Max, I take your comments as misunderstanding me. I simply could not
see the relationship between "religion" and "socialism" in some
theoretical sense. This has nothing to do with rejecting
"democratic values" or bashing religious people in favor of democracy
(whatever it is). If I offended your
Title: Re: [PEN-L:17522] Re: Keeping Tabb
G'day Doyle,
You tax Max thus:
>>More schizophrenia here, I think.
>The phrase is anti-disabled. ÝYou know (I assume you are ignorant of the movement, the phrase "you know" is just a >writing tic) this country had a disability rights movement spring
Max wrote:
Tabb and others are troubled by the anti-communist overtones
of the China/WTO campaign and find it unpleasant to look at
the real state of labor and human rights in China. We seem
stuck in the old trap of apologizing for transgressions of
really-existing communism in
the belief or
Mine wrote:
It is sad that the US
left, whatever it means, still subscribes to the notion of compatibility
of religion and socialism. If Mr. jesus can save us from capitalism, let
him save us!
Steve writes:
The stuff of sectarianism. Who cares about someone's religious beliefs, I
care more
Steve writes:
The stuff of sectarianism. Who cares about someone's religious beliefs, I
care more about their politics.
then go and register to a biology course in Kansas!
Mine
MBS
More schizophrenia here, I think.
Doyle
The phrase is anti-disabled. . . . But I don't think you have the foggiest
notion what schizophrenia is. So when you want to characterize
non-schizophrenic persons this way, you want as usual to make the points,
Nice to hear from you again Doyle.
Mine wrote:
Max, I take your comments as misunderstanding me. I simply could not
see the relationship between "religion" and "socialism" in some
theoretical sense. . . .
Actually I wasn't attacking you, or meaning to.
It was my way of being friendly.
I was attacking Louis. Who is Louis?
Don't
EPI held a forum this week on work time
with speakers from Germany, the AFL, and
the French embassy (labor attache).
The main case study was of VW, which has
a relatively advanced system. Problem here
is that 'advanced' is not necessarily
congruent with progressive. Nor are
Maybe there is a relationship, maybe there isn't.
I'll leave that to others. I don't do metaphysics
or comparative religion. I do know that criticism
of religion per se as a political practice is an
exercise in self-sabotage for progressives in the U.S.
okey, i agree with this! you at least
can i ask a question?
Is "Socialist Register 1992" a collection of essays or a special volume of
socialist register magazine? I saw a reference in someone else's paper to
"Socialist Register 1992" edited by Miliband. there are articles by
Wallerstein and Cox. I can not figure out if this is a
Socialist Register is not exactly a magazine. It comes out once a year and
contains articles that are related thematically. For example, Socialist
Register 2000 is devoted to an examination of Utopia, which means how
socialism can recapture the visionary goals of Marx and Engels, not how to
start
At 08:43 PM 3/29/00 -0800, you wrote:
Jim, I didn't think that you were arguing with me, but I am not sure how
far I
would go along with your discussion of hegemon. We can look at the Great
Depression from three different angles: the monetary side that you and Tom
have
been discussing; the
At 11:51 PM 3/29/00 -0500, you wrote:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
labor-religion coalition? interfaith commitee? people of faith net work?
what are these to be exact? what have they got to with labor rights,
sweatshops and social justice issues?
I'm no fan of religion, and I'm guessing you're not
Trade deficits eliminate jobs. There are no two ways about it. In the
U.S. we've had manufacturing jobs replaced by lower paying service
jobs. Our employment is high at the moment, while wage growth has been
mediocre for most of the present recovery (the most recent years a bit better).
BLS DAILY REPORT, WEDNESDAY, MARCH 29, 2000
February marked the second consecutive month that all regions and all states
reported jobless rates less than 6 percent, BLS announces. ... (Daily Labor
Report, page D-1).
Unable to find enough workers in the booming economy, American corporations
Socialist Register is an annual, now edited by Leo Panitch. It has had various
co-editors, formerly Miliband was one of them. Lately they have been thematically
organized. I had an article on Soviet socialism in the 1991 Socialist Reg, which had a
title something like, In the Aftermath. I
In a message dated Thu, 30 Mar 2000 11:30:31 AM Eastern Standard Time, Doug Henwood
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Actually I'm a bit mystified by the notion that religious people have
no theoretical reasons for objecting to sweatshops. If you think God
made us all equal (I don't - I don't know
From: "Jim Devine" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
(and it would be truly
groovy if the CATHOLIC WORKER leader Dorothy Day became a saint, almost
making up for the on-going move to make Fr. Junipero Serra one)
Vatican to Weigh Sainthood For Reformer Dorothy Day
By Hanna Rosin
Washington Post Staff Writer
By mistake, I sent this off before it was finished. Here's a more finished
version.
