Re: [Pen-l] high value added labor

In corporate consulting-speak adding value means finding some compelling way to charge a client higher fees. I would tend to think of it as rent for being more nimble than the client. On Wed, Oct 29, 2008 at 11:30 AM, Sean Andrews [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm trying to work out a few aspects of

Re: [Pen-l] a dialogue

David B. Shemano wrote:Do the "Austrians" (why the scare quotes?) "ignore" Keynes or do they "disagree" with Keynes. It is hard for me to imagine any group that worked harder to understand and critique Keynes than the Austrians.Keynes’s analysis is based on ontological and anthropological

[Pen-l] Top Economic Strategist warns of ‘Catastrophe and Revolution’

http://www.marxist.com/top-economic-strategists-warns.htm Top Economic Strategist warns of ‘Catastrophe and Revolution’ By Rob Sewell Wednesday, 29 October 2008 top-economic-strategist-warns-thumb.jpg“At stake could be the legitimacy of the open market economy itself… the danger remains huge

Re: [Pen-l] Top Economic Strategist warns of ‘Catastrophe and Revolution’

On Oct 30, 2008, at 10:38 AM, Louis Proyect quoted: Martin Wolf I've interviewed him several times, most recently on October 16: http://www.leftbusinessobserver.com/Radio.html#081016. Doug ___ pen-l mailing list pen-l@lists.csuchico.edu

Re: [Pen-l] Top Economic Strategist warns of ‘Catastrophe and Revolution’

Greetings Economists, On Oct 30, 2008, at 7:38 AM, Louis Proyect wrote: top-economic-strategist-warns-thumb.jpg“At stake could be the legitimacy of the open market economy itself… the danger remains huge and time is short,” writes Martin Wolf. Doyle; It would be nice to better understand

[Pen-l] Neo-classical crises

On my ever-lengthening to-do list is investigating the mainstream's counterpart to marxian crisis theory. Seems to me it is reduced to a currency crisis or bubble and, in contrast to the claims of high theory, tends to the anecdotal and episodic -- maybe historical -- rather than seen as a basic

Re: [Pen-l] Neo-classical crises

Max Sawicky wrote: The author is John Quiggin of Oz, an outstanding social-dem economist and blog-acquaintance of mine. From http://louisproyect.wordpress.com/2006/08/19/rotten-timber/ Since Serb-bashing is fairly well entrenched at Crooked Timber, I was surprised to discover that one of

Re: [Pen-l] Neo-classical crises

Greetings Economists, Ha ha Troll indeed. This response by Quiggin is a good example of how little these sorts of tools do to really utilize the media for more democratic purposes. A good reason to admire Michael Perelman's efforts on Pen-L. thanks, Doyle Saylor On Oct 30, 2008, at 8:26

[Pen-l] Re: Neo-classical crises

Max Sawicky wrote: On my ever-lengthening to-do list is investigating the mainstream's counterpart to marxian crisis theory. Seems to me it is reduced to a currency crisis or bubble and, in contrast to the claims of high theory, tends to the anecdotal and episodic -- maybe historical --

Re: [Pen-l] Neo-classical crises

Max Sawicky wrote: On my ever-lengthening to-do list is investigating the mainstream's counterpart to marxian crisis theory. Seems to me it is reduced to a currency crisis or bubble and, in contrast to the claims of high theory, tends to the anecdotal and episodic -- maybe historical --

Re: [Pen-l] Neo-classical crises

Greetings Economists, Given the global nature of the crisis I would guesstimate Social Democracy is as likely to be discredited as Neoliberalism. I.e. some states will attempt international means of attacking the problem undermining the SD nationalist techniques. I find Henry Liu's work

[Pen-l] The fundamental crisis response. was Ecological credit crunch

I understand what liberal economists won't talk seriously about slowing or stopping growth in the US economy. But why won't PEN-L touch it? Conservatives believe growth is good, the WD-40 for all problems. Liberals won't advocate stopping growth as the crisis response because it is

[Pen-l] Pollin?

http://www.thenation.com/doc/20081117/pollin We're All Minskyites Now Comment By Robert Pollin I thought that Pollin was a Marxist. ___ pen-l mailing list pen-l@lists.csuchico.edu https://lists.csuchico.edu/mailman/listinfo/pen-l

Re: [Pen-l] Pollin?

