[PEN-L:6896] Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: military euro

1999-05-17 Thread Peter Dorman
Indeed, recent air attacks against FRY have been launched from Turkey. Peter "J. Barkley Rosser, Jr." wrote: Of course the US continues to barely bat an eyelash and provides Turkey with substantial military aid, along with all kinds of approval due to its continuing membership in

[PEN-L:6897] Re: Re: Re: Embassy Attack Fallout

1999-05-17 Thread Ajit Sinha
Henery: Sorry about a delayed response. I have been too busy finishing a paper, and in a couple of days I'll be leaving Delhi too. In anycase, in my opinion the idea of Russia-India-China counterweight to US led world hegemony does not have much weight. First of all both economically and

[PEN-L:6901] Kurds and Kosovars

1999-05-17 Thread J. Barkley Rosser, Jr.
Well, I am going to push this a bit further. Let's say that up to a million Kurds have been displaced in Turkey since 1984, with up to 35,000 killed (unclear how many of these are deaths of "innocent civilians," executions of unarmed but suspected guerrillas, or armed guerrillas killed

[PEN-L:6902] No change at the treasury

1999-05-17 Thread Michael Perelman
ZNet Commentary May 17, 1999 No Change at Treasury, But It Sure is Needed By Marc Weisbrot Treasury Secretary Robert Rubin picked a good time to resign. As a senior

[PEN-L:6903] petty/petit bourgeois

1999-05-17 Thread Jim Devine
I think that it's important to distinguish between objective positions within the capitalist class structure and people's ideology. When Marx talked about "petit bourgeois," he was referring to a specific social class, that of small business, which would today include independent professionals,

[PEN-L:6906] spies and PCs

1999-05-17 Thread Jim Devine
from Scott Shuger's SLATE column: The WP [Washington Post] reveals that a 25-year covert CIA operative was faulted for "a major lapse of CIA security" when he allowed about 25 CIA laptop computers to be sold to the public at auction while still containing Top Secret information on their hard

[PEN-L:6910] RE: Old foggies/fogeys

1999-05-17 Thread Tom Walker
I wrote: Yes, substitutionism. I hear there's also been an ocean of bloodletting against the name of Marx. I suspect that there would have been as much had there never been a Marx. By the way, the locus classicus for the critique of this "in the name of" substitutionism just happens to be the

[PEN-L:6911] Re: petty/petit bourgeois

1999-05-17 Thread Carrol Cox
If one wants to get at class the proper term in English would be "petty producer." ("Petty" means "small" in English too, with the context differentiating its meand as small from its meaning as "small-minded.") The advantage of "petty producer" is that it puts the burden of proof on those who

[PEN-L:6918] Re: RE: Old foggies/fogeys

1999-05-17 Thread DOUG ORR
I find the trajectory of the discussion under this title to be both an illuminating and depressing statement on the issue that was initially raised by Michael Perelman - and which has been largely ignored - why isn't heterodox economics "reproducing itself." A few posts tried to address the

[PEN-L:6919] The Makahs bag one!!!

1999-05-17 Thread Louis Proyect
Makahs harpoon, shoot whale by Lynda V. Mapes Seattle Times staff reporter NEAH BAY, Clallam County - The Makah tribe this morning killed a whale off the Washington coast - the first whale taken by the tribe in more than 70 years. Members of the eight-man whaling crew raised their fists

[PEN-L:6920] Re: Re: RE: Old foggies/fogeys

1999-05-17 Thread Peter Dorman
Doug's post was excellent. I have a tendency to fire off epistles when I have some criticism to make, but not when I like what I'm reading. Not good. So let me take the opportunity to underline Doug's excellent (and actually well-focused) thoughts. In the final analysis, it's the weakness of

[PEN-L:6921] Re: Re: Re: Re: RE: Old foggies/fogeys

1999-05-17 Thread Doug Henwood
Peter Dorman wrote: Just my point. Localism, self-reliance, and small enterprise have both positive and negative aspects. They have certainly been fetishized by a portion of the erstwhile (but no longer) left. Calling it petit bourgeois and dismissing it wholesale is not useful. Look, I

[PEN-L:6924] Crapulinski?