Max wrote:
Trade deficits eliminate jobs. There are no two ways about it. In the
U.S. we've had manufacturing jobs replaced by lower paying service
jobs. Our employment is high at the moment, while wage
The subject line refers to the title of section 2 of chapter 13 of K. William Kapp's
_The Social Costs of Private Enterprise_, pages 186-192 in the 1971 edition. I was
reading Kapp as background for a response to a discussion paper on environmental tax
shifting, which was released by the
When asked about sainthood directly, [Dorothy Day] famously quipped:
"Don't trivialize me by trying to make me a saint."
and Lenin said he didn't want any statues of him built, since they attract
pigeons. No-one has any control over what happens after they die.
My point, BTW, was that it
Didn't de las Casas argue that since the indigenous people had souls and
could be saved, black slaves should be imported?
My point, BTW, was that it would be nice to have a few thousand saints to
counteract the dire influence of Junipero Serra. For example, Fr. Bartelemo
(sp?) de las
Doug wrote:
Actually I'm a bit mystified by the notion that religious people have
no theoretical reasons for objecting to sweatshops. If you think God made
us all equal (I don't - I don't know if there's a god, much less what s/he
intended), then exploitation is morally wrong and the
At 09:26 AM 3/30/00 -0800, you wrote:
Didn't de las Casas argue that since the indigenous people had souls and
could be saved, black slaves should be imported?
Probably, but I wasn't setting him up as a role model. After all, he was a
dogmatic Catholic, Euro-Centric (or Castille-centric), male
What do we import from E. Europe? Mail order brides (A Russian woman I know keeps us
informed about this trade; Haven't heard of one working out; Mostly jerks who can't
get a US woman to put up with them), caviar? I thought that the expansion of NATO
meant that we would get to sell lot's of good
Doug, I would agree with you -- except neither of us is inside the
tent -- and I think probably a majority of those inside the tent would
say the Good is Good because God says it is. Maritain bluntly states
that trying to show that God is Good leads to atheism. And in *The
Class Struggle in the
There is also the possibility that shorter work time (and negotiating for
shorter work time) could contribute to the survival of union densities and
welfare state policies thus making the net benefit more substantial than a
quick glance at direct employment and income benefits might imply.
On
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 03/30/00 11:46AM
This is a bad argument for a reason that Plato remarked on some time ago. The good (or
bad) is not good or bad because God so pronounces: if God existed and said, destroying
the lives of others for your personal profit and enjoyment is morally OK, we would
My apologies for sending on this information from a bourgeois source. But
for those offended, rest assured this kind of story you can find in
Chinese magazines, newspapers,...Steve
Subject: "All the work units have collapsed. . . . It's a dangerous
situation."
Washington Post
WTO
Yes, Mine, I could see you in Kansas trying to fight for your child's
right to not be subjected to creationist dogma. Daniel Berrigan walks up
to you and offers cooperation, your response?, "Sorry Dan, gotta give up
your religion before we work together to fight creationists"
Steve
Stephen
"Max B. Sawicky" wrote:
I do know that criticism
of religion per se as a political practice is an
exercise in self-sabotage for progressives in the U.S.
I'm not clear on what you mean by "per se" here, or
how narrowing your "as a political practice" is.
As I've already posted, I regard
Why has co-operative farming declined?
Ken Hanly
Coops were apparently encouraged to expand during last decade,
accumulating massive debts in process...
Re. organic farming (don't recall if Ken asked question, I accidentally
deleted post), about 1% of food grown for market in US is 'certified
"Max B. Sawicky" wrote:
I do know that criticism
of religion per se as a political practice is an
exercise in self-sabotage for progressives in the U.S.
I'm not clear on what you mean by "per se" here, or
how narrowing your "as a political practice" is.
[mbs] I mean raising to the level of
quoth Krugman, in yesterday's NY TIMES: For example, how do you feel about
the "living wage" movement, which in effect wants a large increase
in the minimum wage? That would certainly increase the incomes of the
lowest-paid workers; but it would also surely have at least some adverse
JD on Krugman re: the living wage . . .
it's interesting that he totally ignores the research that Bob Pollin and
others have done in answer to Krugman's previous criticism of living wages
along this line.