On Oct 30, 2008, at 2:40 PM, Louis Proyect wrote: http://www.thenation.com/doc/20081117/pollin We're All Minskyites Now Comment By Robert Pollin I thought that Pollin was a Marxist. They're not mutually exclusive really. But Bob wrote a UMass working paper many years ago in which he

Re: [Pen-l] Pollin?

On Oct 30, 2008, at 2:49 PM, Doug Henwood wrote: http://www.thenation.com/doc/20081117/pollin We're All Minskyites Now By the way, Minsky's parents met at a dance celebrating Marx's birthday. I have to comment on the amusing aspect of the alternate universe that I bring to my PEN-L

Re: [Pen-l] The fundamental crisis response. was Ecological credit crunch

On Thu, Oct 30, 2008 at 11:14 AM, Eugene Coyle [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Robert Frank, from Cornell, wrote a popular book that sold well, Luxury Fever. In it he deplored rampant consumerism and also attacked the exisitng income distribution. He ended lamely by suggesting higher taxes on the

FW: [Pen-l] a dialogue

Carrol -- I do not think you should dismiss Social Credit so easily. As I understand it, Social Credit does not require totalitarianism. It is true that Pound also advocated fascism, but that was because he believed the mass of citizens unfit for a Jeffersonian democracy. Social Credit would

Re: Re: [Pen-l] a dialogue

me: they're not scare quotes. I just don't think they [the Austrian school] should identify their country of origin with their school. It's not like they have had a monopoly of intellectual power over Austria the way the followers of Milton Friedman have at the University of Chicago. For

Re: FW: [Pen-l] a dialogue

Peter Hollings wrote: I do not think you should dismiss Social Credit so easily. As I understand it, Social Credit does not require totalitarianism. It is true that Pound also advocated fascism, but that was because he believed the mass of citizens unfit for a Jeffersonian democracy. Social

Re: [Pen-l] Pollin?

Louis Proyect wrote: I thought that Pollin was a Marxist. Doug writes: They're not mutually exclusive really. But Bob wrote a UMass working paper many years ago in which he (mildly) took Minsky to task for saying that the problem with capitalism is instability, not exploitation. Guess he's

Re: [Pen-l] a dialogue

On Oct 30, 2008, at 4:12 PM, Jim Devine wrote: I don't want to insult Austria. I'm told it's a pleasant country. Austria's greatest national achievement was persuading the world that Beethoven was an Austrian and that Hitler was a German. falsche welsche Majestät--Hans Sachs's prophesy

Re: [Pen-l] The fundamental crisis response. was Ecological credit crunch

I'll take a swing at it, after stipulating that I am down with the shorter work week agenda. At least, I think I am. We might want to ratchet down the level of hours per working age person, but ongoing growth in productivity (where output includes non-market amenities and accounts properly for

RE: [Pen-l] The fundamental crisis response. was Ecological credit crunch

Apropos this dialogue, there is an interesting paper Herman Daly: Towards A Steady-State Economy at http://www.theoildrum.com/node/3941 http://www.theoildrum.com/node/3941. Peter Hollings Max Sawicky: Thursday, October 30, 2008 4:40 PM I'll take a swing at it, after stipulating that I

Re: [Pen-l] a dialogue

On Oct 30, 2008, at 4:12 PM, Jim Devine wrote: I don't want to insult Austria. I'm told it's a pleasant country. Indeed it is, except in the rare instance that your tram driver yells Sieg Heil at you(*)! But I agree with Shemano... the logical positivists are often called the Vienna

RE: Re: Re: [Pen-l] a dialogue

Jim Devine writes: They don't get the point. Say's law was debunked long before Keynes. People should understand that. To not understand that is a sign of ignorance. I remain baffled why you think Austrians didn't get Keynes, when it is obvious, at least to me, that they (and other Keynesian

