Re: [PEN-L] Gindin, Brenner and capitalist catastrophe

2007-12-22 Thread Patrick Bond
Julio Huato wrote: This may be totally off target, but it seems to me that -- contingent on time, place, area of the economy -- capital is alternatively over-accumulated and under-accumulated with respect to profitability. If you mean systematic uneven development, true. But the broad

Re: [PEN-L] Gindin, Brenner and capitalist catastrophe

2007-12-22 Thread Doug Henwood
On Dec 22, 2007, at 3:54 AM, Patrick Bond wrote: Doug Henwood wrote: I've just about finished reading an essay by Russell Jacoby in an early-1970s Telos on the crisis tradition in Marxism. Jacoby traces the origins of the school to the Russian populists, who argued that capitalism could never

Re: [PEN-L] Gindin, Brenner and capitalist catastrophe

2007-12-22 Thread Patrick Bond
Doug Henwood wrote: According to Jacoby, whose staying power hasn't been so great... so maybe take some time this holiday to read these folk, seeing as how a serious financial crisis is bubbling over. Their work's online for the most part. ... Of course, the crises of the 1930s led to fascism

[PEN-L] Lakota Declare independence from U.S.

2007-12-22 Thread Brian McKenna
Lakota Sioux Indian representatives declared sovereign nation status Wednesday in Washington D.C. following Monday’s withdrawal from all previously signed treaties with the United States Government See: http://www.lakotafreedom.com/ This historic move occurs within three months of the

[PEN-L] Norman Reynolds, 1941-2007

2007-12-22 Thread Patrick Bond
A tribute to a rare humanist economist Patrick Bond, University of KwaZulu-Natal Centre for Civil Society 20 December 2007 I can offer some partial, highly biased, professional (sort of) and heart-felt reflections on the work of Norman Reynolds, who died last week in a site I'm sure he was

Re: [PEN-L] Gindin, Brenner and capitalist catastrophe

2007-12-22 Thread Doyle Saylor
Greetings Economists, On Dec 22, 2007, at 6:36 AM, Doug Henwood wrote: Of course, the crises of the 1930s led to fascism and the New Deal, not revolution, so the empirical record isn't impressive. Doyle; Russia and China during this period were in the throws of revolution. This comment is a

Re: [PEN-L] Gindin, Brenner and capitalist catastrophe

2007-12-22 Thread Patrick Bond
Doyle Saylor wrote: South Africa, and so on happened in a non Depression period. Technically that's not so; SA witnessed declining per capita growth from 1989-93; the transition was in 1994 and thanks to myriad forms of deregulation, corporate profits were soon restored. That's of course why

Re: [PEN-L] Gindin, Brenner and capitalist catastrophe

2007-12-22 Thread Doyle Saylor
Greetings Economists, On Dec 22, 2007, at 7:59 AM, Patrick Bond wrote: Technically that's not so; SA witnessed declining per capita growth from 1989-93; the transition was in 1994 and thanks to myriad forms of deregulation, corporate profits were soon restored. That's of course why big capital

Re: [PEN-L] Gindin, Brenner and capitalist catastrophe

2007-12-22 Thread Ted Winslow
Doug Henwood wrote: I gotta say, as much as I admire Harvey, I find accumulation by dispossession to be a grand-sounding but fairly empty concept. When has capitalism not stolen things - resources, land, urban neighborhoods, communal property, you name it? It's just standard operating

[PEN-L] rising military OCC? [was: Gindin, Brenner and capitalist catastrophe]

2007-12-22 Thread Jim Devine
Patrick Bond wrote: Perhaps the most serious of capitalist self-contradictions, most thoroughly embedded within the capital accumulation process, is the general tendency towards an increased capital-labour ratio in production--more machines in relation to workers--which is fuelled by the

Re: [PEN-L] Lakota Declare independence from U.S.

