[PEN-L:10026] From Saturday, Aug. 14, '99 NY Times

1999-08-14 Thread Louis Proyect
1) Dagestan rebels seen by Russians as inspired by KLA http://www.nytimes.com/library/world/europe/081499russia-dagestan.html 2) Israeli history textbooks now acknowledge some realities of Zionist aggression http://www.nytimes.com/library/world/mideast/081499israel-teach.html 3) Venezuela's

[PEN-L:10028] Re: Re: Fwd: Re: RE: Value Theory and Abortion: [Was Free Speech and Opport

1999-08-14 Thread ann li
Without diving too deeply into this thread, and perhaps it has been mentioned before, but what interests me here is the problem of adumbration in using the term(s) anti-/pro- abortionist, as though there really were an abortion-ism, ideologically speaking. Is there really a fully articulated

[PEN-L:10030] Re: Free Speech and Opportunity Cost

1999-08-14 Thread Sam Pawlett
Jim Devine wrote: it's true that it's often difficult to draw the line between speech and action. But it's usually much easier between those who simply talk or write (like my brother the philosopher, who equates abortion with murder in his treatise on the ethics of homicide) Murder, by

[PEN-L:10032] China joblessness

1999-08-14 Thread Stephen E Philion
South China Morning Post - China Saturday, August 14, 1999 20,000 a month joining jobless VIVIEN

[PEN-L:10040] Re: Re: Abortion

1999-08-14 Thread Yoshie Furuhashi
Hi Ellen: The anti-abortion folks know very well that these limits will have little impact on the number of abortions performed. Another reason why there can't be negotiation is that the anti-abortion movement is not fundamentally concerned about the number or kind of abortion, so there is

[PEN-L:10042] Re: Re: Re: Value Theory and Abortion: [Was Free Speech and

1999-08-14 Thread Max B. Sawicky
whoops, guess not, notice how quickly Yoshie's concern with decline in abortion providers and query about how to reverse this trend was followed by posts about 'morality' and 'legitimacy' of abortion itself...sheeshMichael Hoover -- Sheesh yourself. Nobody used those words or

[PEN-L:10044] Re: Re: Abortion and communication

1999-08-14 Thread Michael Perelman
I am convinced! Good approach. Yoshie Furuhashi wrote: Michael: How would youu begin a dialogue with a woman who is otherwise progressive who sincerely believes that abortion is immoral? A woman who is *otherwise progressive* but against abortion should be especially willing to consider

[PEN-L:10041] Abortion and communication

1999-08-14 Thread michael
Yoshie and Ellen and others, How would youu begin a dialogue with a woman who is otherwise progressive who sincerely believes that abortion is immoral? One of the problems that we on the left fact is how to make our views understood with people who should be our natural allies. This taks is,

[PEN-L:10039] Re: Re: Value Theory and Abortion: [Was Free Speech and

1999-08-14 Thread Michael Hoover
attack on abortion is at core an attack on women, which is one of the reasons there can be no compromise on the issue. Carrol because of role it plays in structure of gender oppression - *case closed* whoops, guess not, notice how quickly Yoshie's concern with decline in abortion providers

[PEN-L:10038] Abortion Bargaining

1999-08-14 Thread Yoshie Furuhashi
Max: I've indicated some areas that could be 'negotiable.' If each and every one sets off an explosion, then clearly there can be no dialogue. To me dialogue means bargaining. You may not want to bargain principles, but you should be open to bargaining about lesser things, especially if they

[PEN-L:10037] Re: Re: Abortion

1999-08-14 Thread Carrol Cox
Max: I've indicated some areas that could be 'negotiable.' If each and every one sets off an explosion, then clearly there can be no dialogue. To me dialogue means bargaining. You may not want to bargain principles, but you should be open to bargaining about lesser things, especially if they

[PEN-L:10036] Re: Abortion

1999-08-14 Thread Ellen Frank
Max wrote: No it's not a bunch of guys. It's just me. Everyone else here is very PC. But at any rate, if this is how you read my post, then words have failed me (again). Me: Sorry Max. I didn't mean to over-react to your post, but at the time I felt a little like Alice in the Dilbert

[PEN-L:10035] Re: Re: Re: Campus Area Gentrification

1999-08-14 Thread Doug Henwood
Michael Perelman wrote: Does gentrification cause a decline in diversity? Don't we see that everywhere, including the pre-gentrified areas? I think that we have to look at the homogenization of our world in terms of the same companies selling the same stuff everywhere. Bourdieu has a nice

[PEN-L:10034] Re: Re: Campus Area Gentrification

1999-08-14 Thread Michael Perelman
Does gentrification cause a decline in diversity? Don't we see that everywhere, including the pre-gentrified areas? I think that we have to look at the homogenization of our world in terms of the same companies selling the same stuff everywhere. Sam Pawlett wrote: Wojtek Sokolowski wrote:

[PEN-L:10027] New Slavery

1999-08-14 Thread Rod Hay
new order of slaves More than 27 million people remain in violent economic bondage. DISPOSABLE PEOPLE: New Slavery in the Global Economy MARTIN LEVIN Saturday, August 14, 1999 By Kevin Bales University of California Press, 298 pages Think slavery's a relic of the past? Think again. Kevin

[PEN-L:10025] Re: Re: US Has been bombing Iraq all year

1999-08-14 Thread Frank Durgin
Yoshie: Regarding the ongoing bombing of Iraq you wrote: "Given the simultaneity of the attacks against Iraq and Yugoslavia, it is a shame that we couldn't generate a united opposition to both on the grassroots activist level. (Lots of people who protested agaisnt the Gulf War were

[PEN-L:10023] Re: Re: Value Theory

1999-08-14 Thread Ajit Sinha
Yoshie Furuhashi wrote: I dare say this has to be at least as interesting + important as value theory. _ I know "value theory" has become some kind of a 'whipping boy' for radicals--an euphemism for irrelevant nonsense. And as a matter of fact so much of nonsense has been