1999-05-17 Thread Tom Walker
I assume that "the hero Crapulinski" refers to Louis Bonaparte, but is it also an allusion to a fictional character? regards, Tom Walker http://www.vcn.bc.ca/timework/covenant.htm

[PEN-L:6923] Re: Rosser on Kurds/Kosovars

1999-05-17 Thread J. Barkley Rosser, Jr.
Paul, Your points are well taken. However, I do not see why NATO bombing in any way justifies the ethnic cleansing that is now going on big time. Killing the UCK/KLA is one thing. Deporting half the population and displacing most of the rest is quite another. How does this stop NATO

[PEN-L:6928] Re: Re: petit bourgeois

1999-05-17 Thread Doug Henwood
Peter Dorman wrote: Moreover, there is no simple correspondence between what people believe and their class background. This sort of ideology critique is mechanical and procrustean. Ideas are much too mediated for that framework to apply. (Why am I reminded of sociobiology all of a sudden?) I

[PEN-L:6929] Re: Rosser on Kurds/Kosovars

1999-05-17 Thread Brad De Long
Barkley, I have some difficulty with your whole discussion and comparison of the situation in Turkey and Kosovo. The reason is fairly straightforward. First, there was no genocide, ethnic cleansing, forced removal, denial of language rights, etc. etc. in Kosovo prior to the bombing. ... [O]n

[PEN-L:6930] Re: Rosser on Kurds/Kosovars

1999-05-17 Thread Tom Walker
Brad DeLong asked: Why this strange and pathetic attempt to deny the agency of those who are undertaking the ethnic cleansing? And why this attempt to make every Muslim in the region bar responsbility for the terrorist deeds of the KLA? Here's a long answer, if you don't mind concrete details.

[PEN-L:6931] Re: Re: Re: petit bourgeois

1999-05-17 Thread Peter Dorman
Doug Henwood wrote: Peter Dorman wrote: Moreover, there is no simple correspondence between what people believe and their class background. This sort of ideology critique is mechanical and procrustean. Ideas are much too mediated for that framework to apply. (Why am I reminded of

[PEN-L:6933] Re: Kurds and Kosovars

1999-05-17 Thread Michael Perelman
Why do it then? We are all exposed to the CNN stuff, as Lou P. has already noted. What good does that do? Nobody here is ready to make S.M. a hero. If he were President of the U.S., he might even possibly be as bad as Clinton. Governor Davis just executed Manny Babbit. His excuse was that

[PEN-L:6934] (Fwd) Human rights monitor with the OSCE Kosovo Verification M

1999-05-17 Thread ts99u-1.cc.umanitoba.ca [130.179.154.224]
--- Forwarded Message Follows --- Date sent: Mon, 17 May 1999 11:57:23 -0700 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] From: Sid Shniad [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject:Human rights monitor with the OSCE Kosovo Verification Mission (KVM)

[PEN-L:6937] (Fwd) WTO Leadership Race Exposes Deepening Polarisation Over

1999-05-17 Thread ts99u-1.cc.umanitoba.ca [130.179.154.224]
--- Forwarded Message Follows --- Date sent: Mon, 17 May 1999 14:29:05 -0700 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] From: Sid Shniad [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject:WTO Leadership Race Exposes Deepening Polarisation Over Globalisation

[PEN-L:6938] (Fwd) WHO IS REPRESENTED BY NATO? By Osvaldo Croci and Brian K

1999-05-17 Thread ts99u-1.cc.umanitoba.ca [130.179.154.224]
--- Forwarded Message Follows --- Date sent: Mon, 17 May 1999 11:33:04 -0700 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] From: Sid Shniad [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject:WHO IS REPRESENTED BY NATO? By Osvaldo Croci and Brian K. MacLean The

[PEN-L:6939] (Fwd) NATO BOMBING UNLEASHES ENVIRONMENTAL CATASTROPHE IN EURO

1999-05-17 Thread ts99u-1.cc.umanitoba.ca [130.179.154.224]
--- Forwarded Message Follows --- Date sent: Mon, 17 May 1999 11:57:01 -0700 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] From: Sid Shniad [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject:NATO BOMBING UNLEASHES ENVIRONMENTAL CATASTROPHE IN EUROPE International

