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://kctu.org KCTU News April 24, 1999 Sixth Day of Strike: Weekend Looms as the Critical Turning Point

[PEN-L:5917] Re: oyster-sized

1999-04-25 Thread Carrol Cox
Tom Walker wrote: Lewis Carroll wrote a poem about oysters I weep for you, the Walrus said, I deeply sympathize. With sobs and tears he sorted out Those of the largest size. Carrol It also contains the beautiful lines: The time has come, the Walrus said, To speak of many things. Of ships

[PEN-L:5915] Re: Re: How Iatrogenic Economics Killed the Standardof Living

1999-04-25 Thread Brad De Long
Re: "It is questionable if all the mechanical inventions yet made have lightened the day's toil of any human being." (John Stuart Mill, as quoted by the big fella at the head of chapter 15 of *Capital*) Thanks, Tom! Rob. Since John Stuart Mill wrote this, the average urban workyear in the

[PEN-L:5913] Re: Re: How Iatrogenic Economics Killed the Standard of Living

1999-04-25 Thread Eugene Coyle
This unnamed correspondent thinks we, the workers, are expressing preferences for long hours? Gene Coyle Tom Walker wrote: Rob Schaap wrote: For what it's worth, Tom, I think your essay on neo-classical assumptions, measures and prescriptions as the miserable multiplication of misery

[PEN-L:5905] Re: How Iatrogenic Economics Killed the Standard of Living

1999-04-25 Thread Tom Walker
Rob Schaap wrote: For what it's worth, Tom, I think your essay on neo-classical assumptions, measures and prescriptions as the miserable multiplication of misery (iatrogenic) is bloody wonderful. - snip, snip - Thanks, Tom! And thank you, Rob. I hope your kind words will encourage others on

[PEN-L:5899] Nobel laureates' Kosovo peace initiative!

1999-04-25 Thread meisenscher
--- Forwarded Message Follows --- From: "Janet M. Eaton" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Sat, 24 Apr 1999 11:41:13 + Subject: Nobel Laureates' Kosovo Peace Initiative !! Ap 22 [EMAIL PROTECTED] "At the end of the press conference, the participants said it was

[PEN-L:5897] Fwd: Trotskyists and WWII

1999-04-25 Thread Nativejmc
--part1_f4e96039.2453e25f_boundary Louis, With eloquence and substance, presented and argued. By the way, anybody feel that the FBI Building, a building of the JUSTICE department, being named after J. Edgar (aka "Mary") Hoover is on the one hand quite appropriate, while on the other hand,