Doubly interesting because he wrote a very
friendly review of Pollin's book. Of
"Max B. Sawicky" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 03/30/00 12:10AM
There is no comparison between the inchoate Japan bashing
in the early 1980's and the present movement. Trade deficits
eliminate jobs. There are no two ways about it. In
the U.S. we've had manufacturing jobs replaced by
lower paying
Doyle Saylor wrote:
MBS
More schizophrenia here, I think.
Doyle
The phrase is anti-disabled.
Yes. I believe some other poster tried to confuse issues by
claiming that when originally coined the word was intended
to mean "split mind," but the claim is pointless. There is no
significant
Jim Devine [EMAIL PROTECTED] 03/30/00 03:06PM
quoth Krugman, in yesterday's NY TIMES: For example, how do you feel about
the "living wage" movement, which in effect wants a large increase
in the minimum wage? That would certainly increase the incomes of the
lowest-paid workers;
Jim Devine [EMAIL PROTECTED] 03/30/00 03:06PM
finally Is there any way out of the dilemma? Well, East Germany had full
employment without a rat race -- but it fell a bit short in the life and
liberty departments. I'd say that given the alternatives, the American
system, though not
CB: Several months ago, I had the impression that you and Brad D.were
arguing that capitalist investment in developing countries was raising their
GDP's, and that was sort of evidence for the success of capitalism in
raising the living standards of the world. Aren't the U.S. trade deficits a
Max wrote:
I mean raising to the level of doctrine Marx's critique of religion --
in effect, erecting a billboard that says to most people, your philosophy
of life stinks (and you stink).
I agree with Max on this one.
Old Karlos essentially writes that belief in region is a symptom of
At 03:55 PM 3/30/00 -0500, you wrote:
Jim Devine [EMAIL PROTECTED] 03/30/00 03:06PM
quoth Krugman, in yesterday's NY TIMES: For example, how do you feel about
the "living wage" movement, which in effect wants a large increase
in the minimum wage? That would certainly increase the
Boston Globe ]
Temp agencies find labor pool evaporating
By Michael Crowley, Globe Staff, 3/30/2000
[H.gif] ow tight is the labor market in Boston? Consider the latest
tactic of Franklin Pierce
Max Sawicky [EMAIL PROTECTED] 03/30/00 04:25PM
CB: Several months ago, I had the impression that you and Brad D.were
arguing that capitalist investment in developing countries was raising their
GDP's, and that was sort of evidence for the success of capitalism in
raising the living standards
At 09:23 30/03/00 -1000, you wrote:
My apologies for sending on this information from a bourgeois source. But
for those offended, rest assured this kind of story you can find in
Chinese magazines, newspapers,...Steve
Subject: "All the work units have collapsed. . . . It's a dangerous
At 16:25 28/03/00 -0800, you wrote:
RETHINKING MARXISM announces its fourth
International Gala Conference
MARXISM 2000
21-24 September (Thursday-Sunday) 2000
University of Massachusetts at Amherst
Can I ask within the strict etiquette that Michael imposes on this list,
and acknowledging that
Jim Devine [EMAIL PROTECTED] 03/30/00 04:40PM
At 03:55 PM 3/30/00 -0500, you wrote:
Jim Devine [EMAIL PROTECTED] 03/30/00 03:06PM
quoth Krugman, in yesterday's NY TIMES: For example, how do you feel about
the "living wage" movement, which in effect wants a large increase
in the
My apologies for sending on this information from a bourgeois source. But
for those offended, rest assured this kind of story you can find in
Chinese magazines, newspapers,...Steve
Subject: "All the work units have collapsed. . . . It's a dangerous
situation."
Washington Post
WTO
This is a perfect example of how the right to freedom of assembly is the
right of the "strongest" in capitalist democracies. The state protects the
fascists and racists, and strategically silences the others.
This racism issue is even more serious in the US, in the land of
democracy so called.
okey, i got it. somehow I thought it was a monthly magazine. thanx.
I have not met one in Vermont, btw...
Mine. A.D
Proyect wrote:
Socialist Register is not exactly a magazine. It comes out once a year
and
contains articles that are related thematically. For example, Socialist
Register 2000
it is indeed true that religious folks do a lot of "useful" things. the
last time I was in Turkey, they were subjecting girls to virginity tests
in local high schools in case there was a complaint from their parents
about the sexual dignity of their daughters..
in other times, they created a
okey, i got it. somehow I thought it was a monthly magazine. thanks for
the info
i have not met one in Vermont, btw...
Mine A. D
Proyect wrote:
Socialist Register is not exactly a magazine. It comes out once a year
and
contains articles that are related thematically. For example,
On Thu, 30 Mar 2000 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
are your catholic folks progressive enough when it comes to gender
issues? just crucious to know...