[PEN-L:6940] (Fwd) Dr. Rosalie Bertell on Canada's role in producing deplet

1999-05-17 Thread ts99u-1.cc.umanitoba.ca [130.179.154.224]
--- Forwarded Message Follows --- Date sent: Mon, 17 May 1999 12:03:54 -0700 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] From: Sid Shniad [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject:Dr. Rosalie Bertell on Canada's role in producing depleted uranium

[PEN-L:6942] Re: Petit Cache

1999-05-17 Thread Peter Dorman
Now we're converging. I don't find the long form boring at all. I'm a big fan of the radical students of Max Weber on this stuff: Lucaks, Mannheim especially. (Yeah, I know, Lucaks could be pretty mechanical himself at times, but not always.) To move up a few decades, Barry Barnes is very

[PEN-L:6943] Re: (Fwd) WTO Leadership Race Exposes DeepeningPolarisation Over

1999-05-17 Thread Peter Dorman
What do we actually know about the stakes in this current battle? Is it just a matter of symbolism? Is Moore really the standard-bearer, as the western media claim, for a new surge of pro-labor and pro-environment reform? Or does the US suspect Supachai Panitchpakdi of being too soft on

[PEN-L:6948] WTO Leadership Race Exposes Deepening Polarisation OverGlobalisation

1999-05-17 Thread Michael Eisenscher
MEDIA RELEASE FOR IMMEDIATE USE 16 May 1999 GATT WATCHDOG, PO BOX 1905, CHRISTCHURCH, NZ. PH (03)3662803 WTO Leadership Race Exposes Deepening Polarisation Over Globalisation "There is a message to be learnt from the acrimony surrounding the unresolved Mike Moore-Supachai Panitchpakdi race

[PEN-L:6950] Re: Petit Cache

1999-05-17 Thread Tom Walker
Peter Dorman wrote: Now we're converging. . . Speaking of Weber and Lukacs, how about Georg Simmel's Philosophy of Money? Lukacs was a student both of Weber and Simmel and it was those two who "tinged the spectacles" through which Lukacs first saw "Marx, the sociologist". Simmel's Philosophy of

[PEN-L:6949] The FINANCIAL TIMES - World's richest 6m get richer

1999-05-17 Thread Michael Eisenscher
The FINANCIAL TIMES May 17 1999 World's richest 6m get richer By George Graham, Banking Editor The world's estimated 6m millionaires have shrugged off the effects of last year's financial turmoil and are getting richer by the day. New research

[PEN-L:6944] Doug Orr on the improtance of Program

1999-05-17 Thread Michael Perelman
Doug Orr made an excellent point. I have always found that giving people the opportunity to actually do something encourages their activism -- even if it is a matter of having people collect and organize clippings -- IF and only if other people acknowledge the importance of such work. --

[PEN-L:6941] petit/petty bourgoisie

1999-05-17 Thread Michael Perelman
I am not an expert on the idea of the petit bourgoisie, but I don't think that Marx dismissed it out of hand, but considered it to be politically unstable, like the populists who could be progressive or reactionary. In effect, the petit bourgoisie were part worker/part capitalism and so could go

[PEN-L:6936] (Fwd) The FINANCIAL TIMES - World's richest 6m get richer

1999-05-17 Thread ts99u-1.cc.umanitoba.ca [130.179.154.224]
--- Forwarded Message Follows --- Date sent: Mon, 17 May 1999 15:43:46 -0700 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] From: Sid Shniad [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject:The FINANCIAL TIMES - World's richest 6m get richer The FINANCIAL TIMES

[PEN-L:6932] Petit Cache

1999-05-17 Thread Tom Walker
Peter Dorman wrote: Seriously, the point is about the parallel attempts of sociobiology and at least some forms of marxism to connect the endpoints of material and intellectual life without working through all the mediations. (And even then, of course, the account of "material life" is highly