2007-12-22 Thread Jim Devine
how is the US government going to respond? On Dec 22, 2007 7:33 AM, Brian McKenna [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Lakota Sioux Indian representatives declared sovereign nation status Wednesday in Washington D.C. following Monday's withdrawal from all previously signed treaties with the United States

Re: [PEN-L] Gindin, Brenner and capitalist catastrophe

2007-12-22 Thread Patrick Bond
I think this is your central point, right, Ted? Ted Winslow wrote: The methods of accumulation characteristic of capitalism in its infancy - the methods of primitive accumulation - are internally related to the particular form of capitalist subjectivity then dominant. They can't recur in that

[PEN-L] Mercenaries and the OCC

2007-12-22 Thread Michael Perelman
Blackwater lowers the OCC [in a strictly monetary sense], not necessarily because the company has less dependence on technology. Its assignments are not in the highly technological work of running predator drones. Instead, it charges $700 per day or some such outlandish figure] for its

Re: [PEN-L] Gindin, Brenner and capitalist catastrophe

2007-12-22 Thread Doug Henwood
On Dec 22, 2007, at 10:21 AM, Patrick Bond wrote: Doug Henwood wrote: According to Jacoby, whose staying power hasn't been so great... Dunno what you mean by this. His book on the American banalization of psychoanalysis, which I read long ago, was great, and this essay is pretty fine stuff

Re: [PEN-L] Gindin, Brenner and capitalist catastrophe

2007-12-22 Thread Michael Perelman
What I recall from the Jacoby article was the idea that the German Social Democrats argued that they need not engage in revolutionary activities because the economy would do their work for them. They should retain their respectability so that when the crisis comes, the people will turn to them.

[PEN-L] Subject: Re: closing the barn-door after the horse has escaped.

2007-12-22 Thread Seth Sandronsky
Speaking of the Three Strikes law: http://www.counterpunch.org/sandronsky1007.html Seth Sandronsky Date:Fri, 21 Dec 2007 10:49:15 -0800 From:Jim Devine [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: closing the barn-door after the horse has escaped. Charles Brown wrote: The cleanest

Re: [PEN-L] Gindin, Brenner and capitalist catastrophe

2007-12-22 Thread Jim Devine
Doug Henwood wrote: Sam Gindin said two striking things in that Brecht Forum debate with Brenner: 1) the crisis isn't in capitalism, it's in the left; 2) if you'd told him in 1975 that the U.S. working class would take 30 years of falling real wages, union busting, benefit cuts, and rising

Re: [PEN-L] Gindin, Brenner and capitalist catastrophe

2007-12-22 Thread Louis Proyect
Doug Henwood wrote: And what about financial crisis? Lehman Bros. did a count recently and came up with 30 of them since 1900, or one every three years. Off the top of my head, I remember these since the early 1970s: * Franklin National * Russia/LTCM Case studies 2 and 3 in my wife's

[PEN-L] A note on overaccumulation

2007-12-22 Thread Michael Perelman
I am sorry I do not have time for a more detailed response to this interesting thread. One of the themes I have been playing with in my writings is the idea that industries with high fixed costs and low marginal costs are prime candidates for bankruptcy without some constraint on competition.

Re: [PEN-L] Gindin, Brenner and capitalist catastrophe

2007-12-22 Thread Doug Henwood
On Dec 22, 2007, at 1:16 PM, Jim Devine wrote: Even though it wasn't really Marx's phrase, the primitive in primitive accumulation comes not from technology (railroads, etc.) but from relations of production: it refers to extra-market coercion used to start the capitalist ball rolling. The

Re: [PEN-L] Gindin, Brenner and capitalist catastrophe

2007-12-22 Thread Patrick Bond
Michael Perelman wrote: What I recall from the Jacoby article was the idea that the German Social Democrats argued that they need not engage in revolutionary activities because the economy would do their work for them. Hilferding said, in 1910: If you take over the six Berlin banks you'll

Re: [PEN-L] Gindin, Brenner and capitalist catastrophe

2007-12-22 Thread Doug Henwood
On Dec 22, 2007, at 1:27 PM, Louis Proyect wrote: Doug Henwood wrote: And what about financial crisis? Lehman Bros. did a count recently and came up with 30 of them since 1900, or one every three years. Off the top of my head, I remember these since the early 1970s: * Franklin National *

Re: [PEN-L] A note on overaccumulation

2007-12-22 Thread Patrick Bond
Michael Perelman wrote: I am sorry I do not have time for a more detailed response to this interesting thread. One of the themes I have been playing with in my writings is the idea that industries with high fixed costs and low marginal costs are prime candidates for bankruptcy without some