Mine
Steve: The answer to that is, obviously, yes. Many Catholic lefties are
pro-choice,...all one has to do is read their literature. They might
List,
I thank all the folks for their immediate responses to my inquiry.
Mine
At 10:42 AM 3/30/00 -0500, you wrote:
can i ask a question?
Is "Socialist Register 1992" a collection of essays or a special volume
of
socialist register magazine? I saw a reference in someone else's paper
to
What is this debate about?
Michael, the debate is as follows...
Still, religion has inspired great generosity and positive heroism in
others.
thanks god for his generosity!
then go and register to a biology course in Kansas!
Mine
evolution was dropped from the cirriculum of public
Spam., steve
On Thu, 30 Mar 2000 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
What is this debate about?
Michael, the debate is as follows...
Still, religion has inspired great generosity and positive heroism in
others.
thanks god for his generosity!
then go and register to a biology course in
There is another argument on the issue of comparative unemployment rates
to rebut Krugman. The U.S. and European countries calculate their rates
differently. We include involuntary part-time workers, while excluding
discouraged workers, the nearly 2 million in prison, and the military.
If you
In fact, profits don't have to go down. There is amble historical evidence that high
wage economies growth faster than low wage ones. In that case wages and profits can go
up at the same time. Your
statement is true only in a static economy.
Charles Brown wrote:
CB: This is
Rethinking Marxism has been firmly within the structuralist tradition. But the
line-up at this conference indicates that they are broadening their scope. Many of
the participants are from other traditions.
Chris Burford wrote:
At 16:25 28/03/00 -0800, you wrote:
RETHINKING MARXISM announces
Lou. What do you have against love, soybeans and singing.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Louis Proyect wrote:
Socialist Register is not exactly a magazine. It comes out once a year
and
contains articles that are related thematically. For example, Socialist
Register 2000 is devoted to an
I don't see the need to stereotype religious people. In my experience their
political believes and practice varies as much as those of non-believers. Yes
there are religious fascists, but there are atheists fascists as well.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
it is indeed true that religious folks do
I know about Kansas. It is time to stop this thread. Thanks.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
evolution was dropped from the cirriculum of public schools by the
State Board of Education in Kansas. i think it was last august or so...
--
Michael Perelman
Economics Department
California State
http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/nm/2330/zo/thirdparty_2.html
Thursday March 30 4:33 PM ET
UTICA, N.Y. (Reuters/Zogby) - While media attention has focused on the
potential impact of a Pat Buchanan (news - web sites) presidential on
George W. Bush (news - web sites)'s White House bid, a recent
NewsCenter | NewsWire
Share This Article With A
Friend
Headlines
Published on Thursday, March 30, 2000 in the
Washington Post
In a message dated 00-03-30 19:00:37 EST, you write:
I have not found info on the
the racial, ethnic and gender composition of people being sterilized. Do
you know what happened to those people? were they killed? Is anybody aware
of any opposition to it?
Dan Kevles has a book on the
continue to spam, steve. since you asked!
Mine
Spam., steve
Original Message
Subject: [BRC-ANN] The Right to Freedom of Assembly Under Attack
Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2000 15:39:00 -0500
From: Lorenzo Ervin [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
THE RIGHT TO FREEDOM OF ASSEMBLY UNDER ATTACK:
The Chilling Use of disruption laws to stifle
G'day Carrol,
Yes. I believe some other poster tried to confuse issues by
claiming that when originally coined the word was intended
to mean "split mind," but the claim is pointless. There is no
significant sense in which schizophrenia is characterized
by a "split mind," and the use of the term
Rod,
the issue is about neither religious fascism nor about atheist
fascism. where is that I am stereotyping for my sake? can you show
spefically, please? I condemened both in several other posts. in fact,
racial interpretations of bible *exactly* fits in socio-biological
arguments for the
I asked you to stop this thread off list. This is your last warning,
Mine.
--
Michael Perelman
Economics Department
California State University
Chico, CA 95929
Tel. 530-898-5321
E-Mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Thursday, March 30, 2000 at 09:36:30 (-0800) Jim Devine writes:
Non-religious folks have this kind of
emotional security due to upbringing, training, faith in the socialist
tradition, etc. Either way, there seems to be an "irrational" component, an
At 13:35 30/03/00 -1000, Stephen wrote:
Chris Burford
Now from an official Chinese source, translated by your's truly...on the
socialist content of TVE's:
From Workers' Daily, 11/26/98
In the Hunan Province village of Yiyang as long as Getihu entrepreneurs
put out under a hundred Yuan,
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