[PEN-L:6926] Kurds and Kosovars

1999-05-17 Thread J. Barkley Rosser, Jr.
Louis, You are correct that it is as "hard as shooting fish in a barrel" to figure out what is really going on with this situation in Yugoslavia. I confess to playing the "kick Milosevic" role because the others who might play it have all left pen-l. I understand from lbo-talk that Chris

[PEN-L:6925] Re: petit bourgeois

1999-05-17 Thread Peter Dorman
I don't want to get into a pissing match over this. Still, I don't think it adds anything to this particular critique to throw the PB lable at these people. Once you've spelled out the shortcomings -- unrealistic views about what can and can't be produced locally, the chronicly low wages and

[PEN-L:6922] RE: Old foggies/fogeys

1999-05-17 Thread Tom Walker
Looks can be deceiving. Perhaps the appearance of a "partisan debate" between "factions" has something to do with my deployment of texts rather than arguments. Much of what Doug Orr wrote recapitualates a brief commentary I posted on Saturday. Peter Dorman thought my Saturday comments were "not

[PEN-L:6917] petit-bourgeoisie

1999-05-17 Thread Craven, Jim
Personally, I think the category petit-bourgeoisie applies very well to large segments of academia worldwide: regarding "knowledge" as "capital" and proprietary (in the neoclassical sense) as an instrument of accumulation, fame, effective competition, productivity, market share etc; ideological

[PEN-L:6916] political economy sources

1999-05-17 Thread Paul Phillips
We (at the University of Manitoba) are in the process of developing a 3 and 4 year degree program in Global Political Economy. This is an interdisciplinary program involving Economics, Political Studies, Sociology, History and Anthropology. (There is also the possibility of this being

[PEN-L:6913] BLS Daily Report

1999-05-17 Thread Richardson_D
BLS DAILY REPORT, FRIDAY, MAY 14, 1999 RELEASED TODAY: CPI -- The CPI-U rose 0.7 percent in April on a seasonally adjusted basis. This was the largest monthly advance since an increase of the same magnitude in October 1990. About half of the CPI-U advance was attributable to a record

[PEN-L:6908] RE: Old foggies/fogeys

1999-05-17 Thread Tom Walker
Peter Dorman wrote: The violence I referred to in my remark is, of course, the 20th century bloodletting conducted in the name of Marx in order to purge "petit bourgeois" elements. Given that calling someone a petit bourgeois has been a sufficient basis for his or her repression and even

[PEN-L:6907] China should apologize to the US

1999-05-17 Thread Henry C.K. Liu
It is views like Safire's and Buckley's that justify Chinese anger. And such views are not in the minority in America at this moment. If the right wing thinks it's to America's interest to make China an enemy, they will success and may not live to regret it, along with the rest of us. Henry C.K.

[PEN-L:6904] Kurds and Kosovars

1999-05-17 Thread Louis Proyect
In Kosovo-Metohija in less than two months we have had now 800,000 people not merely displaced but exiled, and most of the rest of the ethnic Albanian population reportedly displaced. even if they have not been, the number exiled is now about 50% of the Albanian population against at

[PEN-L:6899] Re: Re: RE: Old foggies/fogeys

1999-05-17 Thread Doug Henwood
Peter Dorman wrote: The violence I referred to in my remark is, of course, the 20th century bloodletting conducted in the name of Marx in order to purge "petit bourgeois" elements. Given that calling someone a petit bourgeois has been a sufficient basis for his or her repression and even

[PEN-L:6898] Lord Skidelsky and the war

1999-05-17 Thread David Andrews
Presumably this is Lord Skidelsky the Keynes biographer? From the Electronic Telegraph: "Lord Skidelsky, a Conservative front bench spokesman, was sacked last night for publicly opposing Nato's action in Yugoslavia. The junior Treasury spokesman said in The Telegraph that he had been

[PEN-L:6895] Re: Re: Re: Re: military euro

1999-05-17 Thread S Pawlett
Doug Henwood wrote: Peter Dorman wrote: Bark, I've heard the figure "one million displacements" tossed around regarding Turkey and the Kurds. Can you or anyone else verify? And what does displacement mean in this context? Were they expelled through terror the way the ethnic Albanians