Re: Re: Re: [Pen-l] a dialogue

David B. Shemano wrote: I remain baffled why you think Austrians didn't get Keynes, when it is obvious, at least to me, that they ... did get him and thought he was wrong for a variety of reasons. note that I am not against criticisms of Keynes. But that does not mean clinging to Say's Law

[Pen-l] Let's put IOUSA in context

While there are certainly many grounds to be concerned about the country’s economic condition, the view presented in the deficit-alarmist movie, IOUSA, is one-sided and misleading. CEPR issued its analysis of IOUSA (www.cepr.net/index.php/publications/reports/iousa-not-ok), featuring a

Re: [Pen-l] Pollin?

ravi wrote: (*) because of course mathematics trumps economics. ;-) That's because mathematics is not, on the whole, a criminal conspiracy against the common good! Carrol ___ pen-l mailing list pen-l@lists.csuchico.edu

Re: [Pen-l] The fundamental crisis response. was Ecological creditcrunch

raghu wrote: Exactly, why won't PEN-L? From last week's thread on Volcker's standards of living have to decline, I get the impression that there is little sympathy on PEN-L for the no growth idea. Volcker wanted standards of living to decline in order to get MORE growth. He had no

RE: [Pen-l] The fundamental crisis response. was Ecologicalcreditcrunch

I am with Max. We want better, not more growth. Better growth need not conflict with environmental sanity. Michael Perelman ___ pen-l mailing list pen-l@lists.csuchico.edu https://lists.csuchico.edu/mailman/listinfo/pen-l

Re: [Pen-l] The fundamental crisis response. was Ecological creditcrunch

On Thu, Oct 30, 2008 at 5:28 PM, Carrol Cox [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Volcker wanted standards of living to decline in order to get MORE growth. He had no intention at all of slowing or stopping growth. That's why your posts on him got such a negative response. That seems a bit contradictory -

Re: [Pen-l] The fundamental crisis response. was Ecological credit crunch

On Thu, Oct 30, 2008 at 1:39 PM, Max Sawicky [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: We might want to ratchet down the level of hours per working age person, but ongoing growth in productivity (where output includes non-market amenities and accounts properly for environmental costs) is hard to reject. It

Re: [Pen-l] Pollin?

Louis Proyect wrote: I thought that Pollin was a Marxist. Doug Henwood wrote: They're not mutually exclusive really. But Bob wrote a UMass working paper many years ago in which he (mildly) took Minsky to task for saying that the problem with capitalism is instability, not exploitation.

Re: [Pen-l] The fundamental crisis response. was Ecological credit crunch

raghu wrote: To be clear, when I say growth I always mean GDP growth. why not simply say GDP growth then? -- Jim Devine / Nobody told me there'd be days like these / Strange days indeed -- most peculiar, mama. -- JL. ___ pen-l mailing list

Re: [Pen-l] The fundamental crisis response. was Ecological creditcrunch

Carrol Cox wrote: Volcker wanted standards of living to decline in order to get MORE growth. He had no intention at all of slowing or stopping growth. ... raghu: That seems a bit contradictory - how can you get more growth by putting everyone on an austerity program? I don't think Carrol

Re: [Pen-l] The fundamental crisis response. was Ecological credit crunch

On Thu, Oct 30, 2008 at 7:01 PM, Jim Devine [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: raghu wrote: To be clear, when I say growth I always mean GDP growth. why not simply say GDP growth then? I could, but thats not the point. Why not stick with the usage of growth that is implicit in the general discourse

Re: [Pen-l] The fundamental crisis response. was Ecological creditcrunch

No austerity program! If we cut working time -- going to a four day week of 8 hour days, for example -- WITH NO CUT IN PAY -- that is not austerity. People's pay remains the same, they are actually financially better off because of a significant drop in expenses. I can elaborate on

Re: [Pen-l] The fundamental crisis response. was Ecological credit crunch

Max, I don't reject ongoing productivity gains. They are part of why we must, and why we can, work less. And cutting working time WITH NO CUT IN PAY can only benefit the poor and the working class. Growth in GDP has a long record of not benefitting the poor. -- Why does the belief