Re: [PEN-L] Gindin, Brenner and capitalist catastrophe

2007-12-22 Thread Doug Henwood
On Dec 22, 2007, at 1:31 PM, Patrick Bond wrote: Michael Perelman wrote: What I recall from the Jacoby article was the idea that the German Social Democrats argued that they need not engage in revolutionary activities because the economy would do their work for them. Hilferding said, in

Re: [PEN-L] Gindin, Brenner and capitalist catastrophe

2007-12-22 Thread Carrol Cox
Jim Devine wrote: Doug Henwood wrote: Sam Gindin said two striking things in that Brecht Forum debate with Brenner: 1) the crisis isn't in capitalism, it's in the left; 2) if you'd told him in 1975 that the U.S. working class would take 30 years of falling real wages, union busting,

Re: [PEN-L] Gindin, Brenner and capitalist catastrophe

2007-12-22 Thread Jim Devine
me: Even though it wasn't really Marx's phrase, the primitive in primitive accumulation comes not from technology (railroads, etc.) but from relations of production: it refers to extra-market coercion used to start the capitalist ball rolling. The building of railroads in the US involved

Re: [PEN-L] Gindin, Brenner and capitalist catastrophe

2007-12-22 Thread Doug Henwood
On Dec 22, 2007, at 1:59 PM, Carrol Cox wrote: Gindin is playing what I call sandbox politics: the political theorist who pushes around imaginary forces in the little sandbox playground of his mind. Hmm, all those years he's spent involved with Canadian unions and worker education - nothing

Re: [PEN-L] Gindin, Brenner and capitalist catastrophe

2007-12-22 Thread Jim Devine
Patrick Bond wrote: In my view, the proper conception of 'crisis' is Robert Cox's, when the internal logic of a system is inadequate to get the stabilising and equilibrating forces back into play, and an external shock outside the logic of the system (i.e. devalorisation in the case of

Re: [PEN-L] Gindin, Brenner and capitalist catastrophe

2007-12-22 Thread Patrick Bond
Doug Henwood wrote: I find this argument completely opaque. I'm not pooh-poohing anything. What I'm saying, and probably for the 40th time to you, is that while the possibility of crisis Well if you take the Coxian position, which you don't want to do (see below), we're in a crisis. ... If

[PEN-L] new radio product

2007-12-22 Thread Doug Henwood
BEHIND THE NEWS with Doug Henwood podcast: http://shout.lbo-talk.org/lbo/radio-feed.php iTunes: http://phobos.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/ viewPodcast?id=73801817 or http://tinyurl.com/3bsaqb Best Music on an Economics Politics Radio Show Village Voice Best of NYC 2005 Newly posted

[PEN-L] Merry Merry!

2007-12-22 Thread Jim Devine
I know that it's politically correct (in the liberal sense of that phrase) to say Happy Holidays or similar during this period. But this year and last, I've said Merry Christmas. Last year, it was because of the FOX pundit Bill O'Reilly-led defense against the so-called War on Christmas. In case

Re: [PEN-L] Gindin, Brenner and capitalist catastrophe

2007-12-22 Thread Doyle Saylor
Greetings Economists, On Dec 22, 2007, at 10:56 AM, Doug Henwood wrote: f you say the biggest problem with capitalism is that it's always about to off the rails, then the implication is that you want to preserve the status quo. Doyle; I think you won the catastrophist argument long ago. The

Re: [PEN-L] Gindin, Brenner and capitalist catastrophe

2007-12-22 Thread Gar Lipow
On Dec 19, 2007 7:38 PM, Max B. Sawicky [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Somebody's got to fill my shoes. By the way, you're up to 400 (different) visitors a day. We need a couple more authors, however. There still needs to be more posts per day. Anybody interested, drop me a note. You too could

Re: [PEN-L] Gindin, Brenner and capitalist catastrophe

2007-12-22 Thread Michael Perelman
Capitalism was not establish on a particular date. Some people see capitalism in ancient Sumeria and the like since there were markets at the time. Similarly, capitalist crises do not suddenly show up one day. The system has many contradictions. Sometimes they accumulate enough to reach a

[PEN-L] 'True Costing' the subprime mortgage crisis

2007-12-22 Thread Leigh Meyers
Tipped by Stan Goff, Feral Scholar http://www.feralscholar.org/ Other costs to American society begin to appear: Tent city in suburbs is cost of home crisis By Dana FordFri Dec 21, 8:18 AM ET Between railroad tracks and beneath the roar of departing planes sits tent city, a terminus for

Re: [PEN-L] 'True Costing' the subprime mortgage crisis

2007-12-22 Thread Michael Smith
On Saturday 22 December 2007 20:18:39 Leigh Meyers quoted: Steve, 50, who declined to give his last name, moved to tent city four months ago. He gets social security payments, but cannot work and said rents are too high. House prices are going down, but the rentals are sky-high, said Steve.

Re: [PEN-L] Gindin, Brenner and capitalist catastrophe

2007-12-22 Thread Jim Devine
Michael Perelman wrote: Capitalism was not establish on a particular date. Some people see capitalism in ancient Sumeria and the like since there were markets at the time. C-C or C-M-C may have existed in ancient Sumeria, but not M-C-M' with labor-power as a commodity. The latter defines

Re: [PEN-L] Gindin, Brenner and capitalist catastrophe

2007-12-22 Thread Michael Perelman
Right, but some people still argue that capitalism has an ancient legacy. On Sat, Dec 22, 2007 at 06:09:26PM -0800, Jim Devine wrote: Michael Perelman wrote: Capitalism was not establish on a particular date. Some people see capitalism in ancient Sumeria and the like since there were

Re: [PEN-L] Gindin, Brenner and capitalist catastrophe

2007-12-22 Thread Marvin Gandall
Patrick wrote: No comrade, the crisis is unfolding now, right now, and your fairy tale of intrinsic US financial power (shared by Sam and Leo) is taking a twist you comrades didn't expect. Has the current crisis really caught those on the left - and beyond

Re: [PEN-L] Gindin, Brenner and capitalist catastrophe

2007-12-22 Thread Jim Devine
yes, an ancient legacy called class exploitation, which preceded capitalism by a few millennia... On 12/22/07, Michael Perelman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Right, but some people still argue that capitalism has an ancient legacy. On Sat, Dec 22, 2007 at 06:09:26PM -0800, Jim Devine wrote:

Re: [PEN-L] Gindin, Brenner and capitalist catastrophe

2007-12-22 Thread Patrick Bond
Marvin Gandall wrote: Has the current crisis really caught those on the left - and beyond - by surprise? There has been much talk for the past several years about the housing bubble and the danger posed to the global financial system by the vast new array of arcane and untested derivative

Re: [PEN-L] 'True Costing' the subprime mortgage crisis

2007-12-22 Thread Leigh Meyers
Personally, I LIKE tent camping on the long-term but I wouldn't wish it on someone old enough or disabled enough to be collecting social security. The situation has the lower middle class and working class competing with the working poor, who are being 'relocated' to points unknownm nor

Re: [PEN-L] Gindin, Brenner and capitalist catastrophe

2007-12-22 Thread Julio Huato
Patrick, I just read your article on the Global Crisis. I'm not really sure I get your point about over-accumulation. First, it's not clear to me whether over-accumulation is, in your view, (1) a chronic, systemic condition of capitalism, (2) a tendency in a given stage in the history of

[PEN-L] More Housing Woes Ahead? Part 1

2007-12-22 Thread Michael Perelman
The Wall Street Journal reports on the spread of homes with negative equity. As of a year ago, estimates were that 7% of more than their homes were worth, but housing prices have fallen nearly 5% since then and are predicted to fall further. Hagerty, James R. 2007. Price Indexes Will Map Out

[PEN-L] More Housing Woes Ahead? Part 2

2007-12-22 Thread Michael Perelman
In a recent Ohio case. the judge dismissed a number of foreclosure requests because the plaintiffs could not show that they were the legal owners of the properties. This ruling seemed like it was a minor technicality is going to the complicated nature of the securitized mortgages. BusinessWeek